Finding The Right Pastor – Neil Spencer

[00:00:00] Hello and welcome to another episode of the Cultivate Church Planning Podcast.

[00:00:04] I'm your host, Brian Kelly.

[00:00:06] And before we get started on this episode, I want to tell you about a couple of events

[00:00:09] that are coming up that I think you'll really enjoy.

[00:00:11] First of all, we're going to be having a Cultivate Gathering.

[00:00:14] If you have questions, if you want more information, if you want to get connected,

[00:00:18] I will be there, Kyle will be there, Terry will be there.

[00:00:22] We're going to be at Forest Ridge Calvary Chapel, and that's in Austin, Texas.

[00:00:26] It's Saturday, May 18th.

[00:00:28] You can register and find out more information at ForestRidgeCalvary.com.

[00:00:33] Secondly, would you like to be equipped and inspired?

[00:00:37] Is learning and collaborating amongst fellow Christians sound encouraging and refreshing?

[00:00:43] Then you should come to the CGN Calvary Chapel International Conference.

[00:00:47] It's June 23rd to the 26th at Calvary Chapel Costa Mesa.

[00:00:52] You can register online at conference.calvarychapel.com.

[00:00:56] This year's theme is Hope, Suffering and Glory, Studies in 1 Peter.

[00:01:01] We're going to have nine speakers addressing topics taken from 1 Peter.

[00:01:04] June 23rd to 26th, register at conference.calvarychapel.com.

[00:01:09] Alright, let's get into this week's episode. God bless.

[00:01:14] Welcome to the Cultivate Church Planning Podcast.

[00:01:16] I'm your host, Brian Kelly.

[00:01:17] I'm here with co-host again, Nick Keady.

[00:01:20] We are here with Neil Spencer, who is the pastor of a very cool, very great church in Florida.

[00:01:32] It's up in the north of Florida. People often say,

[00:01:36] Oh, you're in Florida? Do you know Neil? Do you know Brian?

[00:01:39] We live kind of far away.

[00:01:41] Neil is here with us and he's going to talk about his story of not only being involved in church planning

[00:01:48] in a church plan, but also some of the issues that surround the transition of one pastor to another.

[00:01:55] And this just so happens to be a great success story with our church.

[00:01:59] Glad to have you here with us, Neil. Thanks for joining us.

[00:02:02] Yeah, thank you for the invite.

[00:02:04] Great to be with you guys in your home church.

[00:02:07] Yeah, we're here in Colorado.

[00:02:09] So we've actually recorded episodes here in Colorado before,

[00:02:13] but Neil, great to have you here.

[00:02:15] And we're here, we're doing kind of CGN Leaders Gathering and our church in Whitefields here in Longmont is happy to host.

[00:02:22] Yeah, you guys are phenomenal hosts with a phenomenal view.

[00:02:25] Like that mountain's amazing.

[00:02:27] Yeah, it never gets old.

[00:02:28] Coming from Florida, we're used to...

[00:02:30] But tell the truth, isn't it too dry here?

[00:02:33] Okay, well, like so I'm wondering if I have it right now.

[00:02:37] You know how you can get that headache that comes from elevation sickness?

[00:02:40] So isn't the cure to drink lots of water?

[00:02:42] That's what I'm doing. That's why I'm drinking lots of water.

[00:02:45] Here's the problem with drinking lots of water, you have to pee a lot.

[00:02:50] So let's talk about that.

[00:02:55] Another discussion for another day.

[00:02:57] For another dude.

[00:03:00] It is kind of dry here, but it's beautiful.

[00:03:03] It's a nice place. Nick has an awesome church here and so glad we could be here.

[00:03:08] Yeah, thank you for hosting. It's very beautiful.

[00:03:10] Great gracious of you.

[00:03:11] So Neil, let's get started and maybe just give us a little bit of a summary of the church that you're at.

[00:03:16] What you're doing, how you got there, and maybe some of the backstory

[00:03:20] and then we'll get into some of the details that might be able to help out some of our listeners.

[00:03:24] So one of the things that we have in common besides our...

[00:03:27] Well, besides our state of residency is one of the churches that made an investment in our lives.

[00:03:34] Maranatha Chapel.

[00:03:36] So I'm from Northwest Florida, born there in 81, Pensacola area.

[00:03:41] My father the same, but not the same year, born in 53.

[00:03:44] Same hospital though. Long story short. Yeah, isn't that crazy?

[00:03:48] I have six children, three were born in that same hospital and three born in another.

[00:03:52] But anyway, my father was 1960s, 1970s, growing up, teenager, rebellious, broken home.

[00:04:03] And my uncle is known as the Duke of the Gulf Coast.

[00:04:06] So if you go to Gulf Breeze, Florida, there is a statue of the Duke.

[00:04:10] Are you serious?

[00:04:11] Yeah, he's the one that popularized the sport of surf in the Gulf Coast area.

[00:04:16] So he's a well-known surfer.

[00:04:18] So my father grew up with him and long story short,

[00:04:22] Yancey was the first to get saved.

[00:04:25] And I don't know... I mean maybe most sports are like this,

[00:04:28] but in the sport of surf, there's kind of a dark side and a little bit of a lighter side.

[00:04:34] And I think Yancey always, even before he came to know Jesus,

[00:04:37] was a little bit more on the lighter side.

[00:04:38] My dad was not.

[00:04:39] Dad kind of leaned towards the dark.

[00:04:41] He was a very hard case to get saved.

[00:04:44] He got radically saved at a church that you may know of or may not,

[00:04:49] but it wasn't during that era.

[00:04:50] It was a church by the name of Brownsville in Pensacola.

[00:04:53] So in the late 90s, 2000s, the Toronto blessing made their way there.

[00:04:57] Oh yeah, I heard of it.

[00:04:58] But in the 70s, it had its own...

