156- A Way to Vitalize (and Utilize) Our Youth- with Gary Malkus Jr.

[00:00:00] Welcome to Strength for Todays Pastor, Conversations with Current Senior Pasters and Leaders which will strengthen and help you in your pastoral ministry. And now, here's your host, Bill Holdridge of Point In Ministries. Welcome to podcast number 156 of Strength for Todays Pastor.

[00:00:28] Again I'm with Pastor Gary Malkus Jr., who pastors Calre Chapel in Victorville, California. And our subject for our discussion today is having to do with reaching the next generation. And specifically, how does this problem, which is an endemic? It's a pandemic spiritually.

[00:00:53] How does this problem of our young people that are in our churches? Once they graduate high school, a lot of times we don't see them again. And they go off to college, they go off to university or maybe they don't go off to school at all.

[00:01:07] But they're gone. And it seems like, wow, we're losing the next generation. But that's a what if? What if Lord you really want to work? That's the question that Gary has been asking and he has worked. So welcome again, Gary to the program.

[00:01:26] So glad to have you back with us. And I'm excited about you being able to discuss this with us. It's great to be here. So the discussion arose recently on the listserver and for those of our listeners that don't know what the listserver is.

[00:01:44] It's something for Calre Chapel, senior pastors only. It's an exclusive, you have to apply to be part of it. But there are hundreds of guys that are on the listserver.

[00:01:56] And so a lot of helpful information gets exchanged, but one of the guys asked a question about the youth group. And he identified when his youth group meets and he talked about different churches and how they do youth group related things on different times and dates.

[00:02:17] And then he asked the question to the whole listserver. What are your thoughts on the best way or time to have a youth service? And so the result of that became a pretty healthy discussion and Pastor Gary Malkis Jr.

[00:02:36] was one of those who contributed to the discussion early on. And so that's why I want to speak with him. And that's why we are speaking with him about this subject in this particular episode. So again, that's the backdrop.

[00:02:53] So Gary, when you responded to that initial question, you referred to a previous pastor who had responded. And without giving names, just talk about what he said and then you're response to it. He said that they made the decision to stop a high school on Sunday morning services.

[00:03:18] And when they graduate from junior high and go into high school that they become a part of the ministry and they serve in the ministry. And that is the same model that I have adopted.

[00:03:31] And I see that when the youth are engaged in part of the body life, serving as usher, serving for us as predominantly on the worship team and different aspects of the ministry that they get excited about serving the Lord. And so I've adopted the same model.

[00:03:54] We still have a youth group that meet, they just meet on our Wednesday night church service night and that's a time for the high schoolers to kind of get together amongst themselves. But on Sunday morning, they are incorporated into the church service.

[00:04:09] And they said under the Bible teaching, they learn how to listen to a Bible study for that long. But yeah, we've seen a lot of fruit from that.

[00:04:19] I'm glad you mentioned the Bible study component because if the church is not a Bible teaching church and they're not going through the Scriptures with their youth, they're not going to be able to do disciple them effectively.

[00:04:31] Because it's only the word of God and the Spirit of God working through the word that can hold a person for many years, right? So it just reminds me of one of our Calvary Chapel pastors.

[00:04:45] He was on staff at the mothership at Calvary Chapel, Costa Mesa for years and he had the high school group. And he taught them the word of God. He'd like you to said, he taught them how to listen to a Bible study.

[00:05:00] And so he would teach on Sunday morning, as I remember it being told, he would teach for an hour at least just going through the Scriptures with this group of high school students. And you know what happened? It's predictable.

[00:05:16] A lot of those guys went out and became pastors because the word of God was being used to really form them and shape them into a calling that the Lord had upon their lives.

[00:05:27] And one of the pastors on the list server, he said, one of the most important things we can do is to give the young people serious Bible teaching.

[00:05:36] Not like a friend of mine, you know, not sermonets for Christianats but but actual Bible teaching teaching them the word of God. Yes, see I found this out as a youth pastor when I came on staff with my dad.

[00:05:52] We picked up the same model that everybody was doing. 30 minutes of fun time, 30 minutes of kind of goofing off and at the end of it maybe a 15 minute sermonet and we were doing magic mountain trips.

