Pam Wing, Part 2

[00:00:04] Welcome to Women Worth Knowing, the radio program and podcast hosted by Cheryl Brodersen and Robin Jones Gunn.

[00:00:11] If you've been listening to this program for a while, you know that Cheryl and I love to discover Christian women with fascinating stories.

[00:00:19] And we are on Part 2 today with Pam Wing with a story that is just going to get better and better.

[00:00:26] We're actually at the discovery point with Pam because the first one, I wanted our listeners to have a little bit of background

[00:00:33] to know how astounding her discovery of finding these Christian relatives and her Christian heritage was.

[00:00:43] So if you've listened to Part 1, you know she was born in an irreligious family in Berkeley, of all places.

[00:00:52] Her father had been a professor at Berkeley.

[00:00:54] That kind of deepens the atheism in the home a little bit.

[00:00:58] And through a series of tragedies, Pam began to search for God.

[00:01:03] And when she cried out to him, he met her even before she knew his name.

[00:01:08] And this was at San Francisco State.

[00:01:10] It was.

[00:01:11] Which I have a little fun fact.

[00:01:13] In 73, I went there to visit a friend of mine just overnight for one night.

[00:01:18] And everything you were saying about dorm life, I experienced it as a very naive high school student.

[00:01:25] And actually, I flew up there and it was my very first plane ride ever from Southern California to San Francisco and then taken to San Francisco State University, the dorms.

[00:01:39] And I realized there's a whole other world out there.

[00:01:41] So everything you're saying about how you called out to God in that place of kind of the darkness or the vague, what would you call it, just the emptiness.

[00:01:53] There was no purpose.

[00:01:54] And that's why you're saying, what happens when you die?

[00:01:58] There's just nothing.

[00:01:59] But God met you in such a beautiful way.

[00:02:01] There's a book called Night of the Witch.

[00:02:03] It's not a Christian book, but it just has to do with the history, the evil, wicked history of San Francisco.

[00:02:11] And the part that it really doubles down on is the time that we're talking about in the 70s.

[00:02:18] 70s, yeah.

[00:02:18] And just the darkness, as you said before, you know, first time the Patty Hearst, the Jim Jones, the Harvey Milk.

[00:02:26] The wine, yeah.

[00:02:27] That whole thing.

[00:02:28] I can tell you where I was when I heard of the assassination.

[00:02:33] Yeah.

[00:02:33] I mean, it was just crazy.

[00:02:34] And the mayor and all of that.

[00:02:37] So now we've got you saved.

[00:02:39] We got you saved in part one, which is great.

[00:02:42] Well, I think Jesus did that.

[00:02:43] Yes, yes.

[00:02:46] Absolutely true.

[00:02:47] But we talked about that.

[00:02:49] And then Lou is showing up at all your concerts that you do as a harpist and a flute.

[00:02:57] And Lou also is a Christian.

[00:02:59] And he also had a born-again experience, as you did.

[00:03:04] And now he's part of the—no, was he part of the worship at that time of the church?

[00:03:10] No, but where we left off was I went to the U.S. Center for World Church.

[00:03:15] That's right.

[00:03:15] Okay.

[00:03:19] And so I went to the U.S. Center for World Missions.

[00:03:22] And there it was in the Pasadena campus of the old Nazarene Church.

[00:03:27] And now these dorms were quite different now.

[00:03:30] Okay.

[00:03:31] And what people were doing in the dorms was quite different.

[00:03:33] Yes, it was.

[00:03:35] Yeah.

[00:03:35] I mean, it didn't share about one thing about the dorms.

[00:03:37] And part of when I went running into the arms of Jesus is the dorms at San Francisco State.

[00:03:44] A gal was murdered.

[00:03:46] Oh, my goodness.

[00:03:47] From the floor above me.

[00:03:51] And so that's part of the chaos that was that fall of 77.

[00:03:56] And when—I mean, I was really looking for God.

[00:04:00] Yes.

[00:04:02] So now we're a few years later.

[00:04:04] I went to the U.S. Center for World Missions.

[00:04:06] I learned about missions.

[00:04:08] This was a school for people to go to right before they went on the field.

[00:04:12] It was a preparation.

[00:04:13] They might go for three months.

[00:04:14] This was a 30-day thing.

[00:04:17] God paid for it all.

[00:04:19] I can remember sitting with Mom.

[00:04:20] She goes, well, what do you need?

