Dianne Sivulka, Part 2

[00:00:00] Welcome to Women Worth Knowing, the radio program and podcast posted by Cheryl Brodersen

[00:00:10] and Robin Jones Gunn.

[00:00:12] We are glad you're back because you are going to hear more stories about Christian women

[00:00:17] whether missionaries, musicians, reformers, authors, wives, mothers because their examples

[00:00:23] are inspirational to us all.

[00:00:25] That's right and today is no exception.

[00:00:28] We have Diane Solvoka in studio with us, this is part two.

[00:00:32] And in part one which we really encourage you to go back and listen to.

[00:00:36] We always say that don't try to just listen to part two except for I do that a lot

[00:00:42] with shows.

[00:00:43] I'll go to the very end and make sure that it's I know the ending so I can go back but

[00:00:47] we say don't do that now.

[00:00:49] So don't do what we do.

[00:00:51] Don't do that.

[00:00:52] What we want to say is Diane was telling us earlier about just growing up as a pastor's

[00:00:57] kid in California, Central California meeting her husband when she was in college and just

[00:01:07] walking with the Lord.

[00:01:09] The only time that she didn't walk with the Lord was junior high there was a patch but

[00:01:12] meeting a wonderful Christian girl in high school who really inspired her to walk

[00:01:16] with the Lord, the meeting her husband.

[00:01:18] And God does bless those decisions when we turn everything over to him and then we talked

[00:01:23] a little bit about some hard places of infertility after getting married when all your friends

[00:01:29] are doing something else but how God led them a different way to travel because if you

[00:01:35] had had the children in the beginning, you wouldn't have been traveling and God knows

[00:01:39] exactly when to move in our lives and why.

[00:01:43] And he's got these big purposes.

[00:01:45] So you had your children a little later in life ten years after you got married, two

[00:01:49] boys who you homeschooled after years of teaching, other people's children.

[00:01:54] Now you're teaching your own at home or where and then bringing them as part of the travels

[00:02:01] and then when COVID happened and shut everything down, God began to inspire you about when

[00:02:06] everything was no longer shut down.

[00:02:08] I mean really when you think about the ministry that God gave you, what a time that God

[00:02:13] gave you this vision when there's no travel, everyone's wearing masks and God's like,

[00:02:18] when this opens up again, this is the ministry I have for you.

[00:02:21] Do your research now?

[00:02:22] That's right.

[00:02:23] 2020 was a great year to start a travel company.

[00:02:26] Really?

[00:02:27] Seriously it was like, but only God, right?

[00:02:29] Yeah, but it actually was perfect because it afforded me the time to do the training,

[00:02:35] to do the research, to do all the preparation so that I would be ready.

[00:02:39] But honestly who knew that it would ever open up?

[00:02:42] I mean, I remember going to the doctor and he said, you know, it's going to be like this

[00:02:45] for the rest of our lives.

[00:02:46] And you know, there were certain airlines that were declaring bankruptcy so it really was

[00:02:53] an uncertain time on one level.

[00:02:55] But when the Lord speaking to you, it's like a promise, it's like a prophecy.

[00:02:59] This is going to open up in this vision that I'm giving you and this research you're doing

[00:03:03] is going to work.

[00:03:06] So it really is whether you recognize or not, it's very visionary.

[00:03:12] It's very, nobody would do that in their right mind unless the Holy Spirit was inspiring

[00:03:16] that.

[00:03:17] But more than a travel agency, it's a ministry.

[00:03:20] I love the best travel combo.

[00:03:22] It's the best combo.

[00:03:23] Travel on purpose?

[00:03:24] Well, that's exactly what it is.

[00:03:25] It is, I'm not a typical travel company because my vision is that people are going to be

[00:03:31] able to go and experience the destination for all of its beauty, all of its cultural

[00:03:37] and historical beauty.

[00:03:38] But to find out what are the challenges that those people that live there are facing?

[00:03:45] You know, many of the places we vacation in are developing or emerging countries.

[00:03:50] And so when we go, we want to find out what are the challenges and then who's on the ground

[00:03:55] doing something about it.

[00:03:56] And so all of the travel on purpose trips that we do partner with a do good organization.

[00:04:02] And in some cases they are Christian global nonprofits.

[00:04:08] In some cases, they are companies that are employing people and doing vocational training.

[00:04:16] They can look a lot of different ways.