[00:06:07] We were doing all the fun things that they say to keep the kids in the church. And I remember going to a South Bay conference and hearing Gell Irwin teach on others minded ministry.

[00:06:19] Because I just felt the youth ministry was really hollow. There wasn't any depth to it and I had a discussion with him at his table. And he just my heart exploded when I heard him talk about living for others.

[00:06:35] And we had that little youth group, it was 15 to 20 kids and my wife and I, we came home just fired up and we took all the cool relevant posters off the youth room walls.

[00:06:48] We took the magic mountain sign-ups away and we had decided that instead of goofing off all night with the youth kids, we determined we were going to do Christian things with them biblical things. Bible study worship prayer and that was it.

[00:07:03] And that was a step of faith because you know in our culture all that will never work. The kids won't come for that, you know. And we saw the complete opposite. And as we prayed about a theme verse, the Lord gave us Philippians 2-3-4

[00:07:18] Let nothing be done through selfish ambition or conceit. But in loneliness of mind that each esteem others better than himself, let each of you look out not only for his own interest, but also the interest of others.

[00:07:30] And you see youth ministry today is designed for the kids to please them to make it all about them to make it exciting and fun. And we reversed that. We wanted to get the kids to be looking at others, to serve others.

[00:07:43] And it unlocked something in them bill and it was so exciting to watch. We named the youth group, others youth group. Oh, I love her. That was the whole theme.

[00:07:54] Yeah, Gell Rowan, you know, he loaded us up with his bumper stickers and we made t-shirts and it just became a thing. And the kids got excited.

[00:08:04] And we, instead of doing magic mountain trips even the youth camps, the summer youth camps up on the mountain, you know, where they go up there, to turn a junk food and goof off, we got rid of that.

[00:08:15] And instead, we started taking the kids down to Mexico for a week to serve the orphans and the churches down there that we support. And we called it others week and the group grew.

[00:08:28] I mean, there was we were in the old sanctuary there in Apple Valley and there were weeks that there was only sitting room on the ground in the youth room.

[00:08:38] And it was a mix of church kids, street kids, because the church kids were praying that God would bring in these outsiders and he did. There's just this combingling of church kids and foster kids and kids who struggled with addiction and it was an exciting time.

[00:08:59] Out of that youth group though, today looking back, you know, sometimes hindsight you can see a little more clearly, but there was four worship leaders that came out of it. Multiple pastors, most of my church leaders today were out of that youth group.

[00:09:18] That others youth group, they came over to Victorville with me, they're serving the Lord today. And I have one quick story. I want to tell you about a young man he was new to the church. He was not church for all years.

[00:09:32] One of the street kids and one of the first events that I had planned for the youth group was to go help this widow out in our church with yard work. Not a widow, a single mother.

[00:09:44] And we all showed up 20 of us strong to do her yard work and he came up to me at the beginning of the day and he's like, let me get to straight. We're going to do all this work and we're not going to get paid for it.

[00:09:57] And I told him, Corbaine that was his name. I said at the end of the day, I want you to tell me how you feel about what we have done here today. And we had a blast serving, we were goofing off.

[00:10:09] And I got pizza for the kids and we got all the work done at the end of the day and that single mother came out. And she seen her yard and she just started weeping because it was something that she never thought would get done.

[00:10:23] And Corbaine seen her tears. He felt the joy of what it was to serve others and he came up to me afterwards. And he says, this is the best day of my life. Wow.

[00:10:33] And something unlocked in him, that secret of serving others that Jesus taught about time and time again in his ministry. That's the secret of a contented life and Christianity is to serve others. It's not about us.

[00:10:49] And I'm telling you this unlocked a revival in these kids as they learned that church was not about them about serving others. And a lot of credit goes to my dad as the senior pastor because he allowed me to incorporate the youth into the church.

[00:11:05] And he gave us what was called a fifth Sunday every time there was a fifth Sunday in the month. The youth would run the whole service and from the worship to the ushering to all of it. And that was really exciting.

