Beth Redman Part 1

[00:00:04] Welcome to Women Worth Knowing, the radio program and podcast hosted by Cheryl Brodersen and Robin Jones Gunn. Hello and welcome to this edition of Women Worth Knowing. Well, we're really excited. I'm especially excited because I heard our guest speaking at our Christmas coffee and it was fantastic. And then also, I am really good friends with her best friend, Amy Orr Ewing, who I absolutely adore. So you come highly recommended, right?

[00:00:33] And also, you've probably heard of her husband, Matt Redman, who is a Christian contemporary music artist. Just like amazing, has made me cry before. And Beth is not only his wife, but the co-author of many of the songs that we love and have brought us into the presence of the Lord. And she's the mother of five and she's an Anglo-Saxon.

[00:01:02] I just had to throw that in. I was like, what's the best way to say English? You know, it's just so fun. So Beth Redman is here in studio with us. And you shared just a little bit of your story at Christmastime. And I was absolutely enthralled. Let me give a little bit of a background. When I first went to England, I actually did my very first Bible study for women on a council estate.

[00:01:32] And, you know, when you say estate in America, they think, you know, a lovely house with a long driveway. And you're like, no, it's more welfare housing as we would know it today. And so I did it. And the woman whose house I was doing it at was dealing drugs at the door. But it was an open door and an opportunity. I was in Clapham Common. Wow. So, yeah, where they locked them in at night. It was an interesting and wonderful experience.

[00:01:59] So when you said you grew up in council houses, I mean, I don't know that our audience who's listening actually understands what that means. Yeah. Well, thank you so much for having me on the program. Yeah. So a council house, I guess it's like the projects. It's a government funded housing area for people who cannot afford to pay for their own rent. And so they have to lean on the government.

[00:02:28] And so that's a gift. But you're also putting a lot of people together who have a lot of the same sort of issues, poverty, economic struggles, but also brokenness. And with that comes drugs, comes prostitution, comes gangs. So there was a lot of chaos around us. And it's also some precious families around us. But the best thing about that experience was in the middle of that council estate was a church.

[00:02:58] And it was a building that was shared by the Catholic Church, the Anglican Church and our church, which was a Pentecostal free church. And it also was a bar that the community would use. So it was all things to all men and women. But that church saved my life. It changed my life. It showed me from day one who Jesus was in the midst of so much chaos. But yeah, life was hard.

[00:03:25] It was normal for me to go to my neighbor's house for food because we didn't have food. Wow. It was normal to go to call for a friend whose mom happened to run a brothel. And the things that you would see that would be normal. You didn't know that wasn't, you know, the right thing for a child to see and experience. But God saved me. He provided a river. And he brought me out of that place. I didn't have to stay there. I love that. All right. Now, where is this in England? What area? So it's an area called Crawley.

[00:03:55] Yeah, I know what Crawley. If you were heading to England, you may want to just drive through the coast. It's kind of like Brixton. Yeah. And then I lived in an area called Broadfield, which was one of the toughest areas in Crawley. The avoid, the, you know, do not go. And, you know, a girl in my school was murdered when we were in high school by another girl in my high school. There was a lot of crimes. One of my brother's best friends became a suicide bomber. I mean, it was a crazy, insane area. Yeah.

[00:04:25] Beth, you know what's so interesting is just you walked into the studio today and I was like, oh, what a lovely woman. I can't wait to talk to her. And every single person we meet, we never know what their story is and how the redemption stories just give such honor to God. And I'm so glad you could be here today to, that's the first thing that filled me up as you started talking. It's like, Jesus, you can do anything. It's beautiful.

[00:04:51] He can reach a little girl on a council estate through a wonderful. He sees us. He knows us. He cares. He draws us to himself. And I love the way that the Lord uses his church to become a family. I mean, what is it that Eugene Peterson said that we're like an outpost of heaven, you know, in enemy territory, you know, on earth. And so you found this little outpost. Did you feel safe at church? Oh, there wasn't a question.

