The Early Tough Lessons in Ministry

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[00:00:13] Those lessons can crush us or they can cause us to grow

[00:00:17] Like one of the scriptures that wrote Mary Red right?

[00:00:20] They can as we self reflect on those decisions and we sometimes they make us re-evaluate our priorities or methods or our philosophies

[00:00:29] It can cultivate compassion and empathy, you know so there's so much to learn

[00:00:34] So much growth opportunities from these hard lessons if we learn them

[00:00:39] Hey and welcome to When She Leads a podcast for Women in Ministry

[00:00:42] I'm your host Brenda Leavenworth and I want to consider the complexities and realities of leading as a woman in ministry together

[00:00:50] Kelly and Rose Mary from Team When She Leads are with me today. Hi guys. Hi there

[00:00:57] And we do we have a great topic that we're discussing today

[00:01:02] The early tough lessons in ministry

[00:01:06] Yeah, I don't know we're all going to be fighting for that

[00:01:09] Fighting for the mic on this one because there's so many

[00:01:13] Ministry is hard and especially in those early years when you're just starting now

[00:01:17] It's whether you're helping plant a church, whether you're helping plant a ministry or maybe taking over a church or maybe just starting a ministry on your own

[00:01:27] It most likely it's going to kick your butt

[00:01:31] If I can say that so between the three of us

[00:01:36] I think we've learned some tough early lessons and we hope it will bring hope and encouragement

[00:01:44] And most of all that you will know you are not alone in these feelings so

[00:01:52] And these lessons are still being learned

[00:01:55] Yes over and over. Oh my goodness. Yes. Yeah, it doesn't end Tom

[00:02:01] Who's going up? Okay, I'll do one of my first one

[00:02:05] Yeah, I told Rosemary yesterday I have like 50 so we're not gonna go with all the better

[00:02:10] I think early on one of my tough lessons to learn was not to let people at my church define who I was or define my role as a pastor's wife that

[00:02:26] Because early on, I mean we're in our 20s you know and we just I didn't have a mentor. I didn't have anyone helping

[00:02:34] I didn't really know anything so I just felt like whatever was told me I was supposed to do and I'm supposed to please everybody

[00:02:42] And so I feel like early on I was trying to let them define who I was

[00:02:47] And it took me a while to I don't know if it's a right expression come into myself and understand that my job description comes from the Lord

[00:02:54] I needed to obviously listen to things like that but that God was to define me he was my identity not being their pastor's wife and that I was supposed to use my own gifts and talents

[00:03:08] And calling he had gave me a purpose and I was supposed to go after that and that I didn't have to let them all define me. I don't know, did you guys do with that? I did for a long time. Yeah

[00:03:19] Never. Yeah, you're kidding right so did you did you start ministry as a pastor's wife? No, we got saved like right when I was 18 and then in a

[00:03:31] See and then after a few years after we got married we moved out to where we are and we joined the church and we just jumped into ministry and then wow

[00:03:41] Brian became like assistant pastor and then he took over and so almost all of our time has been with me being a pastor's wife

[00:03:52] And again I wasn't saved growing up didn't come from a Christian home and didn't grow up in quote church so not really have an understanding of what it was supposed to look like

[00:04:01] I knew I didn't have to play the organ that was an easy one but it was like we would go to these conferences and listen to the other pastors life talk about what to do and I thought I have to do that.

[00:04:11] I have to do that I have to do that and then in a small church I think it's might be different in a big church but when we were really small everybody felt like

[00:04:20] I felt they all felt like they could speak into my life in every area what I was wearing how I was parenting how I what my marriage looked like

[00:04:31] Instead of looking at their own stuff they all wanted to tell me what I should be doing and that was pretty difficult

[00:04:37] And so it was a lesson that I did have to learn like I'm gonna be a pastor's wife that sounds so fun

[00:04:45] Yeah, I did not know oh my yeah, you know, I'm actually gonna talk about when the big lessons I learned was one that you mentioned was how to not make who I am my identity based upon what I do for God

[00:04:59] And I think that's super important. I even remember just talking to Nick once when we were on the mission field and we were church planning

[00:05:09] And just you know struggling with having maybe just two people show up and trying to evangelize and all these things putting our whole hearts into this

[00:05:19] And I just remember this moment at the kitchen table and he was really struggling and I remember telling him that, you know what you do is not who you are

[00:05:30] And it was just very eye opening and very freeing I think because our identity is based on what the Bible says upon what God says, you know who we are that were his child and just all these wonderful things in the Bible

[00:05:44] So our identity is not wrapped up in what we do

[00:05:47] Rosemary was that?

