Knowing Your Limits As A Pastor - Part 2 | Nate Holdridge

[00:00:00] This podcast is a part of CG and Media, a podcast network that points to Christ. We are supported by listeners like you To help us create more great shows visit cg and media.org slash support Welcome back to the Leadership Collective Podcast. I'm Rob Sobato

[00:00:16] And today is part 2 in our conversation with Pastor Nate Holdridge We're talking about the subject of knowing our limitations as a pastor and a leader Paul Trip and his book lead has an excellent chapter on limits. He writes every leader is a package of God-given gifts and

[00:00:38] God-assigned limits Everyone in everything has been designed by God with limits and it never works or never results in anything good to attempt to live Minister and lead outside of the boundaries of the limits that God has set. So in part two of this conversation on limitations

[00:01:00] Nate, Ted and myself are discussing how we need to develop healthy rhythms in our leadership in order to avoid leading outside the boundaries That God has set for us in a particular season of life and ministry

[00:01:17] And so now here's part two of our conversation with Pastor Nate Holdridge So, you know we're talking all about these are our limitations and it's cool to be in touch with them But we have to come up with rhythms that work for us that respect these limitations

[00:01:38] So how has healthy rhythms? How have they played a part in all of this for you guys? Maybe maybe Ted you could speak into that a little bit. Yeah, I love the word that you've used you actually have mentioned at several times you talk about margin

[00:01:54] And I was I was really guilty for a lot of years that I used to Franklin planner and I would have every appointment everything that I had Schedule it was the best thing that ever happened to me. It was the worst thing that ever happened to me

[00:02:13] I became a lot more efficient than I naturally am with that using that system, but but I had just as by way of an example I would have counseling from 2 p.m. to 3 p.m. and I would have another counseling appointment 3 p.m. to 4 p.m.

[00:02:29] And then I'd have a meeting 4 p.m. to 4 p.m. And what that equates to is there is no margin. There's no space between the two

[00:02:41] And I just learned that simple concept of margin and I wish I could remember who first taught it to me because I heard it on the radio I think it was a guest on focus on the family who was talking about margin

[00:02:53] And I thought that's brilliant first of all because you're counseling appointments always run laid anyway And secondly just because having a little breathing room in between Makes a lot more difference than you think So that was part of that rhythm of going okay

[00:03:12] I need to schedule 15 minutes, 20 minutes, half hour in between my appointments Just for the sake just to go to bathroom Yes, because when you run from one thing to the next the stress is incredible Yeah, so yeah that was good

[00:03:35] And then that also helped me in establishing margin taking that same principle And applying it to the bigger question here which is what should I be doing What should I be doing and I needed to come to this place where I recognized

[00:03:54] Just as I wasn't allowing any space between these things I'm really not allowing there I'm filling up available space within my limited amount of time With things that I've got no business doing And that takes you know as we said earlier that takes a lot of introspection

[00:04:16] It takes some humility to be able to say I'm not good at this And I shouldn't be doing this And sometimes the stuff that you say that you shouldn't be doing is stuff that maybe you like

[00:04:28] Or would like to be doing and you just go yeah I might like that but there's other people who can do it better And they should be doing it And I think when we realize that you know what the blessings in that is that

[00:04:40] You know we end up Fring somebody else To use their gifts and be used And it sounds like in this conversation that Nate understood this a lot Maybe sooner than you and I did It's harder than you

[00:04:58] So where I don't know why I went into ministry just thinking that I had to do everything Yeah, you know and I lived that way for the longest time And same thing as you packed my schedule you know way fuller that should ever be

[00:05:18] And was running late to every single meeting because every meeting ran over And you know coming that place where you know giving space, giving margin Was so important and then coming to that place also of recognizing that

[00:05:32] You know these are the things that I'm supposed to be doing And there's other people who I'm actually opening up a door and opportunity For other people to use their gifts who are way more gifted at You know this particular thing than I am or you know maybe