[00:11:19] So when I got to Victorville, I took that model and just made it to where they were incorporated every week. And they, they're just the part of the church. And they have that excitement. My youth pastor was from that youth group.

[00:11:33] So he continues in that same legacy of using the youth. I'm so again, I'm thinking about the great commission. So you know, Jesus said, teach them to observe all things that I have commanded you. Low on the wood you always even to the end of the age.

[00:11:50] So that's not talking about just teaching them the precept or teaching them the concept, but teaching them actually to observe it. Teaching them to do it. Yes. And so how did Jesus work with his disciples? He served them. They were others to him. And he treated them.

[00:12:11] He ended up washing their feet as well as dying on the cross for all of our sins of course. I mean, it was tangible and back to the Philippians two passage that you just quoted. Paul said, let this mind be in you which was also in Christ Jesus.

[00:12:26] Yes. And I'm as really powerful the others concept of youth ministries. So how, how has this affected the adult congregation? I can imagine now that the youth are around.

[00:12:40] So the natural generational barriers that seem to exist in our culture were the older people are very insecure about interface and with the younger people because they don't know if they want to listen to them. And they don't know them.

[00:12:54] And the younger people are dismissing the older generation. They're saying, well, they're not relevant. They're too old. They're, you know, I don't want to, they just don't know anything. You know, all these kinds of typical attitudes. How has that affected the church environment?

[00:13:09] Because I can imagine things have really radically different than the cultural norm. Yeah. So we just had a young lady joined the worship team. Her name is Anna. She's out of the youth group and Pastor Josh was my worship leader.

[00:13:24] Told me, she's one of the most gifted vocalists that we have in the church. But she was so introverted, so shy that she would get up to the mic. And she would kind of almost mouth it. Bubble gum, bubble gum, she couldn't do it.

[00:13:37] And I was getting a lot of flack from the people. Why do we have her up there? She's not able to do it.

[00:13:43] And I just told them, I said, you watch what God does in this young lady and you watch her progress as her gifts increase and keep showing her grace. And today, she is one of the most gifted vocalists we have up there.

[00:13:58] But I think the body, they kind of follow your example. If you buy into the complaints, if you fall into the pressure and you take on that negative attitude it will spread.

[00:14:08] But if you just remain positive, pointing them to the what if in the right direction they follow your lead. And I'll tell you, in our outreach is our homeless outreach is our outreach is to the community, the Halloween outreach, all of it.

[00:14:22] The two most active ministries in those outreach are the youth and the widows ministry. The widows ministry is dynamic, you know they're completely different generation. But those two ministries, they work together in all of these outreach is wonderfully.

[00:14:38] And I can't say that I know how they do it or there's this system of getting them to work together. I think it's just something that's happened naturally and it's exciting to see. But I think the body follows the tempo of the pastor.

[00:14:53] It's a mindset is what you're saying. It's a mindset and so you mentioned the what if get into the positive what if. So if somebody didn't listen to podcasts on 155, maybe they don't know what you're talking about.

[00:15:07] So explain that concept of the what ifs that you've learned over the years and how to see the youth that way. Yes, I'm naturally a negative person.

[00:15:16] So if I see certain circumstances or opposition or things that I consider impossible, I'll be completely negative and I could entertain negative voices. Oh, we'll never make it. We'll never be able to do it. That person will never overcome.

[00:15:31] And I've learned now to what if in the other direction, well, what if God is and it would have God has called them to it. What if God is working in their life? Let's just wait and see kind of mindset and God shows us what God is doing.

[00:15:45] God shows up 100% of the time. You know, in spite of even my own doubts is I'm encouraging others to do it. And so that's kind of the model that we have taken in this season of ministries. Just let's what if in the right direction.

[00:16:03] So you're talking in a forest. Yeah, flipping in 48 right things that are lovely and pure and true in those things meditate on these things. Yes. So back to the young woman who's now just amazing vocalists serving on your team.

[00:16:16] She served on your team before she was exhibiting this anointing of the Lord upon her, right? But you saw something. You knew that anatomically and you know with the voice that God had given her that there was the potential there.

