Planting New Churches – Terry Michaels & Kyle Curry

[00:00:00] Hello and welcome to another episode of the Cultivate Church Planning Podcast.

[00:00:04] I'm your host, Brian Kelly.

[00:00:06] And before we get started on this episode, I want to tell you about a couple of events that are coming up that I think you really enjoy.

[00:00:11] First of all, we're going to be having a Cultivate Gathering.

[00:00:14] If you have questions, if you want more information, if you want to get connected, I will be there.

[00:00:19] Kyle will be there. Terry will be there.

[00:00:22] We're going to be at Forest Ridge Calvary Chapel, and that's in Austin, Texas.

[00:00:26] It's Saturday, May 18th. You can register and find out more information at forestrigcalvary.com.

[00:00:33] Secondly, would you like to be equipped and inspired?

[00:00:37] Is learning and collaborating amongst fellow Christians sound encouraging and refreshing?

[00:00:43] Then you should come to the CGN Calvary Chapel International Conference.

[00:00:47] It's June 23rd to the 26th at Calvary Chapel Costa Mesa.

[00:00:52] You can register online at conference.calvarychapel.com.

[00:00:56] This year's theme is Hope, Suffering and Glory, Studies in 1 Peter.

[00:01:01] We're going to have nine speakers addressing topics taken from 1 Peter, June 23rd to 26th.

[00:01:06] Register at conference.calvarychapel.com.

[00:01:09] All right, let's get into this week's episode. God bless.

[00:01:14] Welcome to the Cultivate Church Planning Podcast.

[00:01:17] I'm your host, Brian Kelly, and we've got a great episode today.

[00:01:20] I'm here with two amazing stand-up fellows, two friends of mine, Terry Michaels and Kyle Curry.

[00:01:28] Terry is the pastor in Austin, Texas.

[00:01:33] It used to be called Calvary Chapel Austin. What's it called now?

[00:01:36] The Forest Ridge Calvary Chapel.

[00:01:39] Forest Ridge Calvary Chapel.

[00:01:41] And we'll talk about the name change and maybe some of the things that went into that in a minute.

[00:01:46] But then we also have Kyle Curry who's been on the show before.

[00:01:49] And Kyle, welcome back.

[00:01:52] Thanks, man. It's good to be here.

[00:01:54] Yep. And Kyle is also in the midst of an exciting church plant himself.

[00:01:58] He was on the episode where we talked about new church planters and planting in a coffee shop.

[00:02:05] But you're not there anymore.

[00:02:07] No, we're not there.

[00:02:08] He graduated out of the coffee shop.

[00:02:10] Yeah.

[00:02:11] You still get the coffee from the place or no?

[00:02:13] I do every day, but the church sadly does not.

[00:02:17] What kind of coffee you're brewing is for our listeners?

[00:02:21] I'm ashamed to say.

[00:02:23] You had to say it. We're learning here.

[00:02:25] Kirkland signature.

[00:02:27] What's wrong with that?

[00:02:29] Were you ashamed of Kirkland?

[00:02:31] Shame to Costco?

[00:02:32] No, I love Costco, but their coffee is Starbucks coffee so it's not good.

[00:02:37] Okay.

[00:02:38] Yeah, I remember we talked about this last time.

[00:02:40] I think I lost like a third of our listeners after you said Starbucks was not good coffee.

[00:02:45] Edit that out.

[00:02:48] What about Frappuccino, Kyle?

[00:02:50] I don't drink that, but maybe it's good.

[00:02:52] Okay. Yep. All right.

[00:02:54] Well, let's get right into it.

[00:02:56] We're going to be talking about church planting.

[00:02:59] What else?

[00:03:00] And I just want to let everybody know that Kyle, myself and Terry are going to be together live in Austin, Texas.

[00:03:09] And I'm going to be talking about this.

[00:03:11] To do a cultivate training.

[00:03:17] What do we call it?

[00:03:18] Seminar.

[00:03:20] Yeah, many conference along with some other exciting stuff.

[00:03:24] Terry, why don't you run us through the, what we're going to be doing there and what you have planned.

[00:03:29] Yeah. And, you know, even conference might be too big of a word.

[00:03:33] But I think we're going to be doing a lot of gathering.

[00:03:36] So many conferences going on and people think of lecture upon lecture.

[00:03:41] And I wanted to keep this real casual to where the talks would be kind of brief.

[00:03:46] You know, 15, 20 minutes and then followed by a Q&A session, a panel discussion.

[00:03:53] And make it real interactive and put a lot of emphasis on fellowship and creating an environment where people feel comfortable to ask questions.

[00:04:01] And I would encourage anybody who's in the area to attend that.

