168- Dale Lewis: A Pastor You Need to Know

168- Dale Lewis A Pastor You Need to Know

Welcome to Strength for Today's Pastor, conversations with current senior pastors and leaders which will strengthen and help you in your pastoral ministry. And now, here's your host, Bill Holdridge of Poimen Ministries. 

Host: Welcome to Podcast 168. Today, it's a blessing to have Pastor Dale Lewis with us. His life is an example of a man who continues to allow the Lord to do what he wants in and through his life. So, Dale Lewis has pastored two churches, Calvary Chapel in Merced in the Central Valley of California, as well as Bitterroot Calvary Chapel in Hamilton, Montana. 

Since he finished in Hamilton, he has retired from that church and now lives in Florida, from which he continues to serve the Lord within his calling and gifting.  

I've known Dale since 1981. I'll never forget, I'll never forget, it's impossible to forget, the Sunday morning when he and his wife Donna both raised their hands to receive Christ. 

And an older pastor friend of mine used to say “they got saved real good,” and that's exactly what happened with Dale and Donna, very fruitful lives.  

Dale, welcome to the program. It's great to have you. 

Guest: Well, thanks, Bill. It's great to be here.  

Host: So, I'm sure you remember that morning when you first trusted Christ. 

I mean, what I remember was how intentional you and Donna both were in your response. Your eyes were wide open, your hands shot up in the air vertically at 180 degrees to your shoulders, or 90 degrees for your shoulders. It was perfect. 

And your eyes remained wide open, and they were fixated on me and on the pulpit. And you were tracking. I could tell that you both were tracking with every ounce of energy and mind and spirit that was in you, and you responded to Christ. 

What do you remember about that moment? Well, there's several things.  

Guest: I think the setting of it, things probably, I don't even know if you're even aware of. First off, that day was Father's Day. 

And that was significant to me in many ways because I didn't have a father. My father died when I was four, and my mom remarried five months later to a man that beat me 11 years. So, I had no father upbringing. 

And that day on Father's Day, I received the greatest gift on Father's Day ever, my Heavenly Father. And He, quite frankly, is the only father I've ever had a relationship with. And that story plays out in multiple ways. 

And so, the other thing that's interesting about that story and that day was, is that prior to that, I was in the quest. I had read the Tibetan Book of the Dead, I got a mantra and became part of Scientology, [then there was] all of my Monterey experience.  

And somebody had challenged me a couple weeks earlier to read the Gospel of John and went into a Bible bookstore called the Kingdom Come, in The Barnyard, if you remember that. And she gave me a Gospel of John and dared me to read it. I did. I'd never read anybody like this Jesus. 

I'd never read the Bible. And that [Father’s Day] Sunday, you were teaching out of the Gospel of John, the only book of the Bible I'd ever read.  

Host: Wow. 

Guest: So, there's a lot of backstory to that. That was very interesting to me as I think back of my life. I remember sitting in that service, thinking that if I stayed, I'd never be the same. And that there was an overwhelming temptation of my flesh, my sinful nature, to run. But I didn't. And I definitely did not want to run down or raise my hand or receive. 

And you, by the way, were not known—at least the years I was there—for doing very many altar calls. It didn't happen on a consistent basis. Not that that's bad or good. 

It was obviously prompted. And Donna went forward with me, but she didn't get saved until a week later.  

Host: Okay. 

Guest: She was, didn't know what to do with me. She was a good Catholic girl that made the fatal mistake of falling in love with a practicing heathen boy. And we were married at that time, two years, by the time we came to Calvary Chapel Monterey Bay. 

But anyway, that's the storyline, the backdrop. She, after a week with me, after the first night, I had such an encounter with Christ that I had realized, I couldn't put down the Bible. 

Finally hearing from my Father, my Heavenly Father, for the first time in my life. It was a powerful moment. And I remember looking at her. 

I said, “You know, guess what, honey? I love Jesus more than you.” Well, that was probably not wisdom, you know? And she said, “That's it. Get out!” 

You know, and I went to the couch and we lived in a little converted garage in Carmel. And she, she prayed. She said, “Lord, either change me or I'm leaving.” And she received Christ that night. And so about a week later, she received Christ. And so when we came to church the second week, we were both saved. 

Host: Okay. I hadn't remembered that part. That's amazing. 

Guest: And the Lord blessed that in many ways. As a matter of fact, the Lord waited until we had children until we both got saved. My daughter now is 42 years old. 

Yeah. And so it's really cool to see that. And she serves in the church in Monterey, or rather in Hamilton, Montana. 

Host: Yeah, I saw her name on the website, her first name. Anyway, I didn't know her married name yet. Oh, that's awesome. 

That's a great story. And it fills in some blanks for me. It really does. 

But it's a nice segue into my next question. I mean, you had a hunger for the Word right from the get-go. And you answered, really the question is to how that hunger developed. 

I know for me, as a Catholic boy, I had I valued the Bible, but I never had read it for myself. I just heard it through the mass each Sunday. And so I valued it and I believed its authority. 

And so when I received Christ in Costa Mesa, and Pastor Chuck gave the invitation, it was authoritative because he was speaking right out of the Bible. So that that was the difference for me. But I still didn't get the memo that you should be reading this every day, until I joined that commune in Idaho, and was there for a few months. 

And there was very little to do but read the Bible, go to work each week, witness to people on the streets. I mean, you know, all the other entrapments of life were not in my life at that point. So I had the time. 

