Community, Encouragement, & the Freedom to Follow God: Insights from Rafael Manzanares

[00:00:00] Europe is a slower place, but it nevertheless, it is a place where churches are growing. God is doing a work. And I think what I would love to see happen is for healthy churches to develop,

[00:00:15] where there's balance, where there's love, where there's unity, where there's diversity, where there's freedom, and continue to cultivate that kind of environment. Welcome to the CGN Mission and Methods Podcast, season 4. My name is Nick Katie, I'm the pastor of Whitefield's Community Church in Longmont, Colorado,

[00:00:34] and I will be your host this season. The goal and vision of this podcast is that it would be a forum for communication about Calvary Global Network. We want to share with you some of the stories about what God is doing.

[00:00:47] We want to talk about some of the initiatives we're involved in spearheading, and we want to answer the questions you might have about who we are as a network. On the episodes in this season, I'm joined by Pastor Brian Broderson,

[00:00:59] the founder and president of CGN and the pastor of Calvary Chapel in Costa Mesa, California. For season 4 of the podcast, Brian and I will be interviewing the members of the CGN Executive team,

[00:01:10] so you can get to know their stories, hear about their ministries, and the roles they play in CGN, and find out what they're excited about for the future. In this episode, Pastor Brian and I speak with Rafael Monsonaris.

[00:01:23] Rafael is the pastor of Santa Ponson Community Church, which is in Spain on the island of Myorca. Rafael shares his story of growing up in Spain and in the United States, and how God led him back to Europe. We also talk about his time in London,

[00:01:37] and the work that God is continuing to do through Calvary Chapel Church as across Western Europe, and why that is such a unique and strategic place for the mission of God in the world. Here's the episode.

[00:01:50] Welcome to the CGN mission and methods podcast. This is Nick Katie, and I'm joined today by Pastor Brian Broderson. Yep, thanks Nick. Great to be here. We're joined today by Rafael Monsonaris. Hey, Ralph. Hello. Nice to be here.

[00:02:04] Well, cool. So we're currently recording this in Austria at the castle, which Calvary Chapel has owned for many years, decades. And we're in the midst of our European pastors and leaders conference, which takes place every winter,

[00:02:19] and it's been an encouraging week. But one of the cool things is that Rafael recently joined the executive team, and you are our first European member of the team. So that's exciting. I'm amazing. Very exciting.

[00:02:33] And I think it's kind of about time in a way, because Calvary Chapel has had a presence in Europe for decades now, and a pretty strong one. And so I'm really glad for our listeners to get to know you and find out more about your ministry.

[00:02:46] So, Ralph, if you would please just tell us who you are, where you serve, and a little bit of the journey that God has led you on up until this point in your life.

[00:02:54] Great. So yeah, I was born in my European Spain, and then through different circumstances at the age of 13, I moved over to the United States, and there I went to junior high in high school,

[00:03:07] and at the age of 19 joined the US Army, and brought me back to Europe to Germany. And then after a couple years I became a Christian, and I landed, believe it or not, right on these grounds as a brand new Christian.

[00:03:26] And I remember just, I had never read a book to lobby a Christian. And so my teachers here at the castle, they were plumbers that served as missionaries and war zones. And there were people that were passionate about the Bible. They were yielded to the Bible,

[00:03:45] and they were able to communicate the Bible effectively and very simply. And that was a very transformative time in my life. I mean, my whole life changed right in the place where we're sitting. How did you get here?

[00:04:00] Well, I was at the time I was in North Carolina with Dave Shirley, and he actually, I became a Christian, and I ran into Dave Shirley two days later, and he had just been here.

[00:04:14] And he said, and Pastor Chuck had said, is there any pastors you please consider Spain? And Dave said, I'm the only pastor here. So on his way home, he was praying and says, Lord, would you bring me somebody from Spain?

[00:04:31] And so I just stepped right into this office, and he's like, I've been praying to me somebody from Spain, and he says, you've got to go to the castle in Austria. How did you step into his office? How did you even know him?

[00:04:46] Oh, my goodness. I was in Campbell University where the guy from JD career. Yeah, was the semester before, so I was with all his disciples, you know? And we were putting up leaf postures for third day because they were coming to the university.