[00:04:06] It's going to be free of charge.

[00:04:08] You can get more information at cultivate church planting.com.

[00:04:12] That's our website and you'll see there's a link at the top that talks about our gatherings.

[00:04:18] And so we'll be there in Austin.

[00:04:19] What are the dates again, Terry?

[00:04:20] I should know this.

[00:04:22] I should know it too.

[00:04:24] May 18.

[00:04:25] I know it.

[00:04:26] Oh, Kyle knows it.

[00:04:28] May 18. So if you're available, go on the website and click that link.

[00:04:33] You can also go on Terry's church website. I believe that correct Terry to get information.

[00:04:39] Yeah, you could even register on there as well.

[00:04:42] Oh perfect forestridge Calvary.com forestridge Calvary.com and go on there and listen to a few sermons online sermons of pastor Terry while you're at it.

[00:04:52] Some good stuff.

[00:04:53] Why not?

[00:04:57] Okay, so Kyle, let's go to you first. What's going on these days?

[00:05:00] What's tell us tell us about church planting in the.

[00:05:05] Is it second year now or third?

[00:05:08] Third year we're going into the third year. Yeah, so we planted in January of 21.

[00:05:15] So yeah, no 22 January 22.

[00:05:18] So it's

[00:05:21] I don't know. Honestly, I think it's been to January was here. So we're a little over to here.

[00:05:25] Okay, going into the third year. We started in a coffee shop and that was great. And we went to two services, which was necessary, but that wasn't great because the facility wasn't large.

[00:05:39] It wasn't like we had a couple hundred people and then let 200 into 100 100.

[00:05:44] And then we had like 70 adults. We had to split it between 35 and 35. And so as you know, a room with 35 people feels a lot. It feels empty. Right. And so that necessity we couldn't get more people in.

[00:05:57] So we went to two services, but it just didn't accomplish the, the, the mission. And so as quickly it was time to find a place we can get back to one service until we can grow to kind of critical mass to be able to split into service.

[00:06:11] I'll come back in a second Kyle, but that brings up a good question. Yeah.

[00:06:16] No, you've got a lot more to say because I know that God's doing some really cool stuff there and Murphy's bro.

[00:06:21] But Terry, and we just, we just went to two services too. And I know there's a lot of pastors out there or potential church planters that are asking the question like when do you do two services.

[00:06:32] I'm assuming Terry that you've done multiple services before or what's your situation.

[00:06:37] Yeah, we're doing two services as well. And, you know, I think it really depends on the size of the room and the amount of people.

[00:06:48] Obviously the size of the room is going to dictate that.

[00:06:51] And a lot of times it's the children's ministry that dictates that it's not that the auditorium or the sanctuary is full. It's that the kids ministry is full.

[00:07:00] And that's what initially drew drove us to two services way back when where we just didn't have enough space for the kids.

[00:07:08] So there's a lot of factors that can play into that size of the room amount of people amount to kids.

[00:07:15] Yeah, that's a good point. And that's one of the reasons why we did it too was children's ministry. But then we we did this thing where and looking back maybe it would have been better to do it different.

[00:07:26] But we just did children's ministry at one service. We had nursery at both because nursery was really the the.

[00:07:34] That's the kind of growth. That's the growth point at our church with the young families and stuff. So we did children's ministry at the second service.

[00:07:43] And then all the families came to the second service and we didn't really solve the problem there. So we should have done children's ministry at both of them.

[00:07:52] Maybe I don't know. Well, that can be a challenge too. And I know a lot of churches follow that same category where you just don't have the infrastructure for children's ministry in both services.

[00:08:03] But at least you can offer an alternative to those people who are serving in the children's ministry that they're not exactly, you know, they're not being out of fellowship, you know, four times a week.

[00:08:12] Because they're ministering.

[00:08:14] So Terry, how long have you been a pastor and how did you end up in in Austin?

[00:08:20] Well, well, I started as a youth pastor back in San Bernardino, California at the Calvary Chapel there. And we started that church back in 1981.

[00:08:33] And we're there for 15 years.

[00:08:37] And they got the call to the mission field. And then coming off the mission field from Ziegen, Germany, we planted a Calvary Chapel in San Marcus, Texas. And that was back in 1997.

[00:08:51] And so we were there 12 years. The church blossomed from, you know, just meeting in our living room to meeting in a hotel, you know, facility and then other rentals to having our own facility.

[00:09:07] And then in 2009 I was asked to come up to Calvary Austin take over a church, but it's all been an awesome journey. And so, been at it a good while.

[00:09:17] And so I was like, oh, that's really cool. What was it like meeting in the I've always wondered about meeting in a hotel because I felt like it just so two things like in church planting you got guys meeting in schools.

