Pam Wing grew up in an atheistic home in Berkley, California. Though her father disparaged any talk of Jesus in their house, he was nevertheless a good father and encouraged Pam in her gift of music, and especially in her talent as harpist. Pam was broken hearted after her father died when she was 13. For a time, she thought she might give up the harp, but instead she found her only solace in playing. During her college years, Pam was hit with some severe trauma that she could not overcome. Having not slept for weeks, she called out to God to, if he was real, give her peace. That was the first night that Pam slept soundly in months. The next day, at her college campus she went in search of God. Having unsuccessfully sought for him through some of her dorm mates, she was approached by some Christian kids from Intervarsity Fellowship. This is how Pam came to find Jesus and receive Him into her heart. What followed was a journey of exciting discovery that Pam shares on the episodes. Join us and hear Pam talk about coming to know Jesus, and then learning of a rich and vast Christian heritage that was hidden from her for years.
[00:00:04] Welcome to Women Worth Knowing, the radio program and podcast hosted by Cheryl Brodersen and Robin Jones Gunn
[00:00:11] Okay, so every now and then Cheryl and I have someone we're really excited about bringing to you because it's a discovery.
[00:00:19] That's what we love about these women that we talk about, that we discover about their lives and what's happening with them.
[00:00:26] And so Cheryl called me and said, I have discovered a woman that has to come in studio because she has had a life of discovery.
[00:00:34] And so it's a double blessing. Tell us, Cheryl, all about Pam.
[00:00:38] It is. Well, Pam and I have been friends for years, but I had no idea of the background.
[00:00:45] And one day she wrote me, I think it was a text, and said, actually, I have this aunt that you might be interested in talking about.
[00:00:54] And I said, well, she gave me a book and I lost it.
[00:00:57] So I said, you know, maybe you'd like to come in and talk about your aunt since I lost the book.
[00:01:02] She's like, well, let me see if I can find another one of those books.
[00:01:05] And so she had to go on a search to find another of those books.
[00:01:08] And periodically I find the book and go, this is the book, and then lose it.
[00:01:13] But there's some great things that you need to know about Pam.
[00:01:16] So first of all, Pam is married to Lou Wing.
[00:01:19] And how long have you been married?
[00:01:21] 42 years.
[00:01:22] 42 years.
[00:01:23] Right there.
[00:01:23] So that's amazing.
[00:01:24] But the other thing about Pam is that she plays a particular instrument.
[00:01:32] I heard about this.
[00:01:33] Yes.
[00:01:33] I'm demonstrating.
[00:01:35] If you're watching the video, I'm not demonstrating accurately.
[00:01:37] It's a harp.
[00:01:38] The same that will be playing in heaven.
[00:01:40] So we'll join.
[00:01:41] She'll probably lead us.
[00:01:42] You're sitting ahead of us.
[00:01:43] Yes.
[00:01:43] There'll be a line for lessons.
[00:01:45] Yes.
[00:01:46] Okay.
[00:01:46] And I'll take them, definitely.
[00:01:48] Because then I think I'll be able to do it.
[00:01:50] You know.
[00:01:51] So, Pam, I wanted to start, before we get into the discovery, I wanted to start with
[00:01:57] your testimony, because I think that's what makes the story of your aunt that we will
[00:02:03] get to even more amazing.
[00:02:07] The fact that you grew up in this, not even irreligious, but anti-religious home.
[00:02:15] So tell us a little bit about the home you grew up in.
[00:02:17] And welcome, Pam.
[00:02:18] Yes.
[00:02:18] So glad you're here.
[00:02:19] Thank you.
[00:02:19] And I'm just so blessed to be doing this.
[00:02:22] I just, and to God be the glory.
[00:02:24] Great things he has done.
[00:02:26] Absolutely.
[00:02:27] Okay.
[00:02:27] So I grew up, I was born in Berkeley.
[00:02:30] So that says a lot right there, right?
[00:02:32] Right.
[00:02:33] In the, right before the sixties, right?