[00:05:20] In fact, it was probably the only place I felt safe. And I was texting with one of my friends who her parents were my Sunday school teachers. She's still in my life and they're still safe people in my life now. Absolutely. You know, God's kindness to me. The way you can look at life, you can say this is what I didn't have or this is what I didn't get. But God was always there making a way.

[00:05:44] And whether it's a season where you're in a pit and you feel forgotten, God is still there and he can make good out of those places. And I'm just so thankful for that church. And back then, I don't think there were many people on staff, on salary. These people were just doing it because they love Jesus and they shaped me and changed me. And I even know my parenting and my hospitality. I draw back from that season and those people and they will get a reward in heaven for that. These thankless servants.

[00:06:14] You know, God sees all of that and it matters in eternity. How old were you when you started going to that church and how did you first, you know, stumble through the doors or get there? Well, I lived with my grandma when I was first born. I actually, my crib was a dresser because my parents couldn't afford a crib. So I lived there to begin with when I was a baby and then we were just waiting for the government housing to be available and this area became available.

[00:06:41] So I lived there from when I was about one and then started going to this church from as early as I can remember. Wow. And yeah, just those beautiful memories of learning what the Psalms were. I still remember that moment and I remember songs and moments in worship and moments dancing and feeling free. And yeah, I just, those beautiful memories. I love that.

[00:07:10] I love, you know, I come from a Pentecostal background too, a four square church. So I'm very drawn to Pentecostal churches and it seems to me that sometimes it's the Pentecostals that are the kindest. Just the most loving, most giving individuals. And I think that's the work of the Holy Spirit in all of our lives that just brings that out. So now you said you were able to get off the council estate. How old were you when you were able to get off? So I was 19. 19.

[00:07:40] That's a long time on council estate. How was schooling all through those years? Schooling was terrible. Yeah, schooling was terrible. As one would expect. Yeah. I mean, I experienced a lot of bullying and I can understand why because I think my personality at the time, I was so shy and more of a fearful person. So I think you kind of have a bit of a target. If you don't know who you are and you're not confident in your identity, then I don't think you know even how to give a boundary.

[00:08:07] So I think I was kind of a bit of an easy target. And so I experienced a lot of bullying in high school. And that made it really frightening to go to school. And so I often just wouldn't go to school. And back in those days, you actually get in trouble. So I didn't do much learning. But what was beautiful was this church youth group that I was a part of was just exploding. There was this move of God happening and just happened to be around at the time.

[00:08:35] And it was just I couldn't wait. I'd have been there seven days a week if I could. And again, it was just God always had the church be the river, the place of strength and abundance. And there are hard seasons in our life. Not everything is going to be good. Not everything is going to be perfect. And I got through it. I graduated. And yeah, but God put me and kept me together through the church.

[00:08:58] We have seen such a pattern with the women that we've talked about and women that have come in where God used a Sunday school class in their childhood, a youth group. It's just that evidence is there that that's a good work. I just feel like anyone listening going, well, I was thinking about volunteering to help teach Sunday school or work, but it's a lot of work. Just do it. Just do it. Yes. I'm so glad you say that because honestly, I've seen about that scripture.

[00:09:28] The day, you know, the first will be last. And I think we place so much value or Western society places so much value on celebrity and metrics and numbers and how many followers. But I'm like, it's those precious things that we do in the unseen places that matter. I'm not saying if you're doing something big, it doesn't matter. Everything is beautiful to God if it's done for God.

[00:09:52] I'm saying those lowly places, the work that you can do for Christ and what matters into eternity and the lives that you can change. And it's funny, I'll meet people who read one of my books when they were a teenager. And I'm like, I can't. I don't think I should have written a book when I was 24. Okay. And they'll hold on to this one phrase or this one thing. You think, you know, God can just use the best that we've got to give. He can use it as treasure.

[00:10:20] And some people will never forget how you made them feel. They'll never forget the words or the scripture. And so anyone considering serving, I'm like, go for it. Pull yourself up where you have capacity and you're feeling that prompting of the spirit. There will be grace and there will be reward. You know, I had a little boy in my Sunday school class. I was able to teach the fourth and fifth grade. And usually I'm in first grade on Sunday mornings. And I had this little boy. And when he first came to my class, he stuttered and he was very insecure.