[00:09:27] We've done that.

[00:09:29] You can have people meeting in movie theaters.

[00:09:33] There's a guy pastor Billy here in Florida meets in a movie theater.

[00:09:38] And then you got people meeting in hotel, like, whether it's a ballroom or convention center room or whatever but how I know about the.

[00:09:49] So my, my thing is, I feel weird about meeting in the movie theater because I don't know why I don't know why I should feel weird about it.

[00:09:56] Yes.

[00:09:58] That's a good thing.

[00:10:01] And I didn't ask Billy if they make popcorn on Sunday but I think they might. It's not a bad idea, but I don't know it's just my thing but what's it. I mean meeting in the hotel what was that like for tears winners that may want to look at that option.

[00:10:14] We were able to grow there but it was slow growth I mean there are a lot of people that do have hang ups with it I remember one fellow calling and asking where we meet and I told him or at the Howard Johnson's and the you know in the

[00:10:28] equity room he goes there's no way I'm going to take my wife to a hotel for church.

[00:10:34] But then there are other people who are very excited about a new work.

[00:10:38] One of the benefits about meeting in the hotel at least with us is they provided free coffee and pastry so.

[00:10:44] Oh wow.

[00:10:45] That was always good.

[00:10:47] But we did grow there but it was it was rather slow growth.

[00:10:51] I mean I'm kind of right Kyle to have a continental breakfast when you come to the church.

[00:10:55] Most people can just do Starbucks but.

[00:10:58] We actually do.

[00:10:59] Herklon.

[00:11:00] Pastries every every Sunday we have different people volunteer to bake them and we have some really talented and gifted bakers in the church and so it's awesome.

[00:11:09] I always look forward to when Brooke shout out to Brooke when she makes her blueberry muffin like cookie things.

[00:11:16] Oh they're so good.

[00:11:17] That's good.

[00:11:18] Yeah whatever it takes right get him in the door.

[00:11:20] Whatever it takes.

[00:11:22] But back to you Kyle your church is doing really great and you are a product of first of all the Lord and what he's done in your life and in your vision and everything but you went through the cultivate church planning planting program and a real success story of that but why don't you talk a little bit about that.

[00:11:41] I mean we've we've done this a little bit on another episode but just refresh our memory what was it like going through cultivate and where are you right now.

[00:11:49] Yeah so I was the actual very first person to actually go through the program.

[00:11:53] I was the the gate first.

[00:11:55] The very first.

[00:11:56] Wow.

[00:11:57] That's what I've been told so that's what we tell everyone.

[00:12:00] Yeah.

[00:12:02] Dang it.

[00:12:03] Never mind.

[00:12:04] You're special.

[00:12:06] I've been called that my whole life.

[00:12:08] I couldn't figure it out why.

[00:12:10] No but so I was yeah I went through it.

[00:12:14] I know for four years ago now right we first moved out here to Tennessee and it was good.

[00:12:20] I think the best thing about it was just the coaching and the mentorship that came out of it you know I was on staff for since 2008 to 2020 so like 12 years like so it wasn't new to like pastoral ministry or wasn't new to the church world.

[00:12:36] And so I didn't need as much as the nut and bolts of how to run a small group as I did just coaching through everyday life things in the nearness of a coach and so that was the best thing my favorite thing I took away from cultivate

[00:12:56] and now I get to be a part of that and help other guys go through that as well and I don't speak from all this crazy experience but what I do have is just I know what it's like to go through with somebody by my side and that was Jeff guy and it still is Jeff guy.

[00:13:12] He was the one that kind of mentored me through that on this side over here in Tennessee and it was awesome so I highly recommend encourage and you should get plugged into cultivate if you're not.

[00:13:22] It really is a unlike a lot of other church planning programs it really is a work together with the local church, a very relationship based thing so it's not a huge complicated series of steps you have to go through but it's basically let's connect people up with not only their local church

[00:13:38] with mentors but also coaches that have been through the process who know what they're doing can kind of go along along with you each step of the way however the Lord is leading you to plant.

[00:13:48] We have a goal desire rather to plant 1000 churches in 10 years Calvary chapels and so excited about that and we're seeing some good progress and part of the progress is due to it I just want to give you to big props right now is for both Terry and Kyle are part of our leadership team so if

[00:14:08] you go on that cultivate church planning website, you'll be able to see the leadership team there right on the on the homepage right on the homepage, you guys made it.

[00:14:17] You really really arrived.

[00:14:19] Made it to what I don't know but front page.

[00:14:22] Yeah, you mean the front page news. No but they're day and a few others, including myself are really spearheading what we believe is this next generation of Calvary Chapel church plants.