[00:05:51] Were equally as gifted but because of my lack of margin I go into that situation you know with half of my energy, half of my brain Where they are they're able to give their all

[00:06:05] Right to it and so the only thing I think I would mention in this is that When it comes to just switching gears or picking up something new I'll use that term you know picking up something new maybe something that

[00:06:19] You know God is calling me to and I'll give an example in this That the idea but when I'm picking up something new oftentimes That means I have to let go of something old And so in in our church my wife and I started our

[00:06:35] Our marriage ministry that we that we do And it was one of those burdens that just wouldn't go away And I tried to get five or six different people to lead this

[00:06:47] Ministry and I had I had the vision I had the plan and after you know a couple of Years of it just never getting started God was like you need to do this and so we did it

[00:06:58] And we did it probably for eight years but just in the last few years As you know I've got more involved in like you know this And we're doing the pastures and leading cohorts that was one of the things

[00:07:11] That I let go of that I gave it to my marriage and family pastor And and said you know hey you're going to do this with me this year And then after this you're going to do this right And sometimes we're not even there anymore

[00:07:25] You know they just do it and I love how you thought ahead to do that too Because some that's part of margin too right is that you're not just tackling it Like who am I going to dump this off on now

[00:07:34] Right but you're thinking ahead to say who am I going to prepare for this Yeah, I think one of the best things that we can learn to do in Ministry is to be Proactive rather than reactive leading the target

[00:07:49] Yeah, we're leading the target instead of just reacting to oh my gosh You know we got to do something now that we're proactive in preparing That there's a there's a plan and I think that is born out of knowing your limitations

[00:08:03] Yeah and it also is helped by not being exhausted Right going into it and if you are exhausted then that's the first place to start Okay, what do I what do I I'm good. Sorry I was just going to say that's a lot of where margin comes in

[00:08:23] Especially in Ministry work we we in one sense need more margin Than lots of other professions because there is a huge amount of pastoral and Ministry work that is responsive

[00:08:35] We have to respond to problems and we need to be available for people when when they have needs that arise We can't plan those you know they don't fit into the daytime Yeah, so I like I always try to have like a measure of

[00:08:52] Understanding with the people that I'm working with when they're making their plans I try to be the voice that's like okay scale it back to something more doable because

[00:09:03] This plan that you've made it's great, but when are you going to meet with a guy one on one when are you going to be available for an emergency counseling? You're you're so maxed

[00:09:16] So having that margin it helps you actually do a little bit of the responding while still leading from the front It's good. That's really good I heard Pete's because zero is how you say his name

[00:09:31] The health thing so yeah, yeah he said that this is kind of fits in with what we're talking about But I just thought about this that your body is a major profit not a minor profit

[00:09:45] You know, just learning how to listen to your body and how the Holy Spirit and the Lord will speak through your body And you know when you're sensing and feeling like that fatigue and stuff that could be God's way of trying to show you

[00:10:01] You know what a limitation might be But let's shift gears and talk for a few minutes about the limitations for a church We've been talking about it for the pastor as a whole Right, but I think all of our churches also have limitations

[00:10:17] You know your church can't do everything well So how important is it for you as a pastor and as your staff You know to know what what's the role and purpose of your church in your community

[00:10:34] So I'm wondering how do you guys approach that for your church and how do you maybe even approach that in relationship To the missions work that you're involved in any thoughts I'll let you go first night. That's a huge question

[00:10:47] Sure, yeah, the only thing I was going to say is I mean first of all I'm so encouraged listening to you guys and talking with you today because It's encouraging me to double back and continue to be hyper clear on what our mission is as a church

[00:11:06] Because I've found that if left to itself a church just naturally becomes more expansive In what it does more complex in what it does and not always in good ways So for me, I've always tried to be very specific in our mission statements

[00:11:26] So I'll give you a couple of examples You know like every church, you know, there's like the up and in an out or you know however you want to say There's the three things right now

