S4E3: Volunteer Health & Sustainability – Who Carries the Load

speaker-0: Well, guys, I'm excited for this next session for our online cohort. And we're going to be looking at really framing the idea of volunteer health and sustainability and really answering the question of who really carries the load in the local church. And when you think about the local church, it's made up of incredible people. But we through that, you also need incredible volunteers to do a lot of different things. And I know as we get started here, one of the main scriptures that comes to mind is Luke. Chapter 10, verse 2. ⁓ and that that verse is the harvest truly is plentiful, ⁓ but the laborers are few. And so when I look at our panel and our kind of our group here today, we've got some seasoned veterans. We got Daniel, Kyle, and Marlon who are going to bring hopefully some great wisdom to us all as we explore this content. Before we jump in, I would love to have each one just introduce kind of where they're at. ⁓ a little bit about their ministry in thirty seconds or less and we will start with Daniel. speaker-1: I am Daniel Williams, aka Billy Almaghear's co-host. Just blessed to be here with you. I get to serve as a lead pastor in South Florida, Lake Worth, ⁓ Florida, at a congregation there. So blessed to be with you guys and excited to learn from you. speaker-2: My name is Kyle Curry. I am in Murfreesboro, Tennessee. It's just kind of like thirty-ish minutes outside of of Nashville. And my family and I moved here in ⁓ February of twenty twenty to plant a church. And ⁓ we did that. And now we have just ⁓ successfully merged. How successful? Well, it's still in process, but ⁓ we've just merged with another church and so we have become legacy church. And so ⁓ it's going well, but there's ⁓ a lot to figure out and a lot to do. speaker-3: Hey, I am Marlon Brown and I'm in Vancouver, British Columbia. ⁓ I pastor a church called Awake Vancouver. It's a church plant. We've been here about ten years. So blessed to be with these guys and always learning from ⁓ speaker-0: Awesome. Well, my friends and I are going to be looking at this topic today. And hopefully it's a blessing for those who are on this call and who are going to be watching this at some point because every church has this to look at. And again, as we look at that kind of framing verse, ⁓ Luke chapter 10, verse two, you know, we think about the harvest and all the work that is needed being plentiful, but then the people to do the work are a few. I think we can kind of see in there how even in the words in the in the scripture, Jesus was talking about and recognize. That there's a leadership reality around this fact that all pastors feel this tension. And where we think through the needs and how how oftentimes that need is much bigger than really the number of people who are carrying the load or the number of people who are kind of on the team itself. And really in many churches, the challenge isn't a willingness, but it's almost sustainability. And I know we're gonna see that kind of theme. Pop up as we we jump into really the meat of the content today. Because I know all of us, as we've been pastoring, we've seen people start serving with excitement, but then over time we've seen their faithfulness quietly turn into fatigue. And then they raise the flag and they're done, right? They just kind of get worn out. And so We think about burnout, burnout often, you know, hides behind faithfulness. And I know many of us have seen just faithful volunteers and leaders within our churches, but burnout can kind of hide in there. And even some of the most faithful people in our churches oftentimes can be the most exhausted. And so I want to kind of start our conversation really as we start looking at what a healthy church does in terms of volunteers in this case, since we're talking about today, and really the fact that healthy churches don't just recruit volunteers, they really develop and sustain people. And that's kind of the longer call, I think, of what we're looking at doing. And so if burnout hides behind faithfulness, the first place we we need to look really as we kind of start unpacking this topic is who's actually carrying the load. And that's kind of our first segment I want to jump into with our panel here and ask that question who's carrying the load? And when you think about most churches, I know for many of us, we we've seen that small core team Of faithful people where they show up early, they stay late, they fill in all the gaps, and almost over time they become indispensable. But again, they become exhausted as well. And we think about healthy ministry culture, it shouldn't just exist really and celebrate the faithful few, but really it's all about developing the next wave of leaders. And this is where we want to get into some questions because I think we're gonna have some great content. From the years that are ex that are represented here. And so, Marlon, I want to ask this question of you as we kind of jump into a few questions, roundtable questions, and the rest can just feel free to jump in and we'll keep that conversation moving along. But in kind of your view, what are the warning signs that faithful volunteers are becoming fatigued? What do you see in your local church? What do you, what have you seen? speaker-3: I mean, I I think