[00:14:37] I know you, Pastor Terry you've been a part of Calvary Chapel for quite a long time.

[00:14:42] Since, if I can remember is 81 that you started out in 1980.

[00:14:47] 1980. Yeah.

[00:14:49] So we all three of us and the others who are on that leadership team with cultivate love Calvary Chapel love the verse by verse teaching love the simplicity of it and just being led by the spirit.

[00:15:01] So, yeah, these guys have been able to join that that team that leadership team and help us really shift shift into the next year I feel like for the future of what cultivate is doing and what Calvary Chapel church planning is doing so.

[00:15:16] Terry, what do you what do you think's going to happen where are we gonna. Are we gonna see another revival are we going to plant more churches what's going on.

[00:15:23] I think so. I mean, I know the Lord is already blessing this initiative of cultivate.

[00:15:31] You know, I'm so grateful for it because I didn't have it back when I church planted in 1997.

[00:15:38] You know that it was kind of like goodbye and good luck.

[00:15:43] I wasn't in touch with really anybody and I didn't have anybody mentoring me. I didn't know the first thing about church planting just, I had the call from the Lord.

[00:15:53] I showed up in a city where I didn't know a soul. And I would have really loved to have somebody, you know, speaking into my life at that time and encouraging me, and just didn't have that sort of thing back.

[00:16:07] Yeah, if there was that kind of thing I never heard of it. But yeah when I found out about cultivate it's like this is something that our movement needs is to get just a little more organized in church planting and have the mentoring and discipleship and encouragement and everything else that goes with it the training.

[00:16:26] Yeah, totally. And I think it's that the, you know, it's the simplicity of it to it's it's just, it works really well with the Calvary chap for those of you who are not familiar with Calvary chapel.

[00:16:39] It was basically started in the 60s and Jesus revolution and verse by verse teaching plus the power of the Holy Spirit, the ministry of the Holy Spirit, and really kind of took off from there. Organically I would say as guys went out like Terry and others to plant churches, not really knowing how or what to do but

[00:17:00] feeling that call being led by the spirit and God's faithful he's always faithful. But now to be able to kind of put some put a little bit of guide rails on I would say a little bit of, you know, seeing, you know, getting the process of seeing asking the questions are you called the church plant is this right for you that sort of stuff can really be helpful and look

[00:17:24] at Kyle's here. Look at Kyle, first guy to do it.

[00:17:28] Look at me.

[00:17:32] So Kyle that down in or up in Tennessee I guess I should say because I'm down in Florida but you guys were in a coffee shop. Last time we talked to you you were meeting it was really a cool opportunity where you were able to go in you knew the coffee shop owners.

[00:17:49] You were able to meet there on Sundays have a church service, like you said about room for about 70 which isn't a lot if you're trying to if you're if people are coming and you're growing.

[00:17:59] Yeah, but it you've since moved to a new location once you tell us about that because it's a pretty interesting story and I'm going to ask you some questions. And then I'm going to hit Terry up about the answers to the questions.

[00:18:13] If you if you and I don't know we can go. We'll always be able to go to Terry and get those answers.

[00:18:18] Yeah, I'm good.

[00:18:20] Well it's I'll give you the shortened condition version of it because it is a long story but my daughter was started attending the youth group here at a local Baptist church.

[00:18:30] We didn't have a youth group at our church you know we just started and so she started attending.

[00:18:37] I got to know the youth pastor.

[00:18:41] He was a great guy or is a great guy and he ended up leaving the church, my daughter comes home on Wednesday night and says hey pastor Jeff is his last Wednesdays next week so I called him.

[00:18:53] He and I become friends as hey man what's going on you know and he said just just time to go, you know but I've been around ministry long enough to know that there's always more to the story, you know so I just left it alone and several months later, he calls me out of the blue

[00:19:07] and he's like hey, you know the the church that I was at they no longer have a senior pastor.

[00:19:15] Can I give them your number, you know they're they're kind of like for you to take over something.

[00:19:21] I mean, that was kind of what his thoughts were you know.

[00:19:26] And so I said sure you can give them a number so I ended up sitting with down meeting with their their leadership team now the church had fractured it kind of had a church split some things went down and won't get into here but so they were fractured, you know and they were kind of grass mesh draws

[00:19:41] and they were left with little pastoral no pastoral leadership and so I met with them and I say hey well I can offer to fill the pulpit for you.

[00:19:50] You know, this was but this is on top of your other responsibilities at your church plan your fledgling church plant.

[00:19:57] My church plan is is going work to services and so I was teaching my my church in the morning and then jet and over there.

[00:20:06] And teach him for them and doing that and then we just developed a relationship and so they have a student building a youth building on the back of the property that's like 6000 square feet or 7000 square feet it's big it's got a cafe space like a coffee shop in there.

