Jamell Meeks Part 1

[00:00:04] Welcome to Women Worth Knowing, the radio program and podcast hosted by Cheryl Brodersen and Robin Jones Gunn

[00:00:11] Hi, this is Cheryl Brodersen. I'm in studio with a friend of mine, Jamell Meeks.

[00:00:18] But I want to say this, Robin couldn't make it today and I could not miss the opportunity for you to meet Jamell.

[00:00:26] And I met her about a year ago, right?

[00:00:29] Yeah.

[00:00:30] And so it's so funny because I love to say this about you, Jamell.

[00:00:34] We met in Oxford, England. It sounds so posh, doesn't it?

[00:00:38] It is. And it was very posh.

[00:00:41] It was. It was so fun. It was Christmas time.

[00:00:43] Yeah.

[00:00:44] And we had so much fun. In fact, I have to say this, that I introduced Jamell to Bister Shopping Plaza,

[00:00:56] which is an outlet and it is the most posh outlet I have ever been to in my life.

[00:01:02] And we talk about it all the time.

[00:01:03] I know. It was an adventure.

[00:01:05] Yes.

[00:01:06] We had so much fun.

[00:01:08] So we want, I just want to acknowledge that we believe that every woman out there has a story.

[00:01:16] Every woman who walks with Jesus has an incredible story.

[00:01:19] And that incredible story that Jesus writes about you makes you a woman worth knowing.

[00:01:25] And we love hearing your stories.

[00:01:27] We love hearing how this podcast is ministered to you.

[00:01:31] And there's, this definitely holds true for you, Jamell, because I remember just talking to you in Oxford,

[00:01:40] just finding out a little bit about your life.

[00:01:42] And let me say this.

[00:01:43] You were born in Chicago, right?

[00:01:44] Yes.

[00:01:45] Okay. So I was born, obviously, in California, Santa Ana. We're very close to that.

[00:01:51] And I think that we are two different cultures.

[00:01:54] I mean, we are so far apart in culture.

[00:01:58] And we live in the same country, but what a different culture.

[00:02:02] So tell me a little bit about growing up in Chicago and what that culture was like.

[00:02:08] Well, thanks for having me.

[00:02:10] And, you know, Chicago is almost like its own little world.

[00:02:15] Yes, it is.

[00:02:16] Yes.

[00:02:16] You know, people have different ideas about Chicago.

[00:02:20] We have a rich history for a lot of reasons.

[00:02:24] Yep.

[00:02:24] Most of them not so good until we got to the Michael Jordan era.

[00:02:28] And then we became cool.

[00:02:29] But prior to that, it was mafia and then, you know, the ills and the trials of today's society with Chicago or the inner city.

[00:02:41] But I grew up, I had a wonderful childhood, grew up having fun, playing outside, being a girl that really enjoyed my surroundings.

[00:02:52] I didn't know that I was supposed to be feeling a certain way.

[00:02:59] You know, when you're home and you have your parents and your siblings, everything's great.

[00:03:03] That's all you need.

[00:03:04] That's all you really need.

[00:03:06] How many siblings do you have?

[00:03:07] I had one brother and my mom raised her baby sister after her mom passed.

[00:03:14] Oh, wow.

[00:03:14] And so I was kind of raised with sort of like a sister, but she was my aunt.

[00:03:19] And so it was interesting.

[00:03:22] So now you grew up, you weren't aware of any danger.

[00:03:26] Now, did your parents go to church at all?

[00:03:28] So that's funny.

[00:03:30] My earliest memory is sitting in church and I saw my dad in the pulpit in the choir area and he was singing.

[00:03:43] And that was it.

[00:03:44] I thought it was a dream my whole life until I was older.

[00:03:49] And I told my mother, I said, Mama, I used to have this crazy dream.

[00:03:52] Her dad was in his choir and she's like, you couldn't have been more than three years old.

[00:03:56] Oh, my goodness.

[00:03:57] And, you know, they never talked about it because they stopped going to church after that.

[00:04:02] I didn't go back to church until I was 16.