there are a few obvious ones. You know, if it's at a really bad point, people stop showing up and they're calling in sick and you know, those are the the external ones that you can notice right away. But I I think the harder ones to spot, but they eventually show up as well too, is maybe what's going on inside of their heart. You know, they've they've been burnt out, ⁓ they're not being refreshed in the lore, they're not being refreshed in my personal time, they're not being refreshed in community with one another. ⁓ Yeah, you're you're you're just seeing a dryness. Like I said, that one's a lot harder to spot, but I think it eventually does manifest itself in the way that they're interacting with others. Maybe they're shorter with ⁓ the people that they're serving, a little more quick tempered, a little less gracious. I think those are usually things that I'm trying to spot and look. speaker-0: Yeah, it's good. Kyle, Daniel, what do you guys think? What what the things that you see? Some warning signs. Yeah. speaker-2: Well, for me, I I think well, we may go here a little bit later, so we wanna wait on this, but as far as preserving people so they don't get to that burnout, I think it's you know, watching, you know, how they're interact, like Marlon said, but really it's really our job as shepherds to say no for the sheep. And that's like counterintuitive to church planting and because when you church plant you need volunteers and you need servants and so A warm body is a good body and you know, but if you don't shepherd those people and you don't know when to say no for them, then they get to that point where they, like Marlon said, they stop coming back. And I I came from a a church that was set up and tear down in a gym. We got there at five in the morning and left at two in the afternoon every Sunday. And it was an extensive setup and we had an amazing team of fifty plus people that would show up every Sunday morning and you start seeing the same faces every single week and you're like, ⁓ these guys are s Awesome, you know, and they were, but we I didn't do a great job of building infrastructure around them and others around them to to help. And so we kept on calling on the same people and then they stopped showing up. And I look back and I'm like, that's a big regret that I have as leading though those teams of not recognizing those signs of burnout early. But as Marlon said, they're they're hard to recognize because you don't see what's going on in someone's heart all the time. you only see the external symptoms of what's really going on inside and sometimes those are too late to catch and they've, you know, moved on or, you know, so but yeah, I think saying no ⁓ ahead of time before there's that burnout is is crucial. I think of like Psalm twenty three when David said, you know, the good shepherd, what does he do? He makes me lie down in green pastures. He makes me rest. And that's the last thing we want to do. It's like, no, there's something to get done. Like, you're willing, sweet, go do it. But when do we as as shepherds make people lie down in green pastures is kind of the the big question that I have. Yeah. speaker-1: That's that's good, Kyle, because like you know, Marlon, you said it's so hard to see the heart. Out of the heart, the mouth speaks. So when they're short tempered or cynical, those are cues for me. But then like what you said, Kyle, I think guarding them and helping people at our church for volunteers, we purposefully don't allow everyone to serve every week. So we don't know what's sometimes going on people's hearts, but we purposely those that want to serve every single week, we don't schedule them every week so they can just rest and come to church. And then when they do aren't scheduled to serve and if they don't show up, that's another cue. Okay, what's going on in your heart? Let me why why weren't you there just to worship Jesus? You know your value not what you do, but who you are. And so I tend to watch for signs of people's hearts, their attitudes. Are they serving with joy? And then trying to proactively guard their heart as a pastor and shepherd where I could merge I can walk around and just minister to all the teams and just ⁓ sort of talk to them and hear their heart, hear what they're saying. And make it a refreshing time as they serve. speaker-0: That's good stuff. speaker-3: Can I can I throw one more thing in? Because I think we're looking at indicators from the side of the volunteer, which is important. But I think another good reminder too is from the pastoral side. Like if we're assuming that everything's okay and we should we should come with generosity and charity and I guess always be more positive. But if I'm assuming that just because they're showing up every week that that consistency means that they're good, that's also not okay. Right? Like If I'm not checking in with them, that's just as important. So I I'm saying like an indicator for a pastor is if I'm just assuming but I haven't sat down with that person and talked with them and make sure or one of their team leaders who sat down and talked with them, that also should be a warning sign. speaker-0: Yeah, let me throw a wrinkle in here for you and I'll just let whoever wants to grab this, grab this. But I mean, it's true. You know, a lot of people who would be listening to