[00:20:22] And so we went in there they offered us hey just use this you know free of charge. And so we started meeting there we painted in there and upgraded it, you know, put some decor just made it look like it less of a youth space and more of a church.

[00:20:37] And we've been meeting there ever since. And so that was in the end of January of this year. Nice. And you, that's, that's a good reason why I brought this up is because what is it.

[00:20:48] I mean, in your experience and it sounds like it's been a good experience so far so good. But working, working together with other churches that maybe are not.

[00:20:59] I hate to say like doing so well or they're not.

[00:21:03] They're not as vibrant or as vital as they used to be a lot of the older churches in many cities are dwindling in church attendance I mean that's just across the board really due to, you know, the lot of reasons but what what would you say like is that

[00:21:21] something that is a good idea to reach out to some of these churches and how would you go about doing that I mean you kind of just walked into it but yeah I definitely.

[00:21:30] The caveat is always left Lord tells you but I definitely wouldn't just pick up a phone call or pick up a phone and call some church that's got 10 cars in the parking lot and say hey.

[00:21:39] I don't know if you're doing so good. You know, but through the context of relationships, you can have those conversations.

[00:21:48] In your experience what's I mean that's probably wise advice Kyle, don't just say hey it doesn't look like you're doing so great.

[00:21:56] Don't call over there say who's screw it up over there.

[00:22:03] I'm glad to that Terry though because there's the thing in my mind I think you know you've got a space that can see a couple hundred people and we've got.

[00:22:12] You've got a couple of space that can see a couple hundred people, but not that not the people to fill it we've got a couple hundred hundred people but no space.

[00:22:21] It seems like a collaborative thing would be helpful but what are your thoughts on that Terry.

[00:22:26] I mean it sounds like there was a relationship already there with with Kyle and the other fellow and there is already coffee over there too.

[00:22:34] So, but it so it was very conducive and very organic for that to come together.

[00:22:41] Yeah but as far as like hitting someone up that's just, you know, you don't know that's kind of just, you know, in town and that kind of thing.

[00:22:49] I think that's what would look that up in prayer.

[00:22:52] But you know I think a lot of people were probably confronted with that during the pandemic where a lot of churches did drop an attendance and to a large church in Austin they were, I think they sat like about 600 and they dwindled down to, you know from what I understand almost just a couple of

[00:23:09] years ago.

[00:23:10] So, I think that that was a time where pastors needed to be supporting each other. Instead we were kind of throwing mud at each other. Yeah, and that's the sad thing.

[00:23:20] Yeah, against the unmasked and we could have done a better job of supporting each other and we're your team mask or team unmasked guys. No, I'm just kidding.

[00:23:31] Oh, pro choice during that.

[00:23:36] Oh man I got to edit that though. That's for sure.

[00:23:39] I'm just kidding.

[00:23:41] Yeah, I think you nailed it Terry is the, it's the competition mindset, whereas we're really working toward the same goal, the same kingdom.

[00:23:51] And it's hard. I just got to put myself in the other guy's shoes you know it's probably hard for them or the other board or committee shoes whoever's in charge of the church.

[00:24:00] You know, it's really hard to see a church that was once, especially like the older denominational churches like we have several here in our town.

[00:24:08] Like it was once thriving it was once healthy families were there and now it's the families have all gone it's just dwindling.

[00:24:15] It's got to be hard to look at that and say, you know, you know what, maybe I could do something for somebody else type situation but I don't know.

[00:24:23] I think it's really good for pastors to get involved in a pastor's community. And I know the city I'm in they have one where the pastors from, you know, the different churches come together.

[00:24:36] And, you know when you're in that place where people are leaving or your church isn't growing or whatever it is.

[00:24:44] You'd have other pastors there that can identify with you and pray with you and encourage you. Yeah.

[00:24:51] So, you know, what's the pastor's group at all Terry and in Austin.

[00:24:56] Yeah I was in in Flugerville and so we've moved out of town so now I no longer a qualified.

[00:25:03] Oh boy.

[00:25:04] I'm hoping to find, you know, one in our area where we're at now we're now in the city of Radrock which is a little north of Austin and so that's why we dropped the Austin name because

[00:25:15] we migrated a little further from Austin than we were.

[00:25:20] Great Kyle what about you you connect with any pastors in your area at all besides the church that you're collaborating with.

[00:25:28] Yeah, we saw I moved here and didn't know, you know anybody else, you know they say pair shooting in and so I reached out to several churches just to sit down and grab lunch with their pastor.