[00:05:00] Yeah, yeah, yeah, all sorts of powerful, you know, holy rolling and quacking and all those things.

[00:05:05] But in the 70s, they had their own version of a Jesus revolution unattached to Southern California.

[00:05:12] My father got radically saved during that timeframe.

[00:05:15] And long story short,

[00:05:17] ended up in an A.G. Bible college and then a Baptist seminary

[00:05:21] and got fired from his first position in a church post-education.

[00:05:27] Kind of like an old Western, like this church isn't big enough for the both of us.

[00:05:30] Oh, she was out.

[00:05:32] So here's what happened.

[00:05:33] A serf inundates my family.

[00:05:35] I had another uncle named Tom, who was in San Diego a lot,

[00:05:38] working with a company called Gordon and Smith.

[00:05:40] So he came to my dad and he said,

[00:05:42] John, there's all these churches out there.

[00:05:44] They're pretty normal.

[00:05:46] They teach the Bible and their music is good.

[00:05:48] You should go check them out.

[00:05:50] So my dad did.

[00:05:51] He was talking about Calvary Chapel.

[00:05:52] He flies out to San Diego, meets a guy named Ray Bentley

[00:05:56] who was working under Mike McIntosh at the time.

[00:05:58] Horizon, Christian Fellowship.

[00:06:00] Yeah.

[00:06:01] And my dad's pretty quick-witted.

[00:06:02] So my dad went up to Ray after the serf,

[00:06:04] hey, great message.

[00:06:05] You know, hey, I'm just who I am.

[00:06:06] I know you don't know me.

[00:06:07] Is there any way that I could just share my story with you

[00:06:10] and find out more about you guys?

[00:06:11] I'm out here all day tomorrow, on Monday.

[00:06:13] And Ray said, well, Monday is my day off.

[00:06:16] So my dad went, hey, that's my day off too.

[00:06:18] We should get coffee.

[00:06:19] And so it made Ray laugh.

[00:06:20] And so Ray, they ended up spending like four hours together that Monday

[00:06:23] and established a lifelong relationship, lifelong friendship.

[00:06:27] When Ray passed, Daniel, Ray's son, called me and said,

[00:06:31] hey, you're the first guy outside of our family.

[00:06:34] But my mom wants your dad to know.

[00:06:36] Well, your dad do the funeral for Ray.

[00:06:38] So they were lifelong friends.

[00:06:39] And here's what happened with Calvary.

[00:06:41] Ray, after that four-hour conversation on a Monday,

[00:06:44] said you're pretty much at Calvary.

[00:06:45] Just go back to your hometown, find some place,

[00:06:48] teach the Bible.

[00:06:49] So on the last Sunday with goblins and ghosts in October

[00:06:54] at a public school because it was Halloween,

[00:06:57] my dad hosted his first service with 30 people,

[00:07:00] 15 of which were family, second Sunday,

[00:07:02] 15 people were left and they weren't the family.

[00:07:05] So anyway, in 1983 he started.

[00:07:07] So it became the first, as we understand it,

[00:07:10] non-immaceried Calvary Chapel.

[00:07:12] Does that make sense in the state of Florida?

[00:07:14] Malcolm Wilde was sent from Chuck later.

[00:07:16] But anyway, that's how the church started.

[00:07:18] Wow.

[00:07:19] So it's like this hoodie last year was our 40 years.

[00:07:22] I guess that would be 83, yeah?

[00:07:24] For those who are listening, he has an awesome hoodie.

[00:07:27] It says 40 years on the front of it.

[00:07:29] Is that your logo?

[00:07:30] That's a little coastline logo.

[00:07:31] That's cool.

[00:07:32] So I mean there's a lot to say for 40 years of history.

[00:07:34] But let me just bring us up to where we are.

[00:07:37] I currently serve the church as of September 2020

[00:07:41] as the lead pastor.

[00:07:43] And my father asked me to come countless times

[00:07:47] and I kept turning him down.

[00:07:49] Because he didn't really want to transition out of ministry

[00:07:53] but recognize that the church needed to step into its next generation.

[00:07:58] And one of the guys that trained me, John Corson,

[00:08:00] used to tell me, Neil, if you can find yourself in a church setting

[00:08:04] where two generations will live in the tension that comes from two generations

[00:08:09] and not in a combative way but in a collaborative way,

[00:08:13] you could find a healthy dynamic where God could do so many unique things.

[00:08:18] And so when I heard my dad say, Neil, I'd love for it,

[00:08:22] I was like, OK, John Corson is ringing in my ears.

[00:08:25] So this is what that means.

[00:08:26] Nail gang?

[00:08:27] Yeah, yeah, exactly.

[00:08:28] Yeah, you see.

[00:08:30] Anyway, I thought, all right, so this will look different.

[00:08:34] We talked to Fusco, we talked to Taylor,

[00:08:36] all these boys that transition, talked to a lot of people.

[00:08:38] And learned that there are things that must stay static in a transition.

[00:08:42] There's things that have to happen.

[00:08:43] And then there's things that are dynamic,

[00:08:44] things that are going to be unique to the roles and rhythms

[00:08:48] and responsibilities and relationships of each church.

[00:08:51] And so how we operate is a teaching team.

[00:08:54] And my dad is so gifted in teaching and evangelism.

[00:08:57] And he'd be the first to tell you he's not gifted with staff.

[00:09:00] And I don't know that I'm gifted but I learned.

[00:09:04] Like this is how we function in that capacity.

[00:09:07] And so our giftings collaborate.

[00:09:10] And that doesn't mean there's not tension.

[00:09:12] I mean, you still have an older and a younger, hey, what should we do?

[00:09:15] But here's the thing, because we're related,

[00:09:17] we still have to do Thanksgiving together.

[00:09:19] So you have to work it out.

[00:09:20] Yeah, family.