this are pastors or ministry leaders at a high capacity. And we're talking about volunteers, but I mean, at the same point in time, even though we've been called to do something, sometimes it can feel like the things that we do, you know, can can kind of get in that same boat, but we may develop a bad heart towards that. And so maybe a good question to maybe ask is as leaders, how have you checked your own heart when maybe you've had to be the first person there for fifty five Sundays in a row or whatever the case is and you're the last person to leave. I know Kyle's got a great story about that. I don't know if he'll share that. I know we shared it before about cleaning up ⁓ even after everyone has left. But I mean those are things, those are real things that pastors have to go with and oftentimes we're thinking about volunteers, but it often I think time starts with our own hearts. But would love to hear any thoughts that you guys may have there. Well speaker-2: For for what comes to mind is I think what what happens when we become bitter, upset, or frustrated, irritated, whatever, it's because we haven't clearly communicated our expectations. And so when we just assume that people are gonna get it and because we get it, right? But we also know that God has called us to a deeper commitment to his church than the the average person. And so we assume that people are just going to understand that like, well yeah, something's got to get vacuumed or something's got to get picked up. So but people don't. We can't assume that they just understand what goes into an event, a Sunday or whatever. ⁓ and so I think clearly sharing expectations with people will help alleviate some of our frustration when they don't meet those unspoken expectations. I mean think about your marriage. You have expectations of your wife, your wife has expectations of you. But they often go unshared. And then the frustration comes when we don't meet those expectations and our wives are like, What the heck? Like, why don't you just tell me? And I would have done it. You know what I mean? And you're like, well, I shouldn't have to tell you. You know what I mean? And so in a sense, yes, we shouldn't have to tell people, but our job is to as disciplers is to disciple people and is a lot of that is sharing those expectations. So that's gonna alleviate burnout on my end when I've clearly explained. what I'm expecting and maybe my expectations are too high and we can talk through that. If I never share those, it's gonna lead to frustration and burnout because people aren't doing what I think they should naturally know how to do without ever being discipled and how to do it. I don't know if that makes sense. speaker-1: Yeah, no, that's good. I I think too, with expectations, you not just want to have that upfront conversation, but you want to continue to pour in vision. They say vision leaks, right? And I you were saying, Billy, like about our own hearts as pastors. I know for me, I get prayed up during the week before I go and serve. I remind myself those that are great in the kingdom are servants. So now I get to be great in God's kingdom and serve. And I have to mentally know the word, pray through it. I've studied, I've prepped, I've done all this different stuff. Well, a lot of people aren't breathing in and out the ins and outs of church and service and what it takes. So what we do, we've implemented like many little huddles. So Marlon, the ministry team leader, prays with their they come in at a certain time and they pray with their team and they check in with them before they even serve. Or we actually schedule them to come in five minutes before they should be greeting, so that way we can pray and then we can give a word of encouragement. Hey guys, let's remember, just as they set up the temple. To get God's presence. We're setting up this school now for this or giving them little nuggets to remember, to prep, to pray, even before they serve to help shepherd and care for their hearts. I know it's helped me personally as a pastor, but I think it also helps our volunteers as well. speaker-0: Yeah, that's good stuff. Good stuff. Well, I want to kind of look at, ⁓ you know, because again, if we're looking at and putting optics on who's carrying the load, the volunteers, a team, those that are faithful and have been doing it. The next question becomes, which I think Kyle kind of jumped a little bit ahead to, which was great, which was how do we care for them? How do we care for people who are serving? And so the question then kind of shifts, you know, do the volunteers feel cared for? Do they feel supported? They feel valued, you know, all those things come to mind because oftentimes volunteers They don't they don't burn out necessarily because of the workload. They kind of know what they're signing up for, but they start to burn out, I think, because they maybe feel unseen, maybe even unprepared in some cases in certain different aspects of ministry, maybe unsupported. You know, they just kind of got dropped in and they're just, they have no support. They are they're not prepared. And I think people can handle hard work. And we know that God has brought people to do hard work and including ourselves, but they also need to feel valued and equipped. And I think when we put out their, you know, expectations that rise