[00:05:01] So we went all around from Campbell University down to Raleigh and then to Fayville, putting up posters and all the churches, and this girl knew Dave. And she's like, look, I want you to meet Dave, and I just stepped right into that office.

[00:05:14] That's incredible. So you weren't going to church there? No, I wasn't going to church there. After that, I listened, I began to take tapes with me because set tapes and started listening to Romans with Dave and things like that. Yeah.

[00:05:28] And then after that, I came to Europe and he told me, please go to the castle. And I rolled in here and maybe it was June and it was amazing because there was all the missions conference,

[00:05:41] all the church conferences. So I pretty much got to meet many pastors from the US and many of the pastors in Europe because this was the hub. What year was it? Let me think. It was the 98. Maybe 98? Yeah, yeah.

[00:05:58] Tell us more stories because I know some points on your story like you were with Brian in London. So I was here and I had some options to go either to the United States or to go serve with the Billy Graham Foundation in Spain and Madrid.

[00:06:14] And so I asked Brian for advice and I said, Brian, what do you think? Should I go to California and get trained or should I go to Madrid? And he says, neither you should come to London.

[00:06:27] And so, but you know what? It's not even that I just said, okay, I wasn't looking for a third option, but honestly, I just sensed the Lord really pulling me towards London and I really felt called to missions

[00:06:43] and I really wanted to possibly plant the church and I thought the best way to learn how to plan the church and how to be part of a church is to be part of a church plant.

[00:06:53] And I felt like that was going on in London and I wanted to be a part of it. Yeah, and there in London was incredible. I mean, the team there was such diversity. There was such vision.

[00:07:05] There it was simple and yet fruitful and it was, there was a lot of people to learn from and there was very exciting work I was doing. Brian, maybe you could just share a moment about your journey to London.

[00:07:19] I mean, I think that that's that significant in itself. Sure. Yeah, and of course, as we've already said, you know, we're sitting in Europe. So having those conversations so. So in the late 90s, the Lord kind of launched me into, into ministry here in Europe.

[00:07:38] And it was right, you know, basically right at the time of the fall of the Berlin Wall and the Soviet Union and with the late 80s rather. Yeah, it was the late 80s but you know, the pathway in was 1990.

[00:07:52] So we were here in the late 80s, but then we launched into Europe, Eastern Europe specifically in 1990. And so I had been, you know, involved over in this part of the world. We had done some church planting in Russia and Ukraine in Hungary and Yugoslavia.

[00:08:16] And then I began to be stirred for the UK. And my thinking was really that I would just do what I had done in some of these other places. You know, where we had gone in kind of plowed the ground with an evangelistic team.

[00:08:35] Let some people to Jesus set up a new, you know, church plant and then support somebody to lead that. And that was my intention as I was sensing we were to do something in London.

[00:08:46] Well, to make a long story short, I ended up being the one that actually went, you know, so we sent the team. We did all of the things I said.

[00:08:54] And as I was looking for that key person who would now lead the church that we had just planted the Lord really made it clear that I was to leave the church that I was pasted in the Southern California and move to London. And so that was 1996.

[00:09:10] And so then, you know, it was too much longer after that that rough and I met here. And there's a path right out the door and we were walking along having a conversation.

[00:09:21] And I think that's maybe where I said to you that you ought to come to London. And you know, he had the options I key mentioned of going to California getting some training and so forth. And I thought why not come to London.

[00:09:36] You, everything that you want to get, you can get there and you can get it like he said in a real time experience, you know, not theoretical. You're going to come and live in the midst of a church plant. Yeah. And that's what he did.

[00:09:52] And it was amazing. I mean, we just had, I think he would agree and we could bring, pull some other people into the room. This was the season that was just so it was fruitful. It was powerful. It was really enjoyable.

[00:10:07] It was fun fun season in all of our lives at this difficult days. And it had some challenges. Love Gord, along with it. Yes. But I mean, it was amazing.

[00:10:16] At one point, I mean, one of the things we would do is on Sundays, we would go to do an outreach in Lester Square and we pulled this truck, just this wagon over with all the sound equipment, do outreach.

[00:10:29] Then during the week, I would drive with Brian, we would drive four and a half hours to will come to that and we're now creation fest.