[00:05:50] I get that in theory but I think I feel like that's hard to work out because did you guys find it hard to work out because I feel like marriage, ministry, family it's all sort of like this big I don't want to say not because that's kind of this big tangled mess

[00:06:06] But it interweaves

[00:06:09] So I do know what you mean and I think that's what happens is that we do come home with our, you know what happened at church that day and we bring it home we talk about it and you know

[00:06:23] That's how it's hard to just separate this and I believe that it's important to have a separation from who you are to what you do and it's a lot of your self talk like you know sometimes the church struggles or you have a problem and you feel like a failure

[00:06:37] And that's when you need to talk to yourself and say no I'm not a failure in Christ like this whole thing happening is separate from who I am

[00:06:45] And you need to really have a good healthy self talk not to let those things that happen in the ministry affect your feelings and take you down

[00:06:55] Because it is hard to separate but it really does come from just purposefully not letting it take you down and ruin your day and just remembering who you are in Christ. I remember just having to separate ministry from who I am and having so important a part of that is having my own personal time with the Lord and my relationship with God

[00:07:19] Not oh I'm a pastor's wife I have to read the Bible or oh I'm a ministry leader I better do these things but just saying these are things I want to do I want to read my Bible for my personal growth and you need to have a Sabbath separation and a time of rest your family, you know you have children and I hear so many stories about children growing up in the church but I make sure I think it's important to separate that that church is dad's ministry, dad's job

[00:07:48] And we are a part of that church but it is not who we are so my children I make sure they have hobbies and things that they enjoy just a life that's not just church.

[00:08:02] And having this whole identity I think is really basic it's so important that you don't tie up who you are with what you do because there will be days of struggle and ministry and that shouldn't make your emotions go up and down your face go up and down and you know come home and trash your family because you had a bad day and these kinds of things.

[00:08:26] So it's really important to be able to separate that. I think it's so important I think everyone well maybe not everyone struggles with the identity when when you are so I mean I did that a lot when I was a runner or this or that it just became who you were and if that was taken away as things are different seasons in your life if it's all hooked on what you do and you don't do that anymore.

[00:08:46] I think that's a hard one as a pastor's wife because you know you've been doing this 40 years of 30, been rosemary been around the block for some time it's like to not have that.

[00:09:01] I see this in people who the pastor goes to be with the Lord and then the wife is in the pastor's wife anymore and it's a it's a real thing it's like well who am I now and I think you pointed out something really practical rosemary that just having hobbies outside having friendships making sure that there's time where we go and just have fun like my husband I together where we're not talking about church where you know churches and involve those are some of the things that like I think can help give us a lot of time.

[00:09:31] I think that's a lot of us like that breath like just a time like you said a sabbath a time away that rhythm of taking some time to ourselves.

[00:09:40] You know you get into positions and as a pastor in his wife like oh have we prayed together just for our marriage for our children like you know you get so busy in doing these things.

[00:09:54] My number one was just thinking one of the early lessons that I learned was ministries not fair and I think sometimes it's not like that.

[00:10:05] Don't tell me this friend that was like something that as a leader like sometimes we're going to have to bear the brunt because at the end of the day no one carries us on their shoulders like my husband carries

[00:10:20] on his shoulders and sometimes that just comes with like taking one for the team.

[00:10:26] I have I wrote that that no one will have the same kind of ownership as we do and early on thinking expecting everyone else to this is family why could they do that why aren't they doing that and then understanding like you said it's our our ministry our burden our calling and it is what it is and no one else does shoulder that.