[00:11:36] But in our in which for us is growing together or growing in Christ Instead of saying that we have a value for community What we say is we have a value here for community through our life groups ministry

[00:11:58] You see how that for us it just narrows it down It's not that we don't have a value for Christian community that's outside of our small groups ministry

[00:12:09] It's just that we know we don't have the bandwidth to like run all that and we know that the word community is so broad Right that it's like anything under the sun could have you know

[00:12:22] I want to start a flag football league with Christians because community and I want to start a left handed golfers with a plus 14 handicap ministry Because community, you know So being specific there, there's another example in our last leg, you know sharing Christ

[00:12:42] I've said what we want to do there is we want to do acts of mercy and we want to plant churches And You know even acts of mercy is pretty broad

[00:12:58] But because we had had so much traction in addiction recovery and all of that in our community as well as the social services in the Monterey County We felt that was good enough of a parameter for us

[00:13:11] We wanted to be known for and prioritize that and then we wanted to aim our efforts towards raising people up to be able to plant churches And what I've noticed is that over time whenever I leave that alone

[00:13:25] Specifics get bigger and bigger and other people on my team start adding to them to where pretty soon It just sounds like well pretty much anything we want to do we just put it in the mission statement after we've been doing it for a while

[00:13:37] So that's a way that we've done it. It's like Charlie Brown shooting the arrow into the fence and then drawing the circle around you balls I around it Yeah, somebody once said to me you know point out the apostle Paul of he said this one thing I do

[00:13:52] They said he said this one thing I do not these 10 things I dabble in you know kind of thing I think it's really important for and starts with us as those of us that are senior pastors to Have put in the

[00:14:10] The concerted work of prayerfully seeking the Lord to be able to discern what have you called me and my church too And being able to answer that question what are we called to and for us looking at you know where it's starts geographically right where's God put us

[00:14:31] And I'm I'm in a suburb of you know we're we're a town of maybe a hundred thousand people it's it's predominantly young families And so that's that's the you know, that's the the environment that we're in so our ministry focuses

[00:14:50] 10 to focus on the family on the young family you know and so that'll inform some of the things that we're doing some of the things that we invest in And then we also filter through fruit what is what is it that's that's fruitful that's bearing fruit

[00:15:07] As an example of that we used to invest in we would do an annual harvest party and and we spend a lot of money on it even as a little church

[00:15:15] You know work we're spending you know as a little church spent a few thousand dollars on this event And after doing it a couple years I just stood back and I was like what is the fruit of this

[00:15:27] And I didn't like the answer and then there really I mean in in three years we had led one person to the Lord through this thing that we you know could Could quantify and I just thought this is a waste of time and money and resources

[00:15:41] And so we I said from now on we're going to put all of this money into VBS and we really watch God just bless that and multiply that And we leaned heavily into that and that's just one example of kind of how we do it so

[00:15:56] You know, wrecking and then as you I think you point out Nate that you have people coming to you saying You know why don't we have this ministry why don't we have that ministry you know we have a golfing ministry why don't we have

[00:16:08] And being able to just say No we we can't do all that we have to we have to triage the resources that we've got Right and to do triages a French word it means to do the most good for the most number of people

[00:16:22] And so we we have to focus on stewardship demands that we do the most good for the most number of people And every church is going to answer that differently depending on the context that they're in

[00:16:35] I love that you know for us it kind of focuses around definitely our mission But also you know that idea of Jerusalem Judea Samaria and then the other most parts of the earth and just knowing okay

[00:16:49] What is our purpose and what's the burden that God has given us in those three areas Right so for our Jerusalem, okay, that's our church first our body and how we want to take care of them and feed them and the emphasis that we place on

[00:17:06] You know the teaching of the word of God and you know that's preeminent and then you know the building of community with the body and the different groups settings that that we offer

[00:17:18] But then it's also our city and you know so we have we're involved in several different things in our city that we feel like we have margin for you know we do a food distribution thing for our city

