Collaborative Culture - Part 2 | Daniel Fusco & Zach Vestnys

[00:00:00] Today is Part 2 in my conversation with Zach Vestnys and Daniel Fusco on the subject of creating a culture of collaboration in your ministry.

[00:00:10] You know, as an older leader I have to be honest that this type of idea was a bit foreign to me, but the more that I've leaned into it and have tried to cultivate it amongst our team, the fruit that I have seen has far outweighed the challenges.

[00:00:28] You know Paul lays out a goal of ministry in Ephesians chapter 4 where he says in himself, speaking up the Lord, gave some to be apostles, some prophets, some evangelists and some pastors and teachers.

[00:00:43] For this purpose, for the equipping of the saints for the work of ministry and for the edifying of the body of Christ, till we all come to a unity of faith and of the knowledge of the Son of God to a perfect man and to the measure of the stature of the fullness of Christ.

[00:01:01] Well, I personally believe that developing a culture of collaboration is essential for fulfilling that goal that Paul lays out there in Ephesians chapter 4. Now we're going to begin part 2 by looking at some of the examples of collaboration that we see in Scripture.

[00:01:18] And so now here's my conversation with Daniel and Zach on building a culture of collaboration. Now, I'm just wishing years a little bit. I think we see a beautiful picture of collaboration in the story of Nehemiah in the Bible.

[00:01:34] Where are some other areas in Scripture where you see the idea of collaboration happening? Where don't you, man? I think we're going through the Gospel of Mark right now and just just the simple yet really familiar idea that Jesus chose disciples that.

[00:01:54] God himself is collaborating with humanity in this mission of bringing His kingdom to the world and that blows my mind.

[00:02:04] I mean, the book of Acts, all the names involve the people, the relational challenges that that presented and you know moving into the epistles, especially Paul, all the people that he named some of them we know some of them we don't there's just such a beautiful and.

[00:02:23] Deep and consistent pattern, I think of collaboration throughout the Nehemiah testament too. I love that picture in Acts chapter 6 where they're having that issue in the early church with the Hellenistic widows you know not being cared for.

[00:02:40] The way that you know some people thought they should and so that it apostles instead of you know them dealing with it and come and go to the plan they're like,

[00:02:49] you guys choose seven men from among yourselves and this is the criteria this is what they should look like but you know you guys figure this out. I think it's a good example as well of that any thoughts on that Daniel.

[00:03:03] Well yeah, I mean I think every page of our Bible is collaborative now obviously God is inspiring and but like even like you know God gave Moses the details of the tabernacle but then now Moses to build it you know you know and so there's all these.

[00:03:18] His places where God is directing and then people are jumping in and adding different parts to it. I mean everyone appalls letters in a sense is collaborative.

[00:03:29] If you think about it's like there's a context going on that is inspiring him to write to deal with different things like the church and Corinth had one set of issues.

[00:03:38] And so really God's you know the context of God working is in the midst of people and so and then people get involved and you also see a ton of collaboration in a sinful way in our Bible as well like you know if you think about like.

[00:03:56] What was going on in our first second chronicles and you know some of you know second first and second kings where it's like there's collaborations away from the presence of God towards things that created

[00:04:07] have it to where there's an a Syrian you know exiles about only an exile and is there's all this mess and they're they're being subjugated.

[00:04:16] And all again once again people together making decisions like I've been thinking a lot about that idea of Solomon you know the one of the wisest men who ever lived.

[00:04:26] But yet by the time it's all said and done Solomon's got like 600 wives he's like building pagan temples and you're just like this guy like wrote books in our Bible like how does he go from this.

[00:04:36] To this you know but it's him interacting with his environment the dynamics of his going on he's making soft choices poor choices in some ways he's making political marriages.

[00:04:48] He's trying to just kind of keep things calm all these different reasons creating all this up but although that are our examples of collaboration although not always positive. And one of the that brings up an incredible point that one of the clearest.

[00:05:04] Through of the power of collaboration is a negative one in scripture right because the tower of battle.

[00:05:10] Here's this incredible collaborative effort and I don't even fully understand this that God looks at that in steps in says hey we got to stop we have stopped this is this like you're saying to that's a collaboration for the wrong purposes.

[00:05:26] And yet it's powerful there's a there's a power in it hopefully being used for good the glory of God. Not not bad.

[00:05:35] Yeah and I think if we keep hey this we want to go to be glorified you know what I mean like like this is about the fame of Jesus and not something else.