So that that stuck a habit was formed. And that's something that happened with you. What more can you say about that when your experience, because you got into the scripture for sure?  

Guest: Well, um, yeah, I think, you know, it's funny how you can look at your life's events and good, bad and indifferent. 

And you can view them as, I guess, out of your control, or that there's no plan or vision to them. And certainly, I'm not advocating a rough upbringing like I had. And I'm not. 

But it's, it's, it's the Joseph principle, what you meant for evil, God meant for good. And I look back now at 66 years of age, and I realized that not having a father and growing up without a father and any male influence my life, predominantly until I became a Christian was negative. So having that created a huge vacuum. 

I mean, when you're the only kid around that doesn't have a dad, and the one you have is beating the tar out of you. And I never called him dad. And then you become a believer.

I remember the day I worked in The Barnyard, if you recall, and one of my job as an apprentice goldsmith was to take the packages and go to the mailbox. And the time that I lived there, and this was again, early eighties, 79’ on, there was an open field there. And I was carrying the packages there.

And it was about a quarter mile, half mile walk kind of from where I was at. And I would walk there. And I would have my little pocket Bible. 

I'm a young guy. And I have my pocket Bible there. And I'm reading the Psalms. 

And I think it's Psalm 86, which says, I'm a Father to the fatherless. And I remember sitting in that field, just shocked. What that did for me was I realized now that I had a hunger to hear from my Dad. 

And the spirit in your heart cries, Abba, Father. And that day on Father's Day, when I became a believer, I got to talk to Dad. And reading his word was the message I could hear clearly at the time and being involved in Calvary Chapel Monterey Bay, where you taught verse by verse. 

I just couldn't get enough of Him. I'm an addict to hear from Him. And that kind of goes further with me. 

I never, in 35 years of being a senior pastor, I can say this. I never prepared one message to a congregation. I have not prepared one single Sunday morning, midweek, Monday night, anything. 

Have I ever prepared a message for a congregation? I have, however, sat at my Master's feet  and listened to my Dad speak to my heart many times a week. And all I had the privilege of doing was telling people what my Father had told me. And that's the hunger. 

And I don't know that I would have ever had that apart from my bad upbringing. Because I didn't institutionalize it. I didn't. 

It wasn't mechanical for me. It was 100% relational. I didn't study to teach. I studied to learn and grow. And that's still maintained. I still feel the same way. 

Host: “He that hears these words of mine and does them, I will show you whom he is like.” And you know, hearing it for the purpose of teaching, like you said, is not the way to do it. Hearing it for the purpose of growth and just hearing from the Father. 

I love that story. That's great, Dale. I mean, you know, we pastors, we, we confront that question a lot because of people that have bad father models, or destructive father models, you know, how do you, how do you connect with God, the Heavenly Father? You know, with the absence of an earthly father, and what happened with you is it was just by divine revelation, and then illumination of the scriptures, period. 

Guest: Yeah, very much so. Again, what I'm not advocating is to have my upbringing, but how God utilized that in such a way. I don't know that I become or have that apart from it. 

I'm not saying nobody else couldn't, but for me, I don't know I would ever got there. It's just like, having Donna in my life, I feel was the asphalt for the gospel. Without her in my life, I don't know that I become a believer.

Host: Yeah. Well, you mentioned that your experiences with men, with males was not good during that time before you came to Christ.  

But isn't it interesting, you became not only a disciple of the Father and of the Lord Jesus Christ, but you became a discipler, particularly of men. 

So, how the shift? What did that—what happened to make that happen?  

Guest: Well, again, I think I hit a particular time that God, who, you know, is the author and finisher of all of our faith, but He knew exactly where I needed to be and where I should be. And I hit a particularly interesting window of becoming a believer, Calvin Chapel Monterey Bay, and a particular interesting time, this is gonna be part of your story, when Cliff Staber came into your life. And, having that encounter with Cliff, although I knew Cliff, but not like you, he wasn't, he didn't disciple me, I didn't go through Barnabas with him or any of those things. 

But I was in the first, I think, group that you led... which was an odd story. I don't know if you remember the story. 

It's hilarious. But I was just this, there was a nickname for me in the early days of Calvary Chapel Monterey Bay, and it was John Mark. It was because I ran off half naked half the time. 

I was just a wild kid, you know, and not literally naked, but spiritually and emotionally, I was just all over the place. And you came and wanted to take me out to lunch or something at The Barnyard. And we went to eat. 

And you started talking about this discipleship thing. And, and you were just so matter of fact about all the different things. And, I was so positive saying, yes, yes, yes. 

And then you said, “Well, what do you think?” I said, “Well, how do I get there? How do I do it” “You get asked,” you said.” “Well, how do I get asked?” You said, “I just did.” And it was life changing for me. Getting involved in Barnabas, and I think I was maybe a year old in the Lord. You know, not much more than that, was like getting born again, again. The New Covenant and dying to self-centeredness. You know, understanding the principles of spiritual warfare, and how to be a godly man and what marriage ought to look like. 

You know, the problem that that created for me was a naivety. Because my church experience, my physical upbringing was horrible. My spiritual upbringing was absolutely phenomenal. 

The seven years in that church were remarkable. So that so much so that when I went anywhere else, I thought everybody had the same encounter I had had. And I had the reality that they didn't. 

And Barnabas, the discipleship material that originally was done by Ray Stedman. And I don't know if you knew, but I met Elaine. 