[00:04:05] Wow.

[00:04:06] Now, do you know the reason why?

[00:04:07] Can you say?

[00:04:08] There was some kind of church conflict.

[00:04:11] Oh, yeah.

[00:04:12] And they just decided they weren't going to go.

[00:04:15] I think, what do they call them?

[00:04:17] A split.

[00:04:18] Oh, yeah.

[00:04:18] Where one group here and one group there.

[00:04:20] And they were one of the families.

[00:04:23] We were one of the families that didn't survive it.

[00:04:26] Yeah, what a casualty.

[00:04:27] It is.

[00:04:28] And churches don't really think about it.

[00:04:30] They don't.

[00:04:31] You know, I was reading today about AI and I was thinking about how ache and sin affected all of Israel.

[00:04:37] Exactly.

[00:04:38] You know, we tend to think, oh, it's just my thing.

[00:04:41] But look, a casualty.

[00:04:42] Yeah.

[00:04:42] So then you didn't grow up.

[00:04:44] But your family, obviously, because of the church background, had a sense of morality.

[00:04:50] Absolutely.

[00:04:50] We prayed every night.

[00:04:52] We knew our nightly prayers.

[00:04:53] We said our grace of scripture before we ate every day.

[00:04:57] We just didn't go to church.

[00:05:00] And my very best friend who lived one house down from me, they went to church every Sunday, sang in the choir, everything.

[00:05:09] And one day her mom was like, well, you should go to church with us because we do everything together.

[00:05:15] So I went to church with them at 16.

[00:05:18] And that's when I accepted the Lord, got baptized and met my husband.

[00:05:24] So, okay.

[00:05:25] So how long after you received the Lord did you get baptized?

[00:05:29] For us in a traditional Baptist church, it was the very next first Sunday of the month.

[00:05:36] Yes.

[00:05:37] So you would get, you would join the church.

[00:05:39] And no matter when it was during the month, you waited until that first Sunday rolled around.

[00:05:44] And then all the candidates were baptized together.

[00:05:48] So did you have the, was the baptismal in the church?

[00:05:52] Did you have like a pool on the stage?

[00:05:54] It's so funny.

[00:05:55] No, it was a big tub, like a big, it looks like a trough.

[00:06:01] Right.

[00:06:01] It's a big metal tub.

[00:06:03] The church was an old, I don't know, some other kind of denomination where they didn't have that kind of stuff.

[00:06:10] Spring players.

[00:06:11] Yeah.

[00:06:11] And so we wound up, everyone was baptized in the church basement in that big tub.

[00:06:18] Oh, okay.

[00:06:18] It was actually, it was kind of cool.

[00:06:22] We were baptized in the church in our baptismal, which was like a little pool that was usually covered on the stage and then uncovered for the first Sunday of the month baptism.

[00:06:33] There you go.

[00:06:34] So I was baptized in the church, one of the very few that could say that because, you know, our church is kind of famous for these beach baptisms.

[00:06:42] Right.

[00:06:42] And so here I am.

[00:06:44] I'm authentic because I was actually baptized.

[00:06:47] Oh, my God.

[00:06:48] In the church.

[00:06:51] So after you received the Lord, you're baptized, what did your husband, I mean, sorry, what did your mom and dad say?

[00:06:59] So they didn't mind me going to church with my friend.

[00:07:03] And then they came to see me baptized.

[00:07:06] Oh, yeah.

[00:07:06] And eventually my whole family came.

[00:07:08] That's so good.

[00:07:09] Yeah.

[00:07:10] And so, yeah, because initially I was getting up alone.

[00:07:14] Yeah.

[00:07:14] Getting ready for church, leaving my entire family at home and going to church.

[00:07:19] So it was great seeing everyone.

[00:07:22] Oh, absolutely.

[00:07:23] Eventually coming.

[00:07:23] I kind of felt like Lydia.

[00:07:25] Yeah.

[00:07:25] Exactly.

[00:07:26] Yeah.

[00:07:27] Your whole household.