[00:10:47] Sometimes when people don't see it that's why I mean by taking the brunt it's like we're not going to announce that yeah we're not going to like wear that on our face it's just like sometimes that burden were the ones that are going to carry it.

[00:11:02] Yeah.

[00:11:04] But Jesus is the one truly carrying it.

[00:11:07] Yeah, but sometimes it feels heavy as a person like that there's a responsibility there's an authority that goes with it you want to do it well you want to represent the Lord right and you know those can be heavy heavy I know he ultimately carry the burden but like those are heavy responsibilities I guess not that we're carrying Christ burden but we're yeah.

[00:11:33] I think the position I think one of the early lessons to I hadn't thought about because I knew well I didn't realize the size of the fishbowl that we swim in and I didn't count that cost because I didn't know anything but I didn't realize that my kids would really live in it to and that my kids would be judged and have to live in this fish bowl.

[00:11:55] It was a good early lesson to like what you said make sure their identity wasn't in the church and because people then back then they felt like they should speak into my children's lives and my daughter well who's I almost said which kid I or I did just say it but it was like someone was coming to her or rebuke her she's a kid for something and this person's life was all messed up in their family was all messed up and everybody knew it and she's like what why are they talking to me about this why are they looking at their own family

[00:12:24] and that happened many times when we were starting out and a good lesson that we learned was how to shield them better from that, how to you know you aren't you are a pastor's kid but first and foremost you are a child of God and you know how that looks like and help them learn how to navigate through the fishbowl so we learned some hard lessons.

[00:12:47] This is why this is why when we get to church my kids split they run off and they don't want to be seen with me.

[00:12:54] I let them though it's so hard because I remember youth pastors telling my kids like you should be a better example to the youth and I'm saying man they're trying to work out like I'm just trying to work out a character issue in their life.

[00:13:08] I want to say one lesson that I had and this was kind of funny you know I went on the mission field I arrived in a large city in Hungary in Dubretson and I remember thinking yeah I'm going to change the world.

[00:13:24] And when I arrived there it was such a big city and nobody stopped and looked at me everyone just went about their business and I realized how small I am and that no one really cared what I was doing.

[00:13:36] It was a little bit harsh but you know I was like I'm here now.

[00:13:41] I didn't have nobody cared yeah it was a big deal to me but not really to anybody else so I'll just say that.

[00:13:48] I mean the church was happy to have my help and I was there but it was just a good humbling to realize that this is not about me.

[00:13:57] And I think that's a very important lesson to take that ministry is not about us.

[00:14:02] Right.

[00:14:03] It's about Jesus and I always take what Ephesians 412 says that's just one of my favorite verses on ministry where the job of the people doing ministry says to prepare God's people for works of service so that the body of Christ may be built up.

[00:14:21] And that's what we're supposed to do so we're not supposed to try and have like platform or you know glory and attention but we're going there to serve and servants are humble people.

[00:14:35] Yeah.

[00:14:36] And early lesson that I can't fix everything because in the beginning I tried any issue that someone came to you know or complained about a church whatever again that goes back to trying to please everyone but I just wanted to be able to fix everything

[00:14:49] and that was a hard lesson to learn I will never be able to fix it's not my job.

[00:14:53] I'm not the fixer and I can't you can't meet everybody's needs and your church can't that was a big one to our church can't meet everyone's needs.

[00:15:03] You want to you don't want anyone to be unhappy whatever their need is you think you should fill it in at the time we were really small in our valley there was another church down the road that was kind of bigger and everybody would say oh to bad you're not like so and so to bad you're not like so and so.

[00:15:18] And so they said it all the time and you're just like oh maybe we're supposed to be like so and so well then when we grew it went back oh I wish you were small again because now you know it's not so intimate and it was a huge lesson and a good reminder that you know what you can't win.

[00:15:32] You do it God's called you to do I'm not going to be them I'm not going to be them I'm not going to be reliance we are who we are and God will add and subtract from the church as he will and to do what we feel called to do and that's all.