[00:09:21] Nick, when it comes to generational stuff,

[00:09:23] I mean, we always hear about, all right,

[00:09:25] we need to be reaching this next generation.

[00:09:27] And a lot of the churches that are dying,

[00:09:29] the classic comment is, oh, yeah,

[00:09:32] just a lot of gray hairs are not reaching the next generation.

[00:09:35] So I mean, what's your input?

[00:09:37] And you can ring in on this too, Neil, as to how can we,

[00:09:40] because it's not just church planners that are listening to this.

[00:09:43] There's guys that are pastoring.

[00:09:44] And that's the question we get a lot is,

[00:09:46] how can I get younger people in my church?

[00:09:49] And there's probably good methods and bad.

[00:09:52] But what would you say to that generational thing

[00:09:54] and the importance of it?

[00:09:55] You know what I found about the younger people?

[00:09:58] Maybe it's generational.

[00:10:00] But I find that the current young people,

[00:10:04] they prioritize content over style.

[00:10:09] And I think that's counterintuitive

[00:10:12] because I think that as you get older,

[00:10:14] you think that you have to change your style

[00:10:16] to reach the younger generation.

[00:10:19] It's like Steve Buscemi, hey, fellow youth.

[00:10:21] He has the skateboard.

[00:10:23] It's cool, everything that means.

[00:10:25] Yeah, I mean, I think we actually have a great model for it

[00:10:28] with Cover Chappell, that we have Chuck Smith,

[00:10:30] who is the unhippest person and didn't try.

[00:10:34] He didn't try to be hip.

[00:10:36] He didn't try to speak the language of the kids.

[00:10:38] I did hear him say it groovy a few times

[00:10:40] on old recordings.

[00:10:42] But maybe that was something he said.

[00:10:44] I don't know.

[00:10:45] But my point is that he,

[00:10:47] here's the thing that he did.

[00:10:49] He empowered young people.

[00:10:51] And my pastor, who is Tom Stipe,

[00:10:53] he was one of those young people

[00:10:55] who got hooked up with Chuck

[00:10:57] and then went and planted church,

[00:10:59] reached a lot of young people, et cetera.

[00:11:01] But he always told me that the magic of Calvary Chapel

[00:11:04] or the genius of Chuck Smith,

[00:11:08] that's actually the wording he used.

[00:11:10] The genius of Chuck Smith,

[00:11:12] a lot of people think it was just the verse by verse Bible teaching.

[00:11:14] He said that was good.

[00:11:16] But in his opinion, the genius was

[00:11:18] that Chuck truly believed in the work of God

[00:11:20] through regular people

[00:11:22] and was willing to trust God

[00:11:24] and the Holy Spirit enough to empower young people.

[00:11:28] And so what you do is if young people see

[00:11:31] this is a place where I'm going to be loved,

[00:11:34] but also they're going to empower me

[00:11:37] and encourage me and give me opportunities to serve.

[00:11:40] I think that is absolutely compelling.

[00:11:43] I don't think young people want to just feel

[00:11:46] that like, just hey, just show up

[00:11:48] and be entertained.

[00:11:50] Be entertained. Yeah, that's good.

[00:11:52] I think they want to get their hands dirty

[00:11:54] and I think they want to get involved.

[00:11:56] And actually, so I ended up taking over

[00:11:58] our young adults ministry last year

[00:12:00] because we had a leadership crisis in that ministry.

[00:12:03] And what I found as I took it over,

[00:12:06] I kind of had a pow wow with the young adults

[00:12:09] in our group and I asked like,

[00:12:11] so what is important to you guys?

[00:12:13] What do you care about?

[00:12:15] And one person who's like a leader amongst them

[00:12:18] had said, look, we have free time

[00:12:21] and we want to serve the Lord in ways

[00:12:24] that will change the world.

[00:12:26] And so I think that that is, so content over style

[00:12:29] and give them something to get their hands dirty.

[00:12:31] When you took over the church, Neil, was it,

[00:12:34] would you say that it was like,

[00:12:36] what was the demographic of the congregation?

[00:12:38] First of all, approximately how many people are attending

[00:12:40] the church and what was the demographic when you took over?

[00:12:42] When I took over and then to where it is now.

[00:12:44] As far as the generational things specifically,

[00:12:47] not so much numbers.

[00:12:49] And then we looked around the room and didn't see a lot of people

[00:12:52] like us.

[00:12:54] And then things changed.

[00:12:56] And not so much me, but we started a school

[00:12:59] and when you bring in young children,

[00:13:01] it's also a dynamic where families are around.

[00:13:04] That changed something.

[00:13:06] But also COVID happened.

[00:13:08] It's been a long time since I was born.

[00:13:10] I was born in a family.

[00:13:12] I was born in a family.

[00:13:14] I was born in a family.

[00:13:16] I was born in a family.

[00:13:18] That changed a few things.

[00:13:20] And then Sally happened.

[00:13:22] Hurricane Sally hit our area.

[00:13:24] And it was the week that I stepped into leadership of the church.

[00:13:29] And so here's how I look at that.

[00:13:31] We had, I don't know, 30, 40, 50,000 square feet of space

[00:13:34] that needed to go dormant for about,

[00:13:37] gracious, nine months to be reconstructed because it flooded.

[00:13:41] So here's what happened.

[00:13:42] The week I take over, okay,

[00:13:45] coastline golf breeze before Hurricane Sally

[00:13:48] and after Hurricane Sally,

[00:13:50] but also the same week that I step in as lead pastor.

[00:13:54] So God very graciously sent a storm.

[00:13:57] The way I look at it because what it did for me

[00:13:59] is it cleared the way ahead.

[00:14:01] And I think a lot of life is about perspective.

[00:14:03] You could look at that and go, look at these,

[00:14:05] I looked at it as an opportunity.

[00:14:06] And the way I look at a problem is very simple.

