Henrietta Mears, Part 3

[00:00:04] Welcome to Women Worth Knowing, the radio program and podcast hosted by Cheryl Brodersen and Robin Jones Gunn.

[00:00:11] I am so glad that we are back for Part 3 with Tim McKelmont.

[00:00:15] We've been talking about Henrietta Mears, a remarkable woman.

[00:00:20] And we have more stories to hear.

[00:00:23] Which I love.

[00:00:24] We both love.

[00:00:25] And Tim has been working as an associate producer with Rob Luz on a documentary film that's titled Mears,

[00:00:32] How One Woman Changed American Christianity.

[00:00:36] Isn't that a great title, Cheryl?

[00:00:37] I love it.

[00:00:38] It covers it all.

[00:00:39] And especially from what we've been learning, you see that her influence.

[00:00:44] And again, it's the influence of a woman who's teaching the Word of God.

[00:00:50] And I think we need to bring that out because there are those who are saying, you know, let the women keep silent.

[00:00:56] Or, you know, I suffer a woman not to teach nor to usurp authority over a man.

[00:01:00] And that's—Paul is not talking about someone like Henrietta Mears or talking about women today who love and have a passion for the Word of God

[00:01:10] and just want people to know the Word of God.

[00:01:14] And clearly such a desire to empower others to move forward.

[00:01:19] The mighty army of, you know, the evangelism was at the heart of what she wanted to do in her training for these people.

[00:01:28] That Tim, in episode two, be sure to go back and listen because we hear about the different people that have been influenced by her ministry when she was teaching.

[00:01:37] But, wow, the ripple effects, as you were saying.

[00:01:42] Well, in episode one, we learned about, you know, her kind of ignoble past her birth, her education, her having to move before she was even, you know, eight years old six times, her father losing his wealth,

[00:02:00] her majoring in chemistry in college, then from there beginning to teach Bible at her church.

[00:02:10] This is all in Minnesota.

[00:02:12] In Minnesota.

[00:02:13] Moving from Minnesota to Hollywood, of all things.

[00:02:16] And then in Hollywood, again, teaching, being hired by the Presbyterian, First Presbyterian Church of Hollywood, being hired there.

[00:02:25] And then from there, the vision to see, well, we need a curriculum.

[00:02:31] The vision to see, well, we need a camp where people can actually get away from all of the busyness and all of the pressures of life and just have some time alone to encounter the Lord and the power of his word.

[00:02:50] One thing also about Forest Home is that it doesn't have the light pollution.

[00:02:55] My dad used to always bring that out.

[00:02:57] It doesn't have the light pollution.

[00:02:59] So you can see the stars.

[00:03:00] You can see the stars.

[00:03:01] And again, this song, How Great Thou Art, is at Hormel Hall at Forest Home.

[00:03:09] And one of the stanzas says, you know.

[00:03:15] I see the stars.

[00:03:17] I see the stars.

[00:03:18] I hear the rolling thunder.

[00:03:20] Yes.

[00:03:20] His power throughout the universe displayed.

[00:03:23] Right.

[00:03:23] So we need part three.

[00:03:25] And I know we ended part two.

[00:03:27] You said after she died.

[00:03:29] But there are some more stories.

[00:03:31] I mean, how old was she when she passed away?

[00:03:33] Well, let me ask a quick question, Cheryl.

[00:03:35] A couple of times you've said how much Henrietta influenced your father.

[00:03:39] And our listeners know that's Chuck Smith of Calvary Chapel and Costa Mesa.

[00:03:43] If not, they know it now.

[00:03:44] Yes.

[00:03:45] And so he never met her, though, did he?

[00:03:49] He would have been just a little too young.

[00:03:51] He was in her class, though.

[00:03:53] Oh, he was?

[00:03:54] So he went to some of her classes, right?

[00:03:56] So he was at Life Bible College in 1948.

[00:03:58] So he actually went to Life Bible College.

[00:04:01] He graduated 47.

[00:04:02] I'm sorry.

[00:04:03] So he was actually at Life Bible College when he was 17 years old.

[00:04:07] So he would have started sometime around 1945.

[00:04:10] So he actually went to her classes and listened.

