The Greeks – Jeff Gipe, Stephan Calhoun, & Dan Vorm

[00:00:00] Alright, welcome to the Cultivate Church Planting Podcast. Exciting episode today and I'm back with my friend.

[00:00:06] Partner in crime, I'm looking at Jeff Gipe.

[00:00:10] Why did that take you so long to say your name?

[00:00:14] What, friend or Jeff Gipe?

[00:00:18] Yes.

[00:00:22] We're back with Jeff and we're actually in Tennessee.

[00:00:25] That's right. We're at my home church, fellowship Bible church. So this is a dueling podcast.

[00:00:32] Nice.

[00:00:33] Podcast. You said podcast.

[00:00:38] Okay, so it's starting off really good.

[00:00:40] Starting off in the wrong. Right foot I guess.

[00:00:44] Anyway, do you want to introduce our guests?

[00:00:46] Why don't you introduce our guests because they're friends of Jeff. So let me tell you how this kind of came about.

[00:00:50] I'm up here visiting Jeff just because I like him and he's my friend.

[00:00:56] He invited me but primarily to meet up with, I've been calling him the Greeks for months now.

[00:01:03] I knew I was coming here but turns out they're actually not Greek.

[00:01:09] So Jeff, why don't you introduce our friends here and we'll get into the podcast.

[00:01:15] Yeah, so of course I just got back from Greece where I got to meet Stephen which I'll introduce in a minute.

[00:01:23] And I traveled with my friend Dan Vorm. Dan is with an organization called Hellenic Ministries in Greece.

[00:01:32] It's been there for decades and Dan actually served as a missionary there in the late 80s, early 90s.

[00:01:39] And looking at him and being in Greece with him you would think he was Greek.

[00:01:44] Yeah, he has a nice tan.

[00:01:46] He's got a very nice tan.

[00:01:47] He's listening to the audio here.

[00:01:48] And when he eats euros, oh, just like a Greek.

[00:01:52] Just like a Greek.

[00:01:53] Just like a Greek.

[00:01:54] I'll call him Gyros. Is that bad?

[00:01:57] It's bad.

[00:02:01] But also with us is Stephen Calhoun and Stephen is the appointed church planter there in the beautiful city or in the beautiful country of Greece.

[00:02:12] And he's been with Hellenic Ministries for 17 years.

[00:02:16] 17 years.

[00:02:16] Yeah, so he's an American and he looks American but you've been there almost half your life.

[00:02:22] So you are partially...

[00:02:23] Well thank you.

[00:02:24] I'm glad that you think I'm that nice.

[00:02:26] Yeah.

[00:02:30] So glad you guys are here.

[00:02:32] As I mentioned, I was able to spend time with Stephen in Greece and just had a great time with him and Dan.

[00:02:42] And God's doing some amazing things and that's what we're here to talk about.

[00:02:45] Yeah, that is what we want to talk about.

[00:02:47] We were talking a little bit before the show just with Stephen about what's going on in the ministry there.

[00:02:54] And just amazing stuff, exciting especially from a church planting perspective.

[00:02:59] And that's kind of what we're all about.

[00:03:02] So Stephen why don't you give just a quick summary of the ministry, what you're doing and we'll get into some questions following that.

[00:03:10] Sure.

[00:03:11] So to give a slight correction there, Jeff, I'm not actually a church planter.

[00:03:17] I'm a wannabe.

[00:03:19] I get to walk alongside our church planters.

[00:03:25] And mentor, coach, we've used those terms earlier today and I kind of have filled both roles.

[00:03:32] Also we could add in recruiter and equipper in there as well.

[00:03:36] As we really are looking to take young people on mission, expose them to the need in their country,

[00:03:42] help them find their gifting, their calling and then journeying with them to find their kingdom assignment.

[00:03:51] So yeah that's really in a summary what we do.

[00:03:57] What my wife likes to describe, I'm a pastor of the pastors.

[00:04:01] My teammate David and I consider ourselves the Barnabas' for the Pauls.

[00:04:07] Very cool.

[00:04:08] Nice, I like that.

[00:04:10] Hellenic ministry, what's the main purpose of the ministry right now?

[00:04:15] Well we've actually, I would say that our purpose has always been since the inception is to minister like Jesus ministers.

[00:04:26] So Jesus always ministered to felt needs.

[00:04:30] He always planted the gospel wherever he went.

[00:04:34] He made disciples and then he sent people out on mission.

[00:04:37] And so we're engaged in those four streams if you will, in probably 15 different types of ministry or contexts.

[00:04:50] Church planting is just one of those 15.

[00:04:52] Yet at the same time every ministry work that we do are in desire is to see a community planted as a result of that.

[00:05:03] So there's a ministry that you're doing and why don't you talk about this for a few minutes.

[00:05:07] It's called Joshua, what was it called?

[00:05:10] It was called Operation Joshua.

[00:05:12] Operation Joshua, Dan why don't you run over what that ministry is because this is an amazing thing.

[00:05:16] And this is something Jeff was talking with me about before I came here.

[00:05:19] He's like man you got to hear what these guys are doing over in Greece and what this ministry is doing.

[00:05:24] And this is one of the things that you told me about but Dan why don't you run through what that is?

[00:05:29] Sure, yeah Operation Joshua is actually a Bible distribution program that started what's to do in 2004 I think.

[00:05:39] So it started really with the Olympics way back then when they were in Greece.

[00:05:44] And the idea was to go to the islands.

[00:05:46] You know a lot of the Greeks were leaving their homes or renting them out making some money.

[00:05:50] And if not making money by renting their house at least they wanted to get out of Athens

[00:05:54] when the whole world was coming to Athens.

[00:05:56] Traffic is bad enough I think.

[00:05:58] So when you had the Olympics it's like I'm out of here you know.

[00:06:01] So a lot of them have island homes or an island heritage of some sort.

[00:06:06] And of course on the mainland as well.