[00:14:08] If there is a problem with CeCe, my wife,

[00:14:12] her name is Cecilia,

[00:14:14] that's a problem.

[00:14:15] Everything else is Apollo Creed,

[00:14:17] it is a mountain decline, it's a dragon to sleep.

[00:14:19] That's a challenge.

[00:14:20] And so like, but if there's something in the home,

[00:14:22] that's a problem.

[00:14:23] That requires my attention.

[00:14:25] Everything else, like, okay, Lord, what are you doing?

[00:14:27] How can you...

[00:14:28] So I looked at it as this challenge.

[00:14:30] What do we do?

[00:14:31] So we restructured a few things and that kind of thing.

[00:14:34] But, and then we say it this way,

[00:14:37] the colonists started to show up.

[00:14:39] The natives were in Northwest Florida,

[00:14:41] but then all of a sudden, thanks to COVID and this, you know,

[00:14:45] this governor that we had, people started moving.

[00:14:48] And it was just this conversion.

[00:14:50] And then there's multi-generational leadership.

[00:14:52] So it was like all these things at once started happening

[00:14:54] that some were in our control, some were not.

[00:14:57] And now it is this beautiful balance of many generations.

[00:15:04] And because we're military and because we're Southern

[00:15:07] and because we're a tourist area,

[00:15:09] it's this strange convergence of culture where it reminds me

[00:15:13] a little bit of Santa Barbara

[00:15:15] and reminds me a little bit of other places.

[00:15:17] But it's Southern.

[00:15:19] And so it's like, you know, I'm an hour from Alabama

[00:15:21] and like not far from Mississippi.

[00:15:23] And so that culture has a flavor to it that's different

[00:15:26] than Central or South Florida

[00:15:28] or Northeast or California Southern.

[00:15:31] I don't know if you know who Jim Gaffigan is.

[00:15:33] Yeah, yeah, comedian.

[00:15:34] He'd said one thing about the South

[00:15:35] that I'll just say to end on this point.

[00:15:37] He goes, you know, the reason the South will never rise again

[00:15:39] is because they're eating biscuits and gravy down there.

[00:15:41] You literally can't get it.

[00:15:43] They do so much hospitality, the food, the y'all,

[00:15:45] the yes sir, no ma'am.

[00:15:46] You say y'all?

[00:15:47] I don't say y'all.

[00:15:48] Have you tried though?

[00:15:49] You got to like, you got to work into it.

[00:15:51] I do.

[00:15:52] I say you got, my mom is from upstate New York.

[00:15:54] Okay.

[00:15:55] And so like there's this blend of like

[00:15:57] North and South in our family.

[00:15:59] But I don't and maybe I have an accent.

[00:16:01] Connor Berry, he was a roommate of mine

[00:16:03] in Bible college.

[00:16:04] Yeah, you're Southern.

[00:16:05] I was like, oh, maybe I am.

[00:16:06] You don't sound Southern.

[00:16:07] I don't sound as Southern as some of our people

[00:16:09] that live 30 minutes different from us.

[00:16:11] See, because the coast changes things.

[00:16:13] But you go 30 minutes North and it's,

[00:16:16] we may not have elk antlers everywhere,

[00:16:18] but we have deer antlers fishing.

[00:16:20] Yeah, yeah, fishing is big in Florida.

[00:16:22] I didn't realize how big it was.

[00:16:23] Yeah, wild Florida is part of our area.

[00:16:25] But I don't know if I answered your question.

[00:16:27] We got alligators, Nick.

[00:16:28] There's all kinds of alligators.

[00:16:29] I want to see one so bad.

[00:16:30] I saw one the other day.

[00:16:31] We were driving in the airport.

[00:16:32] We were in the desert.

[00:16:33] It was my goal when I went to Florida.

[00:16:35] This last time we were in Bradenton to see an alligator.

[00:16:37] And so I was like asking Brian, where do I go?

[00:16:40] So I went to all the places and then I'm pulling out of the parking lot.

[00:16:44] And this guy who was staying with us in the Airbnb,

[00:16:47] he went left and I went right and he ran over an alligator.

[00:16:51] He ran over one.

[00:16:52] And I didn't even, I went right.

[00:16:54] I didn't even see one.

[00:16:55] In our part of Florida, you see a lot of deer

[00:16:57] and a lot of bears.

[00:16:58] So because there's so much development in our area,

[00:17:00] the black bears are everywhere.

[00:17:01] Like two Wednesdays ago, my wife and daughters and sons

[00:17:04] are pulling up and I said,

[00:17:05] why aren't you coming in the house?

[00:17:06] They said there's four bears in our cul-de-sac.

[00:17:08] I'm like, oh well just give them a minute.

[00:17:10] Get the alligators.

[00:17:11] Yeah, but wild Florida is a part of Northwest Florida.

[00:17:14] So it's different.

[00:17:16] Every place has got its own videocrossing.

[00:17:19] Florida's an interesting place.

[00:17:21] We like a lot of things about it.

[00:17:23] We've lived in a lot of places.

[00:17:24] Yeah, and Florida is definitely up there with the very interesting...

[00:17:28] But I was talking to Lynn the other day, my wife,

[00:17:30] and we're talking about how much we love the people

[00:17:33] even compared to some of the other places that we've lived.

[00:17:36] There's a real like,

[00:17:37] I feel like there's a real genuineness.

[00:17:39] People may be at Walmart in their pajamas,

[00:17:42] but it's like they are who they are.

[00:17:45] They don't care.

[00:17:46] Yeah, and it's like, I can work with that.

[00:17:48] Yeah.

[00:17:49] I can work with that.

[00:17:50] I mean to be honest with you,

[00:17:51] these are $3 pajama pants from Walmart.

[00:17:52] So you're a Florida man.

[00:17:54] Yeah, I wear my pajama.

[00:17:56] You still don't know.