[00:04:15] And that was something that a lot of the students from Life Bible College would do.

[00:04:20] They would go and listen to Henrietta Mears.

[00:04:24] And so that was part of it.

[00:04:25] So he would also say that she was a very influential woman in his life.

[00:04:29] Oh, he did.

[00:04:30] And that's why when push came to shove, if you'd say, you know, Chuck, is it all right for a woman to teach the Bible?

[00:04:37] He would say, well, Henrietta Mears did a great job, you know, and was influential on me.

[00:04:45] So that was very – she was very instrumental in his life.

[00:04:50] And also, as we talked about, I think, in Part 1, that he had the inspiration to teach through the Word of God because it so inspired him when he was in college.

[00:05:00] And even though he was with the Foursquare Church for many years, they insisted that they teach thematically.

[00:05:06] Every pastor had to teach the same.

[00:05:08] And that really frustrated him until 1964 when my grandmother, who was saved through the Foursquare Church, passed away.

[00:05:18] My dad then felt that he had the freedom to pursue teaching through the Bible.

[00:05:24] And so he started – I think it was called – I can't remember exactly.

[00:05:29] Somebody else can correct me.

[00:05:30] But he started a Bible teaching church in Corona, California.

[00:05:34] I can't remember the name.

[00:05:35] I think it was Community Bible Church of Corona, but I could be wrong about that.

[00:05:39] But he started that with the express purpose of teaching through the Word of God.

[00:05:44] So, yes, a tremendous influence on my father.

[00:05:49] Well, Tim, take us there.

[00:05:51] Along those lines, she was approached between 1928 and 1963 when she died.

[00:06:00] She was asked to join the faculty at Wheaton College and Fuller Seminary, among others, but chose not to accept it because she felt that God had called her to this unique and influential platform.

[00:06:15] Thank the Lord.

[00:06:16] That to that point had extended around the world.

[00:06:18] Mm-hmm.

[00:06:20] But then she began teaching leadership training institutes and seminars with conferences and churches all around the world.

[00:06:29] And so her impact on other ministries was profound.

[00:06:34] Mm-hmm.

[00:06:36] During the early years, she became one of the founding members of the National Association of Evangelicals, which still is in place today, and the National Sunday School Association.

[00:06:49] She soon, probably before this is aired, she will be honored posthumously by the Evangelical Christian Publishing Association with the Kenneth Taylor Award.

[00:07:03] Okay.

[00:07:03] I love Kenneth Taylor.

[00:07:04] New Living Translation Bible for those who aren't aware.

[00:07:08] And apparently etched on the award is for creating resources for the church and children's ministries by developing the modern approach to Sunday school.

[00:07:19] Her lifetime of work in the Christian publishing industry is characterized by innovation and influence that has endured through time.

[00:07:28] I love that.

[00:07:29] Wonderful.

[00:07:30] You talked about, I think, might have been session one or two, but you talked about how in the Sunday school curriculum,

[00:07:39] she did age appropriate, which I really appreciate because sometimes, you know, a curriculum will say, okay, everyone's teaching this.

[00:07:48] And the Sunday school teachers themselves don't know how to take that lesson and make it age appropriate.

[00:07:54] And so Henrietta Mears did that.

[00:07:57] It will be the same lesson, but she'll say, this is how you do it for the preschoolers.

[00:08:04] This is how you do it for the first graders, second grade, third grade.

[00:08:08] And there was a lot of education that went into it, a lot of understanding of what is age appropriate, what a child.

[00:08:18] In fact, when I used to teach Gospel Light, I remember it said, these are the concepts that a child can learn this year.

[00:08:26] And this is where you want to take the children.

[00:08:29] So helpful.

[00:08:29] This year.

[00:08:29] It was amazing.

[00:08:31] It's kind of like, what are those books that came out?

[00:08:33] Like what a first grader can know, those educational books.

[00:08:38] It was like that with what their mind can know, what their mind can conceive, what they're able to take in, which I love.

[00:08:49] How did the Glass Convention, I remember going to that because I was teaching Sunday school when I was 16, 17 years old and going to the Greater Los Angeles Sunday School Convention.

[00:08:58] My mother never missed.