[00:06:08] So there was the beginning of Operation Joshua really at that time was known as Operation Gideon.

[00:06:14] I'm not sure why we have these names but they kind of fit for us.

[00:06:17] So for a couple of years 2004 and then two years later there was an island

[00:06:22] out reached to 80 of the mostly inhabited islands that are in Greece.

[00:06:27] And it was threefold, it was Bible distribution, it was some sort of evangelism.

[00:06:32] Some kind of effort of maybe you know singing on a street corner and gaining attention

[00:06:36] or passing out flyers that kind of thing.

[00:06:38] And then a few days of concentrated prayer walking over the islands.

[00:06:42] So that's kind of where the inception started for Operation Joshua

[00:06:45] which came along then as a challenge from our founder, Costas Macriese.

[00:06:50] We can talk about him later if you like but he started the ministry there in 1979, 80.

[00:06:55] It was a family run ministry basically.

[00:06:58] The family had been some of the first modern missionaries

[00:07:01] from the modern evangelical church to go out as missionaries, foreign missionaries.

[00:07:05] And they ended up in Irian Jai Indonesia,

[00:07:08] the opposite side of the island for where Papua is which many of us have heard about.

[00:07:12] So it's there in the Stone Age tribes, they worked for a number of years as a family,

[00:07:17] 20 years almost, 17 years.

[00:07:20] Worked with some people, old timers like me, they would have read a book years ago called Peace Child.

[00:07:27] They're actually in that, the Salim Macriese family, Greeks are actually in that story.

[00:07:32] And so they worked closely with the same mission that Don Richardson and his family worked with.

[00:07:38] Anyway, so then through sickness after 16, 17 years they ended up coming to the states.

[00:07:44] The Lord healed Costas from a very significant disease which he should have died from naturally

[00:07:50] and they ended up back in her home country of Greece.

[00:07:53] So the Lord gave Costas 25 more years and that's where Hellenic ministries came from then

[00:07:59] out of that family and has grown since then to about 100 missionaries and staff.

[00:08:04] All that to say then you have this summer campaign that grew out of Operation Gideon back in 2004

[00:08:10] and it became after reaching, passing out many, many Bibles on the islands,

[00:08:16] they thought well you know there's the mainland, let's not exclude the mainland.

[00:08:19] And so outside of Athens and Thessaloniki the goal has been to get to hand deliver

[00:08:25] a modern language New Testament which is kind of a rare thing in an Orthodox home.

[00:08:30] If they have a Bible at all it's going to be something that's classical or Quine Greek

[00:08:35] so it's Shakespearean to us or even further away, very hard to understand,

[00:08:39] not a heart language by any means.

[00:08:41] And so the goal was to get a New Testament, the Motechi which is the modern language

[00:08:47] into every home in Greece outside of Athens and Thessaloniki.

[00:08:50] And by God's grace over the course of 18 summers with the help of many people from around the world

[00:08:56] Hellenic ministers is able to do so.

[00:08:58] How many Bibles have you distributed? How many homes? Just violin.

[00:09:03] What do you say?

[00:09:04] So as of 2023 at the conclusion we've reached over one and a half million homes in Greece.

[00:09:10] Wow.

[00:09:11] One and a half million, I mean how many homes is that?

[00:09:15] Actually what is the population of Greece?

[00:09:16] So the population is actually declining.

[00:09:20] So in the last decade it's gone from 11 million to just over 10 million population.

[00:09:26] That's incredible and it's interesting what you said about the translation,

[00:09:31] the modern translation because those of us who've been reading, studying the Bible

[00:09:34] and those listening to the podcast know that the New Testament was written in Greek

[00:09:41] so we say oh yeah Greek and then the Old Testament Hebrew and Airmake.

[00:09:44] But what we fail to understand is that that Greek is so far removed from the modern Greek.

[00:09:51] Some similarities, I mean a modern Greek speaker will be able to read it

[00:09:55] but the meaning, you know language evolves over time

[00:09:58] and it's actually simplified some so it's lost some cases and some endings over time.

[00:10:02] Well try reading the King James version even.

[00:10:04] Yeah that's right.

[00:10:05] For young people they're reading that.

[00:10:07] It's like a couple hundred years.

[00:10:10] Right.

[00:10:10] Right.

[00:10:12] Well so along with that it's a great success.

[00:10:20] We're looking at this number of over a million homes have now a Bible in their possession.

[00:10:26] But what's next?

[00:10:28] Like once you go so why don't you talk to that Steven?

[00:10:32] Yeah absolutely.

[00:10:33] Is the work done?

[00:10:34] You can now just relax.

[00:10:37] Go to the beach.

[00:10:39] Have a dry road.

[00:10:40] There's Pinoa and all the beach.

[00:10:42] Get the oil in the Pinoa and get the beach.

[00:10:45] That's right.

[00:10:47] You know I would say that you know the work is just starting for us.

[00:10:51] You know that's for me this is what I was enduring the last 20 years for

[00:10:55] to be able to get to see this moment where we start moving into the next phase.

[00:10:59] And you know the next phase is looking at homes that have received those new

[00:11:05] testaments that are open.

[00:11:08] You know if we look at the passages in Luke the person of peace looking for those

[00:11:13] homes where people want to know more.

[00:11:18] They want to know God.

[00:11:19] They want to study the scriptures.

[00:11:21] And you know for one reason or another haven't had that opportunity to do so.

[00:11:26] And so we're as we move into the the Ecos experience now we've we're launching

[00:11:32] the Ecos network at the same time as the Ecos summer experiences where we're

[00:11:37] inviting teams for foreigners to work together alongside Greeks for one week

[00:11:43] to go on into one location.

[00:11:47] And this is going to really blow your mind.

[00:11:50] So I know a lot of traditional you know mission projects you might go

[00:11:55] and build something or you might or like we did for 20 years almost give out Bible

[00:11:59] something tangible that you can see and measure at the end of the day.

