S4E4: Understanding the Importance of Rest in Ministry

speaker-0: Well, hey guys, we are excited about the content for today. We're gonna be looking at something I think that's near and dear to most of our hearts, especially after a busy, busy week or weekend, which I think most of us have experienced. If you're watching this perhaps in real time, you know we just came out of Easter weekend, and which in the church world is a big thing. So we're gonna talk about rest in ministry. ⁓ and if you think through kind of the the aspect of rest, obviously it's necessary, but I wanna I wanna kind of anchor it in a verse that I think many of us would know. ⁓ Mark chapter six, verse thirty-one, and it says, ⁓ come aside ⁓ by yourselves to a deserted place and rest a while. Doesn't that sound good? Like, why don't you just come over here, hang out, and rest a while? And so when we think about ministry, it's not ⁓ you know, it is unique in in this aspect that the work that we do is is very meaningful because it has eternal impact. ⁓ there's always a need, there's a consistency of need for ministry. And the opportunities to serve at wherever you serve and however you serve, they never ever end. So that the tension comes in to where if we're not intentional, rest is usually for most ministry leaders and pastors, the first thing to go. I've got too many things to do, so rest has to go out the window. And so even in the scripture, the disciples were good at you know work and doing important work, but yet Jesus still calls them and even calls us to rest. And so the thing we know about it, rest and ministry. ⁓ if you have been around church for a while and kind of ministry for a while, ⁓ we know that that ministry, if if you don't rest, the next thing for you is exhaustion. ⁓ and that rest really isn't a reward for finishing a ton of work. It's really more rooted in this idea of rhythm, which we're going to be kind of getting into. And so I've got a great panel here. I think you're gonna know probably some of them, but I want to take a moment and let our panel introduce themselves and we're going be introducing some topics and covering a lot of things. And I know that everyone on this call is going to be bringing a lot of wisdom. And so I'm going to throw it over to Daniel to start the introductions and then we'll jump into our content. speaker-1: Yeah, I'm Daniel Williams. I pastor here in Southeast Florida, Calvary Chapel, the Palm Beaches. Always excited to be hosting and a part of this discussion and conversation, especially with good friends from pastors around the world. Hey, I'm speaker-2: I'm Jared. I'm serving in Northern California at Open Gate Christian Fellowship and been here for almost seven years. And ⁓ we've got five kids and my wife and I are blessed to be here and thankful for all that the Lord's doing. Hi. speaker-3: Caca. I'm from Brazil, south of Brazil, Curitiba. And we're just launching the church next week. And I'm married, have three kids, and I'm really pumped to be here. What I really honor to hang out and talk about something so important that it's about resting in ministry. So that's gonna be fun. speaker-0: Thank guys for being here. And as you can tell if you're watching and or listening to this, you know, we've got a wealth of information. ⁓ a lot of people in different seasons of whether they're planting or planting again, or just even in church, or have busyness in family. And so hopefully this resonates with many of us. But we've got to kind of start really with this idea that if rest is essential, there's kind of a question I think that goes with it. And we have to ask. Why is it so hard for us to actually practice it? I mean, if it's essential to life and ministry, why is it so hard for us to practice it? And so, kind of thinking about pastors and leaders, why do pastors and leaders struggle to rest? And I think for many of us, we feel like, well, the mission feels very urgent, which it is. I mean, we're changing the world. And through the power of the Holy Spirit, we're, you know, the lives are being changed. People have needs. There's always something more to do, but underneath There's this little danger. ⁓ and and sometimes our identity can be tied to productivity. Guilt can set in when we feel like we're slowing down or we may take a day off. We might feel even guilty, or we may even feel like we're falling behind. I know that never has happened to any of us, right? We feel like we're falling behind. And so I want to kick a question off. And I want Jared, you're gonna get the first one here. And and the crew here will jump in to kind of throw in just ⁓ I think a wealth of information here. But I want to ask Jared, what makes it hardest, maybe for you? personally to rest in busy seasons of ministry. speaker-2: couple things come to mind. You mentioned some of them already, but guilt, you know, just feeling like I'm gonna let people down. And sometimes the person I'm letting down is myself because I have a a higher expectation of productivity that I really want to accomplish. ⁓ I just want things to be better. Like I kinda have