[00:04:23] And I said, it's all paid for.

[00:04:26] The youth group had taken an offering.

[00:04:30] Wow.

[00:04:30] I was totally paid for.

[00:04:32] Wow.

[00:04:32] And so God was showing things to my mom.

[00:04:34] Yes.

[00:04:36] And she was still worried that this was a cult.

[00:04:38] But now I'm going to the U.S. Center for World Missions.

[00:04:40] We studied language, the Bible, culture, and one other thing.

[00:04:46] And we're putting this little cohort of all of us who are doing this 30-day program.

[00:04:53] And brand new person I've never met, Carrie.

[00:04:57] And we became fast friends.

[00:05:00] And as we're sharing our testimony, they said, and what do you do?

[00:05:04] And I said, well, I've been a harp major and da-da-da-da.

[00:05:07] Oh, you have to play the harp.

[00:05:09] Well, I had actually zipped up the harp and was not going to play the harp until I figured out what God wanted to do with my life.

[00:05:17] And they said, no, you have to play the harp.

[00:05:20] So I don't know anybody.

[00:05:21] I don't know anything about finding a harp.

[00:05:25] But if you can find a harp, I'll take it as God's message.

[00:05:29] Da-da-da-da.

[00:05:30] God provides a harp.

[00:05:32] My roommate, Carrie, goes to a church where they have a harpist.

[00:05:35] Anyway, so I, to make a long story short, I end up back at, ready to go back to San Francisco.

[00:05:46] Ready.

[00:05:47] I don't know what I'm doing.

[00:05:47] I'm no longer a music major, which is another part of the story, because my teacher got let go.

[00:05:55] And I don't know what I'm doing with my life, except I now know how to fast and pray.

[00:06:01] And I come back, and the church had started giving Lou Wing one month, one Sunday a month, excuse me, he did contemporary worship with a guitar instead of an organ.

[00:06:21] Dun-dun-dun-dun.

[00:06:22] Dun-dun.

[00:06:23] Right?

[00:06:24] And so the pastor says, you know what?

[00:06:28] Why don't you do worship with Lou one of these Sundays?

[00:06:34] So we put it together.

[00:06:36] And so I brought my harp to the church.

[00:06:39] In case you don't know, bringing a harp somewhere requires quite a lot.

[00:06:43] We can imagine.

[00:06:44] Right?

[00:06:44] And this was a fairly small harp, but it still had my station wagon and all that stuff.

[00:06:48] And then you have to haul it up the stairs for us to practice.

[00:06:52] And I did not realize that I kind of did know how to play guitar, because my twin sister and I used to sing every Beatles song and every John Denver song you ever heard or anything.

[00:07:05] And so Lou starts showing me.

[00:07:08] He has read music, but he's not.

[00:07:10] He's just playing the chords.

[00:07:12] And he goes, you can do this.

[00:07:13] You can do this.

[00:07:14] And I said, well, what's that?

[00:07:16] That's a D.

[00:07:17] That's a G.

[00:07:18] That's an A.

[00:07:18] And he goes, okay, well, I can do that on the harp.

[00:07:21] Before I knew it, I could just play along with him.

[00:07:26] And I can remember this was a two-hour.

[00:07:29] It was supposed to be a one-hour rehearsal.

[00:07:31] It was two or three hours.

[00:07:32] And I'm like, what was that?

[00:07:34] Right?

[00:07:35] And so in the meantime, he asked for prayer because he was thinking about going up to a place called Calvary Chapel Chico to help be a worship leader up there.

[00:07:46] And I went, oh, darn.

[00:07:49] So praying, giving it back to the Lord, praying, giving it back to the Lord.

[00:07:53] And eventually, we went on a date right before he left.

[00:07:56] And then we went, oh, my.

[00:07:57] And then he left.

[00:07:58] So our dating was distant.

[00:08:02] And going back and forth between Chico and San Francisco until finally we decided to get married.

[00:08:09] And because it became obvious and the Lord had led us through this.

[00:08:17] But we decided we wanted to leave San Francisco.

[00:08:21] And we decided to go to San Diego to be involved with a church with an international focus because we both had missions on our mind.

[00:08:31] We were like, I want to go to China.

[00:08:34] Yes, we could go to China.

[00:08:36] We could go anywhere.

[00:08:36] We can do anything.

[00:08:38] We were so full of faith and we were going to be worship leaders for Jesus.

