Church Planting In Africa - Daniel Williams and Zeddie Muzungu

[00:00:00] Welcome to the Cultivate Church Planting Podcasts, back with another episode and we are recording from the Calvary Chapel Passers Conference in the sea. A lot of my good buddies including Daniel Williams who's back with us.

[00:00:13] Back! He's back baby.

[00:00:15] I'm excited to be here. I've really, I've really been blessed by your podcast learning a lot.

[00:00:19] Continuing, I've been through in church planning and training others at church planning. It's a beautiful resource. I love it.

[00:00:26] And I've got Zeddie Muzungu here and Zeddie's back. He was already on a podcast before we got to Dupentine.

[00:00:31] Yeah, we did one last year.

[00:00:33] He did one last year and the people demand more.

[00:00:36] They want to know what is how they wouldn't know what's going on on the continent of Africa.

[00:00:41] They want to know what's going on. I want to know what's going on in Uganda.

[00:00:45] You know, that's one of the things Daniel that a lot of people think Africa is a country.

[00:00:50] Yep.

[00:00:51] But it's a wild.

[00:00:52] It's not.

[00:00:54] It's a really big country.

[00:00:59] East Africa is a great place to live, to visit my wife and I and our family lived there for 10 years. We planted the church.

[00:01:12] It's probably the best part of the continent.

[00:01:14] You think?

[00:01:15] Yeah.

[00:01:16] Okay.

[00:01:17] Yeah.

[00:01:18] It's probably the best part of the continent.

[00:01:19] It was called the Pearl of Africa.

[00:01:22] Wow.

[00:01:23] But I served Winston Churchill.

[00:01:25] Yep.

[00:01:26] Yeah.

[00:01:27] This is great. I'm so glad that I'm on this podcast right now interviewing you because I really know nothing about what God is doing.

[00:01:32] So I should know one of you.

[00:01:34] I shouldn't be interviewing you, right?

[00:01:35] I mean, that's easy to know.

[00:01:37] I know nothing.

[00:01:38] Yeah.

[00:01:39] All right.

[00:01:40] It works.

[00:01:41] You're right.

[00:01:42] But anyway, we are here and we are going to record an episode about Uganda East Africa.

[00:01:48] Yeah.

[00:01:49] And what a lot of people don't realize is, you know, especially else from the United States because that you're here visiting you at the conference. We're in Southern California right now.

[00:01:56] And a lot of Americans, you know, it's not really our fault a lot of the time but our perspective on life, on ministry, on church planting, on mission.

[00:02:07] It's all very localized to the United States.

[00:02:11] It's a big country too. You know, it's like it's all in continent and away with 50 little countries in it.

[00:02:18] That's all states.

[00:02:21] I lived out of the country for a while.

[00:02:24] Yeah, my wife's Canadian.

[00:02:26] So that's another whole thing.

[00:02:28] Anyway, we're going to eliminate perspective on what God is doing because we tend to, and I don't know if it's our fault or not, we tend to get...

[00:02:40] What's the call when you can see, not short side of it.

[00:02:43] Nearsighted?

[00:02:44] Nearsighted.

[00:02:45] We tend to be nearsighted and only see what's going on in the United States.

[00:02:48] And most of our listeners are going to be from the United States.

[00:02:51] They're going to be planting probably in the United States.

[00:02:53] We do have a few in Europe and a few in South America.

[00:02:59] But it's hard for us to consider our perspective that includes the rest of the world.

[00:03:05] So I love having guys like you on Zetti and others that we've had on the show because it opens up and it broadens our perspective of what is God doing in the rest of the world.

[00:03:15] In surprise, Americans.

[00:03:17] God is actually working many times more in other countries than he is in the United States.

[00:03:21] Yeah, I'm excited to hear about what God is doing now in your ministry.

[00:03:26] Trust planning? How has Jesus work in in the country you live?

[00:03:30] Yeah, you can't. One of the things about the Uganda is that it is probably the most friendly.

[00:03:39] I think it's either Taiwan or Uganda and we have the most friendly people.

[00:03:45] So people are easy to engage.

[00:03:48] People are easy to talk to.

[00:03:50] People are receptive. We are very hospitable and people are receptive to the gospel too.

[00:03:56] If you go on any average day to talk to anybody about the Lord on this street, they will listen.

[00:04:03] Wow.

[00:04:04] Yeah. Because people are so friendly and the culture is being kind.

[00:04:08] Very welcoming.

[00:04:09] How does that play out with church planning with ministry?

[00:04:12] And even like a church service? Is your meeting greet just for hours?

[00:04:16] I mean what is that look like?

[00:04:18] The average meeting I'm greet in a Uganda and village is ours.

[00:04:24] You know, branded for a while and you kind of ask somebody how they are and how the chickens are and how they dogs are and how they cause it.

[00:04:33] And how the grandkids are.

[00:04:35] It can go on and on.

[00:04:37] So that is the one thing that has made Uganda a good ground for church planning.

[00:04:43] People.

[00:04:44] Now what is your story with church planning being friendly in the culture and planning a church there?

[00:04:49] What part of Uganda are you in and how does God work?

[00:04:52] I've grown up in the city for the most part of my life.

[00:04:55] And we moved into the city of Campa, which is the capital when I was eight.