[00:17:57] They look like the top, but they are.

[00:17:58] Well, they actually do.

[00:17:59] I was there to say no.

[00:18:00] I'm just joking.

[00:18:02] So what's the plan for the horizon?

[00:18:05] How long was it that you took over the church?

[00:18:08] So September...

[00:18:09] Integrating this role?

[00:18:10] Yeah, September 19, 2020.

[00:18:12] So as we record this, we're in April of 24.

[00:18:15] So we'll have her along.

[00:18:17] Hey, so you mentioned moving.

[00:18:19] You said your dad wanted you to come to Gulf Breeze.

[00:18:22] Yes.

[00:18:23] But you were born in Gulf Breeze.

[00:18:24] Yes.

[00:18:25] I think what I'd love to hear from you about, and this church planting podcast.

[00:18:30] Where did you go?

[00:18:31] Okay.

[00:18:32] And what did you do while you were there?

[00:18:33] I think it might have something to do with church planting.

[00:18:35] So I've moved back to Gulf Breeze three times.

[00:18:37] So we'll cover this most recent comeback.

[00:18:40] Okay.

[00:18:41] How do I tell all of this story?

[00:18:45] 2006 was living in Oregon and had...

[00:18:49] But before I left for Oregon, I called Britt because I lived in Santa Barbara for a while.

[00:18:53] I said, hey Britt, what do you think about reality Pensacola?

[00:18:56] And he's like, what do you mean?

[00:18:58] I said, I don't know.

[00:18:59] But I know that when I was with you in reality, I just liked it.

[00:19:02] I don't know why I liked it.

[00:19:03] I don't know...

[00:19:04] It's really that much different than what Calvary is.

[00:19:06] And I don't even know what that means.

[00:19:08] But I would just love to pray about something with you in Pensacola.

[00:19:12] But I got to go hang out with John Corson for three months.

[00:19:14] And when I get back, there's two things I'm praying about.

[00:19:17] Do I work with my dad?

[00:19:19] Do I do something different?

[00:19:20] And what about this girl named CeC?

[00:19:22] That was why I was there.

[00:19:23] Anyway, while I'm in Oregon, just this dynamic of like, you know...

[00:19:30] My dad had this idea of just keep building bigger on one campus.

[00:19:34] And I thought, man, there's so many...

[00:19:35] We have no Calvaries around us.

[00:19:36] Like what if we were just able to go to them?

[00:19:39] You know.

[00:19:40] And so that gem or seed of an idea was there in like 2006.

[00:19:45] 2008, we have these people from Destin, Florida calling us in Gulf Breeze.

[00:19:50] About an hour apart from each other.

[00:19:52] Said, hey, we would love to see a Calvary Chapel here.

[00:19:55] So my dad sends like whatever he can resources, even finds a pastor to go.

[00:20:00] And then the pastor died about six months later.

[00:20:02] He was an older guy, had some health problems and so they call again.

[00:20:05] Hey, you know, right back where we started.

[00:20:07] We got chairs now.

[00:20:08] We got audio.

[00:20:09] Hey, remember that pastor you sent us?

[00:20:10] Yeah, he didn't make it, man.

[00:20:12] So anyway, by 2009, I had gotten what my responsibilities pretty much

[00:20:19] stewarded by others.

[00:20:20] And so I said, dad, I could go down with those eight people and just lead like four

[00:20:25] chords for the Lord.

[00:20:26] And they were streaming our services at that point.

[00:20:28] They're a requirement.

[00:20:29] Yeah, yeah, you got to know your four.

[00:20:30] Open the eyes, my heart, that kind of stuff.

[00:20:32] But they were streaming our services not by our request or desire, but they...

[00:20:37] What are you going to do?

[00:20:38] And so like, I said, let's just go down.

[00:20:40] So I go down there.

[00:20:41] And out a month later, I'm like, man, we did not do the stream well.

[00:20:45] We weren't set up for us.

[00:20:46] I said, dad, I'm not the best Bible teacher in the world, but let me just teach to the

[00:20:49] gospel of John and lead worship down there.

[00:20:51] We'll just see what happens.

[00:20:52] Well at that time, Maranatha, we had known Phil Wickham for like the longest time.

[00:20:56] And Phil would come and do all of our Easter's and all these events.

[00:20:59] Did you go to Bible college with him?

[00:21:01] No, I went the year before Jeremy Kamp was there.

[00:21:04] It was right around the same time worship generation happened and all that.

[00:21:07] But Phil was doing our Easter Sunday morning in Pensacola.

[00:21:11] So I said, Phil, would you be willing to do Easter Sunday night in Destin?

[00:21:16] He said no.

[00:21:17] And I said, well, we said, well, why not?

[00:21:19] Well, I've never done an outdoor.

[00:21:20] We'll give you $30,000.

[00:21:21] Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[00:21:22] But he said like, I said, well, why not do it?

[00:21:25] He goes, well, I've never done outdoors.

[00:21:26] I was like, well, it's kind of like indoor, but it's just different.

[00:21:28] And so he ended up coming for $2,000.

[00:21:30] He did it Sunday evening.

[00:21:32] And we used that as a platform just to communicate to the community.

[00:21:35] Hey, we're going to start a Calvary.

[00:21:37] So I drove from Gulf Breeze to Destin every Tuesday night for small group,

[00:21:43] every Thursday for office hours and every Sunday for three years from 2010 to November of 12.

[00:21:51] The reason we had bought our first home in 2009 of November under President Obama's

[00:21:57] first time home buyer tax credit.

[00:21:59] Yeah.

[00:22:00] You couldn't sell or rent the home for three years.

[00:22:02] Oh.

[00:22:03] So for three years, I drove the Fred Flintstone 1979 F100.

[00:22:08] What I mean by that is it had no floor.

[00:22:10] That's a cool truck.