[00:08:42] Right?

[00:08:42] And so we end up in San Diego.

[00:08:47] Calvary Chapel, San Diego had just become Horizon Christian Fellowship.

[00:08:53] And they said, well, this is your first year of marriage.

[00:08:57] We don't want you to do much because you should get used to getting married.

[00:09:02] This is a good thing to do.

[00:09:04] And we ended up in an apartment just blocks from the church.

[00:09:10] And so they said, well, that first night we were there, we went to this Bible study with this guy named John Wickham.

[00:09:16] And it was a musician's study.

[00:09:18] And it was so sweet.

[00:09:20] We didn't have electricity yet or anything.

[00:09:23] And John just prayed for us.

[00:09:24] And then he said, well, gosh, guys, when you guys get settled, let's have you do worship.

[00:09:30] So we do worship one Monday night.

[00:09:34] And people are opening the door.

[00:09:36] It was like adult ed night, you know, school of evangelism at night is what it was.

[00:09:42] And people are like opening up the door and looking at the harp.

[00:09:45] The harp kind of is showy.

[00:09:47] Somebody once told me the harp is the diva itself.

[00:09:56] That is the diva.

[00:09:58] Makes sense.

[00:09:59] So everybody's looking.

[00:10:00] And we play our worship thing.

[00:10:03] And God blessed it.

[00:10:05] And a couple days later, John says, I can't hide you anymore.

[00:10:12] I need you on Sunday.

[00:10:15] It turns out Mike Mack and John Wickham had been praying for seven and a half years for a harpist.

[00:10:22] Whoa.

[00:10:23] To come be part of a worship team.

[00:10:25] Wouldn't it be cool if we had a harpist?

[00:10:27] Wouldn't it be cool?

[00:10:27] Wow.

[00:10:28] And they are very few and far between.

[00:10:30] Right.

[00:10:30] That's an unusual request.

[00:10:31] It really is.

[00:10:32] It is.

[00:10:33] And I had been to different things and everybody was like, you want to play the harp?

[00:10:36] What about guitar?

[00:10:38] Right.

[00:10:38] You could go on the mission field on the guitar or with a piano, but how are you going to go

[00:10:43] on the mission field with a harp?

[00:10:45] Lots of baggage.

[00:10:47] Yeah.

[00:10:47] Lots.

[00:10:48] And how are we going to get it there and all this other stuff?

[00:10:50] So I go to play.

[00:10:53] These are the days of truly walking on water worship where we ran through every song once.

[00:11:00] There's no chord charts.

[00:11:02] There's no words.

[00:11:03] We just did this.

[00:11:05] This is 1982.

[00:11:08] And it actually turned out that the bass player told me the names of the chords and what key

[00:11:14] we were in.

[00:11:16] Good old Terry.

[00:11:17] Yeah.

[00:11:18] He was feeding me the chords.

[00:11:19] And before long, Lou is doing worship with John because he could play a guitar well

[00:11:23] enough to play with John Wickham, which if you know John Wickham, that's saying something.

[00:11:28] Huge.

[00:11:29] So we just, all of a sudden, we're in ministry.

[00:11:31] Ministry was happening so fast then that all of the best laid plans were like, we're doing

[00:11:37] home fellowship.

[00:11:38] We're doing ministry.

[00:11:39] We're just doing everything.

[00:11:42] And so now where?

[00:11:44] Let's, well, you know, Lou finishes his education.

[00:11:48] But when?

[00:11:49] Because you told me you ran into some relatives.

[00:11:52] Okay.

[00:11:53] So long story short, we follow the Lord everywhere.

[00:11:58] We go to Scotland for three years.

[00:11:59] We have three children.

[00:12:03] We do, we come back and Lou tells the story of being at a pastor's conference.

[00:12:08] Lou was, at one point, decided he really wanted to be more of a teacher of science and get

[00:12:15] ordained.

[00:12:16] So he got ordained.

[00:12:18] And then he's at a pastor's conference at, I think it was Murrieta.

[00:12:26] And Brian walks up to him.

[00:12:28] Now, my husband has a PhD in protein biochemistry now that he'd gotten from Scotland.

[00:12:34] And Brian walks up and goes, hey, you want to look at the Bible college?

[00:12:38] And so they walked over and they looked at what the construction was.

[00:12:43] And Brian said, well.

[00:12:45] Brian is my husband.