[00:12:04] What we're encouraging people to do is to come and to be.

[00:12:08] So what does that mean?

[00:12:10] It means we're not necessarily doing any kind of open air evangelism

[00:12:15] or giving out tracks but we're asking people to go and have conversations

[00:12:20] or to take those natural conversations and see if they can extend them 30 seconds.

[00:12:27] And that's very easy to do in Greece because Greeks are very friendly

[00:12:31] and they love to talk.

[00:12:33] And what about so if I don't speak Greek can I come over as an English speaker

[00:12:40] and you have translators that go or what's the do people speak to speak

[00:12:43] English there in the country?

[00:12:45] Absolutely. So you know certainly there are some communities where

[00:12:50] English isn't as common or readily spoken but you know any of the places that

[00:12:56] you're going to go in the course of your day if you're going to a bakery

[00:13:00] to get breakfast or to get a cup of coffee many times the people that are

[00:13:04] serving you have at least a decent level of English that you can start

[00:13:10] a conversation and what's interesting is that you're not going to be alone.

[00:13:15] We're partnering you with local Greeks who can be there to help facilitate

[00:13:20] if there's a need for translation or if you get stuck or the other person

[00:13:24] gets stuck they can kind of jump in and help.

[00:13:26] Have you found it to be pretty fruitful as far as like people coming over

[00:13:30] and having these just being kind of sounds like my kind of mission trip?

[00:13:34] Yeah.

[00:13:35] You mean I don't have to build a school or anything?

[00:13:38] Yeah.

[00:13:39] Drink coffee?

[00:13:40] Well, basically.

[00:13:41] The beauty is that you know it's something that can work for any age

[00:13:46] because you're just being yourself so if you're coming along and you know

[00:13:52] maybe you have a few more gray hairs you can go in and sit in the coffee shops

[00:13:56] and just have conversations with people because that's very natural

[00:13:58] in the context with Greeks to go to the coffee shops have conversations.

[00:14:03] If you're on the younger side like my kids who love to throw frisbee

[00:14:09] or kick around a soccer ball, you know groups like that can go and find a park

[00:14:14] and just start engaging with the people that are there doing what they do.

[00:14:20] So it's very much a...

[00:14:22] Dan just returned from doing this right?

[00:14:26] Yeah we did.

[00:14:27] Let me back up just a sec when we talk about Ecos.

[00:14:30] We're talking about a Greek word which means household or it could be family.

[00:14:35] I was going to actually ask but I didn't want to sound dumb.

[00:14:37] Yeah.

[00:14:39] For listeners, can you please explain what Ecos means?

[00:14:43] Not for me and Jeff.

[00:14:44] Yeah, you know.

[00:14:45] Well listen, fill in what I miss.

[00:14:47] So in modern Greek you would say it...

[00:14:53] Let me spell it in English.

[00:14:55] O-I-K-O-S.

[00:14:56] And so if a person has studied Quine Greek, most likely if they're here in the states

[00:15:02] or in the Western world they would say it as Oikos.

[00:15:04] Isn't that a yogurt?

[00:15:06] Yeah it actually is.

[00:15:07] Great yogurt.

[00:15:08] Yeah right.

[00:15:09] Right.

[00:15:09] This is yogurt evangelism.

[00:15:11] Yeah.

[00:15:12] Who would have thought?

[00:15:14] I like that.

[00:15:16] That's true.

[00:15:17] That's right.

[00:15:18] So you have your grocery store.

[00:15:19] There you go.

[00:15:20] Okay so Oikos yogurt, huh?

[00:15:22] I'm already supporting the cause.

[00:15:23] There you are.

[00:15:24] There you are.

[00:15:25] So the way you say it in modern Greek is the vowels are said a little bit differently.

[00:15:29] It's called Oikos.

[00:15:30] And Oikos meaning household and that's the whole idea is to gain entrance into,

[00:15:35] you know, to start home Bible studies out of which can grow,

[00:15:39] well start relationships upon which we can build the trust

[00:15:43] that can carry the weight of the gospel.

[00:15:45] And then that results in, you know,

[00:15:47] home fellowships and home churches.

[00:15:49] Lord willing.

[00:15:51] So yeah so this summer we started that.

[00:15:54] And that was a big question I think in our,

[00:15:56] in our ecosphere of Hellenic ministries and those who know us

[00:15:59] and are aware of the Greek ministry and so forth.

[00:16:03] It was kind of like well what's next?

[00:16:05] You know it's got to be something big right?

[00:16:07] Because Hellenic ministries is a,

[00:16:09] I like to say it's a small mission that has an outsized impact.

[00:16:13] Over the years that's been true.

[00:16:15] Started by a visionary and maintained by his son,

[00:16:20] who's the president of Jonathan, who's also a visionary.

[00:16:23] And what do visionaries do?

[00:16:24] They do, you know, they do visionary type things right?

[00:16:27] And the rest was kind of hold on by our fingernails if we can.

[00:16:31] And so, you know, getting a Bible into every rural household in Greece

[00:16:35] is like what in the world?

[00:16:37] Who does that?

[00:16:38] You know but God was kind and with the help of so many people

[00:16:41] around the world both financially and as foot soldiers on the ground

[00:16:45] it happened.

[00:16:46] So the question for us this past year has been okay, what's next?

[00:16:50] And I'm so proud of Jonathan and the team

[00:16:53] because they were willing to be spirit dependent

[00:16:56] and just go you know it's about building relationships.

[00:17:00] It's about getting into households and going into vernis

[00:17:03] and just taking conversations 30 seconds longer

[00:17:07] to see what the Lord might do

[00:17:09] and how we can build relationships.

[00:17:11] So yes we had 12, we started this year.

[00:17:13] Ecos 24 we called it.

[00:17:16] And we had 12 teams that went out to various corners,

[00:17:19] a couple of the islands and then various areas of Greece.