[00:15:46] So those were some good lessons that I think we can still all struggle with sometimes you see a church doing something they're like they're rocking it you know and you're like well I want to do that and maybe we don't have the staffing or the finances or the money or whatever to do it or you're not supposed to or not as opposed to for you to take so much prayer.

[00:16:07] Yeah couple things that I think about is one is early on allowing the Holy Spirit to do the work in the people yeah that I wanted to like rush some growth and probably my own.

[00:16:21] Yeah that reminded me of it is like oh what was the lesson in that for me and it was like allow the Holy Spirit to work in people's lives the change comes over time it doesn't come immediately but a big one for me was staying the course even when I felt like giving up early on or others wanted me to quit early on so many people like you sure you're supposed to plan a church might know we're not sure but God told us to do this over here.

[00:16:49] And I've heard people saying this this really spoke to me we were meeting with some young pastors couple weeks ago and they were reminding us that like you know it takes about five years.

[00:17:02] Like when you're starting a new work like given five years you know that's not like a whole fast and hard rule but it was like people want to give up after six months the church is growing we're not doing this I think it goes back to something you said Kelly takes like five years just to let.

[00:17:19] Like find your voice like who are we what's our what are we going to be I don't know I just think that like don't get up don't quit yeah.

[00:17:29] You know just I was thinking I had wanted to read out of second Timothy chapter four and there's such good things to read anywhere but here he says in verse two preach the word be prepared in season and out of season and then if you go down to verse five he says keep your head in all situations endure.

[00:17:48] And I think it's something we need to remember that hardship is going to happen and those who want to live a godly life in Christ Jesus will be persecuted but you know in ministry there's hardship and we need to go in prepared for that and not be surprised when it happens.

[00:18:07] I don't think I saw that coming you know you thought you had friends and that helps and it's like what happened and the loneliness I don't know if I was prepared for that so that was a lesson early on that that leadership is lonely.

[00:18:24] It's like you and they like you until they don't and then to learn it's not going to really go away there will be bad seasons and good seasons of it but not to sit in it not to dwell in self pity find ways you know to fill that loneliness if that's a case or maybe the Lord just want you right where you are.

[00:18:43] You know what but that was a being a missionary.

[00:18:46] Yeah I want to say that being a missionary was very lonely.

[00:18:51] You know I remember coming from a big church lots of people lots of things to do almost every night of the week and I moved to a very small church and you know I didn't speak the language and so I remember just the loneliness was just overwhelming

[00:19:07] and I realized that I need to work on my relationship with Jesus Christ he needs to be my very best friend he needs to be the one I tell everything to and I need to be close to him and that really sustains me like even though it's hurtful sometimes like you you wish someone would call you or something like that but it helps you endure the hardship.

[00:19:28] Yeah and that that kind of piggyback on what you said you wish someone would call you that's what I mean by not sitting in it.

[00:19:35] I learned that okay if I'm this lonely don't let myself go into self pity I should make the phone call.

[00:19:41] I need to call someone and say have coffee and so you can you can do either one but I have taken those only times to get closer to the Lord and figured at the end it's like this is what I was supposed to do.

[00:19:53] I think one of the lessons to be which brought on loneliness understanding and Brenda you and I talked about this a little bit last night that people will always leave.

[00:20:03] You want everybody to be happy they're always going to stay but people always leave but God never leaves in Jesus never leaves and so I think how did you put it minister who's in the pews.

[00:20:14] Oh yeah one of my lessons it was Charles Spurgeon quote and I don't remember the quote but I remember the lesson.

[00:20:21] Yeah it was minister to the people who are in the seats.

[00:20:24] Yeah don't focus on the seats that aren't filled yet it was like you know when or an early ministry if your church plan and you come in and all you see is empty seats.

[00:20:33] Yeah more empty seats more empty seats.

[00:20:36] Or who left yeah or yeah which we say everybody leaves I mean at some point everybody leaves but there's this I know but it's just you know.

[00:20:48] It's family they're family it's in the territory.