[00:12:46] Just want to say.

[00:12:47] Brian Brodersen, right?

[00:12:48] Yes.

[00:12:48] And so Brian says, well, do you want to teach you?

[00:12:52] He goes, yeah.

[00:12:53] He goes, well, we'll put you in a substitute and we'll see what goes on.

[00:12:58] So Lou starts traveling to the Bible college and teaching different things.

[00:13:03] And eventually, in December of 2005, we move up there and go on staff.

[00:13:11] And I have to just say, Lou was like everybody's favorite teacher.

[00:13:15] Right.

[00:13:15] He just was.

[00:13:16] He just steals the show and he's hilarious.

[00:13:18] He even did like his favorite book is the book of Leviticus and he makes Leviticus interesting.

[00:13:24] Right.

[00:13:25] And I won't tell you how, but he does offer sacrifices.

[00:13:29] Yeah.

[00:13:30] Oh.

[00:13:30] He really goes in because he's teaching human anatomy on the side.

[00:13:36] So then he goes, well, what's the liver and the kidney and the fatty lobe?

[00:13:42] Right.

[00:13:42] And so he brings in a cat and the class goes berserk.

[00:13:46] But anyway, and he teaches a lot of the Old Testament.

[00:13:50] He loves.

[00:13:50] But he shows you how with the sacrifices, he shows you the significance from the anatomy.

[00:13:59] It's crazy.

[00:14:01] It's stunning.

[00:14:02] It's revelational.

[00:14:04] But so you're there at Murrieta now.

[00:14:08] OK.

[00:14:08] So then my mother says, you know, you have a cousin.

[00:14:12] You've heard this story of your Aunt Ruth or your great Aunt Ruth.

[00:14:17] This was my grandma Sue's oldest sister.

[00:14:21] Now, this was part of why they didn't want to be Christians because Aunt Ruth, I'm going to – this is the – she went to be a missionary in Abba of the Congo, the city in Congo.

[00:14:39] And she – we'll go into that whole thing.

[00:14:44] But so there is – I'm going to hold this.

[00:14:47] Anyway, so my mom says, well, you know, I've always wanted to meet her son who lives in Yorba Linda.

[00:14:56] OK.

[00:14:57] Now, wait.

[00:14:57] Did you actually hear about Ruth as you were growing up?

[00:15:00] Or is your mother just sort of acting like, of course, you know about Ruth?

[00:15:04] She – actually, my middle name was Ruth.

[00:15:06] Oh.

[00:15:07] And I heard about this Aunt Ruth, and she had died in Africa.

[00:15:13] Yeah.

[00:15:13] And this is part of why you shouldn't become a Christian.

[00:15:17] OK.

[00:15:18] Something tragic might happen to you like that.

[00:15:20] But Ruth –

[00:15:20] Oh, serving the Lord.

[00:15:22] Relative in –

[00:15:22] So Ruth had one son in Africa.

[00:15:27] OK.

[00:15:28] And he was now living in Yorba Linda.

[00:15:31] And I had – I didn't have any of this connected up, but I had met Lawrence and his wife Kitty and their daughter Tyler once when I was probably four or five.

[00:15:44] Now, Lawrence is Ruth's son.

[00:15:46] Lawrence is Ruth's son.

[00:15:49] And he is living in Yorba Linda.

[00:15:51] OK.

[00:15:52] So my mom says, we should do something with this.

[00:15:56] And so I start reaching out.

[00:15:58] All she's got is a phone number.

[00:16:00] Turns out he's lived in Yorba Linda forever and a day, and the numbers and the addresses are all right.

[00:16:05] Wow.

[00:16:06] And so I think we go to her – to him once from Murrieta over to Yorba Linda.

[00:16:16] My mom came down to visit.

[00:16:17] And we meet him for the first time.

[00:16:23] And I hear the story of his mother, Ruth.

[00:16:26] Wow.

[00:16:27] Ruth Boot Laird.

[00:16:29] And should I go into that?

[00:16:31] Yes.

[00:16:32] OK.

[00:16:33] Dive in.

[00:16:34] OK.

[00:16:34] Ruth was born in 1886.

[00:16:38] And she was born – I love the way it's written.

[00:16:41] I have to tell you, I know this story because of letters that were saved almost 100 years ago.

[00:16:49] What a gift that is.

[00:16:51] And for those of you saving letters, keep on doing it.

[00:16:54] The important ones.