[00:04:18] And sometimes we even just meet with missionaries who are there sharing their faith with the

[00:04:24] community that they live in.

[00:04:26] And so it can look a lot of different ways.

[00:04:28] But what's really important to me is that people experience the real side of a destination.

[00:04:34] So we don't stay in big chain hotels, we don't drink our coffee in Starbucks.

[00:04:38] But instead we really get into the location where I like to stay in beautiful luxury

[00:04:44] boutique hotels that are locally owned.

[00:04:47] We do a lot of cultural walking tours, cooking classes and people's homes, all of that

[00:04:53] kind of stuff.

[00:04:54] It's really special.

[00:04:55] And that sounds wonderful.

[00:04:56] And one of your travel on purpose newsletters arrives.

[00:04:59] I just open it up, pick it up breath.

[00:05:03] I just drink in your words and look at the pictures and just feel like you've taken

[00:05:08] me a little mini getaway.

[00:05:10] But it helps me to even understand those different parts of the world and what's going

[00:05:14] on.

[00:05:15] You have a trip coming up to Antigua?

[00:05:17] Yeah.

[00:05:18] So Guatemala has become a place that I do a lot of travel to.

[00:05:23] We do a women's trip about three times a year.

[00:05:25] I also send a lot of private clients down so couples or families traveling together.

[00:05:30] And Guatemala is a really great destination from anywhere in the United States because

[00:05:34] it's easy to get to.

[00:05:36] And the culture is very, very rich.

[00:05:39] This country has experienced a lot of hardships over the years.

[00:05:43] You know we can go back to colonization.

[00:05:44] We can go back to the civil war that ended not that long ago.

[00:05:48] Particularly women have faced a lot of injustices.

[00:05:52] And there are children who, the statistics are very staggering actually in this country.

[00:05:58] But at the same time, there's a tremendous amount of beauty.

[00:06:01] They have these traditional backstrap looms and they do these weaving of these beautiful

[00:06:07] textiles.

[00:06:08] And so women love to learn about that and see how it's done, how they literally just

[00:06:13] take the cotton right off the trees and spin cotton and then dye it with plants and natural

[00:06:20] substances.

[00:06:21] And then weave these beautiful things.

[00:06:23] We also partner with a family that is three generations of coffee farmers and we go

[00:06:28] into their home.

[00:06:30] We ride in the back of their pickup truck and go pick coffee cherries on the farm and

[00:06:35] we learn the whole process of coffee.

[00:06:37] We also learn how a philanthropist came and taught them how to form their own cooperative

[00:06:44] so they could get rid of the middle man that was taking all of the profit.

[00:06:48] And what a lot of people don't realize that we enjoy our coffee every morning but most

[00:06:54] of the people worldwide who are actually picking it are living on less than a dollar a day.

[00:06:58] And so these trips end up being very educational in eye-opening.

[00:07:05] But I love the piece two where we then get to sit down with a ministry.

[00:07:09] It's not so much volunteering but more vision trip or discovery.

[00:07:13] We get to sit down with a ministry and learn how they are meeting a need that's in that

[00:07:18] community and how lives are being transformed for the gospel.

[00:07:23] You know, the first time I went to Guatemala, you know, all my trips growing up, we never

[00:07:27] got to tour.

[00:07:28] Never tour it in my life.

[00:07:30] It's ever Israel you kind of tour but it's always been because my dad was speaking

[00:07:34] in these book at the Y-Wam base and then, you know, you're meeting these people.

[00:07:39] We went to Lake Gaut de Tichelon and we stayed at the house and Sister Gautz stung by a scorpion.

[00:07:45] So we got that experience but meeting the people because it was always ministry.

[00:07:50] We were meeting the pastor in his wife and seeing how they ministered and again meeting

[00:07:56] the people.

[00:07:57] I love that because too, it's very educational and you know, you're a homeschooling mother

[00:08:02] so, you know, I think people would think right away, oh this would be so great for my kids

[00:08:08] but I think what we're saying now it's good for you as an adult at E.M. age to be educated

[00:08:13] and to have your eyes open.

[00:08:15] Yeah and what happens among the women that go very often women don't know each other

[00:08:19] so they sign up for a tour and, you know, I mean, and the rage, the rage, the rage goodness,

[00:08:27] range of age, just rate, thank you is very wide.