[00:20:51] Yeah but yeah just focusing on on people who are there and there were people there to minister too.

[00:20:58] So even though now the church is larger you have a larger church Rosemary you guys have a large church like there.

[00:21:06] You still see the empty seats sometimes and you you have I have to refocus and go look at all the people that God's assembled here to worship him.

[00:21:16] Right.

[00:21:17] To give him glory.

[00:21:18] Right.

[00:21:19] And just to minister too.

[00:21:20] This was early on to me if someone left I equated that to I'm a failure we're a failure we couldn't meet their needs they left so we're failures and that's not true.

[00:21:32] No and they're like we did we loved you we didn't like that guy that was in the first grade class.

[00:21:37] Or they're in a different season and you know the Lord has them somewhere or the Lord called them.

[00:21:43] Yeah or the other churches offering it's meeting a need that they have and so learning that though.

[00:21:49] We're our same team.

[00:21:50] Yeah we are all same team and it's okay it doesn't mean I could have failed I'm not saying that we didn't but it doesn't always equate to failure.

[00:21:59] Yeah I had a lesson about you know just trying to be quick to establish a ministry or to get people to help me.

[00:22:08] I remember learning to not be quick to lay hands on people right first in a good one.

[00:22:14] Do not install people into ministry before they're proven and don't just install people because they're your friend.

[00:22:21] Yeah that's a hard one.

[00:22:23] Yeah that's a fun one huh?

[00:22:24] Higher slow fire fast.

[00:22:27] Well let them be proven.

[00:22:30] Let them try it in a lower level first before you let them be in a higher level of responsibility in the ministry.

[00:22:38] Yeah Jesus talked about that right about well wasn't Jesus who said it but about deacons you know let them first be tested.

[00:22:47] Yeah that's the first time of testing of just watching someone and you know saying like watching what they do.

[00:22:56] Yeah that's a hard one because it's easy to get people into positions and when you're in the early ministry you're just hanging on.

[00:23:03] You take anybody you know just I'll take a point in this though that I would say it's really easy to hand over like a coffee ministry.

[00:23:11] Let let the new believers make the coffee you know let them share in it it's their church and I believe it's important that we share a ministry and we learn to give things away.

[00:23:22] And so little thing not little things I don't want to make it sound like it's not important but things with less responsibility like making the coffee.

[00:23:29] I believe anyone can do that you know rather than installing someone who's going to teach from the front that's a much bigger responsibility and I would wait more to put someone in that position.

[00:23:40] Yeah well then you're talking you have you have some definite guidelines and qualifications for those things.

[00:23:46] And you don't for I think that's what you're trying to explain like there's qualifications for those things that the thought of being faithful little and he'll make you face.

[00:23:54] I'm in charge yeah I want to do that.

[00:23:57] Yeah nobody wants me to make coffee.

[00:23:59] Oh my but you know what I mean what I think is important is to share ministry.

[00:24:05] Yeah like I meet people like a pastor and his wife and they do everything at the church and you really need to learn to give ministry away share let people share in it.

[00:24:15] It's their church let them serve you know and I hear the pastor and the wife are painting the church doing all the teaching doing everything.

[00:24:25] And I would discourage that.

[00:24:28] Yeah that's awful.

[00:24:29] Maybe there in a season that there's no people but I don't know.

[00:24:32] Well I think what she's trying to say is like take risk share like even though she's saying hey be tested but there's also a point like where people are hanging on the ministry

[00:24:40] and they're not freely like holding their hands out saying okay I'm going to take a risk on this person.

[00:24:46] Right we do have to take risks I mean around here we say put them in the driver seat keep them out of the ditch.

[00:24:52] Oh yeah that's funny.

[00:24:55] I take a lot of little things.

[00:24:57] Yeah I think all these lessons, these tough lessons in the beginning maybe this is too soon to jump to that but I just keep thinking of we can either

[00:25:07] those lessons can crush us or they can cause us to grow like one of the scriptures that Rosemary read right if they can as we self reflect on those decisions and we sometimes they make us re-evaluate our priorities or our methods or our philosophies.