[00:17:31] We do a thing with showers for the homeless in our city were involved in a Homeless shelter ministry helping people get replaced and we're doing Bible studies there and a lot of people from that have come and gotten saved and that's been you know amazing

[00:17:48] And so that's our Jerusalem and those things that come up it's like does it fit within our burden and our calling to You know connect people to Jesus and disciple people in Jesus that's like our our focus for Jerusalem

[00:18:03] But then our Judean Samaria are you know the things that happen outside and like you guys I mean Nate does it because he doesn't do email anymore, but I get emails all the time from people

[00:18:16] Hey can you help us with this can you get involved in this and and one of the things that God has shown us that this is our focus

[00:18:23] Is that we want to be about this is the burden the passion that God has given us is to church plant and to come alongside other churches and church planters so our Jerusalem in Judea has been

[00:18:38] You know there's a church in Santa Ana that was moving into a new building and we helped them get new chairs

[00:18:46] You know there's a church in New Jersey that needed to redo a basement for their youth and so we helped them do that because that fit within our you know our burden and our passion The cohort you know taking six guys six pastors that were pouring into

[00:19:07] You know meeting with them throughout the year and the focus was and this is what we relayed to our bodies that we feel like if we can impact Six pastors in a significant way it's going to impact six churches

[00:19:19] Right, and we're seeing you know that and so all the other things what's helped in knowing okay we can't do everything but we can do this it's helped in

[00:19:29] When the different requests come in right of knowing like oh no that's a no because we know this is our focus. Yeah on the mission field same thing our focus is Church planning and coming alongside pastors and churches to help strengthen them you know on the mission field

[00:19:49] And so when I get the email about the orphanage or I want to get the email about you know this building over here that needs to be built or I get the email about coming alongside something going on in Israel

[00:20:02] You know it's usually always the responses one of you know that's that's great. That's awesome. That's such I see the need there, but

[00:20:12] This is what we know God wants us to focus on right, but then I'll say this I always respond in this way. Say but but so we in our budget we have set aside you know our budget for the for this purpose to come alongside church planners pastors and other churches

[00:20:30] To help strengthen them and equip them that that we know is what our vision is but Usually every year at the end of the year we have a surplus and we put

[00:20:42] You know a list of names together where we're going to pray about who to bless with some of that surplus and so maybe that is the orphanage down in

[00:20:53] Maybe that is the but it has been so freeing you know for me when these different requests come along to be able to say you know I know that this is what God has called us to right you know

[00:21:10] And so we're probably not going to be able to get involved in that you know because this is where our focus is and this is what we know that

[00:21:19] You know God has called us to and that's been so great in order learning to be laser focused in that way and I think of it in terms of I heard somebody put it this way once it's the difference between being a shotgun blast

[00:21:34] That makes a you know shotgun blast makes like a lot of little tiny dense the BB goes down it makes a lot of little tiny dense and a whole bunch of areas

[00:21:42] Right versus being a sharp shooter where you're making a big dent and one or two or three areas And so we're trying to be sharp shooters in the things that we know that God has given us a burden and a passion

[00:21:55] Yeah, we saw that with Ukraine the whole thing went down in Ukraine Yeah, everybody's got a burden to be involved in some way like you our missions involvement is anchored in a local church

[00:22:06] That's that's our approach to missions. We want to see any missionary endeavor has to be anchored in a local church I reached out to two friends of mine Nick Katie who has up the Cultivate Initiative with C.G.N and pastors Whitefield Church

[00:22:19] Well he came out of Europe, you know that Rob Thompson same thing and they're connected relationally with a lot of guys who are pastoring in Ukraine Yeah, and so I said hey I got people in my church they're looking to give towards this and looking to help

[00:22:34] And so I just said you guys are connected with pastors churches on the ground and then that was a way that our vision could be realized through a crisis