[00:05:44] You know once we get off of that then obviously you know you look at the world today like you know you look at America today not to get off on. You know contemporary issues but it's like all laws are collaborative.

[00:05:56] It's like it's the will of the people that makes a law a law.

[00:06:01] It doesn't mean it's right you just means good or bad it just means this is what the people want and politicians get elected by being more popular with what the people want the person that they're running against.

[00:06:13] You know America isn't as a great example of a collaborative experiment where you have division of powers and all these different things but it is a collaborative environment. So I think if in all collaboration it has to be you know this is for God's glory.

[00:06:28] This is we want Jesus to be glorified in what we come up with with not only what we do but why we do it the motivations behind how we execute it.

[00:06:37] How we make it better you know all of these things if God's glory is not you know, you know, God's going in the face and person and work of Jesus by the power of faith.

[00:06:46] That's not there then we can come up with all sorts of crazy ideas together. You know and who knows if the three of us without Jesus what we could have come up with the mayhem that we could come up with. Mayhem is right.

[00:07:02] You know in the positive examples that you guys gave from scripture it's interesting and each one of those there's still a leader seems that is involved in it and most of it.

[00:07:15] And so when you guys just speak to this idea if somebody's listening to this maybe another senior pastor who doesn't have this with his staff or it's not a part of their church culture.

[00:07:29] But they're like listening and going you know I like this I like what these guys are saying how would you encourage them to start in kind of creating trying to create a culture of collaboration in their church and with their teams.

[00:07:48] I mean I would start by saying you just have to start and like in a lot of ways like the reality that there's always a leader like I never give away my authority to veto something if I really don't like it.

[00:08:04] But I I've never had to use it. So I think just inviting people in you know so I would say like if it's a church with a staff that's great or keep on tears aboard and like really just asking open ended questions and listening.

[00:08:20] You know what do you think is the best part of our church? What do you think is the part that's the most lacking.

[00:08:28] If we could change three things about the church that we think would reach more people in our community and I'm going to talk about changing the Bible.

[00:08:36] We're not like that's not on the table but it's like everything else is on the table you know and and sometimes just hearing the discussions. Letting people start speaking and I think as a senior pastor or lead pastor or the primary decision maker.

[00:08:55] Your ability to listen and not respond, not be defensive. You know like because right as you do that like there I think Andy Stanley says that if you're not willing to listen to people at some point you can be surrounded by people have nothing to say.

[00:09:08] You know and so you have to be willing to just let people talk and reward thank them for their honesty not like I can't be this said that didn't really like me.

[00:09:18] Like that's all that that's that insecurity in that and that ego that kills good collaboration but like what you'll be like you do that with people who care about their church people who love their faith family.

[00:09:33] And it's like they just wanted to be great and the same thing you we go home with our with our brides and our kids and you know robbing your case of grandkids. You know if Zach Scott Grandkids now he's definitely the youngest grandpa ever.

[00:09:46] No grandkids yet not there yet but like you know I mean you sit down and say man like what's great about our family or if you could change one thing about how our family functions what would that be.

[00:09:59] Of course like the youngest like my youngest Annabelle who's 11th I think we should be having.

[00:10:03] Candy bars for breakfast like and it's like and that's her that's her academic collaboration you know what I mean like we're like sweetie we're not really going to do that but maybe on Saturdays you know.

[00:10:15] But like just opening that those conversations up and and see what people come up with what I will say is that in an environment's work collaboration hasn't been welcome.

[00:10:25] It's going to take a while because people have learned that like oh yeah that goes really bad if we do that or we shouldn't speak up about that because then someone gets fired or someone gets like go or someone seen as not loyal or whatever the language gets you so if it's something that hasn't been happening.

[00:10:42] You're in the beginning they're going to just look at you like wait what you know especially if you're the primary talker in every meeting and so but just opening up coming in with three questions and just seeing what people come up with. That just gets the ball rolling.

[00:10:56] Love that any thoughts on that Zach. Yeah I think he at the nail on the head I think the secret weapon in the art of collaboration is listening. Like you said Daniel without defensiveness.

[00:11:12] And you know I think if it's not an environment or a culture that you're in right now I think you want to see where your natural bent is and then start leaning the opposite direction but be aware of the ditches on both sides you know I think we're we're discussion is.

[00:11:31] Is centering around is I think on the one hand there's the abdication of leadership which is hey we're just going to decide everything by committee which can be a disaster.