[00:10:36] Well, we were creation fest start and then moved over, but we would drive four and a half hours each way to do a Bible study and come back, you know. And I mean, there's even more than that.

[00:10:47] I mean, Brian, which is was the Bible study machine. He was start one and then turn it over to somebody else immediately. And then we would drive five or six or six times a day. But the Bible studies were starting all over London.

[00:10:59] It was really, really incredible to experience and watch the apartment. Wow. So you met your wife there? Yes. I did. Yeah, I learned that was studying part-time. I know, sorry, starting full-time getting a master's and I was working at the church and we both worked part-time and pizza.

[00:11:14] Yeah. And Loretta had come to London to study from Italy from Rome. She was she was a Muslim. She had converted to Islam at a certain point. Well, she was considering it, but she wasn't. Yeah, she wasn't like fully embraced it, but she. Yeah. Yeah.

[00:11:34] Wow. And so tell us then how what was the path from London to my work? So, Maria, that Dave Shirley received an email back in the day where emails were brand new and asking for a pastor from a Yurka.

[00:11:50] And you got to think, I mean, he knew somebody from my Yurka. You know? And immediately he let me know about it and he put me in touch with the pastor of my Yurka. And I was asked to take over the church and I turned it down.

[00:12:04] But then, Loretta and I went to visit to see my grandmother who had raised me. And when I saw her so frail, there was something that happened in my heart.

[00:12:14] I just need to be here. But I felt I can't be married a year and then say to my wife, Okay, now we're going to move to a town of 5,000 people. And we're going to take care of my grandmother. And so that was a bit of a challenge.

[00:12:32] But then Loretta said to me, I could see myself living here. And that's where I thought maybe the Lord is in this place. And I'm just not aware of it. And so I began to pray about it and Loretta began to pray about it.

[00:12:47] And we decided to move through a verse that we read in first Samuel 14, where Jonathan said to his or her, let's go over to the other side. It may be the DeLoral workforce. And that may be demonstrated to me that it's not always a sure thing.

[00:13:11] That sometimes you just need to take a risk and see if it is, and if it isn't, and if it isn't you come back, and if it is, you're right in the middle of what God is doing.

[00:13:20] So, Loretta and I went to a conference and after in York, England, and I said after the conference, Loretta, if you could sum up the conference in one word, what would it be? No context. And she said, go. And that's exactly the word that's in my mind.

[00:13:41] So we ventured out to move to my Yurika and I was September 11th of 2001. We landed a couple hours before the attack in New York. So you've been pastoring the church there? So again, we moved there separate from the church that we were asked to ask her.

[00:14:04] And then my friends said to me, can you please take care of this one man who was going through a big depression? And I said, sure, and the only people that helped this man were my friends, and a pastor on the other side of the island.

[00:14:19] And there's a million people on the island. And as soon as we met this man, he looked at me and he says, Rafael, you've got to help this pastor on the other side of the island.

[00:14:30] And in that moment I knew it was the church we had turned down. Wow. Yeah. It's a fascinating story. And you know, Rafael's a ton of experience in the challenges of ministry, because you ended up taking over that church.

[00:14:52] And there was maybe a little bit of a honeymoon period, but that kind of disappeared pretty quickly. The pastor regretted his decision and tried to do his best to sort of undermine what Rafael was doing for a long time.

[00:15:08] So there were a lot of difficulties and challenges in the early years of taking over a church and re-establishing it. But as we fast forward to 2021, it's just amazing, the beautiful work that God is doing.

[00:15:29] And I mean, every time we're together and you tell me the stories of the people that God brings to your church. People that you've met over the years in O'Rafiole, because my orca is a bit of a destination for people.

[00:15:42] Some significant people in the church in the 20th century have spent time there and passed through the fellowship that Rafael is pastoring. He's gotten to know them. And then just some kind of crazy people that just wash up on the shore of my orca.

[00:16:02] And they have some pretty wild stories, but it's really fascinating what the Lord is doing. And Raf could we could be entertained all day long with stories of some of the characters in this experience here.

[00:16:18] So Raf, you are so your first European member of the executive team and also first Spanish speaking member of the executive team.

[00:16:27] I think both of those are significant. I mean, could both of you maybe just share some of your thoughts and vision about why is Europe significant? Why is the Spanish speaking world significant as a global network?