[00:22:44] Yeah, you know a crisis of need and the hey we want to do something for this well hey guess what we have a way that we can respond to this that was really yeah We did the exact same thing yeah on that so so good

[00:22:57] Any other thoughts guys before we wrap this up anything You feel like maybe we haven't touched on as relates to this particular subject real quick And I'll just bullet these out you guys can color them in if you feel like it but

[00:23:15] You know, I was I was talking to my wife this morning about this content, you know and And I just started writing down a bunch of bullet points because all each one of these are areas we could dig into longer about when we talk about limitations

[00:23:32] Whether they be our limitations are staff's limitations And so some of these are our limitations that are just natural some of these are limitations because of the way God's wired us some of these are limitations because either sin in our lives or whatever

[00:23:50] But our limitations could come from limited knowledge they can come from a lack of character Not as I spoke about earlier, not being faithful and little sometimes our limitations come from

[00:24:04] You know the fact that some of us are big plate people and some of us are small plate people And it's just how God's major you know some people can just they can just pile on a ton on the plate Stress can be a limiter

[00:24:18] Our time is a limiter our gifting is a limiter our spouse You know you spouse can be can be a limitation for you Season's of life family employment health issues disabilities all these things are things that can Bring limitations and bring their own set of

[00:24:42] Man we got to work through this in different ways. Yeah, which all of that makes me feel that you know a an assessment a regular assessment of just where you're at using a list like you just produced for us to

[00:24:57] That's just so important to regularly step back and say how am I doing How much can I add What needs to come off my plate Where do I need to refocus I think well, we're all trying to say here is that when somebody taps into this in ministry

[00:25:18] It actually leads to such incredible fruit You know I know for me and when I when I feel that I'm operating in my sweet spot And I've got the time and the energy and all of that I become you know

[00:25:31] I have dreams and vision and I become creative and expansive When I'm when I'm just running on fumes man, it's like it's just survival You know I'm not I'm not dreaming about tomorrow I'm just trying to survive today

[00:25:48] And obviously a lot of our brothers and sisters out there that are serving the Lord That's probably the normative experience right because it can be a real grind and we sympathize with that But to fight for that assessment to say I need that space

[00:26:07] We're saying it because it leads to the best fruit in the church It actually makes a better impact than just the go-go go mentality So I love this. I love that you guys are talking about this with people and kind of

[00:26:20] It's almost like you know not that not that people out there need the permission of the leadership collective Organize their lives in a different way

[00:26:30] But it's just so good to hear you know because it's a lot of times not really talked about and so to get it out there So healthy. Thank you guys I love that and The one question I came up about the list there that you mentioned

[00:26:49] Ted was the idea of being a big plate versus a small plate you know individual and

[00:26:57] You're just wondering like how do you figure that out and you know I think to me it seems like the way you figure it out is by trying to put more on your plate

[00:27:08] You know and trying to maybe do more and then realizing I can't do this right you know, but Because sometimes I think all of us, but I meet guys sometimes who I think you know they think their capacity is bigger than it really is

[00:27:28] Yeah, and they wanted you more than maybe God really has intended them or called them to do and so there is that place of Kind of having to fail right and be honest and and I think this is really what it really comes down to

[00:27:47] And you hit it on this native is just being real and honest with ourselves and you know, and that it's okay and That having limitations It's so freeing and and it brings you to a place of being such better health

[00:28:06] Yeah, and you know when you're trying to spin all these different plates and carry more than you know Then you can can handle and it becomes incumbent upon us and this is a delicate part to have the courage to tell somebody

[00:28:22] When they've got too much on their play. Yeah, and I had this conversation with my with one of my guys recently where I was saying look On the one hand I don't want to say no for my people Because

[00:28:36] Some people are big plate people some people are small plate people and so to put them to paint them all with the same brush and say you know, I'm not going to require You know everybody can only do this that in the other

[00:28:51] Well, that's not everybody's capacity. That's not everybody's played so I try not to say no for people but There are some instances where we have to say no for people you know and silly example like for us we have three services on Sunday