[00:16:35] And there was something in the what if that you had toward her that that compelled you to stick with it. Yes. And then the Holy Spirit used that opportunity and began to show her his power and she now has confidence.

[00:16:51] Yeah, and my encouragement to her week after week is Anna, you got to stop looking at the people out there. Stop worrying about them and you got to sing to the Lord.

[00:17:01] And I remember it was a Wednesday night. It just unlocked in her and she started singing and worshiping to the Lord. And it was beautiful bill. And even the people in the body because they had seen her progress over the last few months and being fearful up there.

[00:17:18] I mean, people were emotional over watching this young lady grow. And now for our women's ministry, she is the worship leader for our women's ministry. Every Bible study, she's in their leading worship for them and it's incredible. That is incredible.

[00:17:33] So what that tells me is that I mean this is an example of something that I think can be really helpful. And what I'm looking at is that you were an observer. You saw her. You got to see as you observed her, some qualities in her.

[00:17:51] And you took a chance and you put her up front, right? And you're you're you whoever was made that decision. So I see that as a huge component of all this.

[00:18:03] I mean we who are of the next generation or the previous generation, we need to observe our youth and look for what God has placed in them.

[00:18:14] And you know what might be a small little Amber in a log of pile of logs needs to be found into flame to become a burning fire.

[00:18:26] And we can do that if we invest in them and believe what God has deposited in them and allow that to happen. That's what I see, that's what I'm hearing you say. Yeah there's a lot of negativity toward the youth, you know, the work ethic.

[00:18:41] I mean people pick them apart but you have to you have to give them something to have a passion for the world is going to do that for them. The world is going to make them passion about all their causes.

[00:18:52] You have to get them excited about serving the Lord, seeing the Lord and when that passion unlocks in them they're they are formidable and our outreach is they're powerful. They're out there sharing their faith, they're they're doing the things that bring glory to God.

[00:19:07] And sometimes more so than the generations that complain about them but I know that you you even said Chuck and those early guys they gave you guys chances. They took chances on you and I sometimes feel that the model has shifted to more professionalism.

[00:19:23] And we want to look a certain way on the stage, we want to have this presentation. But that wasn't the model Chuck had in the beginning. I know my pastor Pastor Ray and my dad.

[00:19:34] My dad not too long ago sent me the very first teaching I did in Apple Valley. And it's so embarrassing to listen to you is absolutely terrible.

[00:19:43] And if my dad had a common sense he would never let me teach again but he put me up there again and again and again and then I developed a Bible teaching skill, you know.

[00:19:55] But they took chances on me and and I think that's the model that Chuck gave the whole movement that some have forgotten. Yeah, I agree. I remember you know I began pastoring in Monterey, California and we called ourselves Calvary Chapel of the Monterey Peninsula.

[00:20:17] And then I got a notification that there was a pastor's conference up in Twin Peaks. I'd never been to a pastor's concert before and I was honored that I was invited.

[00:20:27] We were just in the beginning stages. I went up there and they were distributing a magazine called The Last Times magazine, which was paper copy. It was like newsprint copy, small little thing and it had in it a listing of the Calvary Chapples.

[00:20:44] And there weren't very many of them at that point. So it was a small listing and I looked through it, you know just interested and low on behold.

[00:20:54] I saw Calvary Chapel of the Monterey Peninsula listed in The Last Times magazine as a Calvary Chapel Church and my name was listed as the pastor.

[00:21:06] Nobody interviewed me, nobody there was no you know vetting process at all not that there shouldn't be some but it was just very organic. And I don't even know how Chuck got that memo in his head that said you know you should include him in the magazine.

[00:21:25] I don't know but it happened and it was very relational, very organic, very spirit-led. And that was everything to me, you know to be given that opportunity I was recognized by someone that I respected greatly that had contributed to my conversion to Christianity to Jesus.

[00:21:47] And was my Bible with teaching me the Word of God and had for five years at that point. For him to say you know he's one of us, he's a pastor along with all of us on this page. It was amazing.

[00:22:03] And you know I you know another story of my own but going back to I was 13 years old, I was a baseball player, anifable ball player later but baseball player. And a pretty non-descript career as a baseball player through Little League, first year, pony league.