[00:22:11] It was a cool truck, but the floor was rusted.

[00:22:13] So I could see my feet and I had a plate over it, but it's like, if you move the plate,

[00:22:17] you're literally looking down.

[00:22:19] So I did that for three years.

[00:22:21] And then when we could sell the house it sold as we were putting the sign in the yard

[00:22:24] and we moved to Destin 30 days later.

[00:22:26] And I pastored and planted that world for seven years living there.

[00:22:31] And we planted two other churches, one's called Gathering Fort Walton Beach,

[00:22:34] one's called Redeemer 30A and then another churches.

[00:22:37] But that all happened out of a very negative, negative reason.

[00:22:42] The reason those eight people were asking us, can you come help is they were attending

[00:22:46] a church in Fort Walton Beach.

[00:22:48] Well, it's just like golf breeze, Fort Walton, Destin.

[00:22:51] And they said, hey, we just feel like the pastor something's off.

[00:22:54] And I'm a pastor's kid.

[00:22:56] So when I hear someone say that, he probably told you no or, you know,

[00:22:58] like, he's don't like them.

[00:22:59] No, no, no.

[00:23:00] We think he's teaching polygamy.

[00:23:01] Polygamy in Northwest Florida in the 2000s.

[00:23:04] No, we don't believe that.

[00:23:05] How far were you from Alabama?

[00:23:07] Yeah, yeah, that's right.

[00:23:08] Yeah.

[00:23:09] The long story short and I won't take time.

[00:23:12] This takes a long time to discuss.

[00:23:14] You can go online and check out the YouTube cold case files.

[00:23:19] James Flanders.

[00:23:21] And long story short, this pastor disassociated from the Calvary movement

[00:23:26] changed his name to Calvary Emerald Coast.

[00:23:28] Secretly had begun a polygamous relationship with his wife

[00:23:32] and another woman named Lori Kasen.

[00:23:34] Out of that dynamic, he fathered a child with Lori named her Grace

[00:23:38] because his theology was Grace is a license to do.

[00:23:42] To do polygamy?

[00:23:43] Yeah.

[00:23:44] And he's, you know, David and all the people.

[00:23:47] And just a disclaimer for the Cultivate Church Planning Program.

[00:23:51] We do not have a polygamy component to the training.

[00:23:55] Let me see if I can get it.

[00:23:56] Let me try and summarize some very like crazy details

[00:23:59] and a lot more stories.

[00:24:01] You need to watch the special, but there was a suicide note that surfaced.

[00:24:07] Oh, Lori's missing, you know?

[00:24:09] The child's around Grace.

[00:24:11] Pastor had scratch marks all over his neck.

[00:24:15] So she went crazy on me and left.

[00:24:17] And now I feel called to go back to Arizona.

[00:24:19] So he left, left the church in Shambles.

[00:24:21] And then the family of Lori.

[00:24:23] This is the church you came into.

[00:24:25] This was the church that asked people from this church.

[00:24:28] They were attending for Walton.

[00:24:30] So here's what happens and this is why I'm trying to share this.

[00:24:34] Eventually through that special, cold case well,

[00:24:38] there was enough circumstantial evidence to bring James back to the state of Florida for trial.

[00:24:44] It was because of the show.

[00:24:45] Because of the show.

[00:24:46] Amazing.

[00:24:47] They used it.

[00:24:48] Yeah.

[00:24:49] The family just stayed persistent.

[00:24:50] We do not believe she committed suicide.

[00:24:51] There was enough circumstantial evidence.

[00:24:53] Once people that knew how to dig started to dig.

[00:24:55] And so here's what he said,

[00:24:57] if I tell you where I buried her,

[00:24:59] can I get a plea bargain from manslaughter?

[00:25:02] So he did that.

[00:25:03] He buried her in his backyard.

[00:25:05] He's currently serving a term that he's about to finish.

[00:25:09] And so here's what my point was.

[00:25:12] So to plan a church in Destin, we're just trying to help.

[00:25:15] And then all of a sudden you realize like,

[00:25:18] well, people are like dying down here for lack of collaboration in some ways,

[00:25:23] for lack of cohesion of unity and vision and heart for the area.

[00:25:27] And I don't have any influence over Calvary Chapel.

[00:25:30] I don't really want any.

[00:25:32] But in that area where it's home,

[00:25:35] I never wanted to see Calvary Chapel bruised and hurt and branded like that again.

[00:25:41] Because when it all happened, here's what the headline wrote.

[00:25:45] Local Calvary Chapel Pastor Commits Murder.

[00:25:48] So who's the only Calvary Chapel pastor in the area?

[00:25:51] And so I kept saying, I'm not that guy.

[00:25:53] I wouldn't be talking to you.

[00:25:55] Murder!

[00:25:56] But here's the deal.

[00:25:57] If I hung the dove anywhere, might as well have been the devil.

[00:26:00] Because everyone saw Calvary Chapel as a bad thing.

[00:26:04] So it wasn't the only reason we named our church coastline.

[00:26:07] But it was a reason because it was like, you know, this isn't helpful.

[00:26:11] We need to have another way to say who we are.

[00:26:15] And we come from a healthy church.

[00:26:17] So we've been around for 30, something, 40, something years at that point.

[00:26:20] So that was the negative impetus for like, and it's really, some people ask,

[00:26:25] why do you care so much about the Gulf Coast?

[00:26:29] That's why.

[00:26:30] Because like, now that's an extreme example.

[00:26:33] But I've also know what it's like to live with ghosts.

[00:26:36] And what I mean by that is where the person is still alive, but the relationship isn't.

[00:26:41] And sometimes that's due to like poor infrastructure, poor communication,

[00:26:45] poor commitment to one another.

[00:26:48] Not always.

[00:26:49] Sometimes 1 Timothy 3 you got to let some people go.