[00:07:28] Your whole household saved.

[00:07:30] Yes.

[00:07:30] Okay.

[00:07:31] So you met James.

[00:07:32] Was there an immediate attraction to James?

[00:07:35] James is your husband, just for the record.

[00:07:37] That is correct.

[00:07:38] You know, probably not as much.

[00:07:41] I mean, I was 16.

[00:07:42] Right.

[00:07:43] You know, and my best friend was introducing me to the other teenagers in the church.

[00:07:48] And so she was like, you know, here's James.

[00:07:51] And I was like, hi.

[00:07:53] And that was kind of it.

[00:07:55] And when I was baptized that day, they would give you what they call the right hand of fellowship.

[00:08:02] And so everybody would come up and shake your hand and sort of like a little get together sort of.

[00:08:06] He came over to me and asked me for my phone number.

[00:08:09] Oh, my goodness.

[00:08:10] And now that you're baptized, I can ask you out.

[00:08:12] I promise that's what he says.

[00:08:15] He tells everybody.

[00:08:16] I had to wait.

[00:08:17] I had to wait until she was baptized.

[00:08:19] A whole week.

[00:08:20] A whole week.

[00:08:21] But you told me there was a little bit of scandal with James as you were dating him.

[00:08:26] Always.

[00:08:27] He had.

[00:08:28] Well, he was popular.

[00:08:29] I mean, he was a good, smooth talker.

[00:08:32] And he was good looking.

[00:08:33] I saw the picture.

[00:08:34] Good looking.

[00:08:34] And so there were a couple of other young ladies who kind of thought they were in the running.

[00:08:39] And so he would, you know, talk over here with this one and talk over there with that one.

[00:08:45] And we were at a youth skating event.

[00:08:48] And so he skates with this one.

[00:08:50] He skates.

[00:08:51] Then he comes over and he skates with me.

[00:08:53] And I said, I'm not doing this.

[00:08:55] Good for you.

[00:08:55] You're going to have to make a decision.

[00:08:57] Either we're going to skate, which means, you know, you can't be going out and doing this stuff with these other girls.

[00:09:03] And he was like, oh, okay.

[00:09:05] Well, it'll be you.

[00:09:08] Wow.

[00:09:09] Right then and there.

[00:09:10] So since you were 16 years old.

[00:09:13] Yeah.

[00:09:14] There's.

[00:09:14] Was there ever anybody else?

[00:09:16] Nope.

[00:09:17] No other.

[00:09:18] My first boyfriend, the first person I ever gave my phone number to.

[00:09:22] My mom's rule was you had to be 16.

[00:09:25] Yeah.

[00:09:26] We had the same rule.

[00:09:27] Same rule.

[00:09:27] You had to be 16.

[00:09:29] So he was the first person.

[00:09:30] And so I get teased sometime when I tell that story.

[00:09:34] How could you know?

[00:09:35] You didn't have any experience.

[00:09:36] And I say sometimes testing the water can be hurtful.

[00:09:40] Exactly.

[00:09:41] And, you know, when the Lord's in it, it makes such a difference.

[00:09:45] So now I know James has gone on to be a pastor and I want to talk about that later.

[00:09:51] But did you see spirituality in him at 16?

[00:09:55] I mean, you're a new believer.

[00:09:56] And I mean, we're kind of goofy when we're in our teens, even if we do know Jesus.

[00:10:01] We're a little goofy.

[00:10:02] Yes.

[00:10:02] I did not know.

[00:10:04] I didn't see a halo over his head.

[00:10:07] There wasn't one there.

[00:10:08] And I had no idea because I was new to being converted as well.

[00:10:15] So I didn't know what to expect.

[00:10:17] So we would go out and he would get his dad's car and pick me up and we would go out and stuff like that.

[00:10:26] But right after we started dating, we went to the drive-in and I was so excited.

[00:10:33] I'm like, oh, I'm going to the drive-in.

[00:10:36] I have a boyfriend.

[00:10:36] This is going to be great.

[00:10:38] I'll never forget it.