[00:09:00] My mother was there every year.

[00:09:02] That didn't come directly from her, but Gospel Light was really a part of the forming of that.

[00:09:09] Because I had that same question.

[00:09:10] Once again.

[00:09:11] Yeah.

[00:09:11] Yeah.

[00:09:12] The other part of her approach, certainly the age appropriate piece was important.

[00:09:18] But the other part was when we were growing up, we learned the continuity of all the scriptures together.

[00:09:24] You know, when she came, she saw they were teaching, you know, creation, Moses and the Red Sea, David and Goliath, Daniel and the Lion's Den, and all those particular stories.

[00:09:35] But they were just pieces.

[00:09:37] What we learned at Hollywood growing up was the continuity of the scriptures.

[00:09:41] Old Testament was really important.

[00:09:43] It wasn't just the story of Jesus, which is obviously the crux of it all, but how did it all fit together?

[00:09:51] So we learned that growing up.

[00:09:53] And so as you grew up, you learned more about how this related to that and how it was all one story.

[00:10:00] I love that.

[00:10:01] You have a little bit of that with Sally Lloyd-Jones, The Story of the Bible, or The Storybook of the Bible, which is, again, it shows the continuity, which I really appreciated too.

[00:10:12] Excellent.

[00:10:13] Right, right.

[00:10:14] So in addition to her impact on the life and ministry of Billy Graham and Chuck Smith, apparently here.

[00:10:20] Yes, definitely.

[00:10:21] Well, it's been said later that she was the most influential woman in Graham's life as well as in others.

[00:10:32] And we'll come back to that.

[00:10:33] But she also impacted Bill and Vonette Bright, Campus Crusade for Christ, or crew as they call it today.

[00:10:40] Jim Rayburn, the founder of Young Life, was impacted by her ministry.

[00:10:45] Dawson Trotman, who started The Navigators.

[00:10:49] Walt James and Ralph Hamburger, as I mentioned earlier in the Berlin Fellowship.

[00:10:54] Cameron Townsend, Wycliffe Bible Translators.

[00:10:58] They all...

[00:10:59] Right.

[00:10:59] And it's interesting to see how many of these organizations have intersected with our lives.

[00:11:06] And again, going back to Henrietta Mears, my son-in-law got saved through Navigators.

[00:11:11] He was raised half Buddhist, half Baptist.

[00:11:15] He didn't know really well.

[00:11:16] And it was Navigators that he was saved through.

[00:11:20] And, you know, Townsend, how he's translated the Bible into several languages.

[00:11:24] And the fact that he was one of the first to say the Bible needs to be translated.

[00:11:30] And I think their goal was to translate it in 1,600 different languages that it had as yet not been translated into.

[00:11:40] And again, sometimes having to use the dynamic equivalent, especially in, you know, areas like New Guinea.

[00:11:46] But these are...

[00:11:49] These organizations that you mentioned, especially Campus Crusade for Christ, how my brother Chuck, Chuck Smith Jr., really came to walk with the Lord.

[00:11:58] Because he was upset about the hippies at Calvary.

[00:12:01] So he went to the Presbyterian Church in Newport Beach.

[00:12:05] And at high school, got introduced to Campus Crusade for Christ.

[00:12:09] Ended up being a key player at OCC in that.

[00:12:12] So, I mean, these organizations are so dynamic in themselves and yet can trace their roots back to Henrietta Mears.

[00:12:22] And all focused on the Bible.

[00:12:25] Exactly.

[00:12:25] That's the key.

[00:12:26] That's the key.

[00:12:27] That's the key.

[00:12:29] Well, in the spring of 1963, Henrietta Mears was called home.

[00:12:34] She passed away somewhat unexpectedly on March the 20th.

[00:12:39] And I can still recall her memorial service.

[00:12:44] We lived across the street from Hollywood Presbyterian Church.

[00:12:47] And I remember all the people streaming in.

[00:12:50] And we hurried over and we went in.

[00:12:52] And we walked by her open casket.

[00:12:54] The first time in my life I had ever seen an open casket.

[00:12:58] And there she was with her Bible on her chest and resting serenely.

[00:13:04] Oh, I love that.

[00:13:06] A remarkable image.