[00:02:36] So very tumultuous.
[00:02:38] My parents had both left their churches.
[00:02:41] My dad was brought up Catholic, Irish Catholic, didn't like the guilt.
[00:02:44] My mom actually did some things, but left.
[00:02:50] It was called the community church.
[00:02:53] And her story is a different one.
[00:02:56] But she went to church.
[00:02:58] She went to Sunday school.
[00:02:59] She knew some of John 3, 16, but not all of it.
[00:03:04] The part about love.
[00:03:05] Anyway.
[00:03:08] And the atmosphere in Berkeley was very anti-Christian.
[00:03:13] It was pretty, it was also anti-religion, period.
[00:03:17] I mean, you have to remember there was, everybody was out on the street.
[00:03:23] We had the Hare Krishnas.
[00:03:24] We had the, everybody that would accost you as you walked down.
[00:03:29] Children of God.
[00:03:30] Yep.
[00:03:30] Everybody.
[00:03:31] And so we were really taught to stay away from Christians because they were particularly annoying.
[00:03:39] So I just, Merilee, I went on my way.
[00:03:42] Now you guys talk about playing the harp.
[00:03:43] The harp became the central part of my life kind of early.
[00:03:50] I heard it in the music of the ballet Tchaikovsky.
[00:03:54] And I went, what's that instrument?
[00:03:55] I got to do that.
[00:03:57] Okay.
[00:03:57] Very complicated instrument.
[00:03:59] Usually start with piano.
[00:04:01] So started piano, tried clarinet, tried banjo for about two months.
[00:04:06] And then I was just so insistent to start the harp.
[00:04:10] And you are at this point, how old?
[00:04:13] At that point, I'm about 11 or 12, right?
[00:04:16] And so at 12, at Christmas, I said, excuse me, I just want to play the harp.
[00:04:23] I don't want anything but to play the harp.
[00:04:26] After Christmas, I folded my arms and said, well, what about the harp?
[00:04:30] And it's complicated.
[00:04:32] Okay.
[00:04:33] We're talking 1969 probably.
[00:04:36] It was very complicated to find a harp.
[00:04:38] But my father had done some incredible research.
[00:04:40] He was a professor at UC Berkeley.
[00:04:43] And there was music in the family.
[00:04:49] So he had a great aunt who was a concert pianist.
[00:04:53] And so he asked her.
[00:04:55] And she knew that Ann Adams was the harpist at the San Francisco Symphony.
[00:05:01] So somehow my dad got a hold of it.
[00:05:03] And they said, well, she's very small.
[00:05:06] And you're going to have to find a small harp.
[00:05:08] I'm not a tall person, by the way.
[00:05:11] In case you can't see this.
[00:05:12] Right.
[00:05:13] Yes.
[00:05:13] And so I just think it's amazing.
[00:05:17] My family did not know the Lord.
[00:05:19] But they found a harp.
[00:05:21] They found a harp teacher.
[00:05:22] I started playing.
[00:05:25] On and off, I took lessons.
[00:05:27] Okay.
[00:05:28] All this time, there is no Jesus in my life.
[00:05:31] There is no.
[00:05:32] I think we read the story of Luke once.
[00:05:36] And I can remember sometime in high school.
[00:05:40] Okay.
[00:05:40] It was junior high.
[00:05:41] The sad part starts in 71.
[00:05:47] My father came down with leukemia.
[00:05:52] So I just started playing the harp.
[00:05:55] He just started making this all happen.
[00:05:56] He started having strokes.
[00:05:59] And I was like, oh, my God.
[00:05:59] Now, part that I left out, when I was young, I had a lot of surgeries.
[00:06:04] I probably spent 20% of my early childhood in body casts and things like that.
[00:06:08] So it was normal for us to be around the hospital.
[00:06:11] It was normal to go in the hospital and come out.
[00:06:15] And go in the hospital and come out.
[00:06:16] So my dad starts going to the hospital.
[00:06:18] And I'm like, well, he's going to come out.
[00:06:20] Yeah.