[00:05:01] And when I'm with my daughter, Catholic church and I stop growing, I think when I was a teenager,

[00:05:08] 14 didn't make an essence to make Catholicism didn't make an essence to me.

[00:05:11] So, and then I came to know the Lord in uni.

[00:05:16] I was 23 at the time and God saved after watching an end time movie.

[00:05:22] And my friend invited me to a church and just about the time is when Catholic church was planted.

[00:05:28] And a couple of mornings I was listening to Christian radio because my friend told me it's a Christian thing to do if you get saved.

[00:05:35] So, and guess what was on radio?

[00:05:37] The church made it.

[00:05:38] And the pastor brand was announcing the church being an in town that teaches the Bible just as the radio program was and that's how I went into Calvary and that's how you got connected.

[00:05:50] Yeah, we first went with another, there was another lead pastor that went on the trip and we went with us part of his team to plant the church.

[00:06:00] He ended up leaving within the first year and we stayed and I became the senior pastor kind of by default.

[00:06:05] I was young, I was 24 at the time and you know I thought I knew everything about church planting in church.

[00:06:12] That's 24 you should know everything.

[00:06:13] You do know everything.

[00:06:14] I went to Bible College too for two years.

[00:06:16] Oh, what then that's so much.

[00:06:17] So, I knew it.

[00:06:18] Just a two year.

[00:06:19] Just two year.

[00:06:20] I don't know.

[00:06:21] That's how smart you are.

[00:06:22] Yes, I know.

[00:06:24] But before we went over there we made a deal with a local Christian station and said can we play Chuck Smith?

[00:06:32] Because in any we'll talk about this is the big lack and a lot of these countries, especially when you're talking about East Africa.

[00:06:42] They there are a lot of Christians.

[00:06:44] There's like it's a Christian nation.

[00:06:46] Yeah.

[00:06:47] And put their 70, 90% Christian.

[00:06:50] Okay, so hold on real quick.

[00:06:51] Let's just let's just pause.

[00:06:52] I'm just the ignorant person.

[00:06:53] I don't even know why because people just pretend to hear the ignorant person.

[00:06:57] This is a comp.

[00:06:58] This is something in church playing.

[00:06:59] Why would you ever try to plan a church in a Christian nation?

[00:07:03] Because they're not enough churches for people to attend.

[00:07:07] Okay, that's a great answer.

[00:07:10] Yep.

[00:07:11] Well, we could don't.

[00:07:12] Why plant churches in America?

[00:07:14] It's saturated and people in here.

[00:07:16] Yeah.

[00:07:17] Why plant if it's a Christian nation, why do that?

[00:07:20] Yeah, and that's exactly right.

[00:07:21] As people are in attending churches.

[00:07:23] And what I'm getting at what I was getting at before two to go along with that question Daniel is,

[00:07:27] that in a lot of these countries, although there are so many Christians, there's not a lot of depth

[00:07:32] of discipleship or biblical understanding.

[00:07:35] That's biblical knowledge.

[00:07:36] Yeah.

[00:07:37] And even the churches that are there tend to be, especially the bigger ones, tend to be more...

[00:07:42] Kind of it's my own.

[00:07:43] Like charismatic, which is a must-be-shest thing.

[00:07:45] That's fun.

[00:07:46] And there's a lot of superstition.

[00:07:47] It's a lot of...

[00:07:48] It's a lot of...

[00:07:49] It's a lot of...

[00:07:50] Yeah.

[00:07:51] So mixing a lot of the local beliefs and practices with Christian Christianity and coming up with kind of a new thing.

[00:07:55] So when you come in with a church like we did, a Calberate Chapel St. Church, teaching the Bible book by book

[00:08:01] Chapter 1, Chapter 1, especially with Chuck Smith, we put his word for today on the radio there

[00:08:08] and people really gravitated toward it.

[00:08:12] Because I think there's a lot of genuine Christians.

[00:08:16] Right, is that he?

[00:08:17] You know, a lot of these churches.

[00:08:19] Yeah.

[00:08:20] Genuine and hungry.

[00:08:21] Yeah, they were one of your other words.

[00:08:22] They won.

[00:08:23] They were the real deal.

[00:08:24] And what they get right, where the is charismatic, he went, synchronism on superstition and just drama.

[00:08:34] Which...

[00:08:35] That's how you really think that.

[00:08:37] It's funny some of the stuff they do.

[00:08:39] I mean it's really...

[00:08:40] Especially for our perspective as a listener.

[00:08:43] Like who's the guy that...

[00:08:44] There's a lot of...

[00:08:45] There's a lot of...

[00:08:46] There's a lot of possible in every quarter.

[00:08:47] Okay.

[00:08:48] So the...

[00:08:49] A possible...

[00:08:50] Because of the lack of biblical understanding, not in every church because there's a lot of good churches

[00:08:54] to it.

[00:08:55] I don't want to say that.

[00:08:56] But they'll use this kind of superstition and Christianity as a platform to elevate these

[00:09:02] superstar apostles and pastors.

[00:09:05] I mean...

[00:09:06] Sounds kind of similar to what we do in the States.

[00:09:08] So you got guys.

[00:09:10] Who is the guy that had his...