[00:11:44] And then the other the other side is an overly authoritarian leadership where you know it's just going to be how I say the way I say every time. So that's I think listening.

[00:11:55] And I'm not just saying I think it really is the absolute key the ability to listen not be threatened not be defensive if. Criticism kills creativity then insecurity kills collaboration I think that's the key. That's good I like that.

[00:12:16] So let me ask you guys this in the process now at your church because I know you know both of you guys you have a culture of collaboration.

[00:12:25] When that's happening are you involved in like let's say you're planning an event and you're getting out through your leaders and you're talking about the event. Are you collaborating involving that collaboration process throughout the whole process or maybe just in the beginning of the process.

[00:12:46] What does that look like? I have found that my presence can sometimes kill the collaboration not because I want to but because that was like well okay what is Daniel think yeah. So so I I try and find as many meetings not to go to as possible.

[00:13:07] So I love that. Yeah, I mean, I'm in shooting that immediately. But really like you know I find that like I want my teams to get rolling without me saying anything.

[00:13:24] Yeah, you know what I mean and so and often times it's kind of like I heard in analogy of this that like in in a phenomenal restaurant where there's a chef the chef doesn't make every dish.

[00:13:38] The chef does quality he he he might create the dishes he might create the menu he does quality control.

[00:13:47] You know everyone else makes it all and then he's make sure oh yeah, that's plated right oh yeah, that's great and and I have found at crossroads that that's really my job is just to by the time they get it.

[00:13:57] I always say that I want to be able to speak into it before it's it's formalized. Okay.

[00:14:03] You know so I get to be part of the process but I want them to all iterate and ideate and brain storm and get excited about things and and work through the details of it.

[00:14:14] And at some point I'll get invited into and normally won't even be with the whole team or just you know whether it's just the executive team or or our chief of staff, you know what we'll be like hey this is where this is.

[00:14:27] We think you would think that this is important we think that this is something that you know you're going to be concerned about this is how we're thinking through this piece.

[00:14:36] We can at some point but almost always now it's like I'm just like yeah we probably need to just you know wipe that played a little better, you know it comes in pretty pretty incredibly.

[00:14:47] Created and so I just have a quality control kind of function at that point. So what that says to me Daniel that you as a lead pastor are really willing to relinquish a lot of control.

[00:15:03] And to give your team a lot of freedom is that an accurate description. Yeah I mean so we along with having a culture of collaboration like I believe in a culture of empowerment and so we actually believe in something called the levels of empowerment.

[00:15:18] And so to give you a little framework and this goes from like the least empowered to the most empowered it begins.

[00:15:24] Least empowered is don't go like just hold on just cool your jets like don't do anything the second level is, you know let me know and then go like you got to check in and then you go.

[00:15:37] And then the third level is go and then let me know you know where it's now they're more empowered and then the final is just go. So our goal is to get everybody on staff to just go, you know full empowerment but that takes time.

[00:15:52] Yeah you know depending on how you know you go through enough you know situations so like I said earlier like my you know my executive team has been together for a while.

[00:16:01] So they're all running on just go like you know I know that they understand like we've we've fumbled the ball a lot.

[00:16:09] We've made a million and five mistakes like we don't penalize mistakes like we just learn from them and we you know we want to fail forward that's the phrase and you know like and we so we we've all done that you know I've done a million

[00:16:21] million interceptions like we've we've messed it all up in so many different ways but each time we're learning from it and so for me at this point I have a fully empowered team and they're in the process of fully empowering their teams.

[00:16:34] So that you know the more times we go through it to like oh yeah, we know that if we're going to do this pastor Dan's going to ask about that because they know me they know like this is how I work this is what I care about this is what I'm concerned about.

[00:16:48] And so they they they bake that into the process now okay you know and so because of that it's not really so much that I've kind of relinquished it it's like they're just empowered and they understand like like.

[00:16:59] Like my job is to create the guardrails and I'm like yeah I just can't live if we fall off the road to that side for that reason. That's good about few zack are you involved in the beginning of the process the whole process the end of the process.

[00:17:14] It depends about say the general rule of thumb is I tend to be the bottleneck. Because of my availability the number of things I'm involved in and needed for.

[00:17:25] And so I would typically be involved near the beginning setting the vision in the course and then making sure the plan. And then it seems solid and then it's like yeah let's run with it.