[00:06:21] And in these days, in 71, you didn't talk about people dying.
[00:06:25] You kept everything from your children.
[00:06:28] And when he passed away, my world crumbled.
[00:06:33] And I just didn't know what to do.
[00:06:36] And it was bad.
[00:06:38] I was one of four.
[00:06:40] I have an older sister, an identical twin sister.
[00:06:43] And my little brother and my dad was only 46 years old.
[00:06:47] And it was fast and furious.
[00:06:50] And they had told us very confidently that there is no heaven.
[00:06:56] That when you're gone, you're gone.
[00:06:59] And for anybody who's out there, I know that sadness when you've lost somebody.
[00:07:05] Anybody who has grown up without the hope of heaven, I hope you're listening.
[00:07:11] There is a heaven.
[00:07:13] Yes.
[00:07:14] Yes.
[00:07:16] And so, but music kind of links back to music.
[00:07:21] Music was like my one happy place.
[00:07:24] I could go play the harp and I could get away from everything else.
[00:07:28] And I got really involved with the music at school.
[00:07:31] I did.
[00:07:32] We had a wonderful program.
[00:07:34] It's just how I spent every waking hour.
[00:07:37] Not so much on the academics, but in the music, right?
[00:07:41] And in the drama and everything.
[00:07:44] And then I went off to college to be a music major.
[00:07:51] And that was really hard.
[00:07:53] I was at San Francisco State, which was a crazy place, right?
[00:07:58] There was, now here come the cults again.
[00:08:00] There's the Moonies.
[00:08:03] There's every strange thing going on.
[00:08:06] You've got to remember these are the years when Patty Hearst had been kidnapped.
[00:08:10] There were cults everywhere.
[00:08:12] There was the Jim Jones thing going on.
[00:08:15] And it was terrifying at the campus.
[00:08:18] And, but I was really seeking God because the spring before I went, my grandmother had passed away.
[00:08:26] And it just brought me right back to the beginning.
[00:08:29] And I was just like, okay, my dad was 46.
[00:08:33] My mom is 86.
[00:08:35] My grandmother's 86.
[00:08:37] And apparently there's no reason to live.
[00:08:40] There's nowhere to go.
[00:08:42] And I went through a time where I said, I mean, I was just lost.
[00:08:47] I was home alone.
[00:08:49] I can remember I had my arm around my dog.
[00:08:52] And I'm listening to albums.
[00:08:53] And on the radio is the stories of people that believed in God.
[00:08:57] George Harrison.
[00:08:59] We all know that's not the same Lord.
[00:09:02] And then there was a Stevie Wonder album about Go Talk to Dr. God.
[00:09:07] And I'm like, oh gosh, some people believe God's real.
[00:09:09] And I reached out to God from nowhere with nothing.
[00:09:13] I knew there wasn't a single person I knew who knew who God was and who could help me at that moment.
[00:09:23] I was really considering taking my life.
[00:09:26] And I said, God, if you exist, I just have to know.
[00:09:31] And I had been crying myself to sleep for weeks.
[00:09:35] And I woke up the next day and I went, oh, there's a God.
[00:09:40] I love it.
[00:09:41] I love it.
[00:09:41] I was just, oh my gosh.
[00:09:43] Yeah.
[00:09:43] There's a God.
[00:09:45] Who is he?
[00:09:46] So I asked God to reveal himself to me.
[00:09:50] I said, tell me who you are.
[00:09:52] And I began asking everybody I knew.
[00:09:56] I went off to be a recreation leader at a camp.
[00:09:58] I asked them.
[00:09:59] And they were like, well, you don't know God?
[00:10:01] And then I went on to the dorms.
[00:10:04] And I was like, well, who, do you know who God is?
[00:10:07] And they go, yeah, my dad's a pastor.
[00:10:09] They had no answers.
[00:10:11] Or I was brought up Jewish or I went to Catholic school.
[00:10:13] Or no, I don't believe in any of that stuff.