[00:29:04] We tell people you can you can work in the children's ministry to those services, but you can't work three You're got we want you to take one of those services and sit in the teaching so we're saying no for them in that capacity

[00:29:16] But we understand why we're doing that and then as well and you're exactly right for knowing whose big plate small plate For us it's a matter of observing our people

[00:29:27] We're us it's a matter of introspection just to understand how God's wired me, how God's made me and then you know for you something I know about you because you and I did the same test and we got the same result

[00:29:41] But we recently took an emotional like you test and what we found what we discovered is I can handle a lot of stress But I don't have a lot of empathy and so you talk about limitations I'm limited in and that's a dangerous combination

[00:29:59] If you can have a lot of stress because everybody else is a whip right When you're living with you when you're living in style

[00:30:07] It's like you drive in everybody into the ground and then you don't have a lot of empathy for the fact that some people can handle it It's deeper than that but yeah, but but I think that too you know has been for me a

[00:30:21] Really healthy thing of coming to the realization that not everybody can run at the pace that I like to run at and that's okay You know and and that's you know that used to frustrate me but now it's

[00:30:36] It's you know, releasing me but it is the observing you know I like to give people you know more than I think that they can handle because sometimes they end up surprising themselves and other times

[00:30:51] You know, they're like, can you take this off of my plate as I can't do this and be like okay, you know That's all right, but but I think for us personally and maybe somebody that's listening this the the important thing

[00:31:03] Is being honest right, you know and with yourself and being honest with whoever it is that you're working with you I've had two hip replacements and since I had them

[00:31:15] There's a guy in our church who owns a gym in our city and so he came to me and said hey, I want to help in your recovery

[00:31:21] And I want my pastor to be healthy so I'm going to set you up and I'm going to pay for it for you to meet with a trainer in our gym And so I meet with this guy twice a week and go through these routines together

[00:31:34] And this guy's 30 years old, I'm almost 60. I'm going to turn 60 and a couple months. He's 30 years old, the former wrestler he is just like Limber and you know as can be flexible as can be

[00:31:48] And sometimes you'll demonstrate this exercise he wants to do I just I'm just like bro, I can't do that I'm never going to be able to do that can we do something else right now

[00:32:00] And it's so humbling you know and sometimes you know he's having me do you know I was doing this exercise yesterday with these you know 10 pound kettle bells Yeah, I mean they're tiny. I'm feeling like a total door a key

[00:32:14] Like I'm doing 10 pound kettle bells and but it's like That's where I'm at on that particular exercise, you know and I have to be okay and it's oh and I think one of the most wonderful things that we can do is come to that place

[00:32:31] Where we release ourselves you know and and are like okay I don't have to be like so and so I don't have to be you know I don't have that that gifting and that's okay

[00:32:44] This is what God has gifted me in and this is when I need to focus on And to me I would hope that Anybody listening to this that that would be the biggest thing that they take away

[00:32:57] And be able to just walk in that freedom and you know and even for the guys that are you know, bi vocational or the guys who might You know, be listening this that have a you know little staff or no staff

[00:33:09] I would just encourage you because I remember being in that spot in that place You know when I was in Oregon there are people capable people in your body Who have time and have ability and have the right heart who would love to help

[00:33:25] If we'll just allow them to and give them opportunity You know and write the vision make it plain so that those who read it may run with it But then just release them so that you can focus on the things that

[00:33:39] That you know God really really wants you to do in this season of your life in this season of your ministry Amen The verse that came to my mind comes from John's Gospel where when they came to John and said hey Jesus is baptizing all these people

[00:33:56] They're not coming to you anymore. What's up and he said a lot of things But one thing he said John 327 a person cannot receive even one thing unless it is given him from heaven

[00:34:11] And it's a little bit out of context to apply it in this way, but I've always Taking that verse as a great encouragement in ministry that God will put in my life what he wants to put in my life

[00:34:26] You know we live in a time it might be the first Time and church history where pastors all over the place are saying to themselves I could pastor thousands of people Where as in the past you just wouldn't even think like that right?