[00:10:39] The movie was Grease.

[00:10:40] Mm-hmm.

[00:10:41] Oh, yeah.

[00:10:42] I remember that.

[00:10:43] Olivia Newton's channel up there.

[00:10:44] She's going, you're the one that I want.

[00:10:46] Ooh, ooh, ooh.

[00:10:47] And I'm like, yes, yes, this is perfect.

[00:10:49] And I look over at him looking for us to have a moment.

[00:10:53] Right.

[00:10:53] And tears are coming down.

[00:10:56] And I'm going, oh, my gosh, what is going on?

[00:10:59] Right.

[00:10:59] And he says, I need to tell you something.

[00:11:01] I'm like, oh, my gosh.

[00:11:03] Yeah.

[00:11:03] And he says, I've been called to preach.

[00:11:07] Wow.

[00:11:09] I'm going, oh, Lord.

[00:11:12] And me, give me a break, people.

[00:11:15] I'm 16.

[00:11:15] I look at him and I say, what does this mean?

[00:11:18] Yeah.

[00:11:18] And you're brand new to Jesus.

[00:11:20] I have no idea.

[00:11:21] Yeah.

[00:11:22] And the first words out of my mouth were not spiritual.

[00:11:26] I said, does this mean we can't kiss anymore?

[00:11:30] Yeah.

[00:11:30] No more necking?

[00:11:31] What is this?

[00:11:32] Yeah.

[00:11:33] And so he was like, he just skipped over that totally and just started telling me about the call on his life.

[00:11:40] Wow.

[00:11:40] And I got to understand.

[00:11:42] But to me, that young, only preachers I knew were old guys.

[00:11:49] And I didn't know any teen preachers.

[00:11:51] And I didn't know what that meant at all.

[00:11:54] So it was quite a journey for me.

[00:11:56] Wow.

[00:11:57] And, you know, to think about this, too, that like he knew at 16, that that was what, that God had already placed his hand on him.

[00:12:09] Yeah.

[00:12:09] And this was what he was going to do.

[00:12:11] I don't know how many, maybe Spurgeon knew.

[00:12:14] Exactly.

[00:12:15] I think my dad's call came at like 18 at a camp.

[00:12:18] Yeah.

[00:12:19] But to be 16.

[00:12:21] Yeah.

[00:12:21] And to know.

[00:12:23] Yeah.

[00:12:23] And to be that committed that you've got a girl that you are so attracted to and you're saying, I'm going to resist because we, I'm called.

[00:12:33] That's amazing.

[00:12:34] I mean, that's like, that's the thing that testimonies are made of.

[00:12:37] It's unheard of.

[00:12:38] Yes.

[00:12:39] He would say things to me like, I'm not dating to date.

[00:12:43] I'm dating for marriage.

[00:12:44] And you're 16.

[00:12:45] You're like, oh.

[00:12:47] I'm like, okay.

[00:12:49] Wow.

[00:12:50] Your parents must have adored him.

[00:12:51] They did.

[00:12:52] They did.

[00:12:53] Because that kind of commitment and that kind of respect.

[00:12:57] Yeah.

[00:12:58] Is really noble.

[00:13:00] And what an example.

[00:13:02] It was.

[00:13:03] And it was so rare because my household was totally different.

[00:13:06] His mom and dad, I mean, his dad was a deacon in the church.

[00:13:10] His mom served on the deaconess board and they did everything.

[00:13:15] He grew up literally in the church.

[00:13:17] He was baptized at six years old.

[00:13:19] Right.

[00:13:20] My family was totally the opposite.

[00:13:22] We had parties every weekend and everybody came over to our house.

[00:13:26] So when I started dating him and he started preaching and he would come pick me up on the weekend, my mother would have me dressed and at the front door.

[00:13:35] She didn't want him to come in the house to see what was going on.

[00:13:40] What happened Saturday night.

[00:13:41] Exactly.

[00:13:41] She literally was pushing me out the door.

[00:13:44] Okay.

[00:13:45] See you guys later.

[00:13:46] So how old were you when you first heard him preach?