[00:26:52] But I do think a lot happens in church where it's church is like,

[00:26:55] you've heard this, the bowl of cereal, you know, it's full of fruits, flakes and nuts, the church, you know.

[00:27:00] And that's true.

[00:27:01] But I'm going to say something that sounds odd, but it helps me remember it.

[00:27:06] You know, everybody has value, dignity and worth because they're created in the image of God.

[00:27:11] And if you can't show someone respect just because of that nature, I think you're wrong.

[00:27:16] And so this is what I say.

[00:27:17] Everybody is flawed and odd, but if you can't give them a nod, you're wrong.

[00:27:22] And so what I think about that is like it's called fang, flawed, odd, not God.

[00:27:27] Give everybody a nod.

[00:27:28] Why?

[00:27:29] Everyone is flawed and odd, but give them a nod because they're loved by God.

[00:27:32] So if you can't fang, you're in the wrong.

[00:27:34] So like in my situation, I had to become friends with the Anglicans, the Episcopalians,

[00:27:39] the Methodists, the Baptists.

[00:27:41] Like there's no Calvary Chapel in my area and the one that was there, they're killing people.

[00:27:46] And so like I had to learn, hey, wait a second.

[00:27:49] What is the difference between difference of opinion, theological error and heresy?

[00:27:54] And let us not paint with a broad brush every time we disagree and say,

[00:27:58] that guy, like maybe there's just a difference of opinion.

[00:28:01] Maybe there is theological error, but that doesn't mean we can't be.

[00:28:04] But then there's heresy.

[00:28:05] And so like I do think like in my situation, where, okay, what are we doing now?

[00:28:10] Now with coastline Calvary Chapel, there's like nine churches that I would identify or eight churches that would identify as Calvary Chapel

[00:28:16] from Mobile, Alabama to Panama City, Florida that are not all from us.

[00:28:21] Some of them are people move in, but we're talking.

[00:28:24] We're collaborating.

[00:28:25] You're flunging.

[00:28:26] Yeah, exactly.

[00:28:27] We are walking together to just be together.

[00:28:32] And so like that's kind of where like I feel very passionate about like, I love what CCA is doing.

[00:28:38] I love what CGN is doing.

[00:28:39] I love what the Methodists are doing.

[00:28:41] Whoever the person is, but I feel like just very focused on like, hey, Northwest and Seal team Southeast Alabama,

[00:28:48] like and then Mississippi, like these are areas where a lot of people go, is that a place?

[00:28:53] I go, well actually the South Coast is a coast that everyone forgets about.

[00:28:57] Like there's the East Coast and West Coast, even a Florida people at which coast?

[00:29:00] And like there's also a South Coast, which I know my buddy Billy would disagree with me with this because he's from St. Augustine.

[00:29:06] But Pensacola is credited as America's first settlement.

[00:29:09] And there's a cross on Pensacola Beach from September of 1559 where one of the first religious services in America was held to four and about Jesus.

[00:29:19] It was a Catholic Mass.

[00:29:20] And so I always wonder in Pensacola you had the Toronto blessing.

[00:29:24] You have Pensacola Christian, which is like very, very, you know, kind of straight laced.

[00:29:29] What would happen if God were to pour out his spirit and there was this empowering of leaders and a little bit of like strategy and structure and vision, mission and values to see a move of God's spirit,

[00:29:39] have it stay and not be attached to a name but a bunch of names coming back to the generational thing too.

[00:29:48] And I think that's another key draw for the young people is the unity within the church.

[00:29:54] They see the division, they see the attack, they see one side attacking the other over stupid stuff.

[00:30:00] And that's a real turn off.

[00:30:02] I mean it's like people are tired of division in the nation, in the world and the nation and then in the church.

[00:30:09] And I think a lot of guys who are saying, you know, we want the young people but then they turn around and talk bad about the church down the street.

[00:30:16] It's like we have this in common at least, CBS. We were all in this room conceived, born and shaped.

[00:30:22] And so you're shaped by the family you're born into, the culture that's around you and the stories that you're sold.

[00:30:27] Everyone is. And this is what I think.

[00:30:29] A lot of times like guys that have good intentions, well I want to protect the church or I want to make sure we...

[00:30:34] But they don't necessarily see it in these categories.

[00:30:38] Like maybe that guy just has a difference of opinions.

[00:30:40] It's not like right or wrong.

[00:30:42] Maybe that is theological error. That's not heresy.

[00:30:44] It's just error. And then maybe some things are heresy.

[00:30:47] So who is it? God doesn't necessarily get a lot of glory from an ignorant ministry.

[00:30:51] It's not like oh I'm ignorant, therefore God is more glorious. I don't know about that.

[00:30:55] I think the more you learn the more useful you are.

[00:30:58] So like just after the cradle to just before the coffin be a lifelong learner.

[00:31:03] Because when you're done learning you're done.

[00:31:06] And so I feel like it's a bummer but unity.

[00:31:10] Like I think you hit it on the head with that.

[00:31:13] That it is a turn off to people that I know at the surf shop to see Christians bickering over things that they don't even understand.

[00:31:22] Like what are you guys fighting about? You know, like thought Jesus died for you.

[00:31:25] Yeah.

[00:31:26] That makes sense.

[00:31:27] We plant a church in Hungary and we experience something similar to what you're saying.

[00:31:31] And like with needing to, you know, understand the difference between opinion.

[00:31:37] Yeah.

[00:31:38] Even theological. I think that's a really good distinction you made.

[00:31:40] It is.

[00:31:41] That it's not just opinion or heresy.

[00:31:43] There might also be such a thing as theological error which is not intentional.

[00:31:46] Right.

[00:31:47] And so understanding those differences and understanding okay what does that mean then for my relationships with these people.

[00:31:54] Right.

[00:31:55] Both as friends.

[00:31:56] Yep.