[00:25:41] I was kind of met with a little bit of an arms distance from a lot, but there was a few that I got a chance to meet with and there's three guys that I semi regularly get together once a month once every couple of months, you know we'll text each other.

[00:26:00] And another guy reached out to me in the next town over and he's got a gathering with all kinds of pastors so I went one time and I just can't go because it's on Tuesdays and I do things with my kids school on Tuesdays it just doesn't work out anymore.

[00:26:14] But that's been cool because I went to one one time and it was really encouraging and they've got guys from there's Catholic priest that goes there.

[00:26:22] And is he in his full get up.

[00:26:24] He is.

[00:26:25] Yeah, I'm preps Presbyterian.

[00:26:27] There is just almost every denomination which is actually really cool and it and the whole idea is we just ate breakfast and we talked and just hung out.

[00:26:37] And we prayed together, there was no book study or agenda or anything. No agenda. Yeah, it was actually really cool so yeah, yeah, you know that with the Calvary family here where we get together once a month that those of us are in the meat it.

[00:26:52] You know, within hours, I guess drive. Yeah, so there's about eight or nine of us that get together once a month and it's really encouraging and some of us have little churches and some of us have big churches. Yeah.

[00:27:04] Yeah, that's so encouraging just to have that kind of a group because you're able to you're able to talk and pray with guys that are in your same shoes and kind of deal with a lot of the same issues and stuff to know you're not alone.

[00:27:16] And I think that's one of the things that especially within Calvary Chapel we can.

[00:27:21] I mean, we have done a good job in the past and it's a little bit fragmented right now but I really look forward to getting more camaraderie unity along around the things that were really passionate about spreading the word of God teaching the word of God,

[00:27:36] and then planning churches, and getting those those fellowship groups because it's just you get you sit down, you can get you talk to someone online that's fine but you sit down with someone you have a coffee or a meal.

[00:27:50] It really is a nice place to fellowship over those things that are important to us as pastors and church planners so

[00:27:58] Brian as an outsider, you know coming into Bradenton where you're at.

[00:28:02] Did you experience some of the same things that I experienced or what was your, what's your experience like.

[00:28:08] Yes.

[00:28:10] Well I knew pastor Carl Dixon he's been on the show before and he's in Sarasota which is about his church is about 40 minutes drive south of us.

[00:28:20] So he it was really helpful to have him there and you know we actually attended the church there for a while before we got started on Sundays, and then also pilgrim Benham pilgrim and Jenny were in in Bradenton East Bradenton from us,

[00:28:36] and they've since moved but we had them there as well so I knew a few people, which was helpful. And it was helpful because they kind of knew the lay of the land like now you're probably pretty familiar with Murfreesboro.

[00:28:50] But yeah back in the beginning we didn't know.

[00:28:54] We knew a few and we knew, knew enough but that's I just encourage anyone who's listening if you're getting into church planting pastoral ministry to not only find a team that can work together with you but also connect with those other like minded churches in the area and

[00:29:10] even not so like minded it's nice to get together and talk about like big picture kingdom issues as long as you know there there's no compromise on the like the fundamentals of the faith type situations.

[00:29:22] So you agree Kyle.

[00:29:26] I concur.

[00:29:28] Yes, I wanted you to wear your your robes and stuff at some point because you do wear robes don't you when you teach.

[00:29:37] No, no.

[00:29:39] Although we had baptisms on Sunday.

[00:29:42] So we did some baptisms on this past Sunday and we did a combined service with so it's Easter this past Sunday and we did combine service with the church here the back to church and I've preached.

[00:29:55] And so they actually had robes that you could get baptized in and so I said no we'll just do we'll just do dark t shirts and we'll be good without the robes.

[00:30:04] Well, one person had you know spontaneously got decided to get baptized after the service and so they have a baptismal in the in the church.

[00:30:13] But it's like way in the back like it's like this show and so I brought a baptismal up to the front of the stage and we did it right there in the front of the stage.

[00:30:22] But this girl got baptized in the robe so they that's my first.

[00:30:26] Did you put the robe on.

[00:30:28] I did not I was on the outside of the tub baptizing but she had the robe on so yeah.

[00:30:33] Have you ever been Terry have you ever been to Israel to the Jordan River where they do the baptisms there.

[00:30:38] Yeah, I actually had the privilege of baptizing a few people there.

[00:30:42] Yeah yeah so they do the robes there too Kyle so I've been there Terry's been there so we've we've done it we wore the robes we were.

[00:30:51] I didn't want to admit to this but I also was baptized in the Jordan in a white robe.

[00:30:55] What.

[00:30:56] Clark Van Wick I don't know if you're familiar with Clark Van Wick.

[00:30:59] Yeah, yeah of course yeah.