[00:13:51] 17.

[00:13:52] 17.

[00:13:52] He preached at 17 and went off to college.

[00:13:57] Wow.

[00:13:58] That night.

[00:13:59] Oh my goodness.

[00:13:59] The first sermon.

[00:14:01] And then that night he went off to college.

[00:14:02] Now, I remember my mom saying one of the things that really attracted her to my father, mind you, they dated for six weeks and then got married.

[00:14:10] I love it.

[00:14:11] I know.

[00:14:11] So they're in the car and she'd never met a man like him, but he began to tell her what he was going to preach on Sunday.

[00:14:18] And that was what, because he told her, I think it was the first day and I'm going to marry you.

[00:14:23] And she's like, right.

[00:14:24] I don't think so.

[00:14:25] And she said, but then.

[00:14:27] The same thing.

[00:14:28] Yeah.

[00:14:28] Well, you know, he's like, you're going to be my wife.

[00:14:31] I'm like, get out of here.

[00:14:32] And you're 16.

[00:14:33] Yes.

[00:14:33] But yeah, but no, but it was the sermon.

[00:14:36] She said like three days later, he said, I'm preaching this Sunday.

[00:14:40] I'd like you to go with me.

[00:14:40] And this is what I'm going to say.

[00:14:43] This is what the Lord laid on my heart.

[00:14:44] And she's like, okay, I think I've changed my mind.

[00:14:47] I think I'm interested.

[00:14:48] I think I want to pursue this.

[00:14:50] So there's that spiritual component when you see Jesus in somebody.

[00:14:55] So do you remember what the first sermon was you heard?

[00:14:58] I've come that you might have joy.

[00:15:00] Oh, wow.

[00:15:00] So he did.

[00:15:01] That's a great text.

[00:15:02] John Tintin.

[00:15:03] Yeah.

[00:15:03] And that was his first sermon.

[00:15:06] Wow.

[00:15:07] And so now were you warming up to the idea at all of like, okay, we're going to be married?

[00:15:12] So I had no idea of what that looked like or what that meant.

[00:15:18] I knew I wanted to go to school.

[00:15:21] It was imperative to my family.

[00:15:23] My mom and dad had worked really hard to make sure that that happened.

[00:15:28] So college was not something that we had to do it.

[00:15:32] Optional, yeah.

[00:15:33] Yeah.

[00:15:33] We had to go.

[00:15:34] Yeah.

[00:15:34] So we knew that was going to happen.

[00:15:36] And he did, too, because he wanted to go so he could learn.

[00:15:38] So he went away to Dallas.

[00:15:41] Oh, that's a long way.

[00:15:42] Yeah.

[00:15:43] And I stayed in Chicago.

[00:15:44] My father was like, you're not going anywhere.

[00:15:47] So we both were in school and that long distance thing.

[00:15:52] And then shortly after, the next year, I joined him in Dallas.

[00:15:56] And, you know, that's really a test to do the distance.

[00:15:59] So was it four years of distance?

[00:16:01] No, one.

[00:16:02] One year.

[00:16:03] The next year I transferred there.

[00:16:04] Oh.

[00:16:05] Because my mom, my mom, which I was so surprised, she said, if you don't go, you guys won't make it.

[00:16:10] Wow.

[00:16:11] And she wanted this one.

[00:16:12] She did.

[00:16:13] She wanted this one for you.

[00:16:15] So what was life like in Dallas?

[00:16:17] I mean, because that's a different culture.

[00:16:19] It was.

[00:16:20] First of all, it was super hot.

[00:16:22] Oh, yeah.

[00:16:22] Super hot.

[00:16:23] I had never been away from home.

[00:16:25] Right.

[00:16:26] And there I was in this dorm with all these girls from everywhere.

[00:16:30] And that was a big, oh.

[00:16:33] Oh, I hate dorm life.

[00:16:34] I did it one year.

[00:16:35] It was like, ah.

[00:16:36] It was horrid.

[00:16:37] It's so bad.