[00:09:12] He wouldn't touch the ground.

[00:09:13] So his followers would lay down and he would step on his mind.

[00:09:16] Many of them.

[00:09:17] Many of them.

[00:09:18] So it tells what they do, buddy.

[00:09:19] So pretty much.

[00:09:20] I charge service in...

[00:09:21] An African...

[00:09:22] You can't dance setting.

[00:09:24] They'll be a lot of dancing, a lot of jumping.

[00:09:27] A lot of emotional expression of...

[00:09:30] Anything that is accepted in the culture, but they won't be anything related to scripture.

[00:09:37] Or even their reading, the teaching of scripture, won't be anywhere around.

[00:09:42] Well, this...

[00:09:43] Pretty much.

[00:09:44] So my wife, I'm taking one of those churches early in her Christian walk.

[00:09:48] And she said, when she went to church at 10 am, the service had begun.

[00:09:52] And she...

[00:09:53] When she walked away at 3 pm, the service hasn't ended.

[00:09:57] Okay.

[00:09:58] But there was hardly anything to do with opening the Bible, reading from scripture and teaching from scripture.

[00:10:05] Yeah.

[00:10:06] So the scripture in the Bible being taught is a great need in this country and in the culture.

[00:10:13] That's what feed people souls.

[00:10:16] That's what people are really looking for.

[00:10:18] They're hungry, spiritually.

[00:10:20] Yeah.

[00:10:21] And you can't try to entertain them and...

[00:10:24] Do as much as you can to feed their emotions, but they're still going to be hungry.

[00:10:29] They're going to go home and they're still empty.

[00:10:32] Before we get too far into this, I want to just say that in September.

[00:10:37] I don't know when you're out there listening to this episode.

[00:10:40] But if it is pre-September of 2024, we're going to have an expositors collective conference with a church planting component to it in Compalio,

[00:10:54] going to pass yours at any church.

[00:10:56] And let's just cover Jopboot and Paula.

[00:10:58] Because it seems like that's the need and...

[00:11:00] Yeah, because I'm a culture, you know, you have to study it, you have to know how do we reach these people?

[00:11:05] And obviously being Calvary Chapel, we want to reach people with the word.

[00:11:08] But specifically for those that are even hungry and believers, they mature and grow in the word.

[00:11:13] So that's beautiful that we can train and teach and help church planners and pastors there to give that need to the people that are hungry.

[00:11:21] True.

[00:11:22] And that's pretty much what Pastor Brand and a couple of others did.

[00:11:25] So for example, in 2002 when the church was planted, it was the only one in Campalio.

[00:11:31] And 20 years later, there were probably...

[00:11:34] They are probably 200 calories in Uganda alone.

[00:11:38] No, get out of here.

[00:11:39] Yeah, too.

[00:11:40] Yeah, that was a conference just recently and it was an East African one and 600 guys showed up.

[00:11:46] Pastor is a 600.

[00:11:48] Are they in relationship with one another?

[00:11:50] Yeah.

[00:11:51] And they're just doing their thing.

[00:11:53] How does a church from...

[00:11:55] Are even within the movement 20 years, right? You said 2002.

[00:11:58] Yeah, so to that.

[00:11:59] This is 2002 as yeah.

[00:12:00] How does one get from one church or a few churches to the church?

[00:12:03] How do you see in God multiply a movement of Calvary Chapel there?

[00:12:08] Well, so for example, Calvary Chapel Roa.

[00:12:11] So a guy is sent to Calvary Chapel Campalio Bible College.

[00:12:15] So the Bible College was planted alongside the church.

[00:12:17] Where we started the Bible College, a CECBC campus of the Bible College in...

[00:12:21] ...comparate alongside Calvary Chapel Campalio.

[00:12:24] So a guy comes into campalio to study for two years.

[00:12:27] So how does he give you that?

[00:12:29] He has no church.

[00:12:31] He has no church.

[00:12:33] No, no, no, no.

[00:12:34] That's what I say.

[00:12:35] You're one of the first classes.

[00:12:38] I was probably the fourth.

[00:12:40] Fourth.

[00:12:41] Okay. So the guys...

[00:12:42] Anyway, an example.

[00:12:44] Guy comes into campalio.

[00:12:45] He's sent from Arroa.

[00:12:47] And he's Northern Ugo.

[00:12:49] No, then he's going to not waste Uganda.

[00:12:51] And then he's in campalio for two years, 2006 and 2007.

[00:12:55] He's studying the Bible College.

[00:12:57] And when he goes back to his home church,

[00:12:59] he feels like...

[00:13:00] ...he feels cold to plant a church.

[00:13:03] And the guy is sent to plant a church.

[00:13:05] And over the last ten years, that guy is able to disciple.

[00:13:09] One at a time, or toward a time, over the last ten years.

[00:13:13] And ends up planting churches.

[00:13:15] So 2006, I know David and Zima, for example in Arroa.

[00:13:19] 2024, David and Zima has trained this cypal and sent out.

[00:13:24] Ten other guys, father.

[00:13:26] And then Arroa.

[00:13:28] So the culture now that has been created through the training.

[00:13:32] And the mission of church planning is like you said,

[00:13:35] only taking a guy or two year, but there's an exponential growth now.