[00:16:39] Why is this important to us that we have representation and things like that from different parts of the world and different languages? Yeah. Well, I would say, I mean, Spanish is a bit of a secondary aspect to this.

[00:16:54] I think Raf's, you know, one of the reasons why I really wanted Raf to be part of the executive team is because he has a broad experience across Europe itself. And many, many relationships across a number of European countries.

[00:17:10] So it's not just a Spanish thing for Rafael and, you know, he's well connected with the, you know, Italy and France and Germany and all of that. He really is kind of a natural fit to be part of the team in the bigger broader European thing.

[00:17:29] Manolamato says now part of our team as well, and of course he's a Spanish speaker but he's Spanish speaker from South America as Manolo is in Lima, Peru. And so, but of course we, we want to connect with the Spanish world.

[00:17:45] But Raf is pastoring a church that is English speaking. And so although, you know, he lives in Spain and obviously speaks Spanish and he interacts in Spanish. I mean, you can talk a bit about the Spanish thing if you.

[00:18:01] Yeah, I think Spanish is one of the most spoken languages in the world, you know, and particularly in, well, in Spain and in South America, Central America.

[00:18:11] A lot of the Spanish people don't speak English, so they don't have access to their resources that we might enjoy as English speakers.

[00:18:20] And I think it's a tremendous opportunity to be able to have that aspect of CGM that is involved in developing people and encouraging pastors and in organizing conferences for the strengthening of those that are serving in different countries.

[00:18:37] I mean, it's a lot of countries that are Spanish speakers. So yeah, and you know, I've heard some statistics about our churches, we have our churches in our network.

[00:18:47] And so after North America, the place that has the second most amount of churches affiliated with CGM is Central and South America, then third is Europe. And so it's a nice connection. What do you both see the gods doing in Europe these days?

[00:19:04] I think after the pandemic, I think we all got a bit shocked and we and people got very discouraged. I had people at church even said to me, church will never be the same ever again. And I felt, you know, just this below of discouragement coming.

[00:19:25] I think a lot of the leadership, a lot of the pastors, there's a sense of discouragement. But I think that Jesus, well, Jesus said, I will build my church and the gates of Hell, and I'm going to prevail against it.

[00:19:37] And so I think that there is a very steady Europe is a slower place, but nevertheless, it is a place where churches are growing. God is doing a work.

[00:19:51] And I think what I would love to see happen is for healthy churches to develop, where there's balance, where there's love, where there's unity, where there's diversity, where there's freedom and continue to cultivate that kind of environment.

[00:20:06] Yeah, and I think, you know, I am in some ways probably the eternal optimist when it comes to ministry in Europe. I'm always thinking that the future is bright, you know. And so we've been in Europe now, we've been here, you know, 35 years.

[00:20:25] And so we've seen a lot of things happen over the years. We've seen churches planted and those churches planted, other churches we've seen. You know, many, many, many people come to faith in many of the different European countries. We've had radio stations and conference facilities.

[00:20:47] And all of that is things that I look back with great fondness on and excitement in the sense of thinking like, wow, Lord, I got to be part of that. But I also look forward and think there's still, there's much more to do obviously.

[00:21:05] And I just tend to think that that God is not finished with the work here in Europe that he began, specifically through our ministry. Obviously God is working through all different kinds of, you know, churches and ministries.

[00:21:21] And we are partnered with other churches and ministries, but I think, you know, through our own tribe, if you will, I still sense that there's lots and lots of lots of things to be done.

[00:21:32] And you know, Nick, I spent an hour yesterday with a group of 20 plus Hungarian pastors and you lived in pastor to hungry for 10 years.

[00:21:39] So you know all of that, but just to see these guys who are thinking about the future and with excitement and not wanting to just settle down and say, okay, well, we sort of plateaued and this is cool, but thank you, no, we want to keep moving.

[00:21:55] So I see that and I think with Rafael in particular, Rafael is he's great relationally. So he's going to be able to give encouragement in all of these different countries to guys who just need sometimes just somebody to come alongside.

[00:22:11] Maybe with a phone call and say, hey, how you doing? And what's the Lord doing so.