[00:16:38] And then, you know, just navigating how to present yourself.

[00:16:45] You didn't have that security around you, a family, and already friends.

[00:16:50] You had to make friends.

[00:16:51] You're trying to figure out.

[00:16:52] So he and I really solidified the relationship at that point because we had each other.

[00:16:58] But I always wanted to be a good student.

[00:17:01] So I was doing that.

[00:17:02] When I got there, I remember asking him, I was like, where's the library?

[00:17:07] And he said, I think it's over there.

[00:17:08] So he had never been a whole year.

[00:17:11] And he had no books.

[00:17:14] I'm like, how are you studying?

[00:17:16] When someone finishes their work, I go and borrow their book.

[00:17:19] I said, okay.

[00:17:20] Now you know what you're getting into.

[00:17:22] Let's go purchase your books.

[00:17:24] Let's pick some time for the library.

[00:17:27] So it was that.

[00:17:28] So we had really balanced each other out.

[00:17:30] He gave me fun.

[00:17:32] I gave him more structure.

[00:17:33] And you know, that's kind of what he was saying because he spoke the other day at a panel and a discussion talking about marriage that you marry the opposite.

[00:17:41] And we need that because that makes complimentary circles so that we're a whole instead of half.

[00:17:49] And I loved it when he said it would be so boring if I was married to myself.

[00:17:53] I mean, you know, as much as you love yourself, you need a break.

[00:17:56] Oh, you do.

[00:17:57] Yeah.

[00:17:57] And he'd never have a library.

[00:17:59] No.

[00:18:00] He'd always be borrowing.

[00:18:02] So I wanted to say I have to say this about dorm life.

[00:18:08] You know, now all the rooms are like have their own bathroom.

[00:18:11] They're like full on suite, like at all these colleges.

[00:18:14] But not in our time.

[00:18:16] No.

[00:18:17] It was down the hall.

[00:18:18] You suffered.

[00:18:19] It was so bad.

[00:18:20] It was like a public restroom constantly.

[00:18:22] Yes.

[00:18:23] And then also you're in charge of cleaning it.

[00:18:24] I don't know if you were, but we were.

[00:18:27] And it was just.

[00:18:28] And then you always had the one girl who did not pull her share.

[00:18:30] Oh, yeah.

[00:18:31] Or two.

[00:18:32] Right?

[00:18:32] Yes.

[00:18:33] And you all would try to say, what are we going to do to her?

[00:18:36] Yes.

[00:18:37] Exactly.

[00:18:38] Or, you know, during my time, bulimia.

[00:18:40] So when you're cleaning up those bathrooms, it was just awful.

[00:18:43] Yeah.

[00:18:44] It was so awful.

[00:18:45] Sorry.

[00:18:45] Still have trauma.

[00:18:47] That's it.

[00:18:47] PTSD from my.

[00:18:49] And I only went one year and I said, you know what?

[00:18:51] I'm going to live with my parents.

[00:18:52] And I'm going to just have mom wash my clothes.

[00:18:55] There you go.

[00:18:55] So spoiled.

[00:18:57] So smart.

[00:18:57] Yes.

[00:18:58] Thank you.

[00:18:59] Thank you.

[00:18:59] So how long after college did you guys get married?

[00:19:03] I graduated in December, the beginning of December, and we were married Christmas Day.

[00:19:09] Oh, wow.

[00:19:10] 79.

[00:19:10] Yeah.

[00:19:11] You didn't waste any time.

[00:19:12] No.

[00:19:12] He was already out.

[00:19:14] Yeah.

[00:19:14] He was in grad school and then he was called to a church.

[00:19:18] So he was back in Chicago.

[00:19:19] He started pastoring in September.

[00:19:22] So I'm finishing up in Dallas.

[00:19:25] And I had so many credits and extra that I could finish in December.

[00:19:29] So I was like, okay, I'm out of here.

[00:19:31] Yeah.

[00:19:31] And went back home.

[00:19:32] Now, was there a formal proposal or was it just like you just knew that we were getting married?