Host: You had told me that. That's a great story. 

Guest: And so, but I resurrected that about, I think, nine years, eight years, because I started pastoring Merced, and I couldn't figure out who those people were, that were listening to the church, they were just a mess. And I couldn't figure out what, why my encounter was so different than theirs. And it's not a superiority, I just realized there was something lacking that I needed to be doing. 

And so I went through. And if you remember, there wasn't any, anything that was Coleman's book, Master Plan of Evangelism. But other than that, it was I don't know, maybe there was some Xerox things here and there, there wasn't any real teachings, everything I had on it was handwritten notes that were nine years old. 

And that's what birthed the discipleship for me, was going through those notes, and then getting Authentic Christianity and plugging in the things that I quite didn't even know what I was writing about as a year old Christian.  

Host: So you mentioned Authentic Christianity, that's, for those that are listening to this, that's the the opus of Ray Stedman, Pastor Ray Stedman, who's in heaven. He wrote that, and he described it in the preface, this is the book that he has wanted to write above any other book that he had written. 

And it's a gem of an exposition of Second Corinthians two through six, describing what authentic new covenant, denial to self, let Christ live in and through me, life is all about. So that's what we're referring to when you mentioned Authentic Christianity. Thanks for bringing that up. 

Guest: Well, of course, there was the, when I passed all that over to Elaine Stedman, the final draft of Barnabas, which I reduced from a year to 13 weeks, because I couldn't get anybody commit to a year. Mine was a year. Yeah, remember that back then?  

She said, she recognized Ray all over it. I don't know if you knew Ray's background. It's very interesting.

 But Ray Stedman, well, he's Montana, but he was also mentored by two very interesting people, J. Vernon McGee and H.A. Ironside. So one of the things I like to do when I mentor men through Barnabas is to let them know that there's a pedigree, if you will, of men who have been mentored. And that they're part of it. 

Because sometimes there's a disconnect, I think, that where did this come from? And so I spend a little bit of time letting them know that, though I never personally met Ray Steadman, I did meet Elaine, had multiple phone conversations with her. Well, I think she's home with the Lord now, too. But an amazing lady. 

Host: Yeah, I never met Ray either. I would have loved to have done that. I didn't really think to do that. 

I didn't think of myself as being in that caliber of person that could meet him personally. But I've learned from Cliff that he's a very down-to-earth guy and all of that. So I value that pedigree myself personally, as you do. 

I mean, because then you've got J. Vernon McGee, H.A. Ironside influencing Ray Stedman, influencing Cliff Stabler, influencing me. So I look at myself as a great-grandson of Harry Ironside and J. Vernon McGee. I mean, it's kind of a weird way of looking at it. 

But there's a lot to draw from there. There really is. It gives you a sense of, you know, I'm part of something. 

Guest: Well, and that's, again, part of that whole discipleship element of it, that mentoring is really very relational. Yes, it's educational. And yes, it's experiential. 

And I'm not saying that those don't play a part in that, but it's highly relational. And Jesus isn't taught, He's caught. And I think theology is the same way. It can't be just book learned. It's lived out and practiced. And it's pouring your life, like I'm sure H.A. Ironside and J. Vernon McGee did to a young Ray Stedman. 

And I always saw myself as a Calvary guy, kind of a hybrid. As much Calvary and Ray Stedman kind of combined, because it ingrained me so much. Maybe it was because I was only a year old. Oh, Lord, I don't know. It's your fault, Bill. I don't know. 

Host: Well, I was the same way. I was the same way. I mean, I had Pastor Chuck as an influence over my life. I was under his ministry directly, but never on staff in Costa Mesa. Went out to a place far from Costa Mesa and started a church. So what was it going to look like? So the influences that were in my life were primarily Calvary Chapel, for sure. 

I knew, for lack of a better word, the vibe of a Calvary Chapel and the real heart or DNA of what a Calvary Chapel feels like and looks like. Dependence upon the Spirit, exposition of the Scriptures, fellowship, biblical fellowship. I knew those things. 

But these other influences like Cliff and then the relationship I had with the men in the church, they all shape us. And I think every pastor is a hybrid to some degree or another. Or at least they haven't realized how much of a hybrid they actually are. 

We are drawing from so many different sources to grow and learn. And that's all good. It's all good. 

So when I mentioned, you know, being a great grandson of Harry Ironside, I'm not saying that I'm not a son in the faith of Pastor Chuck. I believe that every bit as much. But being part of Calvary Chapel is important. 

But thank God for the other influences He gives us. So tell us the story of Bitterroot Valley because you, and I remember visiting you in Bitterroot Valley once, and you were explaining to me what was going on. And you told me about the Barnabas program that, and I'm using program, you know, in a healthy way, the Barnabas ministry that you had. 

And your goal was, you told me, to disciple every man in the church through this process. And, but you became very, very intentional. Tell us about that. 

How did that happen? Because intentionality is something that if we're not intentional, it doesn't happen.  

Guest: Right. Well, I think intentionality is often a birth necessity. 

The church had existed for, I think about that time, about 12 years. Even though I had already 17 years experience, that I took over. Actually, it was Pastor Chuck and Paul Smith as well that got me into there. 

And at the time, the church had, was the worst moral failing the church in the history of Calvary Chapel. So that's what I, in a town of 5,000. So it was not a good scenario. 