faster, then the support that grows around it, the fatigue kind of begins to creep in. And that's when they feel unseen, unprepared, unsupported. And next thing you know, you get that dreaded planning center decline, you know, where people are launching planning centers, hey, sorry, I'm out, so and so sick, you know, there's gonna be a rocket launch if you're in Florida, I'm I gotta go see that. I can't go to church or whatever it is. That's when all those things start coming out because they're kind of slowly breaking up. With the volunteer team, right? It's just now working out. And so a couple of questions around this. I'm gonna throw this first one to Kyle, because Kyle's probably had to give this some thought since again he mentioned, you know, he's got two churches that are merging together, which is beautiful. The big C church here is coming together. So Kyle, what is appreciation, or maybe what might it look like as you're kind of thinking through, ⁓ in in kind of this future context of the of this of these two bodies coming together as one? What does appreciation look like for the volunteers and maybe some things you're thinking about? Yeah, that's speaker-2: That's a great question. I I would say this that ⁓ nothing makes somebody feel less appreciated and more used than when you only talk to them when you want something from them. And so, you know, think of your your spouse, your kids or you know, it's the only time you're communicating with ⁓ your kids is when you need them to do something for you. Well, they're gonna feel like, what the heck? You know, am I just a means to your end? And the same thing is true with volunteers and servants and and really I don't even want to call them volunteers. We always call them servants because that's the culture that we want to create. But when we ⁓ when we only are reaching out to people when we need something from them, that's gonna be ⁓ a a red flag in in their mind, ⁓ that we don't really value them as humans, as people, as sheep, and that we're only looking to get what we can ⁓ get something out of them. And so for me, you know, something that we have are trying to do or I'm trying to do is just send text messages, you know, just throughout the week. Like I've got a a calendar and I have a reminder on Wednesdays at ten AM to send this person a text on my team and just encourage them. And so picking up the phone and just calling them. You know, of course you can do the appreciation lunches and dinners and those things, but I think the human interaction is gonna be worth more to them than a meal Or a gift card. speaker-0: That's good. I and I would say if you're listening to this and you've not probably thanked one of your volunteers like in person or even over the phone or text something a little bit more, you know, one on one contact and start doing that. That's a good word, Kyle. What about the rest of you guys? What do you think? What are some things you do to do to appreciate volunteers or servants in the church? Yeah. speaker-3: think and and and Kyle touched on this, so I'll I'll just kind of double down, but I think it definitely starts with your mindset. ⁓ because we can get in the particulars. I I I came from a prior to being here in in Vancouver, I was serving in a different church. And man, like there was such not just in volunteer but on the pastoral side of things, there was such an ⁓ constant turnover and burnout. And I mean I I I I love the senior leader. ⁓ I had a when I first came on staff there, there was a lot of praise, like you're doing great, you're doing great, you're doing great and then one of the other pastors was like, Hey, hyper things town warning me, like, be careful 'cause you're gonna burn yourself out and this other individual's probably gonna burn you out as well. And he made this comment that the other senior leader tends to use people like like a dartboard, just throw everyone at the mission. And it it it it it taught me, and I'm still working through this, but like Don't focus on the mission more than you're focusing on the people. Because we can get so caught up. And I think it's specifically as senior leaders, we're very missions minded. We tend to be more type A. We gotta get the work done, we gotta get the work done. Kind of like Kyle was saying, you end up throwing people at the dark board, just treating ⁓ like cogs to get things done. So the mindset, people, not just mission, the people themselves are the mission. One way that we practically try and do that is just remembering that people are people and they have schedules. So not over scheduling them, making sure ⁓ we're working in teams and rotations, that's pretty big for us too. Just you know, you have lives. Your life isn't just serving here at this church. speaker-1: Yeah. That's a good point because when you think about people and lives, one of the ways that we can appreciate people is communicate and plan. So clarity is kindness. Kyle talked about giving expectations. When do you show up? When do you don't show up? Training, letting them know. That's actually a way you appreciate people, training them, giving expectations, but also being like, Hey, a month and a half out we had this event. Hey, I know that we're coming up in the in April and Easter's coming. Does anyone have any blackout dates? And and making sure that you're working