[00:16:55] And you know what?

[00:16:56] We're actually sitting here looking at a binder that Pam has with the actual letters in protective sheets.

[00:17:02] And they're – that beautiful handwriting from that era.

[00:17:06] But what a treasure to find out what Ruth's life was like in Africa and the Congo.

[00:17:11] Right.

[00:17:12] And so her story – she was born – I love it because I get this information from the application to work with C.T. Studd's missionary field missions work called Heart of Africa.

[00:17:32] So she goes to work with Heart of Africa.

[00:17:35] Heart of Africa.

[00:17:37] Wow.

[00:17:37] So C.T. Studd, who is well-known to our listeners, we did a podcast on his daughter.

[00:17:44] Oh.

[00:17:45] Jasmine did way back at the beginning.

[00:17:47] Yes.

[00:17:48] And so this – the application, she describes herself that she was born into a large family of earnest, active Christians.

[00:17:57] I love that.

[00:17:58] And I love earnest.

[00:17:59] Isn't that our authentic word now?

[00:18:01] Yes.

[00:18:01] But earnest – I'm going to use that more.

[00:18:03] And active.

[00:18:04] I like that too.

[00:18:05] Earnest, active.

[00:18:07] Their father took them to church all the time.

[00:18:10] She went to – she started school, but she left because she's one of seven children.

[00:18:16] She's probably the oldest girl.

[00:18:17] And she stays home and she leaves school, helps at home.

[00:18:26] The second to the youngest is my grandma Sue.

[00:18:30] And then there's one more.

[00:18:33] I think her name is Edith, is the next one.

[00:18:37] And those are the two people who I think save all this information, right?

[00:18:41] So they have it – no, it's Ethel, not Edith.

[00:18:43] It's Ethel.

[00:18:44] And so all these letters come from them.

[00:18:48] And somehow this was saved by Lawrence.

[00:18:52] And I've got digital copies of everything.

[00:18:55] So it was all sent to me by what would be Lawrence's daughter who I eventually meet.

[00:19:03] So we meet – I get to know some of the stuff.

[00:19:06] It's really different.

[00:19:07] But he's a genuine Christian.

[00:19:09] He and his wife Kitty have been involved with Gideon Bibles their whole life.

[00:19:18] They've just done the mission field.

[00:19:20] And I find out – I talk to him – I was still – I still was cautious with my mom when I talked about being a Christian because she had laid down the law.

[00:19:31] We didn't talk about this.

[00:19:34] Don't pray at my house.

[00:19:36] Don't – it was pretty difficult.

[00:19:38] So I begin to get to know him.

[00:19:40] And he says, well, you know, your mom – your grandma was a Christian.

[00:19:44] And I went, ah.

[00:19:45] But I think she had been silenced by the culture also.

[00:19:49] So she was the silent Christian who didn't tell me anything.

[00:19:55] So I saw him three or four times before he passed away.

[00:20:00] And every time was absolutely a treasure.

[00:20:03] And one time he came to the Bible, to Murrieta, to do a seniors retreat that Chuck Smith happened to be speaking at.

[00:20:12] Right?

[00:20:13] And so we met out there by the clock tower and talked about everything.

[00:20:17] And we just couldn't believe the sweetness of his life.

[00:20:22] And that is when I learned that they had been praying for me since I was born and when I was going through all those surgeries.

[00:20:32] Wow.

[00:20:33] So I just –

[00:20:35] And that little twinkle in Grandma Sue's eye.

[00:20:38] Yes.

[00:20:38] And Lawrence, who you had not even met yet or knew about.

[00:20:43] Right.

[00:20:43] And they're praying.

[00:20:44] And then there you are, Murrieta.

[00:20:46] What overlapping circles with your life too, Cheryl, that your dad was there.

[00:20:50] They're talking about –

[00:20:51] I know.

[00:20:52] I know.

[00:20:52] Wow.

[00:20:52] Well, Lou – everybody loves Lou.

[00:20:54] You know?

[00:20:56] But Pam is this one with this heritage, which is just – it's like everybody kind of knew me because I was Chuck Smith's daughter.

[00:21:03] But Brian has a whole different heritage that is – again, he found out later that he discovered a spiritual heritage, which is astounding.

[00:21:13] That goes back to England.

[00:21:14] But – so we've got you talking at the clock tower with Lawrence, finding out that you were prayed for the entire time.