[00:13:08] But there were 2,000 people who were present.

[00:13:13] It was one of the most worshipful worship celebrations I've ever seen in my life.

[00:13:19] And the hundreds who were there included those who were most impacted by her life and her ministry.

[00:13:25] Business people, educators, pastors, missionaries, and celebrities from all over the world.

[00:13:31] Including athletes as well.

[00:13:34] Well, the testimony and faith witness that they gave all pointed to Jesus.

[00:13:42] Which was so appropriate.

[00:13:44] And I'll never forget the thunderous singing of How Great Thou Art.

[00:13:48] It closed out the service.

[00:13:51] Christianity Today has referred to her as the grandmother of us all.

[00:13:57] The same publication, there was a writer who is her biographer,

[00:14:03] Arlen Migliazzo, if you haven't seen his book, read it.

[00:14:07] It's the most comprehensive biography I've read.

[00:14:10] He said she could even justifiably be considered a foremost architect of the 20th century reformation of Protestant America.

[00:14:21] Oh, that is so good.

[00:14:23] Wow.

[00:14:23] I would agree.

[00:14:24] I would totally agree because she brought us back to the Bible.

[00:14:27] Well, that's it.

[00:14:28] She really steered.

[00:14:28] You just look at everything we've been talking about here.

[00:14:30] And it all points to that.

[00:14:31] Well, and ultimately, it points to Jesus.

[00:14:35] Yes, it does.

[00:14:35] Now, she would be uncomfortable with all these accolades.

[00:14:38] Oh, of course she would.

[00:14:39] In fact, we've asked ourselves many times when we've been working on this film,

[00:14:42] what would she say about this?

[00:14:44] I mean, we have our offices in her office at Hollywood Presbyterian Church.

[00:14:50] And there's ghosts that run around that office.

[00:14:53] And it's teacher pointing us to, you know, point to Jesus.

[00:14:59] This is not going to work unless you point to the Lord.

[00:15:02] Right.

[00:15:04] So she would be very uncomfortable with all these accolades.

[00:15:09] But I think she was never, while she was never concerned about such things,

[00:15:14] she would always want us to point to Jesus.

[00:15:17] If you could get it there, she could live with it.

[00:15:22] She always resisted titles.

[00:15:25] You know, people wanted to call her reverend or pastor or preacher.

[00:15:30] She said, no, I'm a teacher.

[00:15:33] I love that.

[00:15:34] Yeah.

[00:15:34] And so that's what we called her.

[00:15:36] She even got an honorary doctorate from Bob Jones University.

[00:15:40] So people wanted to call her doctor.

[00:15:42] She says, no, she just wanted to be known as teacher.

[00:15:46] And so that's what we call her.

[00:15:48] And that's who she continues to be.

[00:15:50] Her life was so oriented around her Lord and Savior.

[00:15:54] So we all want to remember her as the teacher who points us to Jesus Christ,

[00:16:02] stressing how God can use any of us who trust him.

[00:16:09] That's fabulous, Tim.

[00:16:11] So well said.

[00:16:12] You consider, too, here's a woman who never married.

[00:16:15] And I think that's such an integral part of that,

[00:16:19] that she gave herself so fully to the Lord

[00:16:22] and was willing to forego having children.

[00:16:25] Now, did Margaret ever marry her sister?

[00:16:27] No, she didn't.

[00:16:28] And interesting, as you say that,

[00:16:31] she always said about not ever getting married,

[00:16:34] she said, the Apostle Paul came along too early.

[00:16:38] I like that.

[00:16:41] I have some friends who say, yeah, Paul would be my Bible boyfriend.

[00:16:46] Wow.

[00:16:47] I mean, that's a pretty strong boyfriend.

[00:16:49] Are you sure?

[00:16:50] Yeah, what a strong personality.

[00:16:52] Now, you mentioned earlier, too, that the chemistry had, you know,

[00:16:56] something to do with her approach.

[00:17:00] I mean, no doubt it helped her with probably some of the Greek,

[00:17:04] you know, definitely in, you know,

[00:17:10] being able to teach the Bible and to give understanding.