[00:17:23] And just for the purpose of you know going out to eat,

[00:17:26] getting to know people, going back to eat the same place.

[00:17:28] Kind of like if you went to the park you went to the park again.

[00:17:31] Where can people reach you guys as far as getting connected

[00:17:34] to the ministry either with support or possibly visiting?

[00:17:39] Sure, one place.

[00:17:40] And asking for a friend.

[00:17:41] Yeah absolutely.

[00:17:45] Well we've just launched a new website called Ecosnetwork.net

[00:17:50] where you can learn about both the network

[00:17:53] and about the summer experience

[00:17:55] and how you can get involved.

[00:17:57] There's an email listed on the website that you can reach out to us.

[00:18:02] And then if you want to see the organization

[00:18:05] that were part of Hellenic Ministries

[00:18:06] you can see kind of the breadth

[00:18:08] and all the various different aspects

[00:18:11] of how we minister in country including the Ecosnetwork.

[00:18:16] And that's Hellenicministries.com.

[00:18:18] Dot org, dot org yes.

[00:18:20] Correct.

[00:18:21] And after just visiting I have to tell you

[00:18:25] it's such a robust ministry

[00:18:28] and it's so beautiful and getting to meet

[00:18:30] I mean there are so many different levels

[00:18:33] that we could talk about with the refugees and all of that.

[00:18:38] Yes.

[00:18:39] Talk about Christianity and the potential for church planting

[00:18:44] within the country of Greece.

[00:18:47] I mean you talk about Bible distribution,

[00:18:51] that's goal one getting the word of God out in people's hands

[00:18:53] in their household that they can understand and read.

[00:18:56] And then you talk about building those relationships

[00:18:58] having those conversations bringing teams over.

[00:19:01] And it's probably cool for the local people to see

[00:19:04] the different teams from different places come over

[00:19:06] and talk with them and that sort of thing.

[00:19:09] But ultimately we're talking about,

[00:19:10] and this takes a lot longer we were talking earlier

[00:19:13] about the process of church planting,

[00:19:15] we want people to be, if they're not in a church

[00:19:18] where they're being taught the word of God

[00:19:21] and that sort of thing.

[00:19:24] What is the cultural feeling of Christianity

[00:19:28] and how can we get more churches so that more people

[00:19:31] can be involved in a healthy fellowship?

[00:19:33] That's a great question Brian.

[00:19:36] I would say that 95% of the people in Greece

[00:19:40] would consider themselves to be Christian.

[00:19:44] And so one of the big challenges is that

[00:19:49] what does it mean to be a Christian?

[00:19:51] Right, so for most to be Greek

[00:19:54] means that you're baptized as an infant

[00:19:58] and therefore you're a Christian.

[00:20:01] But for many there isn't a personal relationship

[00:20:05] and that's I think where we try to encourage people

[00:20:09] as you look into scripture

[00:20:12] you realize that there's so much more

[00:20:15] to Christianity than just a baptism

[00:20:20] or a wedding or the Easter experience

[00:20:25] where community is coming together.

[00:20:28] But we don't necessarily,

[00:20:31] maybe we understand what we're celebrating

[00:20:33] but we haven't experienced it.

[00:20:35] Yeah, it hasn't become personal in that experiential sense.

[00:20:39] So that's starting communities where you're meeting together

[00:20:44] and it's been, talk about that process.

[00:20:47] Like how does it go from, here we are

[00:20:50] we want to gather together with other believers

[00:20:54] what we want you to believe first

[00:20:56] to have a personal relationship with Christ.

[00:20:58] But how does it go from there to being a church

[00:21:01] and maybe before you even do that

[00:21:02] describe kind of what the differences might be

[00:21:05] for our listeners of a church

[00:21:07] in the American sense that we're used to

[00:21:10] and then what a church would look like over there.

[00:21:13] If I could just back up one step further beyond that

[00:21:16] just if any of your listeners would be considering

[00:21:20] an eco summer experience

[00:21:22] I just want to give a testimony to the value

[00:21:24] that foreign teams can bring.

[00:21:27] So we, in preparation for eco's

[00:21:31] we were doing a lot of test cases

[00:21:33] to see is our theory right?

[00:21:36] Is it our theory or is it the Lord leading us?

[00:21:40] And so we had a foreign team

[00:21:42] that was serving in one of our communities in the north

[00:21:45] and in that particular community

[00:21:48] we are ministering predominantly to refugees

[00:21:52] but our vision there is really to impact

[00:21:55] the entire community including the Greeks.

[00:21:57] And so for the last year I have been praying

[00:22:00] and physically walking and putting myself out there

[00:22:04] trying to engage with the Greek neighbors

[00:22:06] in the community with very little results

[00:22:11] and no fruit to show for it.

[00:22:13] But back in May we had a team of 20 young people

[00:22:17] lively, joyful, energetic believers

[00:22:21] coming just to serve the Lord and serve

[00:22:23] Jeff in that group?

[00:22:24] He said lively and young.

[00:22:29] And I tell you they were in Greece

[00:22:34] serving with other ministries

[00:22:35] and so we only had them for two days with us

[00:22:38] but I tell you the 48 hours that they were with us

[00:22:42] just even in the first few hours

[00:22:44] their presence in our space

[00:22:48] attracted the attention of the neighbors

[00:22:49] in a way that we have not been able to attract it in a year

[00:22:52] and conversations started to happen

[00:22:55] between neighbors and these foreigners

[00:22:59] because the curiosity of why are all these young people here

[00:23:02] and why are they so happy

[00:23:03] and you know that's a big contrast

[00:23:08] to what people are accustomed to in their daily life

[00:23:11] and so it ended up opening the door for us

[00:23:14] to start connecting with the neighbors

[00:23:15] which is an answer to prayer.