[00:10:50] And he comes to church now like he owns it. And like he's fourth and fifth grade, like this is his happy place. It's the place where he can be absolutely, totally himself. And he's surrounded by friends. There's no more stuttering. And his mom and I were talking at the door just about what a miracle he is. And I was just so excited because, you know, sometimes you get a whole year with them in first grade and all you can do is just love them and, you know, give them as much of the gospel as they're able to take at their age.

[00:11:20] And, you know, I feel like kids have a lot of energy and I want them to make friends and really be themselves. And so I see him now and I'm just I get to see the fruit I got to on Sunday. And I was so excited. And I was thinking I used to say it takes a church to raise a child, maybe because I'm a pastor's child and because I have my own children and I married a pastor.

[00:11:46] But I think the idea of there are so many people who have the opportunity at church to put into a child. And I know I am so grateful for all those who put into my life, even though I was the pastor's daughter. There were so many that realized the insecurities and the I just think the scrutiny and criticism

[00:12:09] that comes up of being a pastor's daughter and spoke truth and value and commendation and, you know, words of just encouragement to me. And I think that means so much to stop a child and say, I love your shoes. Or, you know, I see that you can run fast. I mean, just I feel like we've been born again so that we can be commending. So we've got you through the church and now you're 19. Where did you move?

[00:12:39] How did you get off the council estate? This band from California came into my school. They were so full of the Holy Spirit. I love that. Tommy Walker band. Oh, yes. Oh, my goodness. Okay. Well, Rob Dingman is now a pastor in Twickenham, England, and he was part of the Tommy Walker band. Well, they came into my school. Oh, my goodness. Tommy will be so excited to hear this. Yes. Well, I did end up having an amazing connection with Tommy later in life. Yes. I can tell you about later if we have time.

[00:13:08] But I mean, I just saw Jesus all over them. But I saw this is what I want to do with my life. And this was this shy, terrified, overwhelmed teenage. I was like, I want to tell people about Jesus the way that you do, the way that you do. I don't know how I'm going to do that. But they just gave me this vision and this hope for my life. And so I just began to look for opportunities.

[00:13:34] And there was a project that Youth for Christ had where you would travel around the UK and Europe around schools, talking to young people about Jesus and using music as a vehicle. And so I applied and I got the place. And I'm like, OK, how do we do this like speaking about Jesus thing? And so they were just so gracious. They trained us. They taught us. And I got to do that for a whole year. And during that time when I was away, my mom actually moved away. My parents had divorced. It's a very tragic situation.

[00:14:03] I only saw my dad a handful of times. That was it. He died last year and I hadn't seen him for 25 years. Wow. My mom moved away and she moved to a one bedroom apartment in a different part of the country. It was kind of her way of saying like, we're done now. And I didn't have anywhere to live. And when I was with Youth for Christ, I was living with this family. You would move in with the family for a week. You do school's work attached to the local church.

[00:14:29] And without me saying anything, they just said, Beth, you know, anytime you're on a break, this is your home. We are your family. And, you know, I took them at their word. And when I'd finished Youth for Christ, I moved in with them. I went on to live with them for a long period of time. And when I got married, I left from their house. Still in my life, their daughter's godmother to one of my children. And God really does set the lonely in families.

[00:14:57] He cares about people who don't have a place to go. And you don't need to Google and strive. But when you have a father who is fighting for you, you need only to be still. And so I didn't even need to put out an advert. I just had a longing in my heart. I didn't have parents. I didn't have a home. And God knew that. And he saw me.

[00:15:21] And I will never be ungrateful for that moment where that family, I'm like, they didn't know. But God knew. And he compelled them. And I never paid a single dollar or a pound. I never gave them anything. And they just poured into me. And they taught me funny things, you know, like, you know, how to roast a chicken or how to pay a bill. And they really reparented me as well, which, I mean, God just does the job, right?