[00:25:23] It can cultivate compassion and empathy you know so there's so much to learn so much growth opportunities from these hard lessons if we learn them.

[00:25:33] And if someone gives us criticism I'll say that's a hard one too especially in the beginning every bit of criticism was like devastating especially if you're me and like really insecure every bit of criticism just knocked you flat.

[00:25:46] But so learning how to you know take the meat and throw out the bones or that expression is what part is true what part is not and learn from it instead of let it crush you learn from it and grow from it.

[00:25:59] I think we can get stronger and wiser so how we handle these tough lessons are really important and I think sometimes we do it well and sometimes we do it horrible.

[00:26:08] So we make mistakes right we do and we learn humility through our lessons.

[00:26:13] I think staying is important for leaders who are listening or servants who are listening that there are there are lessons in the hardships of the ministry.

[00:26:22] There are lessons in the trials there are lessons in the trouble and if we run every time trouble comes our way we won't learn those valuable lessons.

[00:26:31] I remember learning lessons of submission you know when someone wanted me to do something I didn't want to do but then did it and learned how to submit one of one of my big early lessons was that I'm never as good as people say I am and I'm never as bad as people say I am.

[00:26:48] And what if I am? Yeah.

[00:26:51] So ones 143 says they have all turned aside together they have become corrupt there is none who does good not even one so people are telling you that you're so bad like they're just as bad as you are.

[00:27:04] If people tell you you're good we're never that good you know and I mean like it's all the glory goes to God so it's just keeping that even balance of when people do because in our positions people do criticize.

[00:27:17] You know they can't criticize quite a bit so just knowing that I serve an audience of one.

[00:27:25] And I think to add to that when you're criticized you have to remember your calling.

[00:27:32] And who equips you yeah well definitely I do remember this lesson maybe I shouldn't say it on air oops too late now I said it so my kids were little and a lady came and said I need to talk to you.

[00:27:44] So she came and she sat me down on my couch my kids are old now so it's long time ago.

[00:27:48] And just went on to instruct me how I leave my kids too much I'm this I'm not and she just went on for like an hour of all my parenting skills I mean I'm falling right and I'm thinking oh my goodness why do you get to say this to me and I I learned a lot of lessons from that number one.

[00:28:08] Why do you come why do you want to come to my house no I'm just kidding.

[00:28:12] Are you free for coffee for no not at all really busy I had to take all those I will tell you meeting a public place.

[00:28:19] I did learn that I didn't learn that because my kids were there and so I don't know what don't know but I learned again I had to I was crushed but okay Lord what's true what's not what first of all she doesn't even know me or my life she has no right to say some of these things because they were so wrong.

[00:28:37] But I really had to learn to take those things to the Lord.

[00:28:40] Whenever they came because in the beginning they came a lot and.

[00:28:44] I'd be like kids go pack your bag yeah better job than I can she's taking you home I still remember it was yesterday my kids are like 40 so but I learned a really some good lessons about receiving stuff like that and that I don't have to receive at all and that people are going to say all kinds of things that it doesn't make it true.

[00:29:04] And but I had to be willing to listen if it was true so those are hard lessons hard and I learned not to do that to someone because painful yeah never do that to someone is a big lesson.

[00:29:17] We don't encourage her yes so how about this one i'm learning how to not take ministry personally care.

[00:29:26] Yeah tell us about that rose and answer.

[00:29:31] I don't really have an answer it's something to continue working through but really I believe in keeping check on my emotions that i'm not led by my emotions i'm not letting my emotions drive me and what I do.

[00:29:48] I think to be confident in God that this is his ministry he equips me with his Holy Spirit and the gifts that he gives me.

[00:30:00] I am confident that God is leading me and showing me what to do.

[00:30:06] And I just have to keep telling myself these things you have to know that the ministry that you're involved with is his ministry it's not yours i try so hard not to say my women's ministry my this my that i don't want to own them they belong to the Lord and I have the opportunity to serve here so I try and keep my head straight with that with just thinking like this.