[00:13:39] Because that's the culture now.

[00:13:41] Yeah.

[00:13:42] And a lot of these churches too.

[00:13:43] I mean, when you're thinking of a church plan,

[00:13:45] this is another cultural thing that we kind of don't connect with.

[00:13:48] You don't have to...

[00:13:49] A church plan doesn't mean you have a big church building.

[00:13:52] You have all the pews.

[00:13:54] You have the organ, you know all this stuff in the organ.

[00:13:56] You can't even remember that organ.

[00:14:00] That's what we wanted to do.

[00:14:02] Is it a real church plan?

[00:14:04] Does that have an organ?

[00:14:05] Okay.

[00:14:06] Come back when you got an organ.

[00:14:07] No, but we think of a church plan as,

[00:14:10] alright, we ran it up building and we got this space and all that.

[00:14:13] But in Uganda, it could be in a house.

[00:14:15] It could be 20 people.

[00:14:16] Of course.

[00:14:17] There's a pastor.

[00:14:18] They are baptizing people.

[00:14:19] They're doing evangelism in the neighborhood.

[00:14:21] So they'll come into the city, go to the Bible College, go back to the villages

[00:14:25] and say I want this same kind of Bible teaching church in my village.

[00:14:28] These young men are planting churches in the village.

[00:14:31] But that's how you get movement, not...

[00:14:33] Yeah.

[00:14:34] Get movement from a method, but you're training

[00:14:36] and they're actually applying the word of God

[00:14:38] like we tell people in our churches to apply it in their context.

[00:14:41] True.

[00:14:42] And it is a culture thing healthy sheep to produce.

[00:14:46] So one health guy is going to help

[00:14:49] a number of people healthy and fruitful

[00:14:52] or just about 10 years.

[00:14:54] So for example, we've planted pretty much

[00:14:57] a church every two years from 2002.

[00:15:01] Okay.

[00:15:02] Has that been intentional for Tejik?

[00:15:04] Or is that just something Lord has done?

[00:15:06] Both.

[00:15:07] Yeah.

[00:15:08] God has called us to be intentional.

[00:15:10] And when we do so, then the health issue just keep reproducing.

[00:15:16] So you have to feed the sheep.

[00:15:17] You have to be intentional on feeding the sheep and

[00:15:20] loving them and coaching them and mentoring them.

[00:15:22] And then it just reproduces.

[00:15:25] One sheep is going to take what they have received

[00:15:28] and pass it on to somebody else who needs it

[00:15:31] and this cycle repeats.

[00:15:33] Yeah.

[00:15:34] It's really a culture of discipleship.

[00:15:36] And there's...

[00:15:38] Here's another, I mean, I hate to be...

[00:15:40] I love America.

[00:15:41] Okay.

[00:15:42] For our listeners, I love the United States.

[00:15:43] Love living here.

[00:15:44] You have to say that because...

[00:15:46] Yeah.

[00:15:47] What I really do too, I mean...

[00:15:48] Do you have context if you're just listening and not watching the video?

[00:15:55] We have an African man.

[00:15:57] Yes.

[00:15:58] And I'm like an animal right there.

[00:15:59] And then...

[00:16:00] And then...

[00:16:01] And I mix.

[00:16:02] And the middle.

[00:16:03] And you're sitting in the middle.

[00:16:04] Well, that was on strategic.

[00:16:05] It was very intentional.

[00:16:06] It was intentional but the Lord did it.

[00:16:08] You know what I mean?

[00:16:11] That was a good one.

[00:16:12] Yeah, that's a visual illustration.

[00:16:15] Oh, saying that our culture is...

[00:16:18] We've got so much stuff.

[00:16:20] I mean, there's...

[00:16:21] There's greed in Africa.

[00:16:22] There's... you know, seeing in Africa of course.

[00:16:25] But there...

[00:16:26] What I found just from an outsider coming in is...

[00:16:29] There was an...

[00:16:30] A level of hunger and desire to do the Lord's work

[00:16:34] that you don't see a lot of in the United States.

[00:16:36] Because like you take your average congregation.

[00:16:38] You're not going to get, you know,

[00:16:40] 30% to 40% of the congregation with young men and young women

[00:16:43] who want to go out and do mission work in church planting.

[00:16:45] Yeah.

[00:16:46] But there it was.

[00:16:47] It was like... it was all about it.

[00:16:48] And a lot of it was through the Bible College too.

[00:16:50] So it was really...

[00:16:51] It was almost like a...

[00:16:52] You've heard of a school of ministry at a church.

[00:16:54] It was almost like a church of ministry.

[00:16:56] Yeah.

[00:16:57] To where people are being trained up to actually do what they need to be doing.

[00:17:01] Well, let's dig into that.

[00:17:02] Because I think that could be an important lesson for us

[00:17:04] to think about when we think about church planting.

[00:17:06] The focus it sounds like is discipleship.

[00:17:09] Which leads to planting churches.

[00:17:12] Not starting a church with a building or an organ, right?

[00:17:16] But when you are in the people healthy,

[00:17:19] she feeding them there's Christian con but they need to work

[00:17:22] that need to be equipped to do the work of the ministry.

[00:17:24] And now those people are getting equipped and their model is,

[00:17:27] oh, we can do this.