[00:10:16] But there's this wonderful group of people who had answers for me.
[00:10:21] And they were from InterVarsity Christian Fellowship.
[00:10:24] Awesome.
[00:10:25] They're the best.
[00:10:27] And I became the prayer project of a group of them.
[00:10:33] No, I just love this.
[00:10:35] This part is just, it makes me cry every time.
[00:10:38] But go ahead.
[00:10:39] So they would meet me at the cafeteria.
[00:10:42] They would find me and talk to me and answer all my questions.
[00:10:47] And there was just an authority compared to everybody else who was like, I don't know.
[00:10:54] My parents believe this.
[00:10:56] I don't know.
[00:10:57] They just like knew that they knew that they knew.
[00:11:00] And somebody took me to church.
[00:11:04] There's this great little Baptist church walking distance from the dorms.
[00:11:08] And I sat there.
[00:11:10] And I felt like I heard God.
[00:11:14] I know I wept the whole time.
[00:11:17] I was so embarrassed.
[00:11:18] I was so embarrassed.
[00:11:20] I remember at that point, the pastor, after everything was over, the pastor comes and stands
[00:11:27] at the door to say goodbye to everyone as they leave the church.
[00:11:31] And I walk up to him, wiping away my tears and go, I'll be back.
[00:11:35] You know, I promise I'll be back.
[00:11:39] And it turns out that the college pastor was the regional director for InterVarsity.
[00:11:45] So immediately I find out about what is church culture, something called Sunday school.
[00:11:52] And the college group has Sunday school.
[00:11:54] And then you go to church.
[00:11:56] And I'm like, OK, how do I do this?
[00:11:59] Wow, this is really interesting.
[00:12:00] And I'm learning.
[00:12:02] I mean, I don't have a Bible, whatever they're saying.
[00:12:05] I mean, I was sort of it was like, whatever you say goes.
[00:12:09] But got me into trouble later.
[00:12:15] Then they said, well, we're going on a retreat.
[00:12:18] And I was, oh, that sounds like good.
[00:12:20] Kind of like campfire girls or something.
[00:12:23] That would be fun.
[00:12:24] You know, I love high school groups.
[00:12:26] And so they said, I said, well, how much does it cost?
[00:12:30] I was on a really tight budget.
[00:12:34] And I said, well, $20.
[00:12:36] Wow.
[00:12:37] And I said, well, I have to ask my mom.
[00:12:40] And the youth pastor, Alan, says, well, you can have a scholarship.
[00:12:45] And I went, really?
[00:12:46] And so before I knew it, I'm going on this retreat.
[00:12:49] And so this Jeep arrives at the dorms.
[00:12:54] And we all pile in.
[00:12:56] And there's sleeping bags and all this stuff.
[00:12:59] And a bunch of girls in the back.
[00:13:00] No seatbelts.
[00:13:01] Don't tell anybody.
[00:13:02] That was the year.
[00:13:04] Exactly.
[00:13:05] That was the time.
[00:13:06] And we start heading up into Northern California from San Francisco State.
[00:13:12] And they're singing all these songs that I have never heard before.
[00:13:18] His banner over me is love.
[00:13:21] And I'm going, wow.
[00:13:24] This is really, what have I done?
[00:13:27] What have I done?
[00:13:28] I was kind of afraid.
[00:13:29] I was like, oh, my gosh.
[00:13:31] This is going to be weird.
[00:13:32] And then we arrive.
[00:13:34] And there's guys and girls.
[00:13:35] And some of them are really cute, I must say.
[00:13:38] But anyway, they fight.
[00:13:40] And we each get prayer partners.
[00:13:42] And poor Cindy, she got me as her prayer partner.
[00:13:46] And she really needed a prayer partner.
[00:13:48] But this woman introduced me to God, my father.
[00:13:59] My father, who I wanted to play.
[00:14:02] My dad had died.
[00:14:04] He loved the harp.
[00:14:05] And I used to say, I just love playing for my dad.
[00:14:09] He said there is no wrong note on a harp.