with people and realizing that they're actually people to appreciate them. And then ⁓ I I love saying thank you. I love telling public publicly praising people from the stage, but also just behind the scenes. Anytime I can make an excuse to say thank you or show love to people that are serving in our church, I do. Even doing old school, even just this last week, I wrote sixty handwritten cards. To all of the serve teams and gave them a little free book praying for them because I know that Easter's coming up, but not praying for them for Easter, but saying, Hey, I'm praying that you would have boldness as you invite your friends and family. I want to make sure you know that your prayer team is praying for all your friends and family that don't know Jesus yet. And if we can support you in any way and just pray for them by name, let us know. So no agenda, no, you know anything, but just letting you, you know, Christmas comes up, I'm gonna give you a gift. New Year, hey, it's a new year. Here's a book for vision. Just, you know, spring cleanup, you got rid of some shirts. Here's a new t-shirt. I mean, I just want to make sure that I am continually focusing and loving people. Cause I I think it's not just what we do, like you said, that mission and dartboard, but how we do it and loving people is so important. So I want to be able to appreciate, praise, thank. A pastor friend of mine said, and I don't know if this is theologically correct, but he always said, Dan, you know, God gets the glory, but people get the credit. And it's pretty true, right? Like God always gets the glory, but when we actually serve unto the Lord, the Bible says he's gonna reward us for those things. So it's good to just remind people and thank people and say, Hey, you what you're what you're doing in your faith, it's all by God's grace, but your faith and and effort, it does matter. And it makes a di difference in my life personally, ⁓ but in the people's lives around you and in this church. So yeah, I don't know. I don't know. What do you guys think about that comment? God gets the glory, but people get the credit. speaker-2: think it's it's it's true but it's unfortunate, right? Like we should be giving the Lord the credit, but I'll take an attaboy, right? I mean who who doesn't want an attaboy? And then, you know, we think of like miracles even, I know this is off topic, but like we don't accredit miracles to the Lord as much as we do like, wow, that was just great medicine. That was just great physician's work. That was just you know what I mean? But it's like when you pull that stuff back, like the Lord was doing that, you know? And so I know it's off topic, but anyways that that's what came to mind when you when you talked about that. But I think it's true. speaker-3: Think it has to be a negative thing, right? Like it it it can be positive because we are co laborers with the Lord. Like He's invited us into the work with Him. So that can be framed as a very positive thing as well. Something to celebrate, something to acknowledge. So I mean, I think you can get evil if the heart is evil and just wanting the credit, but seeing that as participation with them and getting getting credit that he allows us to do this, that's that's a wonderful thing. And that is something, even from a volunteer perspective, like, hey. This is the motivation for why we serve, right? Not just because you have to, but man, the Lord has given you this wonderful opportunity to be able to come and collabor with him. That's a blessing. speaker-0: A lot of great wisdom here. And I love hearing all y'all's hearts for the people that God's ⁓ brought to you to be part of the fellowships that where you're at. And that's, I think, the the that's the heart behind it is really caring about the people. And I think that's that's the point. And so again, if people, if you're watching this and like you you struggle, I know sometimes it may you maybe you're not comfortable talking one-on-one with people or texting them, and that might be a struggle. You're okay like giving a message that the Lord has given you, but really encouraging others. But that really does go a long way. And I would say find the A thing that works for you to encourage people because really it kind of leads us into our our third and final segment, which talks about how healthy volunteers or servants oftentimes can grow into something more. Like God can be doing something behind the scenes. And I often think about my journey, and it's probably similar to many of yours. Like my journey didn't didn't start you with with someone handing me a Bible and say, Hey, could you go share a message? My my journey started at the end of service when I was stacking chairs. ⁓ and then I then I got keys to a box truck. And you know, it just kind of just dip whatever was needed, you I just kind of started doing, but but there were pastors and leaders that were pouring into me along the way. But when you think about healthy volunteers kind of growing into something more and stepping into the calling that God has called them, that's what it's all about. That's what's following Jesus ⁓ and cultivating people is all about. And, you know, that really kind of leads to the next kind of question is that sometimes, and I hate to say it this way, but it's true. And I know none none of us would probably