[00:17:29] And why is it so important?

[00:17:30] I'll ask both of you guys since I think it's really healthy and for...

[00:17:33] Why is it so important to focus more on making disciples in church planning?

[00:17:38] Rather than focusing on starting a service in church planning?

[00:17:43] Well, when we look at Scripture,

[00:17:46] think that's what Jesus did.

[00:17:48] He took this 12 guys, worked with them for three years and off you went.

[00:17:53] And you told them, I'm going to give you my power

[00:17:56] and you're going to be my witnesses.

[00:17:58] I am out of here.

[00:17:59] I'll come pick you up later but I'm out.

[00:18:02] And that's pretty much the model that we have in Scripture.

[00:18:06] And that's the way the Apostle Paul did, too.

[00:18:08] He didn't have the organ in the brain.

[00:18:09] He didn't have the organ in the brain.

[00:18:10] He would have it.

[00:18:11] His gospel was from wasn't the field.

[00:18:13] Yeah.

[00:18:14] And obviously, you know, this day, you know,

[00:18:16] not everybody's calling this to plan a church or to go out and do that.

[00:18:19] But I think you're right when we do focus on this

[00:18:21] discipleship more than just doing the service.

[00:18:24] You know, it's really...

[00:18:26] I think God blesses it more first of all because a lot of these young church planners

[00:18:30] and I'm one of them,

[00:18:32] you know, there's kind of the dream of having your own church and having the

[00:18:36] mean people at the door and doing the service and everybody listens to the message.

[00:18:40] Oh, good job, pastor and they have a great time of worship

[00:18:43] and then they go home or go to the restaurant or whatever they do on Sunday afternoon.

[00:18:46] But church in the New Testament says it's much different than that.

[00:18:50] It's very life-changing and life- encompassing.

[00:18:54] Like, it's all about discipleship.

[00:18:56] Exactly.

[00:18:57] You're hanging out with me.

[00:18:59] You're coming over to my house.

[00:19:00] You're all done stuff together.

[00:19:01] We meet during the week, that sort of thing.

[00:19:04] And because that you've gone in culture is so relational already

[00:19:09] just by nature of the culture itself,

[00:19:12] it's very...

[00:19:13] Americans are very individualistic, okay?

[00:19:16] And we use that to our advantage in many ways.

[00:19:18] But in Uganda, much like much of the rest of the world actually,

[00:19:22] it's very...

[00:19:24] Romational and...

[00:19:25] Romational, yeah.

[00:19:26] So it's...

[00:19:27] It's all...

[00:19:28] It kind of...

[00:19:29] It saturates into the people and the communities that the church is going to,

[00:19:35] especially in the villages where everybody's together.

[00:19:38] Yeah.

[00:19:39] No, I agree with that.

[00:19:40] And I don't ask that out of ignorance.

[00:19:42] I ask that to get your perspective because what ends up happening in your own culture,

[00:19:46] right?

[00:19:47] You know, your missionary going there, you see things differently.

[00:19:49] When you're in your own culture sometimes you don't see.

[00:19:52] And what we've done in the modern day church is we've made a distinction

[00:19:56] between church planning and church starting.

[00:19:58] You can...

[00:19:59] You can go after starting a church

[00:20:01] and disciples may or may not be made.

[00:20:04] But if you make disciples in Italy, a church will start.

[00:20:07] Yeah.

[00:20:08] And if we go after discipleship then Jesus gave that great commission.

[00:20:12] It's automatic worship.

[00:20:14] But if you just start a service,

[00:20:16] could be from God?

[00:20:18] Could be not.

[00:20:19] Yeah.

[00:20:20] And I think sometimes it's so natural when we talk about church planning

[00:20:22] and fundraising in this and we joke around about it organ

[00:20:25] but what about the church planning perspectives

[00:20:28] where we're trying to get the salaries and the lights

[00:20:30] and this network?

[00:20:31] Yeah.

[00:20:32] Where if you see organically,

[00:20:33] the focus was on preaching on peatfeeding people

[00:20:37] the word discipleship.

[00:20:38] That's where you get the movement of multiplication.

[00:20:41] True.

[00:20:42] And that's a biblical thing.

[00:20:43] What's going on right now is that the church.

[00:20:45] Like, what do you excited about in your ministry?

[00:20:47] You go...

[00:20:48] So recently there was a guy who comes from Congo.

[00:20:52] We made a conference. He wanted to study the Bible.

[00:20:55] He's French speaking.

[00:20:56] So we are trying to plant more churches in French speaking.

[00:21:02] Rable, infested, Eastern Congo.

[00:21:06] Yeah.

[00:21:07] And just like you said, in fact, this is even in the Calvary History.

[00:21:12] Most of the Calvary is that we are planning.

[00:21:15] We're in even intentional somebody.

[00:21:17] Just wanted to study the Bible with a group of friends or family at home.

[00:21:21] And then we just grow up into a mega church or whatever size of a church.

[00:21:25] So...

[00:21:27] So right now, we are trying to get

[00:21:30] efforts towards planning churches in French speaking Congo.

[00:21:34] And yeah.

[00:21:35] If someone is listening, they want to partner up with you.

[00:21:37] How are they going to do that?

[00:21:38] You want to... you got an email or what?