the personality that there's always more to do. And even when my message is done for Sunday, I can make it better. I can keep going. And I just have to let go of that and say, Okay, Lord, here's what I've got. It's gotta be you 'cause I'm just bringing the loaves and fishes today. So yeah, I struggle with guilt. I struggle with letting people down, letting myself down. I struggle with control. I struggle with pride because sometimes I feel like it's maybe easier to just do it myself than to train somebody else to do it and or it'll go smoother if I Do this one little thing as opposed to let somebody else do that and give myself a a chance to break and rest. So those are the first things that come to mind. speaker-1: Yeah, I often have to tell our congregation this, and it's more of a reminder to me, you are not God. And I think sometimes we never want to say that. Like, you know, we want to say Jesus is our Savior and Lord, but when we actually have to trust him with everything, it really is hard to take rest because we have to play the position of we are not God. We are not in control. That's why I think the Sabbath is so good. It's a weekly rhythm to say, Hey, I have a capacity, I have a limit, I am not infinite, I am finite. And I can't do everything. And so I know one of the resistance or temptations for us to be is because we're leaders and people are always looking to us, we get sort of a God complex thinking that we can do it all and we should know all and be all, but that's God's role, not us. And that's why it's so important to practice rest and a great temptation for us not to practice rest. speaker-3: Yeah, I agree with what was said. The thing is very normal, unfortunately, to think that things will not go well without us. And they they were so important that people need us so badly, you know. And I one of the things that that I realized that to trust the Lord that we are not the most important and things things gonna go well without us even like if it is for a day And it if it is for weeks or like even months, right? So like I've been on s on a sabbatical for three months last year. And I was afraid, I was concerned, I'll be really honest here, that I would get back home and everything was just great and amazing. And it was like, the church doesn't d they don't need me, you know? And that was exactly what happened. I got back, everybody was like, The church is doing great. You know? So it kinda like it it kinda hurts a little, you know you know, our pride. But I think the hardest thing for me it is to to think that something that I o I don't know I don't know if it's a Keller Chapel thing, you know, but people from back in the day, I was used to hear that we're gonna rest in heaven forever, you know? And every time I'm kinda resting I'm thinking like I'm not in heaven, you know, it's it's like it's my questions like s out of voice, something, you know. So yeah, it kinda take it took me a long time to kinda break up from this voice, you know. It's like, Yeah, it's true, we're gonna rest in heaven forever, but we're gonna work that too somehow, you know. But anyways. speaker-0: Yeah. Yeah, I think that's that's great, man. I and I appreciate you sharing that perspective, Kaha. You know, just having that sabbatical and and you're right. I think we would all like to say, ⁓ I would love to take, you know, however many months off and take some time away. But I think the real fear for many of us, and I'd probably put myself in that same camp, is that, well, I'm not gonna be needed. I'm not going to, you know, we feel like rest is a you know, when we rest, we're not being productive. And so our identity comes into play there. And I want to kind of toy around with this one question here and kind of muh think through it a little bit and maybe throw it back out to you guys and see what you think. And maybe Daniel, we'll start with you. But I want to talk about like there's calling, right? And then there's capacity. And while true, the Lord can call you and you're, you know, an expression of the mission that you're accomplishing for the Lord, but then your capacity is really what allows you to fulfill that in whatever capacity, the speed and everything goes with it. And for instance, I could come in and feel called to in my area Saint Augustine, but the calling that the Lord has for me and the capacity is giving me may be different than another church planter and someone else. And so I want to kind of wrestle through because I think sometimes it's easy for us to look at all the churches on Instagram, this, that, and the other, and we think everyone is doing great. They're, you know, they're they're they're always doing five more things than we are, and you know, whatever. And we can kind of wrestle with that. But I want to just take a moment and wrestle with calling and capacity. And I want to see if What wisdom Daniel can drop on us with regards to that and maybe rest. ⁓ speaker-1: When I think of calling capacity, I think of self-awareness. You gotta be wise as a leader to know what God has called you to do and then how to actually implement