[00:22:21] We got a new coach in between seasons, my 13 and 14 year old year, his name was Frank Pearson he had been a varsity high school baseball coach.

[00:22:30] He took over our team. And after a few practices he pulled me aside and he said Bill you're going to be my team captain, I'm going to run the team through your leadership.

[00:22:40] This is how I want you to do it. And he gave me a chance nobody had ever seen that before nobody recognized me in that way. It was like putting gasoline on a fire and the fire I didn't even know was in my heart.

[00:22:55] And just like you did with Cobain, the young man who said well we're going to do this. We're going to serve this single mother and do all this yard work and we're not even going to get paid for it.

[00:23:05] And you wisely said to him tell me how you feel at the end of the day let's just let's just do this and see and you knew what would happen.

[00:23:16] Yeah. Well, yeah. I mean we all we all know when we serve others it it unlocks something in our heart.

[00:23:24] You know and it's probably the peak of this human experience is when you lay down your life and you serve the Lord and others and Jesus gave us that clear instruction.

[00:23:35] And we forget it a lot. We think a lot of times that religious deeds and religious service are going to do it, but it's really in the serving others when when they're not even expecting it or sometimes even deserving

[00:23:48] I know for my wife and I that greatest joys that we have in this life have been through the adoption process and adopting these two to young boys and serving others in that aspect is is unlocks

[00:24:03] and enjoy at a level I never even knew imaginable in this human experience. I mean, Gailor when that what did he call to his one string of talking.

[00:24:12] One string guitar yeah, that's right. Yeah. That was his message every time I heard him preach his serve others others, you know, and that had a huge impact on that.

[00:24:22] That's a huge story right there. I'm glad you're mentioning Gailor when, you know he's yeah, you know he's he's retired from his ministry. He doesn't travel anymore. He's living in a in a place in San Ana California quiet kind of a life, but he shows up at Gary Chapples and and just as one of the congregants and whatever but his legacy and what he taught in the lead in the Jesus style and his other books and what he modeled

[00:24:51] and that one word mantra others. I mean it's gigantic isn't it? I just want to give a shout out to what the Lord has done through Gailor when right now.

[00:25:00] Oh, I love him. Yeah, I listen to that man since I was a little boy, Kavri Chapples feeling, you know Larry, Pastor Larry would have them there and then my dad had him a lot there in Apple Valley. We had him. I think we were the last church he spoke at Kavri Chapples Victorville before he hung up his hand and so.

[00:25:20] And he loved kids and he loved kids and he believed in young people and so there you go. So one of the other pastors on that listservor discussion made a comedy said, the biggest problem I see now is not that the young people don't feel like

[00:25:36] a part of the church and they grow up but they often get involved in romantic relationships with unbelievers and that invariably leads them away from church.

[00:25:50] But that's again a discipleship issue. So here we have it. I mean, in the absence of something to fill the real void that's in our hearts and the absence of being Jesus centered and other centered.

[00:26:05] What are any what is any person going to do adult or young person they're going to find something to fill the void that and a lot of times they're going to use something unhealthy to try to fill that void. And in this case.

[00:26:20] Exactly. You're you're helping the young people understand that others and serving others and serving Jesus by serving others is important. How have you seen that work out and better choices that are making in relationships?

[00:26:38] Not to say that we have not seen what he discussed. I mean, I think that's one of Satan's greatest tactics to derail a youth is to get them unequally yoped. But I think you're right. It's you point them in the right direction.

[00:26:54] Something unlocks an am a passion for serving the Lord living right for the Lord wanting to please the Lord. And I know many young ladies in our church right now who are just waiting on that right guy.

[00:27:08] They're not jumping the gun because they do love the Lord more and that's where it comes down to is just their walk with the Lord if they love Jesus. They're going to obey his commands.

[00:27:19] I have a kind of a different look at marriage than most people. I know like a lot of people try to discourage relationships and the younger generation and stuff.

[00:27:33] But I've always tried to teach the young kids that a godly marriage is good. You know the the purity conferences and all that kind of use like fear tactics.