[00:21:40] We can't wait outside.

[00:21:42] Okay. Just connect to the church website?

[00:21:44] Yeah.

[00:21:45] Just put it on a way, be it is...

[00:21:47] Calvary.com.

[00:21:50] Calvary.la.com.

[00:21:52] And we just want to carry on the Ministry that God has given us.

[00:21:58] We still have the Bible College running.

[00:22:00] We have 11 to 15 students every semester.

[00:22:03] And out of those guys are really frontline church plantas.

[00:22:07] Some of them even come on that they don't know what they're going to do after

[00:22:11] by a book college, but God eventually speaks to them.

[00:22:13] Yeah.

[00:22:14] It's really great.

[00:22:15] And this level of commitment with the students there is really high.

[00:22:19] I mean, those guys have very little money.

[00:22:22] A lot of them, they're walking to the class,

[00:22:25] you know, they walk a couple miles to class.

[00:22:28] And there's a high commitment level.

[00:22:30] At least when we were there, we really saw that.

[00:22:32] If there's a high commitment level, what do those students go through

[00:22:35] the two year program?

[00:22:36] Is it a normal like the Coward Chapel Bible College experience?

[00:22:39] Or is it a specific to that continent and that culture?

[00:22:42] It is a full curriculum from the main campus.

[00:22:47] Okay?

[00:22:48] Yeah.

[00:22:49] And we've, you know, changes in the city.

[00:22:52] We probably are starting to pray about raising some money and by property

[00:22:57] and build a Bible College out of just a little out of the city.

[00:23:00] So that's a great idea.

[00:23:01] We can have dormitories, you know, maybe 10 or 15 beds.

[00:23:05] Yeah.

[00:23:06] The city's changing, the city costs keep going high.

[00:23:09] So it keeps getting difficult for students to make it.

[00:23:14] So probably are starting to pray and think about making it easier for them

[00:23:19] and maybe providing, um, lodging for the semester and that kind of stuff.

[00:23:24] Yeah, that's a great idea.

[00:23:25] It's not easy to get property in stuff though because compala is a huge city.

[00:23:28] I mean, it can just, when I live there, I was, how long ago was that?

[00:23:32] Is that even 10 years?

[00:23:33] 10 years or so?

[00:23:35] 14.

[00:23:36] You lived in 2010.

[00:23:37] We lived in 2010.

[00:23:38] 14 years now.

[00:23:39] 2011 actually live in, yeah.

[00:23:42] Um, man.

[00:23:43] But I'm coming back in September.

[00:23:45] The expositors collected.

[00:23:47] Yeah, looking forward to that.

[00:23:48] I'll put the link in the show notes along with the website link.

[00:23:51] That's amazing.

[00:23:52] Can people come alongside and help support the Bible College of the New Year's?

[00:23:56] Yes.

[00:23:57] Whether we finance this or block teaching or like, what does that look like?

[00:23:59] They can not give towards helping the Bible College and the students.

[00:24:03] Yeah.

[00:24:04] Some of them kind of fought it.

[00:24:05] So we have to look for support for each one of them and help them through their studies

[00:24:10] in New Year.

[00:24:12] And if you want to come on teach, please come for the semistar or for a block class that

[00:24:16] is about two weeks, about 10 days for the hours for a block class.

[00:24:20] If you just want to come and see it come and see what is happening out there.

[00:24:24] Yeah.

[00:24:25] That's amazing.

[00:24:26] I think it's important to know that sometimes, especially when we have a church planning

[00:24:30] podcast, right?

[00:24:31] People can come alongside of those things.

[00:24:33] And it seems like you're already fruitful.

[00:24:36] God's doing the work multiplying why wouldn't we come alongside and help?

[00:24:40] No, and I'm saying like when we're looking at important things coming in September,

[00:24:44] you can just, you know, hit a Brian and we go, Daniel, let's go.

[00:24:47] Let's do this.

[00:24:48] Just go and play and then in September.

[00:24:50] They're a real cool thing about so many countries, not just Uganda,

[00:24:53] but even like we're talking about Mexico, parts of South America,

[00:24:57] that Eastern Europe, there's a lot of God's doing a lot of cool stuff with church planning.

[00:25:02] That's what we're doing.

[00:25:03] The cultivate program in particular, we're seeing a lot of good fruit come out of these places.

[00:25:08] And so like let's go to those places.

[00:25:11] Like that's invest into those kind of areas where God's working, guys doing stuff.

[00:25:17] But it's nice to have Zeddy and a lot of the other guys in Calvary Chapel.

[00:25:20] Now there's so many more Bible teaching churches.

[00:25:23] So many more.

[00:25:24] In 100th of the year.

[00:25:26] Yeah.

[00:25:27] So what you got in there that I loved, especially compala is, you know, it's English speaking.

[00:25:32] So if you are a visiting pastor and you're going to teach like a block class or whatever,

[00:25:36] and you can go and teach as an English.

[00:25:39] If you're going out to the village, it's a different story, you'll probably need to get.

[00:25:42] Little bit of a translation of that.

[00:25:43] But most of it, I mean, it's almost 75% English speaking.

[00:25:47] Yeah.

[00:25:48] That's amazing.

[00:25:49] So what do you think?