[00:19:38] It was a formal proposal.

[00:19:39] I have to hear this story.

[00:19:40] He's so dramatic.

[00:19:42] He loves theater.

[00:19:44] So he tells me, put on your best outfit.

[00:19:47] Now, I'm still in school.

[00:19:48] He's in school.

[00:19:49] He comes to pick me up to go out to dinner.

[00:19:52] Put on your best outfit.

[00:19:53] I'm going to take you to a nice restaurant.

[00:19:55] I'm like, oh, boy, this is great.

[00:19:57] What a treat.

[00:19:58] College student, you know, going out to dinner.

[00:20:00] So I put on my best and only dress.

[00:20:03] We go downtown Dallas.

[00:20:05] And there was a new restaurant there.

[00:20:08] They call it, at that time, they called it the Electric Moon.

[00:20:12] It's Lowe's Anatol, I think is the name of it.

[00:20:14] But it's a round ball that revolves.

[00:20:17] And it had just opened and everybody was going down there.

[00:20:20] So that's where he took me.

[00:20:22] I was so impressed.

[00:20:23] Oh, yeah.

[00:20:23] Just sitting at the table.

[00:20:25] The waitress brings our menus.

[00:20:28] And he sees the price of everything.

[00:20:32] He had no idea how much this was going to cost.

[00:20:35] So he looks at me and he says, today is my fast day.

[00:20:40] But you order whatever you want.

[00:20:44] I promise this is what he said to me.

[00:20:47] And the waitress is looking at us like, what is going on?

[00:20:53] So I ordered whatever.

[00:20:55] And we're eating and everything.

[00:20:57] And it's just about time for dessert.

[00:20:59] And he puts this box on the table.

[00:21:03] And so I'm having my moment.

[00:21:06] I'm going, oh, my gosh.

[00:21:07] Oh, really?

[00:21:08] I'm just doing all to do.

[00:21:09] And the waitress comes over.

[00:21:11] She's like, open it already.

[00:21:14] I'm like, will you get out of this?

[00:21:16] This is my moment.

[00:21:19] So everybody's looking.

[00:21:20] You know, it's exciting.

[00:21:22] So that's how we.

[00:21:23] Did he get down on a knee?

[00:21:25] He did not in the restaurant.

[00:21:27] He did not get on the knee.

[00:21:28] But you know what?

[00:21:29] It's more common now.

[00:21:31] It is.

[00:21:32] I mean, I don't remember anyone actually taking a knee.

[00:21:35] Yeah.

[00:21:36] In our time, except for to pray.

[00:21:39] Right.

[00:21:39] Right.

[00:21:40] So now he was in.

[00:21:42] So how did you go on a honeymoon or did you start right into the ministry?

[00:21:47] Right into ministry.

[00:21:48] That we were married on that Saturday.

[00:21:50] He preached that Sunday.

[00:21:51] We never.

[00:21:52] Oh, my goodness.

[00:21:53] Never took a break.

[00:21:54] Oh, my goodness.

[00:21:55] OK.

[00:21:55] Now, was this a church he started or a church he took over?

[00:21:58] This is a church he took over.

[00:22:00] OK.

[00:22:00] It was a 95 year old church.

[00:22:03] Wow.

[00:22:03] And it's what we used to call a silk stocking church.

[00:22:07] OK.

[00:22:08] And that means.

[00:22:08] That means that they had enough money to buy real silk stockings.

[00:22:13] Oh, wow.

[00:22:14] So posh.

[00:22:15] We would call it posh.

[00:22:16] Yeah.

[00:22:16] Yes.

[00:22:17] We would call it silk stockings because other stockings are more nylon.

[00:22:21] Yes.

[00:22:21] And he's what?

[00:22:22] Twenty.

[00:22:23] Twenty.

[00:22:24] One.

[00:22:24] Twenty-three.

[00:22:25] Twenty-three.

[00:22:26] And he's got this very nice church.

[00:22:29] Old church.

[00:22:30] And he's this young, fiery guy preaching.

[00:22:34] And people are joining.