that. First Corinthians talks about each one has a measure of grace or a capacity. And so I may have a capacity to do fifty hours a week or seventy hours or thirty hours a week. ⁓ I may have a different capacity than someone else, and in second Corinthians, Paul says it's unwise to compare one another, our capacity to one another. Because we're all under God's authority. He's the head of the church and he's called us to do different roles, different members. We we think about this literally when we talk about the church and and the mouthpiece and the liver, but we don't often think about different churches in the community having a different role. Some are more evangelistic, some are more class driven. Those certain things based off of gifts and the grace that God's given us. And the beautiful thing about capacity and calling is when you understand the grace of God in your life, you're able to operate based off of favor and joy and worship and not guilt, not shame, because God hasn't called you to do all this other stuff. ⁓ I I learned a long time ago, you got to say no to a lot of good things. So you can say yes to a God thing. And so really understanding who you are in God, in Christ, what grace and gifts he's given you will actually help you know your capacity to say no to the 17 other things that are really good, but God hasn't called you to do that. 'Cause he knows your capacity and even in your weakness he'll use you 'cause he'll be strong in that. So I just sort of think about those things when I think about, man, grace, comparison, what to do, how to do it. We can really overdo it quickly when we don't understand the capacity and the grace God's given us. That's good, good. speaker-0: Jared, Kakai, any any thoughts there? speaker-3: I I was just rem yeah, I was just reminded, you know, I think the whole idea of capacity, I think as as Daniel said, the thing about be aware of, it doesn't come too obvious. It's like w we we we need self awareness and and a lot of times when we realize we went beyond that we should. So I think I think it's really important that we know ourselves. And I think I don't know about you guys. Normally our w my wife she does a really great job on that. You know, she's always like caring for because she's more quiet and introvert. She n she's kinda she she mastered it. She was like, Hey, you know, if we're gonna go tomorrow and gonna spend the whole day with people, like we cannot do this today. You know? We're gonna just say save it for tomorrow. Or like or we're gonna do it tomorrow, ⁓ the day after tomorrow, we're gonna rest. And and for me, it was just intr like Just a few weeks ago I was in South Florida and I thought I'm gonna be there for a week, you know? That was won't be a big deal. I'm gonna do things that I love and I'm gonna hang out with friends. And I had a something really important coming up just a few days later. And it was something I was like waiting for many years to be part of. Like kind of it was not a conference, it was a training for catalyzer from city to city. And I was like, I'm gonna spend a week in South Florida, I'm gonna come spend some days with the family. And I jump on the bus on a Monday I'll be there. And when I got home, some friends said, Dude, you look very tired. And my mom's like, I don't think you should go. And I was like, All right, I'm not going. You know, it's something really awesome, but I'm not going. So but I realized that my capacity was already over. And I I had to kind of rebuild on that. So I think self awareness is something that we need to trained to be trained, you know, otherwise like we're gonna think that we still have a lot but we we don't. So that's when it crash and speaker-0: No. No, that's good. I I remember a mentor of mine, ⁓ Crawford La Ritz had had had a statement in one of his books and it talks about leadership as an identity, was the name of the book, but he talked about like that capacity and calling and all that stuff. And he he would often ⁓ just remind us that, you know, the Lord will remind you of your capacity sometimes in a in a very memorable way. And so it's good for us to kind of pay attention to to to the capacity and kind of what we're doing. So I want to kind of talk to you. So we talked again about, you know. Rest and things like that. And and most of us I think would say and think that if I if I do rest and I don't get to do items A, B, and C. If you if you're like a list keeper or whatever, right? But there's also a cost I wanna want us to kind of think through of not resting, that there comes a cost like when we when we choose not to rest and continue to push through and continue to do, do, do, go, go, go. When we skip that, we think it's making us more effective. But actually there's a cost. And I want to kind of maybe throw this idea out there, but I would say without rest. Clarity begins to fade, patience with others, maybe our family shortens, joy begins to diminish, people become problems instead of the purpose of what we were called to do. And I think all of us have experienced this some level. And in the most dangerous aspect, we