[00:14:13] And it's true.
[00:14:14] You're just playing like terrible chords.
[00:14:17] And it sounds pretty.
[00:14:19] I hate the harp.
[00:14:20] Right?
[00:14:20] Or you're just playing like seconds.
[00:14:22] If you've ever played.
[00:14:23] You know, you're doing one, da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da.
[00:14:26] And then you go two.
[00:14:27] And there's like, it doesn't sound very good.
[00:14:30] And he loved it.
[00:14:31] And so she said, well, you can play for your God, your father, anytime.
[00:14:37] And he is so glad to hear you.
[00:14:43] And I was just like, what?
[00:14:45] And she was an organist.
[00:14:46] And she knew.
[00:14:48] And so at that retreat, I was just, I know somebody asked me to pray.
[00:14:54] And I prayed something over a meal.
[00:14:56] And then I took my first communion.
[00:14:59] And I cried the whole time.
[00:15:03] And it was one of those sweet ones where you have the bread and the cup in the middle.
[00:15:08] And everybody goes.
[00:15:09] Cheers.
[00:15:09] In their old time.
[00:15:10] Definitely communal.
[00:15:11] Right?
[00:15:12] And everybody's in tears.
[00:15:16] And so I was completely changed.
[00:15:21] And I came back to the dorms, unloaded everything.
[00:15:25] And I went, I don't belong here anymore.
[00:15:29] And I ran back up to the church because I had this little night service called Koinonia.
[00:15:34] I remember those.
[00:15:36] Yeah.
[00:15:36] And a little tiny group.
[00:15:38] And one of the pastors was leading it.
[00:15:40] And I was just ready to explode with the excitement of finding out who God was.
[00:15:47] And they said, well, Pam, you look like you have something to share.
[00:15:51] And I stood up and I said, I've been on the retreat.
[00:15:55] And now I know who God is.
[00:15:59] And now I'm beginning to understand what's going on.
[00:16:03] And so, and I can remember the next week I checked that I wanted to become a Christian at church on the little cards, you know.
[00:16:11] I don't know what this is.
[00:16:12] I remember those.
[00:16:13] Right?
[00:16:13] And do you remember the, and they're doing this thing called an offering.
[00:16:17] And I don't know what that is.
[00:16:19] When you have never been to church, you know none of this culture.
[00:16:23] You don't know what it is to be a woman of God.
[00:16:26] You don't know what it is to be a child of God.
[00:16:27] You just don't get any of this.
[00:16:29] And so, I checked that and then the pastor, Alan, calls me.
[00:16:32] He goes, what do you mean you want to become a Christian?
[00:16:34] I thought you became a Christian.
[00:16:35] I said, yeah, but I have no idea what I'm doing.
[00:16:39] I don't know what to do next.
[00:16:41] So, I went in and we actually prayed the prayer.
[00:16:46] A prayer.
[00:16:47] And he gave me a book called What's Next or What to Do Next by Billy Graham.
[00:16:53] Oh, yeah.
[00:16:53] Right?
[00:16:54] And so, I started to do these Bible studies.
[00:16:57] And the college group was great on Friday nights.
[00:17:00] And my friend Cindy picked me up.
[00:17:03] And I was discipled every week with her answering all my questions.
[00:17:11] And then I got involved with the University Christian Fellowship Bible Studies.
[00:17:15] Started in the Book of John.
[00:17:17] Still my favorite book.
[00:17:18] Oh, yeah.
[00:17:18] So good.
[00:17:19] Okay, I've got to interrupt just for a second because there was one part that you left out.
[00:17:23] And I love this part.
[00:17:25] You said that it was either after the retreat that you found out that all those people were praying for you.
[00:17:31] Yeah.
[00:17:32] That they were gathering separately, kind of secretly, just to pray.
[00:17:36] Like, we've got Pam.
[00:17:39] And just when she found out, just that overwhelming feeling to think, I'm that loved, I'm that cared for, that they've all been praying for me.
[00:17:47] And that was kind of their focus.