[00:15:49] So that is kind of how I ended up meeting my husband through that family. He lived in that area. They were in the same church. God put the whole package together. I love it. Now, what area are you in now with that family? And so that was an area. It was very posh. This was not a council estate, okay? This was a part of the world called Chorley Wood in England. There's a church there called St. Andrews where there's an incredible move of God in the 90s. And that is where that was, in Hertfordshire. I love that.

[00:16:18] I know where Hertfordshire is. Well, you know, we lived there for four years. So there's certain places I'm like, can I visualize this? And I can. It's pretty. It's a little village. Yes. Super sweet. Yes. I think that's where, is that where Hailee is, the conference center? I've been there. Oh, me too. We used to have our retreats there. Yes, Hailee. All the bunnies on the lawn. Well, all the bunnies and all the posh cows. I was told that those were not just any cows, those black and whites, the Jersey cows. They're the posh cows.

[00:16:47] I was like, before I had been to Hailee, I never even knew there was such a thing as a posh cow. I didn't even imagine. Yeah. That is a beautiful area. It is. Oh, don't you love the way the Lord not only compensates, but he brings out. Now, Beth, you bring this up, and I want to bring this up as a point of context, too. And I think about we have a generation that kind of resents any hardships of their past, and they don't see the value.

[00:17:14] And they don't see how God is working all things together for the good, for the sake of ministry. That's right. And how do you think, like, even the hardships of your youth have helped you to be, like, a better minister of the gospel? I love that quote. I think it's a John Wimber quote, and it says, suffering equips us to mediate God's comfort. It's really just Paul's words to Corinthians.

[00:17:43] He's just reflecting back that this same suffering that I'm experiencing, God is, in his mercy, using actually as a force to minister to others. And I think if you look at the Bible, Genesis through Revelation, that is the vessel through which God is forming and fashioning his disciples. We don't qualify to be disciples unless we will share in the sufferings of Jesus. And that can be the rubber hits the road for some people's faith.

[00:18:12] We say, this is too tough. I'm not interested in this. I don't want to sacrifice or hurt. And actually, we can miss the moment. Would I want to have had a different story? Would I want to make a swerve to the left? Yes. But is it wasted? No, never. God, in his mercy, makes it a commodity that's powerful and precious. So we can actually, as Paul talks about, we actually don't be ashamed of our sufferings.

[00:18:42] We can actually boast in our weaknesses and we can say, oh, my goodness, look where I've come from. Look what I've come through. And I'm not the one worthy of praise. God does it. And I think that encourages anyone from anywhere. And I think it's wonderful to be able to say, hey, I graduated from this university and I'm from this family and I'm from this legacy. Beautiful, gorgeous. But that's not everyone's story.

[00:19:06] You see God continually finding these people in the nooks and crannies of society that the world would write off and go, it's a no. Not beautiful, not glamorous, not intelligent enough, not finished product. And God says, I think I'll have those. I think I'll use them for my glory.

[00:19:25] And so it would be a tragedy for this generation to, they call it the snowflake generation, to actually resist the struggle because there's a holy high calling that comes through and because of it. Well, I went to rumble sales and boot sales. I love those in England. I just like my faith. And then here there's, you know, garage sales and there's swap meets and estate sales.

[00:19:52] And I think it's so amazing to find something that's discarded by somebody else or they're willing to sell and to see the value in it and take it in and clean it up or fix it up. I don't know why, but I love all those places where people take old furniture and dressers and they just, you know. Because it's a redemption story. And a restoration, right? That's what we love. Yes. Those redemption stories in whatever form.

[00:20:18] When Cheryl said that you were best friends with Amy or Ewing, the more we're listening to you, I'm thinking, well, I can see why. That's clear. Oh, Amy. I mean, she has more substance and intelligence and brilliance and warmth. And I mean, she is a constant inspiration. I actually met her through that family. Really? Yeah. So that family that took me in and became my family, their daughter was very close friends with her.