And I had a motto that the Lord gave me, outlive, out-love, outlast. Some of them wasn't outlast, you know, and I needed to model it. I needed to out-love the people that couldn't, I mean, it was a, it looked like a nuclear explosion in a mall. 

I mean, it was an absolute horrible scenario. And I realized that I needed to implement the things that I had been doing previously by investing in people. The problem was, is that you don't know the people at all. 

And so the initial groups of people I did was, they wanted a board-ran church and I wouldn't sign on to the deal, but I took everybody that was on the current board and discipled them, realizing that after 13 weeks, probably only a few of them would survive. Because I was, you know, they were going to discover that they weren't where they thought they were by just the simple teaching of the Word and discipling them. And sure enough, all of them resigned. 

And I was able to, from other guys that had discipled from that church, was able to select a small board that were like-minded.  

Host: You just described a huge situation that pops up in a lot of Calvary Chapels, where somehow there's a strong movement towards a board-run, elder-run church, and the senior pastor is effectively neutered from biblical leadership. But what you did was perfect. 

I love it. What a great example. I mean, although you didn't see all the outcome, I'm sure, but the fact that these guys all resigned, they couldn't hang in there with the reality of what real Christianity is, apparently, or something like that. 

Guest: They came to the conclusion themselves, and they all stayed in the church at the time, they came to the conclusion themselves that they were not called to be elders or board members. They did not have those qualifications, and I didn't have to tell them that or confront that, the 13 weeks of dying yourself. I always tell people this, as far as their own maturity level is concerned. 

I don't care who you are, what your theology is, your background. Every born-again Christian is motivated to grow closer to the Lord by two methodologies. One is far superior than the other. 

You're either driven or you're drawn. It's far better to be drawn. The goodness of God, the grace of God, the love of God enables us to say no to ungodliness. 

It's better to be drawn. Like your wife tells you, honey, well, you dumped the garbage. It's better to be drawn to that than driven to it. 

You know what I mean? There's a natural reality. But in our lives, if we're just honestly looking at it, I mean, if I think about this, what are the percentages that I'm drawn to maturity and growth versus I'm driven? I don't know about anybody else, but I would say if I was optimistic, it would at least be 80% of the time I'm driven and 20% I'm drawn. And that's a sanctification process. 

You know very well that God works in our human hearts in three distinct ways. Two of them are instantaneous, salvation and glorification. The third process is which the vast majority of the Bible, certainly the New Testament letters speak of, is sanctification, which is the process of dying to self or that He increases and I decrease. 

And that is motivated by being driven and drawn. And when you take guys that you're mentoring through that breaking process, where you are open about the brokenness that you need currently to go through, not the one you have already gone through. It's catching to people. 

They begin to see, they begin to notice that; they begin to long for it. I specifically got very, I would say intentional, your word, about who to select for that. I looked for three things that every Christian has at different varying times. 

I needed to find people who were teachable. They got to know they don't know. And I needed to find teachable people. 

Now we're all teachable at certain times, usually when we're broken. Something, a failed marriage, a failed business, health issues, whatever. But teachable. 

They got to know they don't know. Secondly, they got to be transparent. They got to be willing to admit they don't know. 

And then finally, I needed to find men that wanted to transfer the fact that they didn't know and that they were open about not knowing to other people. I looked for people who wanted to be mentors themselves. And I have done that for, I don't know, 500 people. 

And then realize that we don't ever graduate. I mean, it's not like, hey, I finished the course, I'm done. No, I mean, there's an insidious nature that every believer has, right? I mean, there's a self-protectionism that's good. 

If I throw a ball at your face or a dart or bowling ball at you, you're going to duck and move out of the way. That's self-preservation. We don't realize there's an insidious nature to our flesh of self-preservation of our own nature. 

Host: Yeah, right. One of the quotes that's in Authentic Christianity that I do remember verbatim, and I thought it was so profound, it's exactly what you're saying, Ray Stedman wrote, “nothing has contributed more to the present weakness of the church than its failure to understand the insidious nature of the flesh.” Wow. 

Guest: And that's every day. I mean, I tell people there's two essential enemies that we have. We have Satan, and we have the guy we see in the mirror every morning. 

And I can tell you which one's the most difficult to defeat. The guy I see in the mirror.  

Host: Yeah, I put it this way that, you know, for me, being filled with the spirit arises out of an emergency situation. And it's daily. It is daily.  

Guest: I got to get in the mirror every morning, and I look at the guy in the mirror facing me, and I say, you got to go. 

I am sick of you. I got to make sure Denise is in the room when I do that. I'm tired of you. 

Lord, I give you the permission. I want to yield to your work today. This attitude, this action, this arrogance has got to end. 

It's keeping me for the one that loves me the most. You know, when Cliff led us through Barnabas, and you weren't part of one of Cliff's groups, but I think we continued that approach with just our fellowship in Monterey. But it wasn't something that he ever really explicitly talked about, but he modeled it. 

It was transparency like you just said. We were transparent with each other. It was the most raw place that I had been in up to that time as a Christian, where I could just let it out. 

You know, what I was thinking, what I was feeling, my failures, which is a little bit of a gamble when you're the senior pastor of the church. But there had to be a level of transparency. How did you continue that in the Bitterroot with 13 weeks?  

Guest: Same thing. You know, exactly being open and honest and transparent. You know, it's interesting. The guy that replaced me now in Hamilton, in Bitterroot Valley Calvary Chapel, is named Bill Daly. 