[00:31:00] And to make it like ties to me in my goodness you were holding that in man you were holding that in you just you didn't want to brag.

[00:31:08] No I didn't want to flex.

[00:31:10] You know Chuck Smith has a little plaque there that says you know thanks for your contribution or whatever.

[00:31:17] Yeah.

[00:31:18] Yeah.

[00:31:19] You're going to get your plaque there.

[00:31:22] You got to you got to you got to plant more churches if you want that hits there's like 1500 churches out of Calvary Chapel now that he started.

[00:31:31] Yeah, well.

[00:31:33] Yeah I'm a little behind but I got some time.

[00:31:35] Yeah you do you do Kyle.

[00:31:37] 1000 churches in 10 years.

[00:31:39] Yeah you personally do that.

[00:31:41] Yeah, we're working on it.

[00:31:43] We'll get going here in a second but I wanted to talk about something before we leave that you brought up at the beginning or before we started recording Kyle and that was the importance of discipleship and training when it comes to these young guys that want to get out there and in church plant so you want to kind of

[00:31:59] use that topic and I would love to hear what Terry has to say just with his experience on you know how do we how do we create these how does how do we help these guys and girls many times and these church planning teams be prepared for the ministry ahead.

[00:32:18] Yeah, I think kind of the trap that church planters myself included can fall into is that I've got to do everything by myself. And so they spend all of their time organizing everything and to a certain extent when you're just starting out it is just you and your wife and your kids but

[00:32:37] as soon as you start amassing some people that's quickly identifying those that you can build with and those you can build on and start training them to take over wholesale wholesale areas of ministry.

[00:32:49] Craig Rochelle said on there for get it he said if someone can do something to 60% of your capacity and give it to him.

[00:32:56] I'm like 60% that seems crazy. So but they're never going to get to the hundred unless you give it to him, you know, and so learning the hard way of not doing that holding on to too much.

[00:33:05] Yeah, and their hundred might be like way better than our hundred to that's the thing we didn't as a thing I learned is yeah is I'm, I think I'm pretty good at a lot of things but that's just it I'm pretty decent at a lot of things, but there's people in the church, or people that want to help plan a church that are going to have the

[00:33:22] expertise and the ability that are will far surpass ours you know it's like would you rather have something done mediocre 100% or really great 60%.

[00:33:33] Well and the challenge is when they start doing things a little bit differently than you would. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[00:33:40] Because then you're essentially saying hey do exactly how hard to do it. That's hard. You're not creating a leader you're creating a follower at that point.

[00:33:46] Do you do that Kyle do you just bite your tongue. I do and my wife is like she's like, I'm like just let him go it's not the end of the world if they're going to ruin something then of course yeah yeah but if it's not going to ruin it I'll just let

[00:33:59] him. You know what I do that with I do that with the sound guy. I do that was I'd have to bite my tongue because I'm like man that because I don't know what it is maybe it's OCD or something like that needs to be louder or quieter or this turned up or that turned down but

[00:34:14] I just leave it. I leave it glory to God. Yeah, Terry what about you was.

[00:34:22] My wife Christian we talk about that a lot how we really have to die to things you know yeah yeah, you are interesting people with the personality and skills and gifts that God has given them and it's always different than what you would do or how you would do it.

[00:34:38] It might even be a little messier or sloppier than how you would do it you know, and you know, you just have to kind of die to it.

[00:34:49] You know okay I wouldn't do it that way but you know God's using them and God's growing them. Yeah, and you want to give them wings to fly and not click their wings and micro manage.

[00:35:00] Yeah, that's it as micro management is what it really comes down to and that's you're not going to your ministry is not going to grow your church isn't going to grow. So I need some advice let me give you a scenario and I'll get your advice Terry and Kyle.

[00:35:14] And we're going through this right now at our church because as I mentioned children's ministry has been amazing there's a gal named Susan who her husband is one of the elders here and they've been here since day one.

[00:35:26] And she does a phenomenal job at Children's Ministry she's an educator.

[00:35:31] And so she's, she's very good at she does the curriculum and everything. But now that the church is growing. It's difficult for her to scale with management of volunteers and all this different technology stuff like that.

[00:35:43] So anyway long story short.

[00:35:46] I, she said, is there someone that could take over to help scale the Children's Ministry to that next step.

[00:35:54] And so we've got a guy, one of the pastors actually here. There's three of us me and Cody and Josiah but Cody is going to oversee it and take it over.

[00:36:05] And so my, my advice will be how do we make that transition to where she doesn't feel like all of her efforts because she's very particular but very good at what she's done.

[00:36:18] It's one of those things where it might be done a little bit different and not as fine tuned. Because you know when you're growing you have to kind of, you have to have Children's Ministry at this first service to that's one of the things so.