[00:17:38] And then along the way if I'm hearing things or getting feedback because I can't look like you said it's like if it's a great idea we get the credit sometimes many times unnecessarily.

[00:17:48] But we also bear the responsibility of all the criticisms people come and tell us about them so. I'll try to get as out of the way as possible and then just give the feedback that's needed.

[00:18:03] I think we do something similar to what Daniel was talking about. We we talk about it in terms of the different levels of delegation. And so I think you know expectations are only but how does it go expectations are only fair if they're communicated and agreed on.

[00:18:21] And so the killer in all relationships is un-to-be-the-cated expectations right and so when the comes of the people we're working with collaborating with delegating to. I want them to know like hey what level is this being delegated.

[00:18:38] Who you or to me if I'm the one carrying it out and I think.

[00:18:43] You know we look at it with like five different levels there's hey I need you level one is I need you to go do exactly what I'm asking you to do and need you to go buy five of these and make sure they're here for a community in Sunday.

[00:18:56] Level two would be like can need you to research this and then let me know because I'm going to make a decision. Level three would be hey I need you to research this and give me your best recommendation because I'm probably going to go with what you recommend.

[00:19:11] And the four is hey I want you to go do all the legwork and then make the decision but let me know what your decision was so I can cover that and answer for it.

[00:19:22] And then the level five kind of relating to Daniel's go is you can just do it just your responsibility go for it. So a little bit different way of seeing that but the same similar concept in terms of delegation.

[00:19:36] Great stuff how about this question how important is having the right team members in creating a culture of collaboration.

[00:19:47] Crucial yeah I think I think it's crucial to have the right team members like you were saying you guys are both said at Rob in so many ways but some people just don't like that environment some people want to own their own business because they they want to call the shots.

[00:20:05] And do it their way and not answered anybody and have the freedom and there's nothing wrong with that I think if you recognize that.

[00:20:11] About yourself there are careers and jobs that are well fit for that maybe even within the church or within certain churches but I think what's what's good if if we have a culture of collaboration at our church and we highly value that.

[00:20:29] Again communications are only fair if they're your expectations are only fair if they're communicating agreed on that we communicate that as people come in hey we highly value.

[00:20:41] Collaboration and we want you to know that up front and if you're willing to learn and grow in that great there's all the. The time in patience in the world but if you're just against that is probably would be a place you would not like to be.

[00:20:56] You know it's good you know it's interesting Daniel about X. team is a. Small team for the size of their church but one of the most high capacity teams I've ever seen. Really really a great team of people that are you know all functioning.

[00:21:22] You know overseen several different things and doing it very very well it's great great team there.

[00:21:28] So I think in in X context because it's a smaller team I think what he he said makes all the sense in the world that if somebody were to come into that team and not.

[00:21:43] That wasn't their makeup you know that they just weren't somebody wanted to collaborate it probably wouldn't work well but I'm wondering in your context down you'll be in a bigger team.

[00:21:56] Could there be a place you know for somebody on your team that was less likely to you know want to be involved in collaborating but maybe they did.

[00:22:09] You know we're just really really good at doing what you needed them to do there at crossroads could there be a place for somebody like that. Do you have any beauty like that on your team now?

[00:22:21] Yeah absolutely I mean I think you know in a in a church that you know in a church point like I was a church point of forgot to crossroads like you're a generalist you have to do everything like I was the op sky I was the HR guy I was the IT consultant.

[00:22:36] Like you know you do all of it you know and you preach you do the counseling and everything and so you know in a larger staff than people become more specialized.

[00:22:45] And so not everyone is collaborative and we're not going to like we don't want to give projected everybody has to like this or do this now what would be a problem is let's say you have somebody who doesn't like collaboration but like every time someone gives them like hey we want you to let's talk about upgrading this like I don't want to do that.

[00:23:04] That would just violate like our you know or core values of who we are you know and so there are some people and our staff who like they're just like that's a good piece of information and they will implement it but don't ask them for like the upgrade piece of information.

[00:23:19] They'll get them someone else right and so you know there it definitely is the context for that you know and because we have you know in all of our departments there's multiple people who are really really gifted and smart and and well read.

[00:23:33] Like their experts in their fields you know and so I expect that they're going to have insights into things.

[00:23:41] You know they're going to they're going to be coming with you know the heavy stuff that we're looking for and so I expect that in there in those environments but the key is also that you know if people are humble enough a teachable and are willing to.