[00:23:17] I love that because a lot of times

[00:23:19] you think about short-term mission trips

[00:23:21] because we were on the mission field

[00:23:22] our family was there for 10 years

[00:23:24] we had tons of trips of short-term teams

[00:23:27] and some are helpful and some are

[00:23:30] but I love the model because

[00:23:32] not only is it simple

[00:23:34] as far as what the goal is

[00:23:36] but it actually does benefit

[00:23:38] the local church and local believers

[00:23:41] there on the ground.

[00:23:44] Great stuff.

[00:23:46] So how does that go then from those experiences

[00:23:49] those conversations, those relationships

[00:23:50] into a church that wasn't there before?

[00:23:54] Sure.

[00:23:55] Yeah well I would say that

[00:23:57] so we're still experiencing that

[00:23:59] in that particular community of seeing how the Lord

[00:24:01] is going to lead those relationships

[00:24:03] but it starts with just the open door for conversation

[00:24:07] and our life expression

[00:24:12] just living the gospel

[00:24:15] has more of an impact on people's lives

[00:24:17] than we realize

[00:24:18] and that was what the neighbors said

[00:24:21] man we see something different about you guys

[00:24:23] and we see life

[00:24:25] and we want that.

[00:24:28] How do you get it?

[00:24:30] And so we're just starting to have those conversations

[00:24:33] with these people

[00:24:34] it's a journey

[00:24:36] but what I'll go back to is

[00:24:40] the first community that we planted

[00:24:42] we're now in our 10th year

[00:24:44] of our lead planters being on the ground

[00:24:48] we launched the church about seven years ago

[00:24:52] and to put in perspective

[00:24:55] we're ministering, it's a mixed community

[00:24:58] different people groups

[00:24:59] and our core values

[00:25:02] we're very inclusive in our community building

[00:25:07] which is a little bit

[00:25:08] in contrast to the Greek culture

[00:25:10] which is very community oriented

[00:25:12] but they tend to be very exclusive

[00:25:15] in their community circles.

[00:25:16] You've got to fit into their particular group.

[00:25:19] Exactly.

[00:25:19] And so in their sense of community

[00:25:21] is very strong within their circles

[00:25:24] but it's very counter cultural

[00:25:26] for them to step outside of that circle

[00:25:28] or to invite someone who's outside

[00:25:30] into that circle.

[00:25:33] And so with that dynamic

[00:25:37] we were able to minister to the gospel to everyone

[00:25:40] and that ability to reach people groups

[00:25:45] that wouldn't normally be together

[00:25:48] really opens their eyes

[00:25:50] but I'll just kind of walk you through

[00:25:52] the timeline that we talked about earlier.

[00:25:54] Yeah, and talking about just to interject there

[00:25:56] because we talked about this earlier

[00:25:57] there are people groups that you're talking about

[00:26:01] you have the local Greek people

[00:26:03] but you also have a lot of refugees

[00:26:06] and kind of a migrant community there as well

[00:26:10] from different countries surrounding

[00:26:11] that are not necessarily as embraced

[00:26:14] by the local culture or the local people

[00:26:16] correct.

[00:26:17] As we would like

[00:26:18] and then there's also the, what was the other group?

[00:26:20] The Roma community.

[00:26:21] The Roma community which would be

[00:26:23] is it Gypsy community?

[00:26:25] Yes.

[00:26:25] Yeah, which are also not very popular I presume so.

[00:26:30] That's correct.

[00:26:30] But yeah the gospel is going out to all these groups

[00:26:33] and you have ministry happening within each of these groups.

[00:26:37] So just to set a little bit of the background

[00:26:39] that I kind of was up to speed on earlier

[00:26:42] so go ahead go on to what you do now.

[00:26:45] Yeah, so just in that particular location

[00:26:48] we're set up as a coffee shop on the ground floor

[00:26:51] and we have other floors in the space

[00:26:53] that we use for different purposes

[00:26:55] but the coffee shop is our entryway into the community

[00:26:58] and how we engage in relationship

[00:27:00] and how we were able to serve the different communities

[00:27:04] that we find in that neighborhood.

[00:27:07] And you know it's through the serving

[00:27:10] of the marginalized of the community

[00:27:12] that the Greek neighbors have started to see

[00:27:16] already, you know, our team had a reputation

[00:27:19] of there's something different about this place

[00:27:24] and the difference that they would describe is

[00:27:28] we just feel love.

[00:27:30] Every time we walk by this place

[00:27:32] we just feel this overpowering sense of love.

[00:27:35] Beautiful.

[00:27:36] And they couldn't describe it, they couldn't explain it

[00:27:40] but that love drew them into the doors

[00:27:43] just to have a coffee

[00:27:45] and then as soon as another neighbor would come

[00:27:48] they'd run out.

[00:27:49] Yeah, you know.

[00:27:51] So Dan, you were, talk about that a little bit

[00:27:55] because there's a little bit of hesitancy

[00:27:57] on the part of the local community

[00:27:59] to want to kind of come into these doors

[00:28:01] of this Christian, quote unquote Christian group

[00:28:04] that we're looking at here.

[00:28:06] Well it's a state church context

[00:28:08] and there's a lot of society pressure

[00:28:11] to be an upstanding member of the church

[00:28:15] and therefore the community.

[00:28:18] So that does provide quite a pushback.

[00:28:22] You have the local priest often

[00:28:24] who's going to be against anybody else who's coming in.

[00:28:27] You know, when we live there

[00:28:30] a couple things happen that made me really kind of

[00:28:33] open eyes a little bit to that pressure.

[00:28:35] Being a foreigner I didn't necessarily feel that at first

[00:28:38] but we were trying to do some Bible studies

[00:28:42] and we had guitars

[00:28:42] and we'd invite people in and so forth.

[00:28:45] Not a lot of people but we had some people coming to our home

[00:28:48] in a certain suburb there in Athens

[00:28:52] and one day we got a flyer under our door

[00:28:56] and the flyer was from the local priest

[00:28:58] and he was over the whole area there

[00:29:01] and it said, for the start of that by saying

[00:29:04] beware of young people with guitars

[00:29:08] who are telling you a different gospel.