[00:08:30] I mean, I've had on one single trip I've had an 18 year old and an 80 year old so very

[00:08:36] wide range but what it's interesting because these types of trips attract a certain type

[00:08:41] of person and what happens even within the first 24 hours of people not knowing each other

[00:08:47] but meeting each other.

[00:08:48] Deep friendships form around a common experience that is life changing.

[00:08:55] So needed.

[00:08:56] One of my favorite parts of these trips are the conversations that happen around the

[00:09:01] table as people share their stories and what has led them up to this point in their lives

[00:09:07] and what they are learning and then what they take home with them when they return from

[00:09:13] a trip like this.

[00:09:15] So it's so holistic, it's so rich, personal, it's spiritual.

[00:09:20] You can tour or visit a country and really never know it.

[00:09:24] I remember the first time I went to Sweden, we went to a camp to see its midsummer so

[00:09:33] the sun goes down for one minute and then comes up and my dad was speaking.

[00:09:37] And so we're at this camp we're sitting in cabins with other people all our meals are

[00:09:41] with these Christians and they're trying out their English on us and it was so different

[00:09:49] that's the type of trips that I've been on.

[00:09:53] Because sometimes when you're touring and you're just going places, you feel so exploitive

[00:10:00] and when you're doing this type of trip that you're talking about you're giving something

[00:10:05] not just taking it's not like you're not just an observer you're actually participating

[00:10:10] and especially when you sit in someone's home and you hear their story and you get to know

[00:10:17] them it's a different type of a trip.

[00:10:19] It's really this community based tourism that is really beautiful and yeah, so that's

[00:10:26] been a total joy and I love it and we also have a book club it's called the Travel on

[00:10:32] Purpose Book Club and that's been really great too because that's also a way to expose

[00:10:37] people to other cultures and wonderful Christian ministries that are doing good work without

[00:10:43] ever getting on an airplane.

[00:10:44] So that's really I really feel that that is my calling is to help expose people to what's

[00:10:52] happening into the world and then to find out, to ask the question how does God invite

[00:10:57] me to be a part of this story.

[00:10:59] Because also I think it encourages people for me you know my daughter lives in New York

[00:11:03] and she moved out of the city they bought a house and I'm like I'm praying for you but

[00:11:08] I need to see your house.

[00:11:10] I need to be in your house with you so I can pray and there's something about visually

[00:11:14] going to this place and you can think about their life during the day and you can pray

[00:11:19] for them.

[00:11:20] It brings a depth to praying for people and not only that but it brings a knowledge of

[00:11:29] how to pray and it brings a depth to your prayers.

[00:11:32] Absolutely.

[00:11:33] And it gets you involved.

[00:11:35] I probably a lot of friendships have formed even with the people and that are theirs.

[00:11:40] And something you just said it really reminded me too that when you go to these countries

[00:11:47] and you spend time and you take an interest in the hard work that they do day after day

[00:11:53] whether they be missionaries or nonprofit workers or someone who has started a social

[00:11:57] business and is employing a wonderful lady that I've gotten to know she started a social

[00:12:03] enterprise where she employs adults with special needs because Guatemala doesn't have

[00:12:07] services and she's bringing life and purpose to these people and their families but that

[00:12:13] kind of work, any kind of work can feel lonely and you can feel like is anybody noticing

[00:12:18] what I'm doing.

[00:12:19] And so when we bring a woman, a group of women who are enthusiastic to learn and to sit

[00:12:27] and listen to the stories, it also empowers them and it makes them feel seen and heard

[00:12:34] and loved.

[00:12:36] And I encourage the women that go let the Holy Spirit guide you as you go home, what did

[00:12:45] he tell you to do?

[00:12:47] Are you going to, is there someone that you met on this trip that you need to become a prayer

[00:12:51] partner with?

[00:12:52] Is there a ministry here that you need to start supporting?

[00:12:56] And all kinds of things have happened and I never feel any responsibility to make anything

[00:13:00] happen.

[00:13:01] I'm just making the opportunity and making the introductions and creating this beautiful

[00:13:06] travel experience and then the rest is up to them and the Lord.

[00:13:10] Absolutely.

[00:13:11] Now, is your blouse that you're wearing this at from Guatemala?

[00:13:13] It is and this is hand.

[00:13:14] Beautiful.

[00:13:15] It's woven on a backstrap loom and it's all hand done.

[00:13:19] Yeah.