[00:22:36] And it's just exciting.

[00:22:37] Ministry is just going well.

[00:22:39] And they decided they didn't want that.

[00:22:43] And so we were asked to move on.

[00:22:47] And we did.

[00:22:48] Wow.

[00:22:48] And that's when he started Salem.

[00:22:50] He was 25.

[00:22:52] Twenty-five.

[00:22:52] Wow.

[00:22:53] So he takes this very...

[00:22:55] Now, did he campaign?

[00:22:57] You know, in my day, in our denomination, you would campaign for a church.

[00:23:01] In fact, my dad campaigned for Calvary Chapel Costa Mesa.

[00:23:05] People are always like, oh, the founder.

[00:23:07] It's like, he's not the founder.

[00:23:10] He campaigned.

[00:23:11] And I think the competition was like 25 other, you know, pastors came through and campaigned to be the pastor of this church.

[00:23:20] It's the weirdest story on that as well.

[00:23:22] I mean, it's a God thing.

[00:23:23] When you look back on it, you know it.

[00:23:25] So his best, one of his best friends from college was in that, for the terminology and in that day, candidating.

[00:23:34] Yep.

[00:23:34] The church was vacant.

[00:23:35] Yep.

[00:23:36] So this particular Sunday, they had invited his friend back to preach again.

[00:23:41] It was like his third time going there.

[00:23:43] He went to preach for another church and sent my husband to stand in for him.

[00:23:47] That is a God story.

[00:23:49] Yes.

[00:23:49] And my husband stood in for him and they invited him back.

[00:23:54] And then when it was time to vote on the candidates, they added my husband's name to the list.

[00:24:00] Wow.

[00:24:00] And he won.

[00:24:02] You know what's great about that?

[00:24:03] Even though they, you know, didn't want the fire and the enthusiasm and maybe even the youth, right?

[00:24:10] Later on, it gave James that chance to preach and the discipline of knowing what it is to prepare sermons.

[00:24:19] Absolutely.

[00:24:19] And preach.

[00:24:20] And even, you know, what do they say?

[00:24:22] I mean, sometimes it's best to suffer the rejection first because then you get to this place like, I just belong to Jesus.

[00:24:30] Absolutely.

[00:24:30] I'm just going to serve him.

[00:24:32] Yeah.

[00:24:33] So this—

[00:24:34] We never would have started Salem.

[00:24:36] Yeah.

[00:24:36] We never would have launched out and done that.

[00:24:39] And the kind of ministry he was going to have didn't fit in the mold of that church.

[00:24:46] But just as you said, it was great training ground.

[00:24:49] It was.

[00:24:50] All right.

[00:24:50] So that's part one.

[00:24:51] Yeah.

[00:24:51] I can't wait to talk about part two and talk about Salem, where you got the name, what God has done since then.

[00:24:58] Because you were in Salem how many years?

[00:25:00] 38.

[00:25:00] 38.

[00:25:01] So we got 38 years to catch up on in part two.

[00:25:04] Thank you for joining us for part one.

[00:25:06] Come back, come back, come back.

[00:25:07] Thank you for listening to Women Worth Knowing with Cheryl Broderson and Robin Jones-Gunn.

[00:25:14] For more information on Cheryl, visit CherylBroderson.com or follow her on Instagram or Facebook.

[00:25:20] For more information on Robin, visit RobinGunn.com or follow her on Instagram or Facebook.

[00:25:26] Join us each week for a lively conversation as we explore the lives of well-known and not-so-well-known historical and contemporary Christian women.

[00:25:34] If you think there is a woman worth knowing, we'd love to hear from you.

[00:25:38] Email us at WWK at CCCM.com.

[00:25:43] We hope you've enjoyed today's episode.

[00:25:45] Make sure you rate us on your podcast app, subscribe, and share it with a friend.

[00:25:50] Thank you again for listening to Women Worth Knowing with Cheryl Broderson and Robin Jones-Gunn.

[00:25:55] Women Worth Knowing is a production of Calvary Chapel Costa Mesa.