[00:27:42] So you know on a half sex because all these terrible things are going to happen. I had a different approach in the youth group. I would tell them that sex is wonderful.

[00:27:51] And it's meant for a godly marriage. The marriage bed is undefiled and I would talk in terms like that so they had something to look forward to. It wasn't abstained because it's bad.

[00:28:03] And your body parts are going to fall off it's because there's something wonderful waiting for you in God's plan. And that actually seemed to bear a lot of fruit. You know, I've I can't even count how many marriages from those youth groups that that I've done pass.

[00:28:21] I want to say 30 because they've waited and they looked forward to their marriage. And I know that I sat with the many young couples who were afraid of their wedding night.

[00:28:34] Because of the damage the church had done in regards of of trend to use fear tactics to keep them out of a relationship and doing it the wrong way instead of teaching the positive how wonderful a godly relationship is to be patient to wait.

[00:28:50] It's all worth it and the end. Not sure if that's where you were going to have. I'm so glad you mentioned that because I'm right with you there. I mean, it is the whole purity movement that was in the 80s and the 90s and into the 2000s.

[00:29:08] It was largely based on fear and I think it's a thing of the past. I hope it is the thing of the past.

[00:29:15] I mean, we men growing up, we didn't learn how to honor young women. We didn't learn how to how to value them as people because that fear message in some ways could have driven us in the wrong direction all by itself.

[00:29:37] And so what that does is it makes a young woman in the eyes of a young man an object.

[00:29:45] But that's the woman is not an object. She's a person. She's got a heart as souls. She's got emotions. She's got a brain. She's got a reason for her existence and we men needed to learn when we were younger.

[00:30:00] How do you the opposite sex and to honor them? But it did the opposite. This whole fear thing I think in some cases.

[00:30:09] Yeah, yeah, you're right. So the temptation is to use fear and even the unequaly yoke relationships but it's more just teaching the positive. This is what the word tells you. If you're patient, if you wait,

[00:30:24] I find that they are willing to wait for the most for more so the girls than the young men. You know, once those young men, their hormones are unlocked.

[00:30:37] Well, be about the father's business. Even Jesus at 12 years old was very aware that he needed to be about his father's business. So it can happen at 12 years old it can happen.

[00:30:49] Absolutely. So if that's what the youth are being discipled into, then there's a chance it's going to stay with them. It's not bullet proof. I mean everybody makes their own choices. Jesus lost some disciples.

[00:31:02] Not because of any fault on his part but just because of the way things work with human nature. Yeah, I could tell you my worship pastor, Josh. He, he meant his high schools sweetheart. They were about 15 years old.

[00:31:18] And they turned 18 and they were talking about marriage. And so we started pre-marriage counseling at that young of an age, but he, because he had lived a pure life, he was not in any hurry.

[00:31:33] And I remember in his pre-marriage counseling, like Josh, there's some things in marriage that you're really going to enjoy as a young man. But that had not been unlocked in him yet. He had no idea. And he actually had a two year engagement with me telling him,

[00:31:50] Dude, you're ready to get married. You know, you're missing out on a lot. You know, you both have waited. You're both pure. And I remember after they got married he came to me and he's like, you know what? I have no idea why I waited so long.

[00:32:05] And he's like, you were right. You know, so there are some positives in a lot of those stories in the discipleship, apart teaching the biblical marriage. Josh is definitely one of them. That's a good story. But he had the opposite effect.

[00:32:21] You had talked before about your experience and this was in the last episode. You had talked about your experience intellectually when as part of your high school, you know, education. They started introducing concepts of evolution.

[00:32:39] And you hadn't been exposed to that before. Now, it was said and you had an adult figure in your life that is saying that this is the way it goes. This is the truth.

[00:32:50] You know, I love Frank Peretti once said in a lecture I heard him give. You know, so what we're actually telling our youth is we're saying that you come from the goo. And then you become part of the goo and then it's to you.

[00:33:05] And so then, you know, having taught them that in their science class, then the very next class that they might go to after the bell rings is a class on self esteem.