[00:13:20] I remember when we went to Guatemala, I mean my mom bought a bench because this man was making

[00:13:24] the bench and so she had to take this bench home.

[00:13:28] It was, I mean they had that tell, you know, they both passed away that bench from Guatemala

[00:13:33] and then the blankets and my mom was really about finding those people and supporting and

[00:13:41] buying something.

[00:13:42] So their house looked like a museum.

[00:13:44] You know, like oh, this all of wood bowl is from Jordan and it was, you know, women

[00:13:49] that are oppressed, you know, like okay.

[00:13:51] But everything like that and you know too when you do buy things, you have these conversation

[00:13:56] pieces that are testimony pieces that you can tell the story and especially if they're

[00:14:01] non-believers, you get to tell the story.

[00:14:04] Yeah.

[00:14:05] What you offer with travel on purpose is such a many layered experience not only for the

[00:14:11] traveler but for the people that you go back and see again, that connection.

[00:14:17] And I should just also say that it's not just Guatemala, the other locations that we specialize

[00:14:22] in are Morocco, the Balkans, India, Ecuador.

[00:14:28] Those are kind of some of our main ones that we are doing.

[00:14:31] You have stories of India.

[00:14:32] You have stories of India.

[00:14:33] And so good not to go by yourself too.

[00:14:34] You know, I have a friend who wanted to see India so she went on a trip because she could

[00:14:37] get it for free.

[00:14:38] She's a flight attendant and it was, it was really hard for her but when you're with a

[00:14:44] group of women.

[00:14:45] There's a security in the number too.

[00:14:48] So I think that's an important component too.

[00:14:52] Yeah, yeah.

[00:14:53] And I mean it's just a beautiful shared experience so if you've never thought of doing a group trip

[00:14:59] it's something you should at least try once because it will actually blow your mind in

[00:15:06] just how the friendships and the relationships will form.

[00:15:09] I don't know how it happens but it happens every single time.

[00:15:12] And sometimes it's the place that person, there's somebody in the group that's meant

[00:15:16] to go back there.

[00:15:18] And we have seen that with some of our trips that there's a calling and you know there's

[00:15:24] a reason they chose that either a connection or a calling that is so important.

[00:15:29] Okay so what's the adventure?

[00:15:32] Tell me some of the adventures you've had.

[00:15:34] Oh my.

[00:15:35] Well, it depends on where you're going but in addition to the group too or as I also do

[00:15:42] the curated trips for couples and families.

[00:15:44] And so then those are very geared towards what your interests are but the trips I kind

[00:15:48] of create them the way I would want them.

[00:15:51] So you know if you're going to Guatemala, you're going to hike a volcano and then you're

[00:15:57] going to promptly go to the spa that afternoon and have a massage and sit in the hot tub.

[00:16:03] I really create things that I would love to experience.

[00:16:06] We are going to have cooking classes and all the tours to do to understand coffee

[00:16:13] and chocolate and black beans.

[00:16:16] The first time I ever had black beans was so good in that way.

[00:16:19] Yeah, in Guatemala.

[00:16:20] Yeah.

[00:16:21] But if you go to Morocco you're going to ride a camel and you're going to go out into

[00:16:25] the Sahara and you're going to do the spice markets and so yeah it's different everywhere

[00:16:30] but it's a lot of beautiful experience.

[00:16:32] I want to go to all of them.

[00:16:33] You know what?

[00:16:34] I think that a really great thing is to also talk about some of the missionaries who have

[00:16:39] you know like we went on the Wycliffe base but some incredible people who went minister

[00:16:43] to Guatemala or Morocco, we've got Patricia St. John, ministered in Morocco and for more

[00:16:51] on that into a woman worth knowing.

[00:16:53] Yes.

[00:16:54] I have a lot of questions about one.

[00:16:56] But I love also probably what's great about you here is to pair some of these trepids

[00:17:04] with some of the women who have gone there like Egypt is not safe right now but even

[00:17:11] in Egypt we've got Lillian Trasher who went there.

[00:17:15] So I love that too.

[00:17:17] Who was here?

[00:17:18] Who ministered here?

[00:17:19] Well, I'm glad that you're saying that because on every trip that I do I also do a booklist

[00:17:25] and that's why I'm always adding because I think that part of gearing up for a trip

[00:17:30] is reading and understanding even before you go.