[00:17:15] Because when we teach the Bible,

[00:17:18] I mean, no, my father would always go to Nehemiah

[00:17:22] and the reference to they gave the understanding.

[00:17:26] And I think that's key, too, with Henrietta Mears,

[00:17:29] because in teaching the Bible, she gave understanding to it.

[00:17:33] I was just listening to a podcast, a different one.

[00:17:36] It's not a Christian one.

[00:17:37] It's a historical one.

[00:17:38] But they were talking about Martin Luther

[00:17:40] and that Martin Luther believed that people could understand the Bible.

[00:17:43] And one of the podcasters said, oh, no way.

[00:17:46] Nobody can understand the Bible.

[00:17:48] And I was thinking to myself, oh, no,

[00:17:51] I really like this podcast until right about now.

[00:17:54] Because what she did is she brought understanding

[00:17:57] and showed people how they could understand the Bible.

[00:18:00] Yeah, she really believed that the basic message of the Bible

[00:18:04] was accessible by anyone, including small children.

[00:18:10] And if you taught in their world, you know,

[00:18:14] and you used symbols and metaphors and illustrations

[00:18:19] that they could grasp,

[00:18:22] you could reach them with the message of the Bible.

[00:18:25] And then, of course, it can be a very complex document

[00:18:29] or set of documents, we should say.

[00:18:33] But they're accessible.

[00:18:35] If you do your work, they're accessible even on those levels.

[00:18:39] And she took us to the levels we could go to wherever we were,

[00:18:44] whether it was age accessibility or cultural reach

[00:18:49] or whatever it was,

[00:18:50] she created a path for us to get there.

[00:18:54] Yes, she did.

[00:18:55] And inspired us with a motivation to really study hard.

[00:19:00] And what came after her continued that.

[00:19:04] And she was just, we haven't gotten into her personality,

[00:19:08] but you'll hear more about that later.

[00:19:11] Let's talk about it a little bit. Yeah.

[00:19:11] She was electric and dynamic and almost like a machine gun.

[00:19:16] We've listened to so many of her audio tapes.

[00:19:19] We don't have a lot of video, but we have audio tapes.

[00:19:22] And she was just rapid fire.

[00:19:26] And you were just pulled in to this presentation of God's Word.

[00:19:33] And you couldn't stop.

[00:19:35] You know, I mean, it was amazing.

[00:19:37] Now, are any of those on YouTube available?

[00:19:41] Any of her messages?

[00:19:43] I don't know that.

[00:19:45] But this is why they had to make the document.

[00:19:47] That's right.

[00:19:48] And Tim, you, let me see my notes.

[00:19:50] So it's been over two years that you've been working.

[00:19:53] Almost, almost.

[00:19:54] Almost two years.

[00:19:55] And how many interviews have you collected?

[00:20:00] We've done about 35 full interviews.

[00:20:04] We've talked to, I don't know, hundreds of people.

[00:20:07] But we've done 35 on-camera interviews.

[00:20:10] And we've gone all over the country.

[00:20:12] Will Graham, Billy's grandson, consented to sit down with us.

[00:20:16] Got some wonderful, wonderful comments from Will.

[00:20:22] And we've talked with educators from Daryl Guter and Earl Palmer and his wife, a great pastor, John Huffman and Ann.

[00:20:34] You'll hear from in a bit.

[00:20:35] Yes, we're going to have Ann on the podcast.

[00:20:38] Next week.

[00:20:38] We had to.

[00:20:39] Yes, next week.

[00:20:40] Listeners, just wait until you hear from Ann.

[00:20:42] It's just going to be the cherry on top of all this Henrietta Mears conversation.

[00:20:48] Because now, with the documentary, and again, it's simply called Mears, M-E-A-R-S, and it's How One Woman Changed American Christianity.

[00:21:01] And through gathering all these interviews and the taping and audio, what's been one that stood out the most to you, Tim?

[00:21:12] I think one that I didn't mention that happened to me and my family.

[00:21:19] We were at Hollywood Presbyterian and had moved there in the mid-50s.

[00:21:24] My father had had some real difficulty in the ministry, had a nervous breakdown, and had gotten into some trouble with the law over financial issues and had to serve a little bit of time.