[00:23:58] You know we're being willing to yield and listen you know as long as they have that piece it's fine but but people who really just like hey I just want to do my job just don't bother me don't change anything.

[00:24:08] You know that this wouldn't work ultimately because we're constantly tweaking things we're constantly working on things we're constantly no matter how good we're doing at something there's always like can we do it more efficiently can we do it with for less energy like there's just you know we're constantly looking at all those things.

[00:24:26] That's great great answers guys you know it's interesting to me that in our context of our coverage Apple movement. You know we just recorded a podcast episode that dealt with succession and the idea of succession that's going to air this summer sometime.

[00:24:48] But I'm looking at you know our movement and just the realization that and this is probably conservative number but I'm guessing at least a hundred of our churches and our pastors are going to be in a place and within the next 10 years that they're going to have to be thinking about.

[00:25:06] Succession or actually they should be thinking about it now because they're going to be you know coming to a place where they're going to need to transition their church to someone else.

[00:25:16] And so I picture guys are going to be coming into a culture that is set up that isn't like this, but they want it to be like this and so I think some of the things that you guys are sharing will be really really helpful.

[00:25:31] And just moving forward but the realization I think we've established today is this type of thing.

[00:25:40] Building a culture collaboration takes time it's not something that happens overnight especially when you have inherited a culture it's not so different than when you're planting and you can kind of set that the way you want things to be right from the get go but when you're when you inherit a culture.

[00:25:58] It's a little bit different and so I really appreciate the things that you guys have said and I just want to end today on this thought of.

[00:26:06] Why do you think and just you've already touched on this but just again why do you think having a culture of collaboration is so important especially in today's church. I think it is the fullest and most beautiful representation of Christ you know when we think about.

[00:26:31] The end game of the mission a people from every tribe and tongue and nation. There is there is such a beautiful diversity and these sort of unsurmountable from the world's perspective these these insurmountable obstacles between these groups that there's just no way they could come to.

[00:26:50] They could come together and work together and be unified in a purpose you know the best we could expect. Is them to tolerate one another right and and and Jesus our Lord our king is saying.

[00:27:06] I want you not only to love one another but I have a mission for you to participate in together that is going to gather. People from every tribe and tongue and nation and I think it just gets back to that really.

[00:27:21] Ruit of entry definition of collaboration people working together for a common purpose we're working together.

[00:27:30] To get this good news out to a world that desperately needs it to the glory of the God we love and serve and so it's like it's it's inextricable I think from the definition of our mission.

[00:27:42] Our goal which is our purpose to glorify God not just as an individual but as a part of the kingdom and community of people that love and worship Jesus. I love that. Any final thoughts on that Daniel? Yeah, I just agree with that completely.

[00:28:01] The way I look at it is that you know our individual local churches have each have a unique mission and you put all the individual local churches together. And at best you get the whole body of Christ. So like each church exists in its a different context.

[00:28:18] You know, I mean like Zach and Petaluma you're in Vista you know I'm in Vancouver Washington you know it's like you know the size of the church the collection of staff the unique ways God has wired each one of us.

[00:28:30] No two churches even in the same tribe should actually look the same because God graces different houses different ways. You know and so we have a saying across us we like to say we know who we are and we like it.

[00:28:45] That doesn't mean that we're the best or the only we just like this is what we're called to and if you're if some other church is not called to it especially a church in our tribe or church in another in our city or across the country.

[00:28:58] Okay like I get that you know I'm not called to doing what you're doing like that's okay.

[00:29:03] That doesn't mean that you're good and I'm bad or I'm bad and you're good it's like we just we're trying to do what we're trying to do and I think the collaborative process.

[00:29:11] You know we were talking earlier about like good team members it's like when you know the NFL draft just happened.

[00:29:18] When a team gets a new quarterback that team's going to change some team gets like a phenomenal player or in free agency it things are going to change and so that's constantly evolving.

[00:29:27] And I think the biggest issue the reason Christianity I believe is in decline in America is because churches are trying to put up McDonald's like oh this is what they did here and it is we do it here.

[00:29:37] And there's such like an an emphasis on conformity to like a style that we really lost the hey these are the ideals of that style but this is the unique expression of what this looks like in our context with these people.

[00:29:52] Given the size we are at this time given that the resources we have you know and I think when we when we eradicate that or we make that unacceptable in certain circles really what you're doing is you're suppressing.

[00:30:07] The spontaneous expansion of the church in a community because we're scared I mean I'm not some people are scared to try things that's going to get them in trouble.