[00:17:33] That's part of the deal, not everybody reads but I put it out there and I love it when

[00:17:38] people take a recommendation so I'm going to look into both of those that you just said

[00:17:42] that's what I mean that's for me.

[00:17:45] You know like when we went to England we had to find where is Virgin in a metropolitan

[00:17:50] tabernacle.

[00:17:51] You know yeah but we do that a lot.

[00:17:53] I had the last trip I was like I've got to find where just Fiend Butler New York.

[00:17:57] Oh yes.

[00:17:58] I find Elizabeth Blackwell's hospital.

[00:18:01] Oh well.

[00:18:02] The first infirmary so you could do one even to New York.

[00:18:05] There are so many destinations.

[00:18:06] Yes and you can just go crazy putting it all together.

[00:18:09] So you must have so much fun with the research.

[00:18:11] I love it.

[00:18:12] I love it because if someone says we'd like to go to New York but we want it to be curated

[00:18:17] or based.

[00:18:18] Yes and because then you can start saying well you know there's Elizabeth Blackwell's

[00:18:22] infirmary.

[00:18:23] You could talk about AB Simpson who went there and you know all these different Amy Simple

[00:18:28] McPherson how she ministered New York was kind of the first place that she evangelized.

[00:18:32] I mean there's so much well we have that in common because the first part.

[00:18:35] This is really a lot of time.

[00:18:37] There's so many possibilities.

[00:18:38] Let's start brainstorming.

[00:18:39] Yes yes yes because you don't even have to go out of the country necessarily.

[00:18:44] That's true.

[00:18:45] Some of these trips like Missouri you could do Laura Ingalls Wilder.

[00:18:49] There are so many places that you can even do purposeful trips maybe if you're just getting

[00:18:56] your feet wet.

[00:18:57] Well what I know that she all doesn't know yet is how tears are international connected

[00:19:02] to all this which was a perfect fit for you.

[00:19:05] Yeah.

[00:19:06] You actually have two full time jobs right now.

[00:19:08] I know.

[00:19:09] What's tears?

[00:19:10] Yes.

[00:19:11] Yes.

[00:19:12] The tears.

[00:19:13] The tears that international is a global Christian nonprofit that I also work with in a part

[00:19:17] time basis but I love this ministry.

[00:19:20] Yes.

[00:19:21] I do.

[00:19:22] Two years ago while I was in Serbia visiting my relatives and a woman who I'd known for

[00:19:28] many many years told me about tears.

[00:19:31] And so I just took a deep dive as soon as I learned who they are and what they're doing.

[00:19:36] It is it's really amazing.

[00:19:38] So basically what tears international is is it's a global nonprofit.

[00:19:42] It's a network of women leaders across 35 countries.

[00:19:47] Wow.

[00:19:48] All of these women love Jesus.

[00:19:50] They are indigenous and they are leaders who are making a difference in their communities

[00:19:57] for women.

[00:19:58] So they may be the founders and directors of nonprofits that are meeting a very particular

[00:20:05] need.

[00:20:06] They might be leaders in their churches.

[00:20:08] They might have started a social business where they're employing artisans, women

[00:20:12] who have been very marginalized.

[00:20:14] So what tears international does is groups all these women together in this large network

[00:20:20] and helps to resource them.

[00:20:22] So we do funding.

[00:20:24] We do all kinds of curriculum help.

[00:20:30] So we have an emerging leader curriculum program.

[00:20:32] We do the small business training.

[00:20:34] We do the training for artisan workshops so that we help them scale.

[00:20:40] If it let's say it's a handicraft shop in Ethiopia that's making leather, for example.

[00:20:45] We help them do that well so that they can not only sell in their local market but could

[00:20:53] even break into a global market that will allow them to then employ more women.

[00:21:00] And I've had a chance to travel with tears even before I started working with them and

[00:21:04] that was really life-changing for me.

[00:21:06] I went to India with them a couple of years ago and sitting in the home of a woman named

[00:21:12] Ronnie in Old Delhi, a woman who had been very marginalized.

[00:21:18] She'd come to faith and had been really hurt by her family who pushed her out.

[00:21:25] It's not okay to do that in India to leave Hinduism and to proclaim faithfulness to

[00:21:33] Jesus.