admit it, but when we think about like, All the things that need to get done on a Sunday morning or throughout the week and the things that you do in the church, sometimes it can it can easily slip into filling roles, right? We're filling a spot, filling, I need someone here for two hours. I need someone, I need someone at the front door or whatever the case may be. Instead of thinking it as like you're developing this future ministry leader who God might use this as a stepping stone into what He's ultimately calling them to. Which I think is a bigger picture and it kind of frames really this idea that we are stewarding someone that the Lord has brought and helping us not just fill a role in the church, but really to step into the destiny that He's called them to. And we get to to borrow that time for a little bit. And so when we think of this segment three and kind of the final thing we're gonna be looking at here is really are we thinking of just, you know, leaders? In the context of what God is calling them to be, future leaders in some way, or just helpers. And when you think about this fact, every every ministry needs volunteers and leaders and people kind of stepping to the next level. But in many churches, leadership happens by necessity rather than design. And so part of this really, this volunteer culture is it's kind of a track, if you will. It's it's a way, not the only way, but a way to help people step into their calling. And so someone becomes The leader because you know, oftentimes they're the they've been on the team the longest, or maybe, you know, they showed up the most, or no one else stepped forward. They're gonna see that as maybe I need to be intentional here. Maybe I need to use this volunteer thing as a leader, leadership pipeline, or or or something, whatever you want to call it. Because discipleship always moves, you know, towards responsibility and multiplication. That's a whole idea, right? And that's volunteer is kind of a great way. someone jumping into it being a servant or volunteer, that's a great way to kind of step into that season. speaker-1: No the people that love me and I love them. That speaker-0: ⁓ okay. Well, here's my question for you. How does someone move from volunteer to leader? And I'm using those terms, you might use something else. How does someone move from volunteer to leader at your church? What's that look like? speaker-1: Someone who goes from a volunteer to a leader would sort of be like the cream that rises to the top. So as they're practicing their gifts, every serve team has a leader over it. And they are one of their jobs as a leader is to have apprentice. So they're trying to discover and identify people's gifts. And as they're practicing it, see who actually has that gift of administration, leadership. And as people practice those things, they'll say, Hey, I see this in you. Would you come a little early and let me show you, or would you do this with me? And so one of the ways a vul a volunteer or someone just loves greeting would come into that leadership position is we would see some gifts, some abilities, and then we would just start pouring into them and doing it with another leader and then specifically be intentional and say, Would you be an apprentice? Or would you want to start serving this ministry once a month or every other week or something like that? So it's very relational, but if you could train your leaders to pour into other leaders, it becomes very fruitful, not only for the people coming up, but those leaders to help discover di gifts and develop people rather than just positions. speaker-2: Yeah, I think it's it's recognizing people again for for being humans, for being sheep, you know, versus just a a means to an end. And so if we're looking at them as being image bearers of God, well then God's got a greater calling than just filling a a stop being a stop gap. And so it's understanding that there's more to that person than just filling a specific spot. that God may be doing something in their heart that he wants more from them. And so, you know, just understanding that when you're going in, scheduling your your serve teams, your volunteers, understanding like a who among these people has God already been doing a work in their life. And I think all we really do, at least what what I really do, is I just recognize what God's already doing. I don't create leaders. God creates those and I just see what God's doing and hopefully I have the wisdom and discernment to to lean into that and to push them along. And so Just being discerning with our volunteers, with our servants, and looking at them again as image bearers versus just, ⁓ hey, I need this done and they're faithful. And faithfulness is awesome. And so lean into that. Typically, if they're super faithful, God's already doing something, stirring something up in them. And they may be the one that goes from volunteer to leader of that ministry that they're just serving in. That's what happened to me. I was just serving in a youth group and I had no desire to be a youth pastor or anything. I was just like, There's a need, sure. Someone asked me if I would do it. I said yes. And then God began to give me a heart. I loved it. And then I became, you know, a deacon and then a a pastor. But it it was born through already doing the thing. speaker-0: Good