[00:30:29] That I keep checking myself and I think super important we already mentioned was being confident in your calling.

[00:30:39] And I wanted to read second Corinthians three because this has been always such a life giver to me in verse four it says such confidence as this is ours through Christ before God not that we are competent in ourselves to claim anything for ourselves but our competence comes from God.

[00:30:58] He has made us competent as ministers of a new covenant not of the letter but of the spirit and so there you go I just had to keep telling myself that that my competence comes from God and he's calling me and this is what i'm supposed to do.

[00:31:14] And when it gets hard you know like you you hurt when bad things happen but you have to know it's not like a personal reflection.

[00:31:22] I was going to say what kind of things are you referring to like don't take things personal you have an example.

[00:31:28] Oh like if if people leave your church and you know this is something i talk about with Nick he'll come home and oh you know I was I would tell him that was a nice Sunday service great.

[00:31:39] Love your sermon and the only thing he could think sometimes did you see that guy get up and leave and you know it like will wreck his feelings and so we have to talk about those things and those things would happen to me too like.

[00:31:52] People didn't show up for an event or whatever may happen right that wasn't what you expected and you might think oh did I do it wrong oh what happened oh did I say something that made that person leave and you have to leave those things to God.

[00:32:08] You know and just know that things happen we are not in control of other people's lives we present what we are called to do this is a ministry come be involved this is a great place to grow in your faith and then it is what it is I feel like all that I need to keep putting into God's hands like anything.

[00:32:28] With the people or with just in general in ministry I don't take it as a personal reflection of who I am or that i'm doing a bad job.

[00:32:38] I think that people have the misconception that people that are in leadership positions or that run ministry that they like strived for that position somehow or they wanted that position many of us like for me I married a paramedic firefighter I did not marry a pastor.

[00:32:57] Like it was all a very new thing I was a new believer when we planted you know the first church like this isn't something that that we aimed for this is something we found ourselves like God saying okay you need to do that that doesn't mean that we're not insecure doesn't mean that we're not scared terrified or like it doesn't mean any of those things and it doesn't mean that we don't have feelings or.

[00:33:25] That we're not you know and it doesn't mean that we don't feel privileged like I feel like we get to do this sometimes I wonder like God did you make a mistake like you know how are you allowing me to do this but you learn slowly to walk in that confidence that's not your own but God but that doesn't mean it's easy right and right that doesn't mean like oh look you know look at the way you're doing it.

[00:33:54] You know look at them there you know Nick go ease up on the stage like he has such confidence like that really has nothing to do with us because without that we wouldn't be in those places yeah and a lot of us didn't start it's different now there's Bible colleges and stuff like that I guess that was then there then but I mean I'm married a produce for cowbite chapels yeah yeah produce produce clerk turned electrician turn pastor we had no training like in that sense and it so you're just say yes Lord because you know that your call.

[00:34:24] And then most of your training was on the job was on the job so little different way back then I think yeah I don't think I know where the book of Hebrews was yeah we first planted our first I think I knew that but maybe not maybe you should have mentored me no no I got baptized in the church we planted oh you did I did like when I say we didn't know anything like I'm serious it was like the foolish things of the world that can found the wise like that is so cool

[00:34:53] that I love to we are no we had zero business like if you were like church planning like if we would have went through Nick's cultivate program they would have put us on the bottom of the

[00:35:04] we still have to all these years drive down the freeway and if we pass the church we still can't believe we're there yeah it's just yeah we drive by our church it's like thank you Jesus

[00:35:15] yeah he made me feel like he made a mistake but I don't know yeah we have to keep humble but I think that confidence like I was saying just checking your emotions those are all things you have to actively do

[00:35:30] like just be purposefully doing these things to check yourself yeah and I think we just get busy we run with things and that's why arrest and sabbath are important to be reflective to think about what you're doing and how you're doing it with

[00:35:44] what kind of heart and attitude and motivation and these kinds of things to keep my family and check you know just these kinds of things because