[00:22:16] And the thing, you know, having done ministry in Europe for a decade, one of the things that I would want our listeners to know about Europe, what makes it unique and what makes it strategic in a way if you will for the kingdom of God is that if you would think about it like this, the United States North America.

[00:22:33] It kind of functions if you globally, kind of like an island that sends people and resources to do things around the world.

[00:22:40] Europe is different in the sense that Europe is much more like a heart in the sense that you have the blood coming into the heart and then going out from the heart.

[00:22:50] And I would say, that's what's really special about Europe. That's what's really special about London even within Europe is that London is like the capital of that.

[00:22:59] The whole world comes to Europe, the whole world comes to London, particularly. But that's true of all the major cities in Europe. They're very international and you know, for example, my wife and I before we are married, we met an African refugee in Deborah, San Hungary who ended up coming to a Bible study.

[00:23:18] We did in an abandoned Russian military base that was functioning as a United Nations Humanitarian Center where he was living.

[00:23:27] We had a Bible study for Africans, we had one for different Asian countries as well. But this young man, we just saw this guy has a heart for ministry.

[00:23:35] So my wife and I helped pay for his first semester at Bible College, which was in Hungary. And then from there he got connected to the church in Budapest.

[00:23:44] Years later the church in Budapest sent him to Abuja, the capital of Nigeria, where he planted a church and since then, multiple churches have been planted out of that.

[00:23:54] And I think that's incredible and that is just one of dozens, maybe more hundreds of stories like that. I mean you must have seen that in London all the time.

[00:24:02] Yeah, but we did. And I mean, you know, Roth basically was launched out of London into America when I left London.

[00:24:09] Our whole ministry team basically dispersed. There was still the minister team left to pastor the church. But a lot of the people on the team that felt, you know, it's specially connected to me.

[00:24:20] It was like, okay, Brian's going to go. So we're going to go and they went out and every one of them went out and planted churches. That's what that's, you know,

[00:24:29] Roth went out of the UK into Spain. Everybody else kind of scattered around around Britain. But yeah, I agree 100%. And that's one of the things that keeps drawing me back into Europe.

[00:24:45] We're here at this European Poster's Conference and there are several guys who are from Africa. There are people from Asian countries, you know,

[00:24:52] And I think that that is what makes Europe so unique. You know, if you think about just the mission of God and North America has its place, of course, south central America has this place.

[00:25:03] But this is what's unique about Europe. And I think it matters that Calvary Chapel has a global movement of churches that wants to plant churches, it wants to do evangelism.

[00:25:11] It's important that we be here. It's important that we be continuing to encourage the planting of new churches and the supporting Apostles on this continent. You know, Roth, too, I would wonder if you even would have a thought on this about because, you know,

[00:25:25] There was that moment where you actually had an opportunity. You had had some life experience in the US. So for you to have gone back to the

[00:25:33] States and even just set up camp and lived in the US, you could have done that quite easily. I would imagine was, was there any scent in you?

[00:25:42] And I think there probably is now but was there any scent in you that God was calling you more to Europe versus settling down in life in the US?

[00:25:53] You know, my, my first lately has been over that I had wings like a dove and I would fly away and be at rest.

[00:26:00] I mean, it's not easy being in Europe. You know, things don't go as fast. You know, it's complex. People are very strong in their view, in their worldviews and things like that. So it's quite challenging.

[00:26:12] Sometimes there's the thought it would be easier if you go into a community where Christianity is more than norm and things like that.

[00:26:19] So there has been the thought, but it's interesting that sometimes in conversing with friends and you're just kind of just a couple weeks ago I had a conversation at a really low moment.

[00:26:31] And I was talking to a friend and I was like, and I told them about that person is like, yeah, but you're there for life right?

[00:26:38] And it's like, it's almost like the Lord just doesn't let me and there's that sense that I cannot walk away from this because I believe that God's not done.

[00:26:51] I believe we're just, which is not only are we seeing a lot happening, but I really believe there's much more. I had.

[00:27:03] Yeah, but like you said, it is a bit of a slow go. You know, I mean, I just mentioned 35 years and you know, we have a few hundred churches. I think in all of the region combined.

[00:27:16] Give or take a few, we've had more at times and you know, maybe some have have dropped off, but.