[00:25:51] Can we interest you on a trip to Uganda?

[00:25:53] Oh.

[00:25:54] I love the supporting just a student for the next semester.

[00:25:59] There you go.

[00:26:00] What was it, Jean?

[00:26:01] A little bit cheaper.

[00:26:02] Yeah.

[00:26:03] No, when I do think it is important to see, I think that was one quote by theologian like,

[00:26:08] Hey, just see where God is moving and just follow him.

[00:26:11] Yeah.

[00:26:12] And I think it's really important to know that, especially his Calvary, our mission is like church planning.

[00:26:17] Right.

[00:26:18] When you focus on discipleship teaching the word healthy sheep, produce healthy sheep.

[00:26:21] All of a sudden, you have a gathering of Christians.

[00:26:23] And so we want to come along side and support.

[00:26:26] And there's in our church planning movement and then you can cultivate of planning a thousand churches ten years.

[00:26:31] It doesn't mean that you have to do all that stuff.

[00:26:34] There's a lot of ministry that can be come along side even supporting Bible colleges, training centers, finances, prayers,

[00:26:41] even a giving people exposure.

[00:26:43] I'm coming to this a little bit ignorant of knowing the ministry, but I'm a little bit

[00:26:48] just too, because I know some of the answers I want to get and draw from God is like,

[00:26:52] Hey, so what is a church planning?

[00:26:54] No, but I think it's important actually to just...

[00:26:57] I'll let you ask.

[00:26:58] Think of step back to say, hey, Meg, Jesus doing an amazing work.

[00:27:01] How do we support that?

[00:27:03] It's really encouraging to know and to hear just your perspective of how Jesus, you know,

[00:27:08] working in your country, it's amazing.

[00:27:11] Who you got?

[00:27:12] You got some guys working with you.

[00:27:14] Do you still do the Burundee service?

[00:27:17] Yes, we have four different services and two different languages.

[00:27:22] So the Uganda, the English and then the Burundee, the Kirindi, along with Pastor Elvis.

[00:27:28] Do you speak of languages?

[00:27:30] I speak of languages from Uganda and Pastor Elvis speaks six languages.

[00:27:35] Yeah.

[00:27:36] Send my greetings to him and his family.

[00:27:38] You will see him very soon.

[00:27:40] Yeah, I will see him over there.

[00:27:41] Here we go.

[00:27:42] Everybody's looking forward to seeing you.

[00:27:43] Yeah, it looks like that's something you can do.

[00:27:45] I want to bring Linda to tend, this is going to be high.

[00:27:48] Yeah.

[00:27:49] Your last point is going into college in that.

[00:27:52] Nobody's going to be home.

[00:27:53] So you can bring Linda as well.

[00:27:55] She can do something with Lisa.

[00:27:56] Well, the girls want to come to.

[00:27:57] So our two daughters are born in Campalla.

[00:27:59] Julie and Leon are born there.

[00:28:01] And so they grew up there and we loved it.

[00:28:05] We had a lot of close friends and great church.

[00:28:08] Let me ask you because you're hearing this.

[00:28:11] You obviously know about this but just taking a step back.

[00:28:14] How rewarding is it to go plan a church and then pass it on to someone and see the work continues.

[00:28:20] Oh, yeah, that's the best.

[00:28:21] Yeah, I'm really proud of Zeddy.

[00:28:23] I'm proud of you Zeddy. You're doing good.

[00:28:24] Thank you.

[00:28:25] Yeah, I just think it's amazing.

[00:28:30] It's just so wonderful to.

[00:28:31] And even with some of the other churches like I've been blessed to be able to look back and see churches that we've been a part of planting or help plan or plan it ourselves.

[00:28:39] And to see them like prospering and doing well, it's you know.

[00:28:43] It's really a journey like one four.

[00:28:46] I know greater joy than this.

[00:28:47] Exactly.

[00:28:48] My children walking through the truth.

[00:28:50] I just think it's important to even connect that with you guys here and just say,

[00:28:54] I'm proud of both of you because that's how we have movement right?

[00:28:57] You want to hug?

[00:28:58] Should we do a hug?

[00:28:59] Maybe later.

[00:29:00] I don't know.

[00:29:01] No, but just think about it.

[00:29:03] Yeah, let's go in and out.

[00:29:05] So many church players have such a narrow vision of planting their church rather than the kingdom of God.

[00:29:11] And if you want movement, right?

[00:29:14] You're not planning or you're not pastoring 200 churches.

[00:29:17] No.

[00:29:18] But you're transforming this on.

[00:29:19] Yeah, that's one.

[00:29:20] Yeah. And so I think that if we have this mindset of it's not about me because that's what you really did.

[00:29:26] You said hey, you've got to hold it lightly.

[00:29:28] You're not your church.

[00:29:29] Yeah.

[00:29:30] It's Jesus the head.

[00:29:31] And so you've done a good job starting doing that training.

[00:29:34] But then it's like hey, well, you do it.

[00:29:36] And now because you talk that, there's literally multiplication in multiple people are being trained in that cold.

[00:29:42] When you hold it too tightly because I've seen pastors do this too.

[00:29:45] They hold on to a so tight.

[00:29:46] They don't let anybody else in.