[00:21:34] And so she experienced a lot of hardship in that but by being a part of this community

[00:21:41] and she's doing the block printing and the leather handbags, she was brought into a community

[00:21:46] where she was able to earn a living, to be told that she is worthy, that she's loved

[00:21:52] by God, that she has a purpose, that she's capable, and to be able to see what that

[00:21:58] has done for her life and for her children and for the other people in her community.

[00:22:03] It's beautiful.

[00:22:04] And you can't even explain it how, you know, when we are in her home she taught us how

[00:22:12] to make chai tea.

[00:22:13] We sat on her bed and all she wanted to do is talk about our testimony and her love

[00:22:19] for Jesus and how he's changed her life.

[00:22:22] So I love what tears is doing because tears is coming alongside women leaders who are

[00:22:26] then changing the lives of women like Ronnie in their community.

[00:22:31] So it's a joy to be a part of this ministry.

[00:22:33] So I think too what you're saying is, you know, you're going with the intent to bless

[00:22:38] and to learn but you kind of wonder who gets more blessed?

[00:22:42] Yeah.

[00:22:43] I mean, you go in and these women are actually, yes, but I wondered though I think the

[00:22:49] women that you visit probably feel so blessed and so honored.

[00:22:54] And somebody knows me, I'm important.

[00:22:59] And then too on the other hand to be Americans that are actually kind and loving and coming

[00:23:06] in to understand it.

[00:23:08] It's always for representing our nation in a better light because we're not exploiting.

[00:23:15] So I love that the dual blessing.

[00:23:17] Yeah.

[00:23:18] It really is a dual blessing.

[00:23:19] It is.

[00:23:20] The stories of the women whose lives have been elevated and because tears as motto is when

[00:23:27] women rise, the world rises with them.

[00:23:30] And it's we've seen it over and over again that when women are invested in especially

[00:23:34] women who are in countries where they are told that they are not worthy, they are denied

[00:23:41] an education.

[00:23:43] You know, many of the women that tears works with are HIV positive.

[00:23:46] They've come out of brothels.

[00:23:47] They've had a really hard life, but we know that that's not God's heart for women.

[00:23:52] And so these communities come alongside these women and say God loves you.

[00:23:57] And he has a beautiful plan for your life.

[00:24:00] And so it's spiritual and it's also holistic because it's the helps and it's how their

[00:24:06] lives are going to be changed.

[00:24:07] I love what tears is doing and have begun supporting this ministry because of the change

[00:24:13] lives of the indigenous women and the way that they have a chance to grow, but they rise.

[00:24:20] But we're going to put all that in the show notes so the people know how to find tears

[00:24:24] in it.

[00:24:25] Thank you.

[00:24:26] And travel on purpose.

[00:24:27] And your life, Diane just to me says, you're just available to the Lord.

[00:24:33] Here I am.

[00:24:35] This is what I love to do travel.

[00:24:36] He says, oh, okay.

[00:24:37] Well then let's do something with that.

[00:24:39] And it's multiplied many times over.

[00:24:43] And I have just loved watching the more I read your newsletters and hear what God's doing.

[00:24:48] It's just so clear that his hands on your life, God bless you.

[00:24:52] Thank you.

[00:24:53] I'm just walking in step and trusting him for the next thing.

[00:24:58] So thank you so much.

[00:24:59] I appreciate it.

[00:25:00] Oh, I'm brimming with all sorts of inspirational ideas after this.

[00:25:04] But I like it.

[00:25:06] So thank you listeners for joining us too.

[00:25:08] And thank you Diane for coming.

[00:25:11] Thank you for listening to Women Worth Knowing with Cheryl Broderson and Robin Jones Gunn.

[00:25:15] For more information on Cheryl, visit Cherylbroderson.com or follow her on Instagram or Facebook.

[00:25:21] For more information on Robin, visit robingun.com or follow her on Instagram or Facebook.

[00:25:27] Join us each week for a lively conversation as we explore the lives of well-known and not

[00:25:32] so well-known historical and contemporary Christian women.

[00:25:35] If you think there is a Women Worth Knowing, we'd love to hear from you.

[00:25:39] Email us at wwwkactccm.com.

[00:25:44] We hope you've enjoyed today's episode.

[00:25:46] Make sure you rate us on your podcast app, subscribe and share it with a friend.

[00:25:50] Thank you again for listening to Women Worth Knowing with Cheryl Broderson and Robin Jones Gunn.

[00:25:56] Women Worth Knowing is a production of Calvary Chapel, Costa Mesa.