[00:29:11] It's scary.

[00:29:13] It wasn't the 60s but it was similar to the day.

[00:29:17] In their mind it's kind of a threat

[00:29:22] and it's going against what we would see as a hostile kind of thing.

[00:29:29] Although you weren't, you were obviously just biblical Christians.

[00:29:34] Anything that's outside, to your average Orthodox person

[00:29:38] who's raised in the church and so forth

[00:29:39] anything that's outside of Orthodoxy would be

[00:29:41] not only inferior but would be a heresy.

[00:29:44] So he had gone on and listed

[00:29:46] every type of denomination or church

[00:29:49] or spiritual entity, children of Mojo,

[00:29:52] was witnessed as Catholic church, Protestant, Reformed.

[00:29:55] He had a hundred different names.

[00:29:57] He'd gone to some kind of a religious dictionary

[00:29:59] and said anybody who goes by these names is not

[00:30:02] to spend time with them.

[00:30:05] So there's a pushback in society,

[00:30:08] neighborhoods and families.

[00:30:09] You would pay a price if you stand up

[00:30:12] for a Protestant or evangelical perspective.

[00:30:15] You'll pay a price for that.

[00:30:17] Very interesting.

[00:30:18] It provides the challenges and thus why

[00:30:21] sometimes it can be a little bit of a slow growth,

[00:30:23] slow process.

[00:30:26] But at the end of the day,

[00:30:27] like what you're saying Stephen, they're seeing love.

[00:30:30] It's like hey these guys are,

[00:30:32] there's something unique about it.

[00:30:34] And I want to get, what about you Jeff?

[00:30:38] You went over there. When did you get back?

[00:30:40] It was pretty recent right?

[00:30:41] When were we there?

[00:30:43] We came back, yeah, into April we came back.

[00:30:46] So what, I mean, had you ever been to Greece before?

[00:30:49] I had not, that was my first time.

[00:30:51] Not even on like a vacation or something?

[00:30:53] No, not first time.

[00:30:54] I did learn tourism, number one industry

[00:30:57] in Greece.

[00:30:59] But what was your,

[00:31:01] what was your, like,

[00:31:04] when you first saw what these guys are doing,

[00:31:06] what did you think?

[00:31:08] You know I had no expectation going over.

[00:31:12] You know, I mean I had expectations

[00:31:14] but I was trying to rid my mind of those

[00:31:16] so I'd be open to see what I was going to see

[00:31:20] and I was surprised both in good ways.

[00:31:26] Really no bad ways,

[00:31:27] but really in good ways.

[00:31:29] Just seeing that, yeah there's been a ministry,

[00:31:32] there's been things that have been happening

[00:31:34] with Hellenic ministries that are so dynamic

[00:31:36] and so beautiful over decades.

[00:31:39] And God's doing a good work

[00:31:41] in building up to this opportunity

[00:31:45] to plant churches.

[00:31:47] But I also realized that the difficult thing

[00:31:51] moving forward would be in planting churches

[00:31:54] is finding people that would be able to plant churches there

[00:31:58] that would be successful.

[00:32:00] You know, just the nationalistic feeling

[00:32:04] that you have with Greeks is like

[00:32:06] the person's got to be Greek, right?

[00:32:09] Is that the case, Steven?

[00:32:10] Absolutely, absolutely.

[00:32:11] And you've been there for a long time,

[00:32:13] even so are you accepted as one of them in a sense

[00:32:17] or you're just, like what's your...

[00:32:19] You know it's a quasi acceptance.

[00:32:24] So maybe I'm endured, I don't know.

[00:32:27] I endure you.

[00:32:32] Well even my own children

[00:32:34] laugh to joke about how terrible my Greek is.

[00:32:41] But the church that he was speaking about

[00:32:44] which you were going on the timeline,

[00:32:47] we visited and I met the pastor

[00:32:49] and the potential pastor that's going to be taking over

[00:32:53] and my heart was filled with joy

[00:32:55] because what I saw was what I thought

[00:32:57] maybe wasn't possible is very possible.

[00:33:01] And it was a very dynamic experience

[00:33:04] on the island of Crete there.

[00:33:06] And so, yeah, tell us...

[00:33:08] You were starting to tell us that timeline, so...

[00:33:11] Sure.

[00:33:12] So yeah, to put things...

[00:33:13] Before I interrupted?

[00:33:14] Yeah.

[00:33:15] That's great.

[00:33:16] So we sent our lead planter as a couple in 2014

[00:33:23] with strict instructions that they couldn't lease a space

[00:33:26] for at least a year because we wanted them to prove out

[00:33:29] all the assumptions and theories.

[00:33:32] They had been preparing for seven years

[00:33:35] for this move to be able to go and plan a church there.

[00:33:39] And so of course they were a bit shocked when they said,

[00:33:42] well what do you mean?

[00:33:43] We have to wait 12 months before we can lease a space

[00:33:45] because we're finally here.

[00:33:47] Do I have a coffee?

[00:33:49] We know the ice.

[00:33:52] And I can remember the coaching conversations

[00:33:55] that we would have and the frustration

[00:33:57] from my Greek teammate that was there.

[00:34:00] But in hindsight, he's actually grateful

[00:34:04] that he took that time because, one,

[00:34:07] it gave confidence in the things

[00:34:09] that were affirmed in the original vision

[00:34:11] but it also gave definition and nuance

[00:34:15] into some of the things that we hadn't really considered

[00:34:19] in a space that we needed to have

[00:34:22] in order to reach the target audience

[00:34:24] that we wanted to reach.

[00:34:26] So just as an example,

[00:34:29] we knew we were going to be serving the poor

[00:34:31] but what service were we going to provide?

[00:34:34] What was needed?