[00:21:23] When did you start researching Ruth, your great-aunt Ruth?

[00:21:29] I remember that my mother had given me copies of this.

[00:21:33] My mom was always interested in what we were – anyone of us were interested in.

[00:21:38] So she had sent me these things, and I had a file of them.

[00:21:42] And my grandma, Sue, also had a dear friend who was a missionary in Peking before World War II.

[00:21:50] And I have a whole collection of her things, too.

[00:21:54] Oh, my goodness.

[00:21:55] So – and I remember meeting her once.

[00:21:57] So – and that was way before I came Christian.

[00:22:00] But these were very sweet people.

[00:22:02] You know, and my grandma was just wonderful.

[00:22:05] So it was probably five or six years ago that I was given this box of all these things.

[00:22:13] After Lawrence and his wife Kitty had passed away and their daughter, she had so much stuff she didn't know what to do.

[00:22:20] And I told them that I wanted to look into this, and she just sent me all this stuff.

[00:22:27] And I have a wonderful scrapbook that is the scrapbook that Ruth – in Ruth's story, she says she was converted when she was 12.

[00:22:38] And then at 25, she went back and got her high school degree and a teaching certificate.

[00:22:44] She taught for two and a half years, and then she went to the Denver Bible Institute.

[00:22:50] And that's where she met Guy Laird, who had been – he's a civil engineer and an electrical engineer.

[00:22:59] He was so famous, he even almost worked for Thomas Edison.

[00:23:02] But he just wanted to support missions into Africa.

[00:23:06] And so if you read C.T. Studd's story or the story of his daughter, there's a time when she comes to America.

[00:23:14] Right.

[00:23:15] And she starts sharing the story.

[00:23:18] These people, this group of eight, travel from Denver all the way to ABBA.

[00:23:24] And they are the American contingent that responded to the story of what C.T. Studd was doing.

[00:23:32] In the heart of Africa.

[00:23:34] That's remarkable.

[00:23:35] You know, what's really interesting about that is there's a story called The Cambridge Seven.

[00:23:40] And it has to do when C.T. Studd – John Pollock wrote it – got saved.

[00:23:45] And C.T. Studd and S.P. Smith went all over England.

[00:23:54] And they were, I want to say, proselytizing people into the mission field, calling people into the mission field.

[00:24:00] And they also went up to St. Andrews College, which I think is interesting because that's where her husband went.

[00:24:06] But the response was just incredible to this call to missions.

[00:24:13] In fact, that's one of my favorite stories is when C.T. Studd and F.B. Meyer – all these people with just initials for first names –

[00:24:22] Right.

[00:24:22] When they meet.

[00:24:24] And that is so exciting.

[00:24:25] It looks like we're going to have to go into a part three, which I knew we were going to.

[00:24:30] But first, give us a year, Pam.

[00:24:32] What year did Ruth go to the Congo?

[00:24:35] Okay.

[00:24:35] So, she went to the – it was in 1920.

[00:24:39] Okay.

[00:24:40] Is when these letters –

[00:24:43] That's enough.

[00:24:43] September 1920.

[00:24:45] Oh, there you go.

[00:24:45] To be continued.

[00:24:46] Yes.

[00:24:47] And that will be so good.

[00:24:49] So, we've done the discovery.

[00:24:50] And when we come back, we are going to talk about Ruth Laird and all that God did in the Congo.

[00:24:56] Join us for part three.

[00:24:57] Can't wait.

[00:24:58] Thank you for listening to Women Worth Knowing with Cheryl Broderson and Robin Jones-Gunn.

[00:25:15] For more information on Cheryl, visit CherylBroderson.com or follow her on Instagram or Facebook.

[00:25:21] For more information on Robin, visit RobinGunn.com or follow her on Instagram or Facebook.

[00:25:27] Join us each week for a lively conversation as we explore the lives of well-known and not-so-well-known historical and contemporary Christian women.

[00:25:35] If you think there is a woman worth knowing, we'd love to hear from you.

[00:25:39] Email us at WWK at CCCM.com.

[00:25:45] We hope you've enjoyed today's episode.

[00:25:47] Make sure you rate us on your podcast app, subscribe, and share it with a friend.

[00:25:51] Thank you again for listening to Women Worth Knowing with Cheryl Broderson and Robin Jones-Gunn.

[00:25:56] Women Worth Knowing is a production of Calvary Chapel Costa Mesa.