[00:30:17] I just I'm like I'll just get in trouble and I'll deal with that later but then that's also my personality and so I just think that it's so important for pastors to uniquely be the body of Christ that God has called them to be.

[00:30:28] And you have core values and things that you value but the expressions of that like all of our churches teach the word but I guarantee if we got down to and we and we have a preference for verse by verse.

[00:30:40] Through the books of the Bible teaching I guarantee if we went down and said how do you do it?

[00:30:44] It would all be teaching the word but there there'd be differences whole unique this is now if somebody likes one version of the unique is that's the only way to do it.

[00:30:53] But I don't really know if I believe that you know like so I think that this idea of figuring out like what part of the greater body of Christ is our local church.

[00:31:03] Like coming across roads I realized that like because of crossroads size and our and our we're an anchor church in the region. You know like a Brett better I know has been on you know on the program and like.

[00:31:14] Eighth is an anchor church in the Portland Metro reason region as is Manihouse Church or Bridgetown Church either churches and a lot of these are just have been around for a while.

[00:31:25] And so I realized that crossroads who we are in Clark County Washington and the Portland Metro like there's a there's a role that we're supposed to play.

[00:31:34] Because of who we are in the greater body of Christ in our region and that's different from another church because of that we're going to do something differently because that's a variable in our.

[00:31:44] decision making of this is who we are and is how we're supposed to do things and I think collaboration with your team within your church. That's for a for a pastor that it's going to lead you into exactly what God wants you to be.

[00:31:57] And and when that happens. You know God's kingdom happens effortlessly. Yeah. And when that's not happening if we're if we're wearing salt's armor because we've taken on some. And then we're going to have a system or some you know some some church in a box kind of style.

[00:32:13] Then we shouldn't be surprised while we're not effective why it's not working because it's a great salt's armor. Yeah, like David was smart and if even as a young guy like man I can't wear this.

[00:32:21] Like just give me give me five smooth stones that was like you know you nuts. You're going to go against a glass with five smooth stones. Yeah, like that's not going to do anything. Yeah, I love that.

[00:32:31] To me, one of the beautiful things about our Calvary Chapel movement you know when especially when when Chuck was leading it was he really allowed for that diversity. And and really championed it and praised it.

[00:32:49] I mean you know we would go to a conference and you know here guys that were like all over the map on the way they approach things and did things.

[00:32:59] It was just so you know so different and I love that and I think that's one of the things that you know we have to really really careful that way.

[00:33:09] We don't try to start putting everybody in in one little box and saying this is the way that it has to be.

[00:33:15] So I agree wholeheartedly with that Daniel and you know it's interesting what you're talking about Zach in in the sense that even like we can't at the disciples like there is not a single one of us.

[00:33:28] By ourselves that can be the beautiful picture of who Jesus is each one of us maybe is a little tiny part.

[00:33:38] You know you take the 12 and they were so different but you know as you look at them as a group and looking at each one of their traits then you see a little bit more of who Jesus is and I think that's the beauty of the body of Christ in that collaboration that when it's happening.

[00:33:55] Within the body it's like those who are looking at the body get a better chance to see what Jesus looks like as they're seeing the body functioning as a hold.

[00:34:07] The way that they're supposed to be you know functioning and I just want to kind of wrap up with this verse one of my favorite verses in Philippians 127 Paul says only let your conduct be worthy of the gospel of Christ so that whether I come to see you or am absent.

[00:34:22] I may hear of your affairs that you stand fast in one spirit with one mind striving together for the faith of the gospel.

[00:34:31] To me that right there is a beautiful picture of what our collaboration is supposed to look like and what it's for that that a conduct that's worthy of the gospel of Christ.

[00:34:42] You know that synergy of people all pulling in the same direction same goals same purpose but it maybe it looks a little bit different versus a tug of war when people are pulling an opposite direction so.

[00:35:00] Really appreciate your guys time today and being on here just great great insights and. Love you guys. What do you think's there having us?

[00:35:11] Well that concludes our episode for today and I hope that this episode on creating a culture of collaboration in your team has stirred your heart to consider how your church and how your team might grow and be blessed by developing this kind of culture.

[00:35:29] If this conversation has been helpful to you we would love to hear from you please like and subscribe and leave us a comment.

[00:35:37] Our prayer is that these conversations are helping you grow in your ministry and in your leadership until then we'll catch you next time on the Leadership Collective podcast.