[00:34:47] Just be what's going on in my village what's going on in my neck of the woods how far can my voice carry like a hundred people

[00:34:53] You know, so we just live in a different time and I would just encourage people that are listening you know receive from the Lord what he wants to put in your life Don't fall into that comparison trap and I think I would also say to

[00:35:11] The lead pastors that are out there who have an opportunity to set the pace and the rhythm not just for themselves but for their teams and their church

[00:35:23] Staff or volunteers I'd encourage you to set expectations of having your people unplug and get away the especially the younger people that you have on your teams

[00:35:37] They have never lived in a disconnected time or world so they're they're always on and my encouragement to you, especially if you've got you know young pastors with families and all of that that they're trying to raise is

[00:35:53] Help them to create these healthy rhythms that we're talking about and establish norms of just like look if I get an email that's Post that stamped as coming at 11 30 p.m. from you, I'm not proud of that right?

[00:36:11] I I rebuked that you know rather than, oh wait a go you're just always accessible, you know that kind of thing. I have a plan if there's an emergency this is how I'll reach out to you otherwise be sensible. Yeah, stuff like that's so important.

[00:36:28] That's a really good observation that we had to put out a policy in our church to be able to say look this is when this is when you when you all stop texting each other. This is when and so and our policy you know and you know how it goes like sometimes you think about something or or whatever and you just got a

[00:36:48] Get this done and so what we said is you know if it's if it's after hours send an email because native never answer it. I

[00:36:58] We said send an email and then that way everybody knows if you get an email there's no expectation of responding to it of reading it anything. You know, it's understood I needed to get this out of my head and to you.

[00:37:11] And let's talk about it during business hours, you know, so so that's very important and I also important to clarify what we're not saying in talking about the importance of establishing rhythms and times of of disconnect to be able to connect with the Lord and and all what we're not saying is that if you're inclined to a fast pace in ministry because you know my church.

[00:37:38] We are a fast pace ministry is a matter of fact that's the hardest thing for new employees to adapt to is the pace of our ministry. And and so what we're not saying is that you have to change the pace of your ministry.

[00:37:50] We're just saying that you have to put in some margin into that and some some space into that where people are in curt not only encouraged to, but it's actually.

[00:38:03] Strategically thought through how people are going to be able to have that time of of disconnect and you know quite time at the Lord.

[00:38:12] You know one of the things that we've done as a staff the last few years that has been super helpful on this is every fall will sit down as a staff and we'll look at the coming year and we'll map out, you know, the year and we'll be putting everything on the calendar.

[00:38:29] And you know we do it in a way where everybody can see the calendar and then it gives opportunity for people to say hey that seems too close to this.

[00:38:39] We could we move that, you know, could we move that a couple weeks or could we move that to you know here because you know instead of me just setting that pace and being like this what we're doing and you know get on board and you know I've learned.

[00:38:56] The need to be able to let them weigh in on that and help create the pace and help create the rhythm you know for our church and.

[00:39:06] And so we've moved something sometimes that we're in the spring we boobed of the fall because the spring was too busy you know and it was just a thing we're like okay this doesn't have to be here we could move it there and we did that as a team.

[00:39:19] And I love about that as that's so smart not just for your church, but it's smart for your staff. So you're it's both and yeah that's really good. Well back concludes our show for today we hope that you enjoyed this two part episode on the mutations.

[00:39:33] And if the leadership collective podcast has been a blessing or help to you would you please like and subscribe to the podcast and share it with a friend we would greatly appreciate that.

[00:39:45] If you have a question for us or a topic that you would like for us to address on the podcast you can reach out to us at leadership collective podcast at gmail.com. We look forward to being with you next time on the Leadership Collective podcast.