begin doing spiritual work, which is eternal, but without being spiritually healthy. And so I want to throw a question out there and we'll we'll throw this cock out. We'll get you going on this one here. But maybe, I mean, and I think it'd be good from your perspective because you've gone through a season of sabbatical. You've planted sabbatical, now you're about to start planting again. What are the early, at least in your perspective, early warning signs of maybe burnout or you really needing to to have that rest? What have you seen in your own life? speaker-3: Yeah, I've been I've been d like in different places in different positions when it comes to that. But I remember one time that was very crucial for me. I love to be around people. You know? That's how I get energized. Like I love being by myself with books and coffee. But if I c if I can choose, I'll be around people hanging out, eating good food, you know. And one day I woke up and I was like I don't wanna go anywhere. I don't wanna see anyone. You know? And I realized I was like, that's not me at all, you know. So that's when I looked for help and and then I I I was talking to Lily and my wife and she was like, Looks like you've been like that for a little while, you know? And I just thought how far you'd go on that. And so I looked for help and I started, you know, doing some homework or the things that interchange. But I remember, like for a guy who loved to be around people. And I remember that was a key moment. Actually, like there was two days. There were two days on that. But there was one that was I was hanging out somewhere and I loved coffee shops. And that was this really nice c coffee shop. And I decided not to go to stay alone in my room. And then I was like, I'm gonna call Lily, I'm gonna talk to her, you know? And then I after that, there was the what I said, I was at home and I woke up and I didn't wanna see anyone. So for me It is a sign, as you mentioned, Billy, the losing patient kind of thing. For me, it is to not to not want to be with people. And for me is also the thing with kids. Some of the kids like seem to part up all the time, even though they are not, it is a sign. So normally like I know that when I realize I'll go and talk to Lina and say, Hey, you think I'm running out of patients? She'll be like, Yeah, you are. You know? So yeah, that's big signs for me. speaker-0: So you're saying your wife is a sounding board. I like that. speaker-1: Yes. speaker-3: Yeah. And she does it really well, very graciously, you know. speaker-2: Yeah, I can testify to the importance of a godly wife who can, you know, without my wife, I'd have crashed and burned a dozen times already. Just because I have very poor self awareness and she can help me realize where I'm at before I realize it. Kakaz, you were talking about, you know, your relationship with your kids and your family. That starts to go. It starts to change. You can't enjoy the things that normally you do enjoy. That's a that's a big sign for me too in worship. When I c when I can't worship, because my brain's just so full of like tasks or things I'm trying to get done, that's a big warning sign for me. I think of Colossians three fifteen talks about the let the peace of God rule in your hearts and losing that peace of God where you're just you're just working, like you're just chugging, but there's no peace because it's not spiritual, it's fleshly. And ⁓ yeah, those are all things I can relate to. speaker-0: But how would you recognize when your soul, not just your schedule, is tired? How do you recognize that? And just in what you've seen in ministry, maybe yourself and others. speaker-1: Personally for me or principal for everyone. Both. Like what what okay. The thing that comes to mind is he refreshes others, is himself refreshed. There's that proverb that says when you give out and pour out, you actually receive something like a blessing. And I find myself that when I'm pouring out and I'm not finding joy in it, the motivation in something is wrong. I'm doing it for a different motivation or reason. I'm doing it because of the list or the law that I have set up that if I do a whole bunch of good things. It's going to appease God, make God happy, do something, and that is a key sign for me. If I can serve and that I find joy in that and it's worship unto me, then I'm myself being refreshed. So ⁓ that that sort of comes to mind personally for me, but when I've seen like in a general principle rule of like how I've seen people lose sight of things, I think that Colossians 315 verse that Jared mentioned is very key. I find when people are are striving or stressed and doing it out of a place of guilt or have to rather than want to. That's a very key indicator for a lot of people. Cause I think we all went into ministry because we wanted to. We were all we're we were all responding to Jesus and it was an overflow of our hearts. And so when it doesn't become a response of wow, this is amazing because Jesus is amazing, we actually start becoming like Martha and and worrying and tripping and doing a whole bunch of stuff. Because