[00:34:35] So after thorough research and investigation,

[00:34:38] we found what were some of the felt needs

[00:34:41] that weren't being met by the community.

[00:34:45] We had, sadly, as a father of five,

[00:34:50] had no vision for children's ministry

[00:34:52] or how we would actually minister to families

[00:34:56] and realized that it was critical

[00:34:59] to have a children's space in the facility

[00:35:03] and in fact our lead planter

[00:35:06] actually built it out himself in order to have that space

[00:35:10] to be able to reach the young families

[00:35:13] that were going to be coming into the community.

[00:35:16] So these are just some small examples

[00:35:18] of what came out of that patient process.

[00:35:22] And slowly but surely,

[00:35:25] people started to get connected, to gain trust

[00:35:28] because that's a big...

[00:35:29] I mean, just as Dan was mentioning earlier,

[00:35:31] just with the challenges,

[00:35:32] like it's not easy to gain that trust

[00:35:36] once they start to trickle in.

[00:35:37] Did you find that then neighbors would invite neighbors

[00:35:41] and people would eventually get into the Sunday service type situation?

[00:35:45] Yeah, so that timeline,

[00:35:48] we opened our center in 2016 in January

[00:35:52] and it wasn't until 22

[00:35:57] before we had the Greek neighbors

[00:36:01] attending their first Sunday morning church service.

[00:36:04] Now it took years for them just to come in,

[00:36:07] get a coffee and go

[00:36:08] and then get a coffee,

[00:36:11] have a short conversation and then go.

[00:36:14] Have a coffee, have a conversation.

[00:36:17] Reluctantly agree to go to a Bible study.

[00:36:21] And all the while just getting nervous

[00:36:22] about the whole situation.

[00:36:24] Entirely, entirely.

[00:36:25] You know, and so but from 22 to 24

[00:36:29] we see the first people making their decision

[00:36:33] of taking two years of coming to Sunday services

[00:36:37] and considering belonging to the community.

[00:36:40] And this is what I found really beautiful

[00:36:41] is that the neighbors who are connected to the community

[00:36:46] feel a part of the community

[00:36:47] and own this as they belong to this community.

[00:36:51] This is their church.

[00:36:52] They know it's a church.

[00:36:53] This is their church.

[00:36:53] Even before they make a decision

[00:36:55] to surrender their lives to the Lord.

[00:36:58] Wow, that's crazy.

[00:37:00] I mean not crazy, it's cool.

[00:37:02] But that's just neat to see that

[00:37:03] it's so ingrained.

[00:37:06] I mean you just have to work within the cultural context

[00:37:08] that you're going into.

[00:37:09] And it's so ingrained in that culture

[00:37:11] to be a community based people

[00:37:13] that that came before even an accepting of Christ.

[00:37:18] So I love it.

[00:37:19] And it's so time intensive.

[00:37:23] It just takes a long time.

[00:37:25] Trust is not over now.

[00:37:26] We want it fast.

[00:37:27] You know how do you measure success, right?

[00:37:29] Exactly.

[00:37:30] In the Greek context you're going to measure it

[00:37:32] very differently than you would in the North America.

[00:37:33] What would you say is the average size

[00:37:36] of a healthy church congregation in Greece?

[00:37:38] Oh man, well you do have some larger ones

[00:37:40] in the Athens area but Stephen would you say

[00:37:43] 30 to 50 would be an average size?

[00:37:46] Yes, that would be a typical average size.

[00:37:48] And that would probably be like a nice size church.

[00:37:51] Like you have 30 to 50 or something.

[00:37:52] Yeah, that's great.

[00:37:54] And just the fact that it's so relational

[00:37:59] really it shows a really mature health.

[00:38:02] Like these people are coming to church

[00:38:04] because they want to know Jesus.

[00:38:06] It's not part of a cultural...

[00:38:09] It's not easy to do.

[00:38:10] Right, it's not an easy thing to do.

[00:38:12] It's like you walk in, if you don't like it

[00:38:13] you just leave there.

[00:38:14] It's like a real commitment.

[00:38:16] It doesn't cost us much.

[00:38:19] It costs them a lot.

[00:38:20] Yes.

[00:38:22] Well what's on the horizon?

[00:38:24] What are you looking forward to over the next season?

[00:38:27] Ministry in Greece.

[00:38:29] Absolutely, well what I'm excited about

[00:38:31] is sort of in our Crete church plant

[00:38:32] we're now at a level of maturity.

[00:38:36] I think you alluded to meeting.

[00:38:38] We've now established our first elders.

[00:38:42] We now have our successor for taking the church forward

[00:38:46] so that our lead planters can go

[00:38:48] and launch in a new area.

[00:38:51] And that's really going to expand

[00:38:53] and multiply our reach in the country.

[00:38:56] You know, I'm based in Athens

[00:38:58] but I'm working all over a country

[00:39:01] outside of Athens for the most part

[00:39:04] to the far ends of the country

[00:39:06] traveling quite a bit.

[00:39:08] So it'll be nice to have someone on location

[00:39:10] further away that can help carry

[00:39:13] some of that vision and burden.

[00:39:16] Well I'm excited for you guys

[00:39:18] because I think of it as just a picture

[00:39:20] that came to my mind is like the silver of seeds.

[00:39:22] You know, you've sowed the seed of the word of God

[00:39:25] literally into a million plus homes

[00:39:28] and now what seeds do is they sprout up

[00:39:32] and you see a small little thing starting

[00:39:35] and it's taken a couple years

[00:39:37] and I wish it would go faster but it's not

[00:39:39] and it's growing and you're getting to the point

[00:39:42] I think this could be a very very fruitful season.

[00:39:45] Absolutely. We believe it.

[00:39:48] You know, and seeing that the Crete community

[00:39:50] now we've got kind of the beach head if you will.