[00:33:16] What's the basis of self esteem? Of a proper self esteem if we come from the goo and the zoo, and now it's to you. And so you rebelled against that. So again, it's like there's a void with that type of indoctrination. There's a void.

[00:33:35] So what does what does teaching the Bible and what does giving truth to the next generation? How does that inoculate them against these horribly false and damaging philosophies? Okay. I have a strong, strong stance on this. I think often of the possible at the area I'll be guess.

[00:34:00] You probably gave one of the most intellectual sermons in his ministry. They're an Athens. And but you see there, there wasn't very much fruit there in Athens from an intellectual debate in trying to win people in that.

[00:34:14] There's never a church mention in Athens. The next stop is Corinth. And we see there in Corinth. There is a demonstration that Paul potentially gives. I know I heard Chuck Smith. He's the one who kind of put this in my mind.

[00:34:30] But there's his man's sauce thinies who comes against the apostle Paul and sauce thinies ends up getting beat up. You go to first Corinthians at the very beginning of that letter and he calls sauce thinies our brother.

[00:34:43] And he says that he came to Corinth with a demonstration of spirit, you know, and loneliness of mine. And he was weak in many ways. And he didn't come articulate like he was there in Athens trying to win through intellectual debate.

[00:34:58] But we see that there was potentially with this man's sauce thinies and act of love that Paul extended to him. An act of grace and forgiveness where he's now considered a brother. He was once an enemy, now a brother.

[00:35:11] And I think for the youth and this is my experience I served in youth ministry for seven years plus. It wasn't that they were being argued out of the church. It was that the representation of many of their parents or the leadership in the church.

[00:35:29] It disappointed them. What was being taught? They would see their parents maybe raising their hands worshiping on Sunday morning. They would come home and their parents would live like he thins in the home, you know, there was this.

[00:35:43] It didn't line up to them. It was fake. I know for me the reason I grabbed onto the evolutionary theory at that same time there was an elder in our church who had took me under his wing and he was pouring into me.

[00:35:57] He ended up at that time being exposed. He was cheating on his wife. He was committing adultery. And I think that was one of the catalysts that kind of derailed me disillusioned me to Christianity.

[00:36:08] This man who preached at me so hard was pouring into me. It wasn't living it out in his life and it caused me to gravitate to other things.

[00:36:16] Never in my father. I believed my dad, you know what he believed. He was super sincere but there were others that I loved dearly that it just was.

[00:36:26] It wasn't real, you know. If it was real what they were saying they would be living it out in their life and I know that for me and youth ministry.

[00:36:36] The hypocrisy and the church turn more kids away than a teacher in their school or a post on Facebook. It was the misrepresentation of someone in the church that kind of blew it for them. That caused them to then gravitate toward these other things.

[00:36:53] And I know my example to you there in Corinth. Paul didn't use apologetics or anything. He stayed there for two years and year and a half and he just ministered to them in a different mindset.

[00:37:09] And it was maybe I know that he seemed to be broken in Corinth. Maybe, you know, he was beaten up all the way down through Greece and opposition everywhere he went.

[00:37:22] I know that it had to be pretty intense because the Lord himself spoke to him in a night vision saying, do not be afraid. But speak and do not keep silent.

[00:37:30] Brian with you. No one will attack you or hurt you for many people in this life. And I think that whatever Paul was going through this crisis of the failure of his intellectual argument there and Athens and all of this.

[00:37:43] Nothing short of Jesus Christ himself showing up to speak to Paul would have encouraged him to continue in the ministry. I think he was super defeated at that point and we see a change in his model.

[00:37:54] It is more of a demonstration of ministry versus and I know apologetics is super important for our Christian faith to teach kids. Why we believe what we believe but that's a defense that we use for our personal faith.

[00:38:11] Many times we see that apologetics is uses a weapon to argue with people and to defeat people. I think when we get to heaven, God's not going to be like, hey good job winning that argument.

[00:38:24] He's more concerned about us winning the souls of people and not the debates. And a lot of the apologetic approach that I seen as I was taking the kids to apologetic seminars.