[00:36:31] But what would you say what advice would you give me as a as a lead pastor in navigating this scenario that I just described.

[00:36:40] Yeah, and I know that it can be a little touchy with someone who's handing it off and wanting to be honored by keeping things going with what she's set in motion.

[00:36:51] But at the same time the new people coming they need to have that freedom to, you know, be led of the spirit, you know, and maybe take things in a different direction.

[00:37:03] I know when I hand out the church one day.

[00:37:06] I don't expect them to do things exactly the way I do it or teach exactly how I teach.

[00:37:14] But I know that God will use whoever that person is. I mean I think a good example and I know it's not Children's Ministry but I think the point is the same like when David Goose took over the church for Ricky Ryan, I mean you can think of two different people.

[00:37:30] Super Pentecostal you know that's in Santa Barbara right Santa coverage. Yeah, exactly. And then you have, you know, someone who's not as you know how would I describe it was just like more on the Pentecostal side.

[00:37:47] And then David Goose is probably more on the scholarly side and for sure it's very curious as to how that transition would work you know because they're but you know obviously David didn't follow Ricky's, you know, model, and the church has done quite well from what

[00:38:04] I mean, yeah. Yeah, so I think just encouraging that gal that you know things may go in a different way in a different direction. But thank you so much for all that you've invested in the kids and the door still open for you to do that.

[00:38:21] Yeah, I think that's a good point the door still open like it's we still want this. A Susan obviously great part of our church and in leadership and everything but still having her involved but also given the freedom to that next person to be able to to navigate the new new territory.

[00:38:40] One of the advantages you have is that she's realizes that she's hit her ceiling. Yeah, exactly. Yeah, it's a great. She's great.

[00:38:48] Yeah, if she didn't know then it could be weird with Cody coming in but she knows and so you know Cody's willing to step in and so it's her kind of dying, dying to self a little bit which sounds like she's already doing. Yeah, yeah, totally realizing that she can't go any further and so

[00:39:04] although it hasn't happened yet so it's isn't but that's the thing it's like when the guys turning up the piano and it's over overpowering their people singing it's like I want to go back there and tell them to turn it down but

[00:39:17] I get it and then I do your sound guy not not to listen.

[00:39:25] This is coming again on this I'm going to give him this episode I'm like here this is a good episode I want you to listen to this we have some good content so no it's multiple sound guys that's the that's the deal so

[00:39:37] and I'll say this I think you you need to as senior pastors I'm very relational just by nature you know and so you earn you put money in the bank relationally with people as you spend time with them and you love them well so

[00:39:52] so you can cash out and you can draw when you need to when it's a little bit of him and say hey look you need to you need to turn it down he doesn't he doesn't take it as personal attack because he knows you he knows your heart but if you only time you talk to him it's like hey turn that down yeah

[00:40:07] yeah and I don't want to be a micromanager either that's the thing I don't want to be the guy that's always you know involved in everything although in some to some extent I am the lead pastor of the church so there's involvement but it's just that

[00:40:21] thing we talked about giving them that that freedom to do as the Lord's leading.

[00:40:27] Good alright final words guys Terry let's hear from you by the way I want to remember to say we're going to be meeting on call what's the date again.

[00:40:37] May 18 may 18 am to 3pm 8am to 3pm lunch is included or snacks or what are we doing.

[00:40:45] Yeah well we're going to include breakfast.

[00:40:48] Presentation lobster.

[00:40:51] Oh wow yeah we're still talking about lunch so yeah.

[00:40:56] But yeah that's right but it's a free event free event yeah I'll be there Kyle will be there Terry will be there will not only be talking about church planting but we'll also have some sharing time and q&a's and stuff like that so really really valuable time to get together if you can make it but Terry give us some last words last thoughts.

[00:41:17] Yeah well you know church planting is probably one of the most fulfilling things that you can do.

[00:41:26] It's also one of the most challenging things you can do and so if you you're a church planner just want to encourage you to hang in there and take advantage of things like cultivate that we're there to come alongside of you to help you to see that you have the proper mentorship and training

[00:41:47] and to help you decide if you have.

[00:41:50] Amen Kyle what do you got to say.

[00:41:53] That's it thank you we've we've covered it did it.

[00:41:56] Cultivate is it's worth it's great.

[00:41:59] It's great.

[00:42:01] Awesome well thanks for being on the show guys I'm sure we'll have you back for more I've got some questions about a lot of different things and Terry was great having you on the show and just your expertise and what you're doing God bless you Kyle God bless you.

[00:42:17] We'll see you next month in Texas.

[00:42:20] Yeah I'll take care.

[00:42:22] Alright God bless guys.