[00:27:23] But it is it is slow. It is difficult to dis-challenging, but there's the rewarding element to it as well where you see, you know, one of the things I've been impressed with just the past couple of days being here is to see what's happening with the German churches.

[00:27:36] And again, we've had, you know, ministry in Germany for a lot of years and just to see kind of some fresh moving of the spirit to see guys getting rich to get in wanting to forge ahead.

[00:27:49] And, you know, I'm just listening to these guys and talking to them and thinking, yeah, the Lord's moving. Yeah, and that's great. And the churches, I mean, they are flourishing their seasoning, they're deepening. You know, so it's so slow growth is not necessarily bad.

[00:28:09] Slow growth can be quite healthy if it's going deep and if it's equipped with people.

[00:28:15] And it's a presence, it's a presence in every town and these these these slow works. I mean, I just think of one and the UK that it's taken years, but they were handed a building and they've expanded it in the churches.

[00:28:28] And it's grown and and one of the missionaries is here and has been here for 15 years and has and his church is flourishing here.

[00:28:36] And you just think, my goodness, this we cannot take this for granted, you know, and I think there's a big difference between grass and an oak tree.

[00:28:47] You know, one of the things I would say also about European Christianity is that because there isn't that cultural Christianity that might exist in North America and even some places in South Central America because it is a very secular place.

[00:29:02] The Christians take their Christianity quite seriously. You don't have a lot of lukewarm kind of like halfway in halfway out Christians, I mean, sure you have some, but I would say much more to be a Christian and Europe, you know, these these people are quite serious about following Jesus. I would say that that's a difference that I've noticed pastoring in both places.

[00:29:25] Rafael, what are you excited about for the future of C.G.N.? I'm excited about just just a ministry that's focused on encouraging leaders to flourish and what God has called them into, you know, with diversity, with a respect of their unique of seeing people complimenting each other and their giftings as opposed to compare.

[00:29:55] And comparing and competing, you know, so so these conferences where you just come and there is a sense that there's there's an emphasis on friendship and relationship.

[00:30:10] And mutual encouragement through the scriptures and sharpening of each other, these things and the freedom, you know, a sense of freedom to seek God to seek the Word of God together and to teach the Word of God.

[00:30:25] I'm just encouraged and very excited about just equipping people to towards what God is calling them to.

[00:30:36] And I have a little bit of an anecdote when I went to, when I was going to go to London with Brian, it's interesting because he said this to me, we want you to be what God wants you to be, not what man wants you to be.

[00:30:51] And in the first that didn't really understand it, and then when I got to London, I said to him, I said, Brian, if you see me do anything wrong, you tell me and I change.

[00:31:02] I would have said that to anyone, I wanted to grow, you know, so it wasn't. And he said to me, the Holy Spirit can speak to you and if you do something really bad, I'll let you know.

[00:31:14] And then I just, I just, I say those two things because I think that's the heart of the ministry.

[00:31:20] The heart of the ministry is to encourage people into what God is calling them to do and then to give the freedom and the relationship, the friendship to hear God in their particular area. So I'm really, really excited about that.

[00:31:43] That's great. Well, if you are listening, maybe you're in Europe or in some other way, something from this episode cause you to want to connect with Rafael or with what we're doing in Europe through CGM contact us at cgn.com

[00:31:57] We'll be that you connected. Thanks so much for your time today, Rob. It was a pleasure. Thanks for listening to this episode of the Cgn mission and methods podcast. In our next episode, Pastor Brian and I will be speaking with Mike Neglia.

[00:32:11] Mike Pastor's Calvary Quark in Quark, Ireland, originally he's from California but Mike moved to Ireland as a missionary and has been serving there now for almost 20 years.

[00:32:22] He also leads expositors collective, which seeks to train and mentor teachers and preachers of the Bible through in-person training events and a weekly podcast.

[00:32:32] New episodes are released every two weeks so make sure you subscribe to the podcast so those episodes will be delivered to your device as soon as they come out. We'd love to hear feedback from you on these episodes who can email us at cgnacowarychapel.com

[00:32:46] And if you'd like to support this podcast one of the best ways you can do that is by giving us a rating and review on your podcast app. Written reviews are particularly helpful in helping to boost this content so other people can find it and benefit from it.

[00:33:01] Until next time, God bless you.