[00:31:57] And so I think that's the difference between the two churches partners and the partnership will be determined or at least let's say the breadth of the partnership will be determined by some of those theological factors.

[00:32:07] We experience that a lot because you know I was in a town that was like 90 something percent Roman Catholic but most of those Roman Catholics were also atheists.

[00:32:17] And so.

[00:32:18] It was a cultural thing.

[00:32:19] Yeah.

[00:32:20] And I guess it was like there were two other churches in town and we differed on some things but they were Protestant churches.

[00:32:27] We were Protestant church and we were like hey let's at least be friends because I'd love to have some Christian friends.

[00:32:33] Right.

[00:32:34] And some of those relationships have blossomed into partnerships and things like that.

[00:32:38] I mean you were a missionary.

[00:32:40] Yeah.

[00:32:41] Did you have experiences like that?

[00:32:42] Yeah totally.

[00:32:43] I think on the mission field is where you do value those relationships even more because you almost feel outnumbered as far as you're going to a community that's un-Christian or you know that you're trying to reach and as much help and camaraderie as you can get you want.

[00:33:01] And we did that in Bellingham too up in Northwest Washington.

[00:33:04] You know it was very un-Christian and you know they had a pastor's meeting of like over 100 pastors.

[00:33:11] We just did an episode with J.J. Johnson about that meeting was so powerful for the churches to get together and pray for each other with no agenda just you know I think the issue is we just have our petty things that we kind of think are these are the big issues.

[00:33:27] If you don't agree with me on this then we can't do this together but rather than focusing on what do we have in common what goal are we trying to achieve?

[00:33:38] Yeah and viewing other Christian churches that maybe the differences are small as like competitors.

[00:33:44] Competitors yeah.

[00:33:45] Well a lot of it comes back to insecurity and pride that's my opinion.

[00:33:48] I agree with that.

[00:33:49] It's like you know these guys some we struggle with it I mean if we're all honest it's like we have insecurities we have we want our church to be the best church and the one that people choose over the other churches.

[00:33:59] But in the big grand plan our father who is in heaven he has a desire for his kingdom that we're all working in so we have to get on board or we're not aligned up with what you're seeing.

[00:34:11] Clarity is what provides momentum like who is a Reiner who wrote simple church based on those four pillars of like clarity momentum alignment and focus like when you have clarity that's when momentum starts and then it's your job to align it and focus it in order to yield results.

[00:34:25] And so I think that kind of clarity is well what am I here to build the church yeah but what's the church built the kingdom yeah you know which like so like when I'm here to realize like I'm here to see the kingdom of God thrive.

[00:34:38] And so I think that kind of clarity like provides me with like all right now I know what to do now I got to know I can focus it now I can align it and then I don't have to be so salty about this guy.

[00:34:48] I know yeah you just focused on what you're called to do you know what helps with that though is travel like when you travel when you get out of your zip code realize man nobody knows no one's ever heard a golf breeze.

[00:34:58] I've arrived who are you. How could you not know who Yancy Spencer is like he has a statue like photos one at a time.

[00:35:07] Exactly but travel I think is a wonderful thing like I would just encourage that as much as possible to like expose yourself to different cultures yeah all those things like get the big picture yeah really one just in the church and the world it's like hey we've got a job to do.

[00:35:23] Yeah and then to like learn like oh gosh there were other generations before me like I've come here I had to fly through Atlanta and in their terminal Atlanta shows you the history of like the Decades and you're like look at all these people that came before us maybe I don't know.

[00:35:35] I mean I'm not as important as Coke yeah yeah yeah yeah Coca Cola.

[00:35:38] Neal it's thanks for sharing your story with us.

[00:35:41] Yeah man.

[00:35:42] Been awesome.

[00:35:43] I appreciate you appreciate your dad John give our love to him into the church there praying for you guys and let's get together in Florida sometime.

[00:35:52] Yeah although we live how far away are we like so I'm about eight hours from Orlando so how far west of Orlando so probably similar eight or nine hours because of that panhandle like panhandle.

[00:36:04] Six hours from East to West we get some of the same hurricanes you get though.

[00:36:07] Yes that's true.

[00:36:08] That is true.

[00:36:09] Yes we got that in common thanks again for sharing with us Nick any last words you want to share.

[00:36:13] Well I love the fact that you were planting churches you're still involved in planting churches but you also successfully transitioned to church.

[00:36:22] Yeah exactly.

[00:36:23] I don't hear a lot of great stories about that and and so praise the Lord for that and I love that you guys have a heart for reaching that area with church plants so.

[00:36:32] Yeah and if I could say one last thing about that like like what I enjoy is to work.

[00:36:41] That's what I like like my other relatives that like to have fun and I think like I think fruitfulness is like fun like to me.

[00:36:48] And so like what I would say about the transition is like it's God's grace for sure and a heck of a lot of work.

[00:36:53] Heck of a lot of research hard work intentionality hard work folks.

[00:36:57] Yeah let me share this last thing before I'll just go is this my dad tells this funny joke about the farmer and the farmer you know has this phenomenal

[00:37:05] farm you know the rows are all good fruits going everywhere and some guy comes up to the farmer goes man look at all that God has blessed you with.

[00:37:12] He goes oh God so good.

[00:37:14] You should have seen what he was doing with the field before I showed up and it was just this point that yes God brings the increase but not outside of partnership with you giving your very best

[00:37:25] but also ultimately trusting him but it's just this weird interplay that God will never do your part for you.

[00:37:31] And I do think that work was in the garden before sin was and so I don't know that work is all that's a good point you know agree but in balance rest recovery.

[00:37:40] So yeah I just wanted to share that as it's grace and work.

[00:37:43] Amen.

[00:37:44] All right thanks again Neil for joining us great having you.

[00:37:47] Thanks Nick as always for being with us on the show and talk to you guys soon.

[00:37:52] Thank you.