[00:17:48] We're all here to pray for Pam.
[00:17:50] Right.
[00:17:50] So beautiful.
[00:17:51] To get saved.
[00:17:52] Yeah.
[00:17:52] It was the Monday night prayer meeting.
[00:17:54] Yeah.
[00:17:54] I love that.
[00:17:54] Where the leaders got together and prayed for the people they were witnessing to.
[00:17:59] So that's what, that was, I was just overwhelmed with it.
[00:18:04] And of course, it came in like a wrecking ball to my family.
[00:18:09] And then they, you know, the Jim Jones thing had just happened.
[00:18:15] And so they are so afraid of everything that's happened to me.
[00:18:20] But I just, I saw nothing but getting to know who this God was and what, and what is this book?
[00:18:32] And then I found the most amazing thing in the book.
[00:18:35] There were harps.
[00:18:39] What?
[00:18:40] Speaking your love language right there.
[00:18:41] There's harps in the Bible.
[00:18:44] Have you ever read anything secular that had a bunch of harps in it?
[00:18:47] Never.
[00:18:47] Oh.
[00:18:48] And so I start running into this stuff and I'm going, oh my gosh.
[00:18:54] Could God have had a plan all this time for me to play the harp?
[00:19:00] And that this, you know, and the music major is a really hard major.
[00:19:06] And, you know, I, I did, all I did was get to know Jesus, get to know who he is, get to know his word,
[00:19:14] and play the harp for the next few years, you know.
[00:19:19] Now, you didn't know anything of your Christian heritage at this point?
[00:19:24] None.
[00:19:25] Okay.
[00:19:25] So did you learn anything before you met Lou or did it come all after you met Lou?
[00:19:32] Okay.
[00:19:32] When my grandmother was dying, I went in to see her.
[00:19:38] She had had some of those strokes and she couldn't talk anymore.
[00:19:42] But she had a twinkle in her eye.
[00:19:45] And when I just remember, this is when I was.
[00:19:49] Sturking stuff.
[00:19:50] I was like, there's got to be a God.
[00:19:52] This, none of this is right.
[00:19:54] I stopped, there's a great book about the long journey to faith.
[00:20:02] And when you stop believing what you've been told all your life.
[00:20:07] I mean, we talk about this deconstruction thing that's going on with Christianity.
[00:20:11] Well, that kind of happens if you're brought up outside of the church.
[00:20:18] And it starts to make no sense.
[00:20:20] Yeah.
[00:20:21] What do you mean?
[00:20:21] Why?
[00:20:23] Well, how come there's a bunch of people that are really doing well or they seem to really know where they're going?
[00:20:32] And so there was something, a twinkle in her eye.
[00:20:36] And what I know now is that she was a Christian.
[00:20:42] She had always sung in the choir.
[00:20:45] That's where the music, that was another close connection to music.
[00:20:49] She was very supportive of my music.
[00:20:52] And she had always sung in the church choir in the town where they were, Piedmont Community Church Choir.
[00:21:00] And she was a soloist.
[00:21:02] I knew she was the singer.
[00:21:03] And I knew she'd been one of the first women to sing on radio in New York.
[00:21:08] Wow.
[00:21:09] In the 20s.
[00:21:10] Wow.
[00:21:10] Right?
[00:21:11] And so music was a part of it.
[00:21:14] But there was a twinkle in her eye.
[00:21:16] And I can remember walking out of the room and going, I wonder if she knows there's a God.
[00:21:22] Right?
[00:21:23] But it was too late to ask her.
[00:21:24] I'm sure she prayed for you.
[00:21:26] Oh, yeah.
[00:21:27] You're going to find out.
[00:21:29] You're going to find that out.
[00:21:31] Okay.
[00:21:31] Because just like there was this prayer group of people and the university that were praying for me,
[00:21:39] I eventually find out there was more in the family who I have discovered.
[00:21:46] You know what's interesting about this, too, is my sister-in-law, because Brian was raised irreligious.