[00:39:54] You know, we've got the or proof of concept

[00:39:57] as we would use in my old industry jargon

[00:40:01] that we now have a space in country

[00:40:04] that we can bring leaders and future planters

[00:40:07] to come and experience

[00:40:10] to really not just learn the theory

[00:40:14] but experience the DNA, experience the culture

[00:40:16] to be able to replicate in other parts of Greece.

[00:40:20] Amazing.

[00:40:21] One of the things that I'm personally excited about

[00:40:26] is the possibility of exponential growth.

[00:40:30] Yes.

[00:40:31] And you know, as you were speaking

[00:40:34] I was thinking of Jesus as words, right?

[00:40:36] The harvest is ready but the laborers are few

[00:40:40] and Dan and I were talking about this a few weeks ago

[00:40:42] where do we find laborers?

[00:40:44] Where do we find men that would be willing

[00:40:47] to go and plant churches, you know?

[00:40:51] Especially with the criteria

[00:40:52] I believe you've got to be Greek, you know?

[00:40:57] And so we were tossing around different things.

[00:40:59] Of course there are evangelical churches there

[00:41:01] that maybe would be a pool to fish from.

[00:41:05] I know you have a Bible college

[00:41:07] that you work closely with.

[00:41:08] Yes.

[00:41:09] So those are a couple areas

[00:41:10] but Dan and I were talking about what about

[00:41:12] Greek speaking men that are part of a church here

[00:41:17] even in America.

[00:41:19] I don't know of any personally

[00:41:21] but I would imagine there are those types of places

[00:41:25] that maybe we could pull from

[00:41:26] and maybe even somebody listening to this podcast

[00:41:28] would say, oh, I know a Greek church right down the street.

[00:41:33] But just finding those people that God has called

[00:41:38] because this is exciting.

[00:41:40] I mean, it's weird to say that

[00:41:42] because the Apostle Paul was in Athens, right?

[00:41:47] He was in Crete, he was in Malta.

[00:41:48] I mean he's all those places.

[00:41:50] So it seems strange to say that

[00:41:52] but it's just such a need

[00:41:56] and it seems like God's really doing something.

[00:42:00] I think it's a little bit different now

[00:42:02] than it was at the time of the Apostle Paul.

[00:42:03] A little bit.

[00:42:05] It's a new generation of people.

[00:42:07] That's right.

[00:42:09] Well, what I would say is that

[00:42:13] a decade ago we had a nice group of young people

[00:42:17] who were just eager to serve the Lord.

[00:42:21] Didn't know how, didn't know where.

[00:42:25] As we took on mission, they started to find their gifts

[00:42:29] and it's exciting to see that

[00:42:33] most of those people are now in full-time ministry.

[00:42:35] Not all of them are church planners.

[00:42:37] Not all of them are working with Hellenic ministries.

[00:42:39] Some are working through the experience.

[00:42:42] They're a local church recognized gifting

[00:42:45] and started to employ them

[00:42:47] and empower them to do ministry in their context,

[00:42:51] which for us that's a victory for the kingdom.

[00:42:55] A decade later I never thought I would be in this position

[00:42:58] where we actually have now more work happening

[00:43:03] and I don't have enough workers.

[00:43:04] I don't have enough leaders that we're equipping

[00:43:06] to be able to send out to cover the needs.

[00:43:10] So Jeff, yeah, we would welcome Greek-speaking,

[00:43:14] Greek background folks that maybe don't live in Greece right now.

[00:43:18] There's been a big push to make it easier

[00:43:22] for the Aspoda to be able to come back

[00:43:25] and to either live in Greece

[00:43:27] or even just to be able to reconnect with the homeland.

[00:43:32] So that certainly would be an opportunity there as well.

[00:43:36] Awesome.

[00:43:37] Full guys, been great having you on the show.

[00:43:40] Jeff, is there any last questions you have

[00:43:42] for our distinguished guests?

[00:43:45] Yeah, no questions other than...

[00:43:48] The Greeks, like all of them.

[00:43:51] The Greeks that are not Greeks.

[00:43:52] Not Greeks. That's right.

[00:43:55] Really no questions, but just a request for our listeners.

[00:44:00] Really two-fold request.

[00:44:02] Number one is that people would just be praying

[00:44:04] for Hellenic ministries and the Echos

[00:44:08] that they're putting together.

[00:44:10] We didn't talk about so much more of what is happening there,

[00:44:13] but if you feel led to go and visit Greece,

[00:44:17] you can contact them.

[00:44:19] We gave the contact information.

[00:44:21] Maybe we can put it in the show notes.

[00:44:24] Or if you know me, you can contact me

[00:44:26] because we're going to be working closely over the years.

[00:44:29] We can add you to teams and that sort of thing.

[00:44:33] And then really just prayer

[00:44:36] and then also for those young men

[00:44:39] that maybe want to plant churches,

[00:44:43] cultivate. We want to work with you.

[00:44:45] Cultivate wants to work with you

[00:44:47] and help you get set up.

[00:44:50] Wonderful.

[00:44:51] Dan, any last words that you want to share?

[00:44:53] No, thanks for the opportunity. Privilege.

[00:44:55] Glad to have you on the show.

[00:44:57] Stephen, thanks for being with us.

[00:44:59] God bless your ministry.

[00:45:00] We're going to be praying for you and with you.

[00:45:02] I'm so glad we got to take this time

[00:45:03] for me to come up here to Tennessee

[00:45:06] of all places and talk about Greece.

[00:45:08] Might be time to go have some barbecue.

[00:45:11] Alright, gyro.

[00:45:14] Large forgive our drowned Ryan.

[00:45:19] Thanks so much for being on the show, guys.

[00:45:21] Thank you.

[00:45:22] Thanks for listening.

[00:45:24] The Cultivate Church Planning Podcast

[00:45:25] is part of CGN Media,

[00:45:27] a podcast network that points to Christ.

[00:45:30] Check out cgnmedia.org

[00:45:31] for more great shows and ways to support the ministry.