[00:21:38] And then the time came out, got well, and we moved to Hollywood.

[00:21:41] And Mears saw him and saw the potential in him and gave him an opportunity first to construct a library for the church, which he grew into a library of over 10,000 volumes.

[00:21:58] And then she gave him the responsibility of teaching an adult Bible class, which he grew into several hundred.

[00:22:06] And so she gave an opportunity when others really didn't see it.

[00:22:11] So that story, I mean, that's a personal story.

[00:22:14] That's probably in the film at some point.

[00:22:16] But I think her Sunday school and the rigorous way we were growing.

[00:22:22] I mean, I can remember Saturday nights in our living room and my mom and dad saying, you've got to learn your verses.

[00:22:28] You've got to learn your verses.

[00:22:29] Here, this week, it's Romans 8.

[00:22:32] Learn Romans 8.

[00:22:33] You know, and so we had to get – and then we went in on Sunday morning and there was a woman sitting at a small table.

[00:22:37] And we had to recite those verses to that woman.

[00:22:41] And then she'd give us a little badge for our shield.

[00:22:44] You know, I mean, it was – those – I mean, there were times when I would rather do something else.

[00:22:50] But then – but that was so valuable to me and compressed in with all the other experiences that we had at the church socially and recreationally and everything else.

[00:23:03] It was just a remarkable time to grow up in that place.

[00:23:07] As I said, I grew up with Gospel Light, too.

[00:23:09] Not only did I teach it, but I grew up with it.

[00:23:12] And I still remember when I had to memorize Galatians 5.22 and to get all the fruit of the Spirit in the right order.

[00:23:18] And my mom – now, my father was a little – I don't want to say cheap, but he was – he watched the pocketbook.

[00:23:26] But I remember when I got that, besides, you know, being able to put my – I think we had stars up.

[00:23:33] I – she gave me a quarter.

[00:23:35] And, you know, for me, that – like, oh, I'm going to memorize more scriptures if I can get money.

[00:23:40] That's right.

[00:23:41] Well, it was that kind of incentive.

[00:23:44] But, Cheryl, I wanted to get back and answer the one question you had that I didn't respond to, and that was about chemistry.

[00:23:52] I've come across parts of that.

[00:23:55] She had a relationship with a teacher in science at the Moody Bible Institute.

[00:24:02] And he would come out to Forrest Home and to Hollywood Press and speak, I believe.

[00:24:10] And through that relationship, they went back and they created the series of films around the creation and the Bible stories from the Moody Bible Institute that I saw countless times.

[00:24:25] Oh, me too.

[00:24:26] Me too.

[00:24:26] And we saw it at Hollywood Press, and she really believed that the Bible would stand up.

[00:24:34] It did.

[00:24:35] When you looked at those things, if you really did your work and you really looked at what was happening and you were really open to the truth, you would see the correlation.

[00:24:47] And it was remarkable to see that come true.

[00:24:50] Oh, thank you again so much for these three episodes on Henrietta Mears.

[00:24:55] We are so grateful that you could be here, Tim.

[00:24:58] And we want everyone to go see Mears, How One Woman Changed American Christianity.

[00:25:04] This was tremendous.

[00:25:05] I loved it.

[00:25:06] Thank you again.

[00:25:10] Thank you for listening to Women Worth Knowing with Cheryl Broderson and Robin Jones-Gunn.

[00:25:15] For more information on Cheryl, visit CherylBroderson.com or follow her on Instagram or Facebook.

[00:25:21] For more information on Robin, visit RobinGunn.com or follow her on Instagram or Facebook.

[00:25:26] Join us each week for a lively conversation as we explore the lives of well-known and not-so-well-known historical and contemporary Christian women.

[00:25:35] If you think there is a woman worth knowing, we'd love to hear from you.

[00:25:38] Email us at WWK at CCCM.com.

[00:25:44] We hope you've enjoyed today's episode.

[00:25:46] Make sure you rate us on your podcast app, subscribe, and share it with a friend.

[00:25:50] Thank you again for listening to Women Worth Knowing with Cheryl Broderson and Robin Jones-Gunn.

[00:25:55] Women Worth Knowing is a production of Calvary Chapel Costa Mesa.