And Bill was in Seattle, it's where I met Bill, when Donna was in the Seattle Cancer Care Alliance. And a very interesting story behind all that, but I met him, and I ended up discipling him when Donna was going through her cancer and then her stem cell transplant. And he'll tell you, he tells me all the time, he says, I watched you live it out, not knowing whether your bride would die between our one meeting each week for 13 weeks. 

I think that kind of reality of people, if they don't see us living it out, we're not people who have arrived. We're people who are teaching others to walk the same road we are. We may be on a different part of that track, but we're on the same track. 

And I think that's part of that intentionality you said. I think there's far too many servants of Christ who are more impressed with what they're doing for God than what God has done for them and continues to do for them.  

Host: Yeah, wow. 

Guest: Showing that to people is the greatest, and that's what happened to me. That's exactly the encounter I had that you described that you intentionally went through with Cliff, I went through with you guys. And of course, my mucker was Don Scott. 

But I had Steve Braselton in that group. Just great. I mean, they're the first men that I knew actually loved me. 

I'd never had that encounter. It's life changing. And so that's probably what spun it off in my own life. 

Host: Oh, love to hear that. Well, you've provided a good segue to my next question, Dale. And that is, you had mentioned Donna and her passing, and she did go home to be with the Lord in 2019. 

But now you're living in Navarre, Florida, with your wife, Denise. And since that time, you've had a lot going on in your life. Would you like to share with us some of that story?  

Guest: It has to do with Donna's health. 

I don't know if you knew this about all of that, but I never heard the words, I love you, until I was 17 years old. And the first person that said that was Donna. And to say that she was and is one of the most important people in my life would be an understatement. 

She was my best friend. Remarkably, even before we both became believers, I think she just unconditionally loved me. I don't know why she would have bothered, but she did. 

She was more beautiful on the inside than she was on the outside. And she was just a knockout on the outside. So I was blessed to have her in my life and share life with her and ministry with her. 

We were best friends. And it was an honor to be with her during her illness that eventually gave her a glorified body. But I realized that her illness provided for me one of the things that I think led to Denise. 

And that was Donna provided for me the gift of now. That I wasn't living in a futuristic sense, that this could be my last day. And I wanted to make everybody I'm around this. I wanted to live like with you. This is the last day I have. Donna gave me that gift and the Lord did. 

So it was a tremendous gift. I don't live for tomorrow. I live now. 

This is my last day. And I treat everyone as if it's my last day. I don't want words unsaid. 

So when she died in 2019, August 18th, 2019, I was devastated. Not in a sense of she died at home. We were there. 

And she went home to the Lord and I knew it. There was part of me that was elated. But my soul was ripped in two. 

Again, the loss was devastating. I was barely able to function. I actually did a couple of things that I'd heard guys say to me through, you know, pastoral counseling and ministry was that don't get back into things right away. You know, heal, learn to grieve and so on.  

And so I did that. I didn't do the memorial service right away. And I went away. I went away for five weeks alone to a place where I was kind of around people. But because I didn't really I was going through a lot of stuff emotionally. 

I was concerned that I would do this stupid thing. And so I centered myself around people. But I was just by myself for I think about two weeks completely. 

And letting the Lord heal the damage of losing somebody that your soul was bonded to. And that was a God thing. So when I came back from that and the Lord began to speak in my heart, probably within a few months that He hadn't called me to be single. 

I had a great plan. I was just going to serve the Lord as a single guy. I had never I'd only dated one woman in my whole life when I married her. 

I was 17 when I dated her. At that time, you know, I'm 60 what? 61 years old. I've never dated anybody. 

I'm a pastor in a small church. And the Lord begins to speak to me. All right, you haven't been called to be single. 

And I had this argument. I kept on arguing back with him and said, No, this is a word. And I mean, I had all the reason for it. 

You know, who's he dating now in a small church, you know, in a small community is not I mean, I couldn't go to the grocery store, people didn't know who I was. And so finally, I think around six months, eight, eight months or so after Donna had passed, the Lord spoke to me, and said, “Either I'm Lord of all your life, or I'm Lord of none of it, choose wisely. Your personal life doesn't belong to you, it belongs to Me.” 

And I heard it, I listened. And then I said, “Well, I don't know how I'm going to do this.” And so Bill, who's now the pastor, said, “Well, you know, I could write you a bio, you could go on one of those dating app things.” 

And I think, well, that kind of makes sense. I could. So I decided I was going to do that. 

But we wrote out the most evangelical dating app ever. And my goal, quite frankly, was anybody respond, I'd give them the gospel. I mean, it was only Christian women, supposedly only born again. 

I mean, it was I mean, it was crazy how it was. And, and, you know, I thought nobody's gonna bother. I really didn't. 

You know, the way this particular site was to work that you're supposed to have these profile things, and you could select or whatever. And I really didn't care a whole lot about any of it. But what I wasn't prepared for was four to six people wanting to date me a day. 

I had no understanding of that. It was totally naive.

Some of the things that they were saying, and writing. I cannot repeat. I wrote a paragraph up and shared it with my daughter. 

And I said, “The next person that responds to me is going to get this paragraph.” And the next person responded was Denise, your present wife. Yes, she got the paragraph. 

And she spent she goes, I find that very refreshing, your transparency, your honesty. And we begin to communicate in the first day or so. I, you know, just there was no, no FaceTime like we're having right now. 