[00:20:45] So I met her way back when I was a teenager, probably around about 19, and became friends through that family. Oh, I love Amy. Also insights. Sometimes you're like, wow, that is so Holy Spirit given, that insight into like cultures and generations and how to get the message of Jesus across in such a profound way, which I love. Okay. So did you meet Amy or did you meet Matt first? I met Matt first.

[00:21:15] Did you? All right. Now, I want to know how you met Matt because we love romance. We do. She writes romantic stories. I love that. Yes. Okay. So I was part of this Youth for Christ year project. We arrived at the church in Chorley Wood. And I saw a younger man talking to an older man underneath the cross of the church. Wow. And I heard a voice. You know how you hear the Lord?

[00:21:44] I just heard that internal voice of the Lord. And I felt the Holy Spirit say, you're going to marry that man. You're going to marry him in this church. I'm 19. I do not know who that man is. Wow. And I don't know how this is going to happen. And then I find out later on that this man is called Matt Redman. He's a year older than me. He's 20 at the time. And he's this extremely famous worship leader. You've got to remember back then we didn't have social media.

[00:22:13] We're not able to see people and connect in the same way. I'd heard of his songs. I didn't know who this man was. And through this family, the mum was one of the worship leaders at the church. Matt would pop in. He would say hi. We met. I would maybe sing in the band when I was visiting the family. And so I got to know Matt through then. Didn't say a single thing. Didn't introduce myself. Eventually he asked me on a date.

[00:22:42] We ended up getting engaged. Well, we were going to get married. It fell through. We ended up getting married at that church. I love that. All right. Now, when did Matt first notice you? What did he tell you? Well, Matt had made a decision that he felt to really follow God, he would have to stay single. Wow. So he presumed he'd be single his whole life. And then he met me. And it took him a long time to sort of think, could this work? And then he thought, no, actually, she's kind of fiery. I think she could be like a jetpack.

[00:23:13] So he just had a radical change of heart. But I'd actually said to him, I didn't think I could keep singing with him because I had feelings for him. And he said, that's fine. But I'm not one of those people that wants to get married. And so because I'd had that sense from the Holy Spirit, I was completely fine. But I took the next day to fast. I prayed and fasted all day and just said, Lord, if that wasn't you, I repent. And also, please take those feelings away. I don't want to live like this. Right. He phoned me that night about 11 o'clock.

[00:23:39] And he said, I'm so sorry it's late, but I can't sleep without telling you I am one of those people that wants to get married. I want to get married to you. So I put a pizza in the oven. I ate that pizza. I was like, it is finished. Oh, I love that. That's so precious. I love the way the Lord works and makes it so clear.

[00:24:03] I mean, this is like an important decision who you're going to spend the rest of your life on and who you're going to be an heir together of the grace of life with. And I know for Brian and I, it was like, I didn't want to settle for anyone who didn't love Jesus in the extremes. And I think probably Matt did not want a fan. He wanted somebody who was going to love Jesus in the extreme like he did. And he realized he needed that jetpack fire. That's right. Every live story is so different.

[00:24:32] And the ones that are the couples who are both seeking the Lord, it's just so fun to see like the scales fill off their eyes. Like Adam and Eve, Adam woke up and whoa, woman. I mean, it's just that realization. Oh, I thought I knew God's will. And yet here it is. Beth, you have to come back, please. We need to hear more. We're going to go at least to part two. So we want you to join us next week for part two. Again, this was with Beth Redmond.

[00:25:02] And there's so much to her story. We've got to get you to the United States. Thank you for listening to Women Worth Knowing with Cheryl Broderson and Robin Jones-Gunn. For more information on Cheryl, visit CherylBroderson.com or follow her on Instagram or Facebook. For more information on Robin, visit RobinGunn.com or follow her on Instagram or Facebook.

[00:25:32] Join us each week for a lively conversation as we explore the lives of well-known and not so well-known historical and contemporary Christian women. We hope you've enjoyed today's episode. Make sure you rate us on your podcast app, subscribe, and share it with a friend. Thank you again for listening to Women Worth Knowing with Cheryl Broderson and Robin Jones-Gunn.