stuff. Marlon, what do you think? speaker-3: Yeah. I mean within within the context of our church, I think it happens in different ways for different people. Sometimes it's been just way more organic. Kind of like you said, there's there's a need, person's stepped into a need, they were faithful to that need. There wasn't this set out plan of, ⁓ now I'm gonna disciple them to become, you know, X. The the Lord did the work. But then there have been other times where I've been way more intentional. I've spotted certain giftings in people, a few years back, church plant, very small, but I did the majority of our teaching. I I knew I was gonna get burnt out. I'd also like to get on go on vacations. So I I I set out and grabbed a couple of guys together and it was like, hey, let's start studying the word together. And then let's give you opportunities to teach. And then now you're we're a teaching team that collaborates once a week and works on sermons together. And so that was way more of an intentional thing. But either way, and I think Daniel hit it, ⁓ whether it was more organic or more intentional, it's always been relationships. There's always been times where we've sat together and processed things. The Lord elevated off the cream to the c brought the cream I don't know, something to the crop to the top. To the top. ⁓ speaker-0: No, that's good. And I think, you know, all of us hit something there. It's there's not a one size fits all. There's not just a one way to do this. And I would encourage everyone, because I think for many of us, it often started with a leader that was a little bit further down the road that invited us into serving. ⁓ and then seeing gifting invited us to maybe step even up to a level where maybe we didn't even think we were capable of doing or sustaining even ourselves because it was new or whatever. But when you think about a church that can kind of then create a culture with their volunteers, experienced teams, servants, whatever you want to call it, where we're looking to to really help people excel in what God's called them to do, that really moves the needle from just, I need to fill a role, or I need people or warm bodies to know these are these are active opportunities, right? To to serve God in in your giftedness. And it puts the right people in these spots. And as the Lord brings people and as he grows and does things in the church, that allows really us to fulfill the Great Commission. That's it's discipling. It's allowing them to grow and to to step into their to their calling. And so when you think of kind of all these different segments and how they kind of all play out. And of course we could go on and on and on and talk about this, but really when volunteers are healthy and and leaders are developing, when you have that going on in the church, the church really becomes what I like to view as this as sustainable, where we're not having to worry and think about How's that going to get done? Or we often then we also don't just become busy with just a bunch of people doing stuff. There's an intentionality behind that. So no matter really what size you are, every church has to have some way that they're growing these, you know, growing servants and leaders and volunteers because we've all experienced that. And really the whole idea isn't just to grow exhausted ones. It's to grow them to what God is calling them to do, to steward that time. And as we all know, faithful people will always say yes because they see a need and they're just gonna go do it. But really as leaders, I think the charge that that I was reminded of is that we have to make sure that faithfulness doesn't lead them to fatigue, burnout, disconnecting from the church because all the church wanted was, you know, A, B, and C for me. And so there's always that balance as leaders and as pastors to to really take care of, you know, the people that God has brought to us, to to you know, in a good way, help push them into what he's calling them into. But that means we got to know them. And so you never get away, I think, as pastors, from kind of knowing that. And if you think about healthy churches, and I I think all of us would agree here, but it's great to grow in attendance, but that's that's not the only thing that matters. We we want to see growth in people. And whether you're a church of 10 or 10,000, you still want growth of people in in the Lord. And so I just want to, you know, thank you guys for for your contribution to to what what our content was today and kind of looking at volunteers and really the sustainability of what God has called us all to do. And I would just encourage those that are watching and are going to be watching this later on to kind of dive into this, maybe a little bit with your leadership team and kind of see how are the, you know, what are some things that you can do to practically identify how to help this, you know, make this culture better. ⁓ how you can encourage volunteers as we even talked about, and maybe even how, maybe just identify one, two, or three future leaders from the group that's currently serving and intentionally investing in them. Again, on behalf of all of us here, I just want to thank you guys for watching and hope you are able to kind of deploy this in your ministry as the Lord leads and we're able to give him all the honor and glory.