we're ex thinking that doing the stuff is worship rather than Jesus, you're awesome. I'm doing it because of you. So I sort of notice personally in my own self that principle, but I've seen so many people start well out of response and love for the Lord and then they just forget they're actually doing it and why they're doing it. And I think that's something very critical for our soul to understand what what we're doing and why we're doing it. speaker-0: Yeah, I think the I like the way you stated that the list and laws. I think that we can kind of just build in our own heads over time. You know, I've got this list, I gotta go do it, and I've got my own set of rules and this is just what I do and when I do it and this is how it goes. And we can get kind of trapped in that. So no, that was that was very good. I appreciate you sharing that. And when you think about again the cost of not resting, you know, so then it it leads to this idea of well, how you know, what does it look like to build rest in your life? And again, I think the beauty of being in groups with other leaders and pastors is that you get to learn from one another. And it's not just one particular way. I know for me, I like to ride a bike. That's my thing. And, you know, if I want to go out on a Friday and ride on the beach or just maybe go out on a Saturday, like for me, it's just a way to kind of just just have time to yourself and kind of rhythms of rest or taking that day off, their Sabbath day and what that looks like. But we do know is that however you decide to rest, rest doesn't happen accidentally. You don't just roll out of bed as like, ⁓ I think I'm just gonna rest today. You got to plan for it. And healthy leaders and ministry leaders and pastors, what I've seen is they they tend to build their lives with intentionality. And I'm not saying you gotta have like everything scheduled by the minute, but I would say you need to be intentional, certainly, about rest. And so whether that's boundaries around certain times and availability, like I know Daniel, I know when I could shoot him a message on certain days and I know that he's not going to get back with me. Why? Because I know like that's his Sabbath day. Like he has set boundaries. And I think setting margins and schedules and trusting that that God is going to work, even though when we're not, those are all things that are part of rest. And so really it makes rest for us is really ultimately coming down to an act of trust. Do we trust the Lord who called us to something to still work? And move the things that need to be moved and to grow us even when we are resting. And so I just gonna throw just some a question out there and anyone can feel free to jump in. But I would love to kind of hear what seems to be working for you so that those who are watching this can say, man, I'm maybe I'll give that a try. But what rhythms of rest have been most life giving to you? And I'll start with Kaka. Let's start with you, Kaka. What's been working for you? speaker-3: I think getting prepared like ahead, knowing that a busy season's coming, just taking advantage of time to enjoy like quiet time, whatever. Like, you know, into different places that I like and hanging out with the family. Enjoy I love to hang out with Lillian a lot. So remember when the kids go to school or say, Hey, like the next days and we're gonna be pretty busy. Let's go do stuff, you know. I think that's one of the the things that I really enjoy doing. So I know that the for example, I know Easter's coming, you know. I knew some weeks before that we could enjoy some great time together and do the things that we like, you know. One of the things that I I'm used to say that the Norwegians they know how to rest well. You know? They learn like in school how they rest. They go up in the mountains, you know, they go to like to the fiwars. They go out fishing and th that's how they're they're that's how they do life, you know. Day off, let's do something like that. Let's go ski, you know. And Brazilians are not like that. Brazilians go to bed late and they wake up very late and they think that that's very restful, you know? And normally they wake up like worse than they would than but the night before, you know. So I think that's ⁓ that's just been a cool thing. Like getting ready and prepared for the busy like t seasons and times and weeks and enjoy. without feeling guilty, you know, without feeling weird about it. And when people call in those times, normally I would ask if it is very like urgent and most of the time or not. I say you can call me tomorrow. That's fine, you know. speaker-0: Yeah. speaker-2: So for me, I have my phone automatically go on Do Not Disturb at five o'clock every evening so that I can focus on my family. And if somebody really needs to get a hold of me, they call a couple of times and get through. You know, I can ask ⁓ Hey, can I call you tomorrow? 