[00:35:53] we let the ministry drive us in it and it shouldn't yeah I think an early lesson if we have time to share one more is in the friendship area learning I don't know who you can talk to who you

[00:36:06] couldn't being too vulnerable with some not being vulnerable with others but like you're trying to find a confident and perhaps the ministry when you're young saying too much to someone so you know learning some

[00:36:19] of that the hard way as well who can you talk to who who who you can't and what they do with that and are they your friend because they're trying to get to your husband we had a few of those

[00:36:29] or they're just your friend because they honestly like you you know those are some hard lessons that degree of making me nervous with that

[00:36:35] those are hard lessons to learn they are about friendships yeah I'm sorry Brenda no go ahead you make a new nervous yeah just listening to that makes me nervous

[00:36:46] yeah yeah I think it is difficult because you are in the fish bowl and so people want vulnerability they want you to be open but to a point yeah

[00:36:58] you're learning the balance of where's the boundaries of like I don't have the obligation to tell everybody what's going on in my life

[00:37:06] I should tell some people right so that I can be accountable but I don't have the ability or I don't have the responsibility to be completely open with everyone because not everyone

[00:37:19] I don't want to use the word deserves but not everyone needs to be in my up in my business like that much like but I do need to have close friends

[00:37:29] like you have to talk to somebody but you don't have to talk to everybody I guess is the way that I would but then being vulnerable from platforms enough to where you don't look like you have it all together because we don't none of us do you know being able to be open but I mean there are things in our lives that like

[00:37:47] are very intimate very personal things that we're struggling with that you know maybe not everybody right well I think that's where the wisdom come in because I think

[00:37:57] in the past I've early on to had friends that I felt comfortable with enough to share some of the things I was struggling with and it

[00:38:07] was too much for them because the past was life supposed to be different passers live shouldn't deal with some of those things nothing you drink coffee no nothing really bad I know that makes it sound like you know nothing like that we have to struggle

[00:38:20] Kelly yeah but you know what I mean they just they are so learning yeah that's not that friend you know maybe that's a lifelong lesson you know well people do I've had this happen you could tell me if you girls have had this happen but I've had people say we want

[00:38:35] you to be so open we want you to share everything and I'm thinking in my head like you really can't you handle the humanity that I have in my life that's what I mean and then I've seen it in churches where

[00:38:48] then when they really do you know know your struggles then they turn I that exactly what I'm trying to say yes yeah

[00:38:55] and then they turned on you and then you were like then you felt horrible because you shared yeah I'll say how could you do something like that I've had someone

[00:39:02] like everybody deals with this right yes and Brenda maybe we should talk about friendships again yeah yeah that would be good I want to do one on the fish bowl too

[00:39:13] like what that really looks like yeah upcoming yeah topics all right well we're gonna wrap up if you guys have anything else that you wanted to share any big lessons but we've hit a lot of

[00:39:25] a lot I'm just saying you don't want my page of 100 yeah they get the gist yeah he get the gist I'm sure they have some they're like oh you should

[00:39:33] to share this so write us in until it's like all of your lessons too yeah there's more right yeah well thank you so much for joining us today

[00:39:43] and just being able to share truth about ministry and life and what it's like to serve the Lord I hope that we have been vulnerable

[00:39:52] enough just to share some of these things that we have dealt with and how the Lord has got us through those things

[00:39:59] and so so it was good good topic I loved having it and we'll all be transformed together and eventually we'll be transforming the image of Christ

[00:40:09] the second coming but anyhow you could visit when she leads org to find out all about what is happening in our ministry

[00:40:17] we have several conferences coming up and Rosemary coming your way to Colorado May is it second third or fourth?

[00:40:24] May may third and fourth right third or fourth Friday Saturday long month yeah sign up go to when she leads org for that

[00:40:31] we're going to be in Portugal and Spain in June and I'll be in Hungary are you coming to Hungary?

[00:40:38] Yeah Rosemary is going to be in Hungary in July so exciting thing so go check it out and we will see you next time.

[00:40:47] See ya bye bye

[00:40:54] you