[00:29:47] They don't let the next generation rise up.

[00:29:49] Like unless you're willing to understand that this church,

[00:29:53] you're not the last pastor of this church.

[00:29:56] There's going to be a pastor of you after you.

[00:29:58] Yeah.

[00:29:59] Of this church.

[00:30:00] And because if there's not, then the church dies with you.

[00:30:02] And that's what happens to a lot of churches.

[00:30:04] The pastor's got all that don't let go.

[00:30:06] The church dies.

[00:30:07] Yeah.

[00:30:08] And then the pastor dies too.

[00:30:09] That's true.

[00:30:10] And so you have to that mentality of I'm not, this isn't my church first of all.

[00:30:14] And secondly, someone else is pastoring after me.

[00:30:17] Who is that going to be and how am I going to invest into them?

[00:30:19] And support them.

[00:30:20] Yeah.

[00:30:21] Like his success is my success.

[00:30:22] That's how I look at it.

[00:30:23] Yeah.

[00:30:24] I never Daniel Fusco teaching on church playing.

[00:30:26] And he said, you got to bake things in the DNA.

[00:30:28] Bake the food early.

[00:30:29] Like when it's all in the reading of level, like when you start your church,

[00:30:32] you're modeling that.

[00:30:33] It's going there now.

[00:30:34] It's a part of the culture.

[00:30:35] And I think right from the get go, you bake in the day,

[00:30:38] I'm going to be generous.

[00:30:39] Or I'm going to train people up.

[00:30:41] We're doing this to plant churches or what?

[00:30:43] Yeah.

[00:30:44] And I think, I think, it's too often when we think about church planning.

[00:30:46] We're just thinking about our church.

[00:30:47] But we're not thinking how am I going to have a church that plants churches,

[00:30:51] that plants churches.

[00:30:52] Yeah.

[00:30:53] How do we make disciples that make disciples?

[00:30:55] That makes us.

[00:30:56] Let me make disciples.

[00:30:57] Zeddy, give us some final words, man, about what you're excited about.

[00:31:00] And just anything you want to share with the listeners.

[00:31:03] Well, I'm just excited to see more churches being planted.

[00:31:07] Most students coming in and rolling.

[00:31:09] And I'm looking forward to working with many more guys who are going to plant churches.

[00:31:14] Or we'll go into belidas in different ways and different capacities around the region.

[00:31:21] And especially getting into the DRA Congo, which has been in more forever.

[00:31:26] So they were really worked on over there.

[00:31:28] It's a whole different organ.

[00:31:30] And I think that's where Jesus would go.

[00:31:32] That's where Jesus would go to the hadding.

[00:31:35] Yeah.

[00:31:36] To bring hope and healing here.

[00:31:37] Amen.

[00:31:38] Well, thank you guys both for letting me just ask you questions.

[00:31:41] That's great.

[00:31:42] Thank you for popping in and talking with us about Africa, the Pearl of Africa.

[00:31:48] What kind of a country is that?

[00:31:53] The great country is that I'm afraid of the...

[00:31:55] What was it that you guys came to the conference and he was right after Black Panther,

[00:31:59] because I look at where Fummole Kanda is.

[00:32:02] Oh, nice to meet you.

[00:32:04] That's good.

[00:32:07] All right, Zeddy, great seeing you again.

[00:32:09] Great hanging with you looking forward to September, the Exposers Collection,

[00:32:12] which is by the way, for our listeners open to anyone who wants to register

[00:32:16] and that and go to the website.

[00:32:18] Can I maybe even just...

[00:32:20] Yeah, I can't.

[00:32:21] But want to come in and check it out as well?

[00:32:23] Yes, totally.

[00:32:24] And there was the option of even supporting a past up to come at that.

[00:32:27] Because some response says I'm going to come from,

[00:32:29] Oh, as a way from the city.

[00:32:31] We'll put a link for that in the show notes as well if you want to support a past

[00:32:34] or to come to this because they...

[00:32:35] It's expensive, especially these village guys.

[00:32:37] They make very little money in the...

[00:32:39] Yeah, but what does it mean?

[00:32:40] We're just like, navigate an impact that you can impart to actually do it.

[00:32:44] If you spend...

[00:32:45] You know, you got to McDonald's and you spend $20, you barely get a hamburger these days.

[00:32:51] You send that to...

[00:32:52] Send that to Zeddy, someone's going to the conference.

[00:32:55] There you go.

[00:32:56] I don't know the way you want to.

[00:32:57] Or to the call it.

[00:32:58] Oh, yeah, gosh!

[00:32:59] That's amazing.

[00:33:00] Where did I sign up?

[00:33:02] Oh, yeah, right here.

[00:33:03] I did.

[00:33:04] I did not leave.

[00:33:05] Yeah, what did the link?

[00:33:06] All right, God bless you guys.

[00:33:07] Thanks for being on the show.

[00:33:08] Good talking to you.

[00:33:09] Thank you.

[00:33:10] Good to have you.

[00:33:11] Thank you.

[00:33:13] Thanks for listening.

[00:33:14] The Call to Vatured Planning Podcast is part of CGN Media.

[00:33:17] The podcast network that points to Christ.

[00:33:19] Check out CGNMedia.org for more great shows and ways to support the ministry.