'Cause chances are it's not really the emergency that it feels like. But also Fridays is our family day. I'm off my phone. No texts, no email, nothing. And I confess that's really hard sometimes. You know, sometimes I'll I just feel it in my bones and I'm like I give my phone to my wife, I'm like, Hey, can you just check, make sure there's actually nothing urgent and and you know, help me deal with my craziness and she will. But that's been so life giving to me and and especially to hear her say, No, there's nothing and I'm like, Really? You know, and just calming down. ⁓ but I need those scheduled into my weeks because it won't happen if I don't schedule it. So those have been really helpful. speaker-0: Great. speaker-2: For me, those practices, even though I still struggle with them and I don't feel like I'm that great at resting, those have been the most life giving to me. speaker-3: Awesome. speaker-1: Yeah. For for me, the most life-giving thing has been Sabbath. I mean twenty-four days to stop work, to rest, to delight in God's grace, and to contemplate and worship God. So, you know, in the beginning of a church plant in my email, I even said, Sorry, I'm not going to reply. Mondays is my Sabbath. I'll get back to you on Tuesday. Like that was the tag. Training people, being intentional about it, not checking my phone, doing things that replenish you. So even that self-awareness to know. You know what? I really like working out extra, going on like long bike rides or watching movies or cutting my grass or whatever may be to replenish me. In fact, after Easter, yesterday, I knew it was a big Easter weekend and and busy. I read a whole book on my Sabbath day. It's just, hey, I'm gonna take a couple extra hours and worship God in this way. And not just sleeping, not just stopping work, but what actually fills my cup, how can I enjoy God's grace in my life and worship Him. ⁓ oftentimes I listen to many of my preaching friends who ⁓ that are all around the world on my Sabbath day and just get fed the word of God or do something that replenishes my soul. And so that practice, that alone, has kept me throughout the years being bi vocational, planning churches, pouring into leaders, doing all this different stuff, ⁓ a rhythm that God gave us. And ⁓ if you think about it, it's an extra fifty-two days of holiday a year that we get just being able to have nothing on our schedule and just enjoy God's grace. Beautiful thing. speaker-0: So good. I like the way you frame that. The 52 extra days off did you get a year that you're probably missing. So ⁓ certainly find something. And I think to kind of land all this, to land all this together and bring it all together, the reality is that you you can't really lead effectively if your own soul is running on empty. And while we can we can go stand on and and say, you know, we're climbing the mountain of faithfulness, you can't you can't climb the mountain of faithfulness if you're always exhausted. And healthy ministry, which I think many of us want to be a part of, that's the legacy we want to leave, flows from a healthy soul. So it's it's it's imperative, it's important for us to be able to do that. And so I would say if you're listening, you're watching, and you're realizing, man, there's some things that you know, but we talked about today. We talked about why rest is hard for ministry leaders. We talked about what it costs when we ignore it. There is a cost. And then we talked a little bit about maybe just some of the the ways to kind of build rhythms that sustain you. And it can look a little bit differently. For all of us. But the idea is to kind of stay, ⁓ you know, engaged in ministry and your calling and be faithful for the long haul. And so I would say a couple of action steps for those who are watching this would think about, you know, schedule rest before your week fills up. Schedule that time and block it off. What I typically do, and I've shared this before, even in this cohort that we're in, is I'll block off time and I'll put it for eight hours and I'll just call it something. So that when somebody says, hey, you can we meet it's like, no, I got something on my calendar. I just I personally like doing that because then I feel like I'm not lying to them. I'm telling them, hey, I got I I do have something on there. But maybe for you, for others, maybe it's setting one boundary that you just need to reinforce. ⁓ I think setting the phone down, putting that away, shutting it off, that's a great thing. Maybe somebody needs to do that. But I think for all of us, we can look for ways to be intentional. about finding that moment with God. Like Daniel said, he he read a book. And for others, we might just engage in the beauty of nature and just worship him, just read his word, whatever that is. But the idea is that in ministry, we don't have to carry everything because guess what? We weren't meant to. And so rest is imperative. It's important. So just appreciate you guys tuning in to this one and hopefully that this ministers to you and it keeps you in ministry for a long, long time. I want to thank our panel again for the Just the wisdom that you gave us today. And we just pray that the Lord will just bless your time as you kind of discover or rediscover rest in the natural flow of your ministry.