None of that. But we begin to communicate by email, had great conversations. And I think the Lord was beginning to meld my heart towards her and hers towards mine. 

On day two, she can tell the story so much better than I can. On day two, she had a dream. And in the dream, she was in a field of flowers. 

And this woman, beautiful woman began to walk beside her and grab her hand. And they just walked and didn’t say word. And finally, the woman turned to her and said, take care of him. 

And she says, I will. And she says, say it out loud. And she woke up saying it out loud. 

She was blown away by that and went to the website and it was Donna. Wow, I don't know what to make of any of that. Because clearly, Jesus doesn't need Donna depicted by a guy. 

Wow. But anyway, I wouldn't let her tell me that story. She said, I have something to tell you. 

I don't want to hear it. It's like day two, day three. I said, I don't want to hear it. 

I said, I don't want any dreams. I don't want to hear anything about anything. The Lord's going to speak to me or I'm not going to hear it. 

And so anyway, by about day seven or eight, we began to communicate by phone. I was falling in love with her. The Lord was doing her miraculous work. 

And I finished a Wednesday night's teaching. The Lord spoke to my heart and at night and said, that's your wife. And I said, OK, I'm thinking a year or two years from now, maybe. 

And the Lord says, you're going to marry her tomorrow. And I said, I can't do that. You know, it's like, Bill, you've gone through things in your life. 

So have I. When I lost Donna, and she went home with the Lord, all I had left was my family and ministry. I had nothing. And the Lord was asking me to put that on the altar. 

That was my Isaac. Because there was a great chance that the church would not understand this. And my family wouldn't, my daughter, my son. 

But the Lord convinced me that I needed to be obedient. I say this, it's probably not the most romantic thing, but losing Donna was a lot easier than marrying Denise, because Denise was 100% obedience. I didn't have a choice in losing Donna. 

I had a choice in marrying Denise. And it was 100% obedience. Yes, it was love. 

So 10 days after meeting her for the first time on the phone, having no FaceTime with her and only verbal conversations, I drove four hours to Great Falls, Montana, met her for the first time. And 30 minutes later, we were married and I kissed her for the first time in 10 days.  

Host: You've told me this story already on the phone. 

But for people that are listening to this, Dale, they're going, what did I just hear? I mean, it's a great story, because it was a God story. It was really a God story. We have an arranged marriage. 

I think everybody does. But I have an arranged marriage. Mine was very arranged by the Holy Spirit. 

Now, we've been married four years now. We're very much in love and we're best friends. And by the way, Donna is a conversation we have with probably almost daily.

She's a part of, still part of that in our lives. Denise and my daughter are great friends. And the Lord said, miraculously said, Denise travels to the missions. 

Donna didn't like traveling. So it was, I've said this before, that Donna was the right person for me for the years until the Lord took her home. And Denise is the right person for me now. 

And I'm not, they're not a comparison, right? They're remarkable women. And I am, I've been gifted twice. And I'm so blessed to have that. 

So that's the story that, and I'll say this, I'm not advocating this. I will admit that it's unconventional by human standards and by American standards, but I will, I will argue until I'm blue in the face … what I did was biblical. 

The first kiss happened after I do. And by the way, it was the most miraculous experience I've ever had in my life. When I kissed Denise, it was like I had amnesia and all of a sudden everything came back. 

I was having a spiritual encounter after kissing her, after I said, I do, that was, I still to this day, it's the most remarkable thing that's ever really happened to me in that kind of a sense. Because it's like I had known her my whole life and it just flooded back. And it was, it was a gift. 

And I, you know. 

Host: Congratulations, brother. I mean, what a great story. Proverbs 18:22 times two. I mean, in your life, you know, that doesn't always happen. So that's great. 

I don't know that I'll get a whole lot of requests now to do any marriage retreats though.  

Host: Well, you know, all of the right elements are there. I mean, the difference is just the length of time. 

That's it. You know, all the right elements are there. So as we were sharing a couple of weeks ago, Dale, you told me about a project that was going on. 

So we're segueing from that amazing story to another amazing story here. But you told me about a project which has been launched that is providing Bible study commentary for pastors and Christians all over the world in 105 languages. And the website is scripturesupply.com. So that's the introduction to what you can talk about now. 

What is it? How did it happen? So it's actually in 103 different languages. And the reason why people say, why 103? Because these are the 99.9% of all internet is in those 103 languages. So it's not all the different languages. 

There's 103 that are the common percentage-wise. And that's why it's 103. So really what happened was that none of it was intentional. 

This is a thing that God just works. As a pastor, I couldn't work very well off of just outlines or bullet points. For whatever reason, I needed to write everything out. 

And that began as I started teaching multiple studies a week, I would have to do it. And of course, in the original days, it was all handwritten. First, maybe a year and a half. 

And then I got a dot matrix e-machine computer and started typing things out with two fingers kind of a thing. And I just maintained keeping those notes. And I loved, as I said already, being in the Word. 

It was just like hearing from my Father. And so whatever book I was studying in the Bible was my new favorite book. That's what Denise asked me. 

What's your favorite book or passage in the Bible? I said, the one I'm reading now. It's never been a particular book or anything. So anyway, I just had maintained that practice for years and years and then saved them all on my computer with no really intention of doing anything else with it. 

But there was indications early on, even when I was in Merced, we started putting my notes on our website years and years and years ago when I was in Merced, so 20 years ago. And I would get this phone call from a guy from India that found our website was using my notes to preach the gospel in India. First, I thought it was a joke. 