[00:21:53] I mean, they knew their dad was a Catholic and they went to Catholic church.
[00:21:56] But it never was like, it was like, this is just what we do culturally because we're Irish and not anything that was a grabber.
[00:22:06] And Brian said he used to make up things to tell the priest because he couldn't think of anything he'd really done that was that bad.
[00:22:12] And he said that, you know, and then he got saved.
[00:22:18] His mom got saved.
[00:22:19] Then he got saved.
[00:22:19] Then his sister Michelle got saved.
[00:22:22] And I remember Michelle saying to me, you know, I have found that there's always somebody who's been praying.
[00:22:28] Always.
[00:22:29] And she said in her life, she believes it was this neighbor woman who lived next door to this single woman who was trying to raise four children whose husband had left her.
[00:22:39] And she would tell them about Jesus.
[00:22:41] And she said, I just know that woman prayed for us.
[00:22:45] And that's why we know Jesus today.
[00:22:47] But let's just talk about how you met Lou.
[00:22:50] Well, just in this segment with how you met Lou so we can go straight into discovery on part two.
[00:22:57] I already warned Pam.
[00:22:59] This is at least a three part.
[00:23:02] You know, be ready to do three.
[00:23:04] And so, Pam, tell me about how you met Lou.
[00:23:07] Okay, so it was at San Francisco State.
[00:23:10] And I met him at that little church.
[00:23:14] Now, Lou has an incredible testimony that goes back to 71 and Lonnie Frisbee and Riverside and all this kind of stuff.
[00:23:25] And then, so he's like very young.
[00:23:28] And he, you know, the world, there wasn't a lot of discipleship going on there.
[00:23:35] So he did some falling away.
[00:23:38] And anyway, so we met at, he was coming back to church at this little church, Temple Baptist Church.
[00:23:49] And he noticed me first because I was playing the harp at church.
[00:23:55] We had, the music was incredible at this place because one of, somebody who became very close, she was a flutist.
[00:24:01] She would just play in the congregation.
[00:24:03] And then, so we would get paired and we would do a lot of music.
[00:24:07] So we met at church and we would meet on campus.
[00:24:10] And he would come to the concerts that I was playing.
[00:24:14] And he noticed me a lot.
[00:24:16] But I was all about Jesus and all about music.
[00:24:21] And nothing became serious until we, we can, this will be a good cliffhanger.
[00:24:27] Oh, good.
[00:24:28] Until I went to the U.S. Center for World Missions to study missions because this is the time of life when it was music or missions, music or missions, chapter of X, Keith Green, music or missions.
[00:24:42] So I went to study missions to see if that's what I was going to do.
[00:24:47] Oh, I love that.
[00:24:49] So when we come back for part two, we'll talk a little bit more about Lou.
[00:24:53] And I love the fact her husband is actually Dr. Lou Wing.
[00:24:57] And for an intellectual family, you know, he's able to give such a great defense about his faith and why he believes.
[00:25:06] So there is so much more to Pam's story that I can't wait for you to hear.
[00:25:09] Join us for part two.
[00:25:11] Thank you for listening to Women Worth Knowing with Cheryl Broderson and Robin Jones-Gunn.
[00:25:15] For more information on Cheryl, visit CherylBroderson.com or follow her on Instagram or Facebook.
[00:25:21] For more information on Robin, visit RobinGunn.com or follow her on Instagram or Facebook.
[00:25:26] Join us each week for a lively conversation as we explore the lives of well-known and not so well-known historical and contemporary Christian women.
[00:25:35] If you think there is a woman worth knowing, we'd love to hear from you.
[00:25:38] Email us at WWK at CCCM.com.
[00:25:44] We hope you've enjoyed today's episode.
[00:25:46] Make sure you rate us on your podcast app, subscribe, and share it with a friend.
[00:25:50] Thank you again for listening to Women Worth Knowing with Cheryl Broderson and Robin Jones-Gunn.
[00:25:56] Women Worth Knowing is a production of Calvary Chapel Costa Mesa.
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