[00:38:36] It was teaching them how to fight with other people, you know how to argue with other people instead of reaching them. Yeah such a good point. That was the failure.

[00:38:46] Such a good point. The word of God. Yeah back to Paul. I mean in that sermon on Mars Hill he did mention the resurrection from the dead as part of this message.

[00:38:59] There was nothing in the message recorded in Acts 17 about the cross. And it is interesting that when he wrote to the Corinthians and first Corinthians two,

[00:39:09] He said I determine not to know anything among you except Jesus Christ and him crucifies. He preached the cross and Corinth even though they something changed. Even though they were, and so he didn't rely upon intellectual argumentation. He didn't rely upon speaking eloquence.

[00:39:29] He related upon the simplicity of the gospel message Jesus crucified for us and that's been. And that Corinth is a Greece and culture to where intellect was important and the way you presented a speech was important. And it was all but he didn't use any of them.

[00:39:45] Right. Reminds me I once had a conversation along conversation with a chaplain at Harvard University. And she told the story about Billy Graham coming to Harvard twice to speak to the students the first time. His message was more apologetically oriented and it wasn't that much fruit from it.

[00:40:09] And so when he came the second time he did some advanced work and they encouraged him just do what you do in the Crusades. You know, preach it like you preach it there, you know.

[00:40:22] And it was much more fruitful. And I think that you know, that's what we pastors need to do of course but that's what you're saying youth pastors need to do as well is give them the given the whole council of God teach them to observe.

[00:40:37] You know, given the council of God. I'm going to have a wrap up this episode here but one of the other comments and I want you to comment on this. This was to me very poignant.

[00:40:51] One of the pastors talked about arguing for really getting the youth involved in the flow of the church, the life of the church, treat them as young adults, you know, I mean bar mitzvahs or 13 and Jewish culture right.

[00:41:05] You become a man one day you're a boy the next day you're a man. So he says removing teens from adults is a spiritual recipe for disaster. Not having them serve is entitlement and babying. You can get your red cross babysitting license when you're 12.

[00:41:24] You can get your red cross life guards certification when you're 15. You can drive when you're 16. You can join the Navy and be at the nuclear weapons desk when you're 17. But you can't come into the church sanctuary until you're 18 in above. Yeah. Incredible statement.

[00:41:45] Yeah, I have nothing further to say on that but I wholeheartedly agree. We need to get them involved and the Lord can use them powerfully. I've seen it. I've seen it in two different ministries. So what is? What if what? What if God is in this?

[00:42:04] What if God wants to use this generation for big things? That's my hope. My prayer. I believe that we are going to see revival here in these last days and it's going to be through that generation. We have to get them excited about Jesus. All right, amen, Gary.

[00:42:19] Amen. Let's pray for that now. Why don't you lead us prayer? Lord, my heart is filled with excitement. Lord, considering these things, Lord, you're a big God. And Lord, I think you want to move in a big way and a new way, Lord.

[00:42:35] We've seen it in times past, Lord, when our culture is in a desperate place, Lord, that you begin to move in a counter-cultural Lord. And we ask for that again. We ask for revival, Lord. We know that you are coming soon for your bride, the church, Lord.

[00:42:52] We pray, Lord, that we would be busy about your business, Lord, that we would gather as many as we can into the kingdom of God, Lord before you come. We thank you for your faithfulness to our ministries, to our lives and Jesus may my pray. Amen.

[00:43:05] Gary, thanks so much for sharing your heart on these things. This is wonderful and I'm just really, really grateful for this conversation. Thanks so much. Thank you. God bless. So this is a podcast that is sponsored by Poem in Ministries and Poem in Ministries

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[00:43:58] Until the next episode, God bless you and may He strengthen you in your service for him and in your service to others in Jesus name. Strength for today's pastor is sponsored by Poem in Ministries. You can find us at pointmenindustries.com that spelled POI M-E-N Ministries.com.

[00:44:19] If something in today's program prompts a question or comment, or if you have a topic idea for a future episode, just shoot us an email at strongerpastorsatgmail.com. That's strongerpastorsatgmail.com. May the Lord bless you as you serve him his pastors and his church.