I mean, I'm nobody from nowhere. So there was a usefulness in these notes beyond just myself. And then after Denise and I were married, we started doing more and more outreach and people would come up to me at conferences and stuff. 

Can I have your notes? Can I have your notes? And, you know, we began to realize there was a need. And especially, we American pastors are just spoiled. We can get G. Campbell Morgan, Chuck's notes. 

We have everything available in English. And most of these material is in the Blueletter Bible. All of it's out there and we can get it readily. 

And if what we need to purchase, we can purchase. But indigenous pastors, pastors in foreign lands in their own native language cannot. They're usually bi-vocational. 

Ninety percent or better are bi-vocational. So they can't afford it if it was even available. And if they could afford it, there's probably not available. 

And so what we did was we took all of my notes, 65, well, 66 books. I'm working on Luke now. And put them out on the website. 

And then there's this, I don't know if it's artificial intelligence or what it really technically is, but it instantly translates in any language. And we made it a hundred percent free. There's no subscription price. 

You don't even need to email me. I don't care what you do with the notes. Study from them, teach from them, put your name on them. 

I could care less. We just want to be utilized to bless people. And so it's a hundred percent. 

We don't take a donation. I mean, people want to, I think there's a site on there, but we don't, we're not asking for anything from anybody. And so a lot of churches, both American and in the international front, have that website now on their homepages so that people can grab them. 

And so I don't know if you've seen the site, but it's...  

Host: Oh, I've seen it. Yeah, I went to the site. It's impressive. 

It's easy to navigate, easy to find what you're looking for. So are you finished with the whole Bible on Scripture Supply? 

Guest: Well, let me explain that. There's two basic studies there, three really. 

But two, there's one commentaries, like if you go to the New Testament, all the books of the New Testament, except for Luke, which I'm writing now, is a full commentary. For instance, Hebrews, the Hall of Faith is eight weeks for me to teach through that. It's a vast, 24 different studies just in that alone. 

So very in-depth, those kind of commentaries you'll find in the completed New Testament, as well as many of the First Testament, like Genesis, Exodus, Joshua, Judges, many of those as well. But what is made up that isn't that is what is called, I call an overview. And it's an interesting story. 

But when I first started pastoring people, I was pastoring and Merced said, I don't know why we need to read the Old Testament. How do I see Jesus in the book of Haggai anyway? Well, that kept on being repeated after a few years. And it took me four or five years to read every book in the Bible and reduce it down to a paragraph. 

And I called it Jesus in the books of the Bible. John Bonner had used it before. Other guys have taken it, I just gave it away. 

When I got to Montana, he said, well, these are great, but there's only a paragraph. I'd like to have more information. So I went through the First Testament again, and made a more, still an overview. 

And that's what's available on the other books of the First Testament that are not full commentaries. So they can get enough information to help them in their study, but it's not a full commentary like Genesis or Exodus or Matthew, Mark, John, Acts are all full commentaries. And some of them, quite frankly, date back to 25 years ago. 

Host: Well, I know you study the Bible inductively. So when they're reading your full commentaries, they're learning how to think in observation, interpretation, application. They're learning that from your commentary. 

So they can just take the outline overviews of the other books and apply that process to the way they study through Exodus and the other places. So I think you've got a great resource there. 

Guest: I think one of the things that I say about my notes, there are a lot of great expositor teachers. 

And some of the theology we would readily agree with, some of the original language stuff, Kenneth Wiest, I highly recommend, but he's a Calvinist. So you got to chew the meat, spit out the bone kind of guys. And that's true of a lot of stuff. 

I won't go all the different commentaries, but I found with expositor teachers, there are guys that teach verse by verse that were what I call predominantly informational teachers. Nothing wrong with that. They give solid biblical information, but there's no exhortation. 

They're not exhortational teachers. And I would be more of an exhortational teacher. There's information there, but I'm more of what I would say a devotional commentary. 

Because that's how it relates to me personally. I don't want to just know what to do, I want to be motivated to do it. And so that comes across in those commentaries. 

In other words, you're not going to get the warm and fuzzies. It's not going to be one of those. So instead of eat the meat, spit out the bones, it's more like eat the heart and spit out the gristle. 

Yeah, and I'm sure that people can utilize it again any way they want. Typically, when I did my studies, I would use six to a dozen different commentaries, 20 plus hours per study. But I just love to study. 

I prefer studying. I never much cared to teach, to be honest with you. I never did an oral book report until I became a Christian. 

Host: There you go, and you did one several times a week. That's right. Yeah, that's great. 

Wonderful. You know, sharing this about scripturesupply.com gives all the pastors, and it is international, that will listen to this, a resource to give to the missionaries that they're involved with. And so I'm happy about that. 

And because of the linguistic availability that this site provides, it's exceptional. I've never seen anything like it. So way to go and way to release all of this, Dale. 

It's not aimed at anything coming back to you, which I think is so awesome. It reminds me of Dan Finfrock, who did the same thing with IBS. You know, his materials, he wants them to be used. 

You know, he's not interested in the building up of an empire or anything like that. 

Guest: But for me, I had this vision in mind. I wanted to create something that was going to be useful for the kingdom. 

And in so doing, I wanted to do so in a way that people would never remember my name and never forget his.  

Host: Oh, there you go. That's it. 

“So hey, did you like Dale Lewis's commentary through the Bible? I don't know. I love this scripturesupply.com website. I don't have any idea who Dale Lewis is.” 

Guest: Amen. And that's okay. That would be wonderful. 

Host: Well, you know, Dale, we're at the point where we need to land the plane here, but it's been great. You have something you want to share with pastors just briefly, you know, directly to them that are listening to this?  

Guest: I would say this, and we had a little conversation prior to this, but irrespective of where you're pastoring, how long you've been pastoring, I think that, you know, the word for day might be intentional. And I would really want to exhort the pastors to look at succession and take it seriously in their ministry and pour into men now. 

Because, you know, live for now and pour into people. We do a lot of things in ministry that are all important, you know, budgets and buildings and all the Bs, right? But we're called to come alongside people and walk them to a place that maybe they don't even know they're supposed to be at. And pouring into people with, again, the teachable, transparent, transference mentality, investing in those people that are the next generation. 

If we don't do that intentionally, God will continue to work, but He won't work through us. We'll lose the privilege of being, partnering with Him. And so I want to just exhort them to pour into people. 

You know, there's resources out there. I mean, Navigators, you know, there's a boatload of stuff. But spending time with people, have a daily staff meeting with people, pour into people, look for men that you can pour into. 

They're everywhere.  

Host: Yeah. And if they're not in a church already, praying for those men to come. 

It's not if you build it, they will come. But if you have that intention, the Lord will bring those kinds of people to you. Yeah. 

Example right here. I came here within the first week I came to Calvary Chapel, Navarre. I was asked to disciple the guy at the lunch table asked me if I would disciple him. 

Nobody knew my name. Last year, I've discipled 12 men. And that is the entire pastoral staff and board of this church. 

You can't run from it if you're intentional.  

Host: So a couple of questions, Dale, and these will be brief. The Barnabas curriculum. 

Yes. You still have it. It's in digital format. 

I have a copy of course, myself in my on my computer. And it's going to be on Scripture Supply. It's going to be on Scripture Supply. 

Pastors are listening to this podcast. They've heard a little bit about it. They don't know everything there is to do to know about how to actually do this. 

Any willingness? I'm sure there is, but I have to ask it anyway. Can't assume this. Would you be willing to coach some guys through this, how to use this curriculum?  

Guest: Yes, I would love to do that. 

I actually did that at a pastors conference in San Jose, Costa Rica in July. So I definitely could walk them through that. And that's what they had me do at that conference. 

Well, I know you're a very technical wife, Denise, would be able to help you put together some Zoom calls. But I'd like to help you with that and get that facilitated. That's really a good thing. 

And then what do you think about maybe even doing a Barnabas group with some pastors over Zoom? I know it's not the same as being in person. There's limitations, but it's better than not having anything at all.  

Guest: Yeah, I would love to do that. 

Actually, there's a group again in Costa Rica with the Latin pastors that I think about a dozen guys that it's in the wings to do. I haven't followed up with what their season for that is, but they requested that I would disciple several pastors in Central America. Okay. 

All right. Well, that's great. I would be very open to do that. 

Host: Okay. So anybody listening to this podcast, there's an opportunity for you to be coached through this Barnabas curriculum, which is tried and tested and true. It's not the curriculum that's doing it. 

It's the Holy Spirit that's doing it through the truth that's in the curriculum. And so you've got an opportunity to get coached in this, especially if you don't have a history of being intentional with discipling men. And then even going through the whole thing yourself. 

So to do that, the announcer at the close of this podcast will give you ways to contact us, and we will put you in the loop with Pastor Dale, and we'll see what happens. But those are options. So we've got scripturesupply.com. We've got these opportunities to become equipped, to become equippers. 

And this has been so worth the price of admission just already, Dale, and the podcast hasn't even been released yet.  

Guest: And not to mention, how to get married in 10 days. Yeah, how to get married in 10 days. 

Host: Yeah, yeah. There should be a movie. This sounds like a movie. 

But you're right about the arranged marriage, and I love the way you described that. It was an arranged marriage. I've been to India and other countries where they actually do arrange marriages. 

But when God arranges the marriage, it works out well.  

Guest: Yes, I wouldn't trade a single part of it.  

Host: The very first wedding was an arranged marriage. 

Adam didn't even know that a woman existed.  

Guest: I see, Rebecca, you can go on down the line. Mary and Joseph pretty much arranged marriage. 

They all were. It's funny the response, I'll just finish with this. Women think it's the most romantic thing they've ever heard. 

Men think I'm absolutely crazy. I don't know the two responses. At least I'm talking about American men anyway. 

Host: Dale, if I didn't know you as I do, I would have said it was crazy. But I know you're a calculated, intentional man who listens for the voice of God and listens to the voice of God. So I am just happy as I can be with it, and I love it. 

I think it's great. Thanks again for joining us, Dale. It's been really delightful to have this conversation with you, and thanks for sharing your heart. 

It's been a blessing. 

 Guest: Thank you for having me.  

Host: You are welcome. 

So Poimen Ministries is a team of retired from their senior pastorates that are now serving other pastors that their churches may be strong. If you'd like to reach out to one of our team, the announcer will give you the details on how to do that. And until next time, may the Lord bless, encourage, and enable you in one of God's greatest callings upon a man's life to shepherd and feed the flock of God. 

In Jesus' name, amen. May the Lord bless you as you serve Him, His pastors, and His church.