Pam Wing, Part 3

[00:00:04] Welcome to Women Worth Knowing, the radio program and podcast hosted by Cheryl Brodersen and Robin Jones Gunn.

[00:00:12] Hello, beautiful listeners. We have Part 3 today with Pam Wing.

[00:00:17] But really, Pam is going to be telling us about her relative, a great aunt, Ruth Laird.

[00:00:25] And where we left off was that Pam has discovered a relative that had all these letters and these pictures.

[00:00:32] And she has them here in studio. We're looking at the original photos in this beautiful.

[00:00:38] You remember how they used to do photo books where it's black pages and then the little triangles at the corners to put the black and white pictures in.

[00:00:46] And so we can't wait for you to hear about Ruth and her time in the Congo.

[00:00:54] We might even post some of these pictures on the website, which would be excellent.

[00:00:57] It makes it so much more alive for our listeners.

[00:01:00] It does. So one of the amazing things that we've been talking about is how Pam grew up in this irreligious home and had no idea of this Christian heritage she had until after she came to know God as her father.

[00:01:15] And it was even sometime after that, and her mom began to be a little more forthright about some of her relatives.

[00:01:23] There is so much more to that story, too.

[00:01:25] I mean, we hope, Pam, your story can go so many different ways because of all that God has done.

[00:01:33] And isn't that so exciting?

[00:01:36] So we left Ruth at 1920 where she's just gone to the Congo with her husband.

[00:01:43] So it's just her and her husband.

[00:01:45] And they're with a group of, did you say nine people?

[00:01:47] I think it's eight or nine people that are on a team that has been assembled from the U.S. to go to work with CT Stud in the heart of Africa, in the Congo, the city of Abba.

[00:02:05] And the Congo at this point is a very dangerous place.

[00:02:09] Right.

[00:02:09] So we did an episode on Mary Livingston.

[00:02:13] That's right.

[00:02:13] Dr. Livingston, I presume, his wife.

[00:02:16] And how this was probably 60 years before your aunt went there when he was exploring and setting up these mission stations because it was all happening brand new.

[00:02:28] No one had been in that heart of Africa before.

[00:02:31] And then when Helen Rosevere was there, it was filled with civil war.

[00:02:35] And so civil war had kind of taken over.

[00:02:38] And these rival gangs kept taking over places in the Congo.

[00:02:42] So it was a dangerous place even to go at that point.

[00:02:47] So we're talking 1920.

[00:02:49] Yeah, we're talking 1920.

[00:02:50] They meet in New York.

[00:02:53] This takes months for them to travel by sea and by land and by eventually when they make it to Cairo.

[00:03:05] And they had somebody who spoke French who was with them.

[00:03:08] But it was crazy.

[00:03:10] She talks in one of these letters of her birthday was when they were on a ship and they were all really sick.

[00:03:15] And it was a boat from Greece and it was actually condemned.

[00:03:19] And so they were, I mean, you sort of see these Christians huddled praying and singing.

[00:03:27] And I think it says some of that, you know, and we just turned to the Lord and trusted we were going to go there.

[00:03:35] And it's interesting that you bring up Livingston and his wife because in her application to join this, she had to talk about some books that were very influential.

[00:03:49] Really?

[00:03:50] And she talks about reading Dr. Livingston's biography and Mary Slessor of Calabar.

[00:03:59] Right.

[00:03:59] Right.

[00:04:00] And we have an episode on Mary Slessor.

[00:04:02] And she was Scottish.

[00:04:04] And Lou went to college in Scotland.

[00:04:09] And Dr. Livingston was from Scotland.

[00:04:12] That's right.

[00:04:13] That's right.

[00:04:13] All these connections.

[00:04:14] All these connections.

[00:04:15] And when I read this list, I go, I love these books.

[00:04:20] Right.

[00:04:21] I would read these books, Rightly Dividing the Word of God by Schofield.

[00:04:26] I'm like, oh, my gosh.

[00:04:27] These are my first things that I was discipled with.

[00:04:32] She is discipled with it.

[00:04:34] I'm just like, I could be her best friend.

[00:04:37] Yes.

[00:04:37] I cannot wait to get to heaven.

[00:04:39] And I'm going to go talk to Grandma Sue.

[00:04:41] And I'm going to meet Aunt Ruth.

[00:04:43] And I bet the rest of the family.

[00:04:46] Because I think they were.

[00:04:49] That's part of my Christian heritage is on that little leg, my grandmother's side.

[00:04:57] Yes.

[00:04:57] Of the family.

[00:04:58] On your mom's side.

[00:04:59] On my mother's side.

[00:05:00] They were the most genuine Christians.

[00:05:04] Not, anyway, that I know of.

[00:05:06] Isn't that the word now?

[00:05:07] Earnest.

[00:05:07] Earnest.

[00:05:08] That's right.

[00:05:08] Earnest active.

[00:05:09] Very good.

[00:05:10] Earnest active Christians and really seeking the Lord and wanting to serve the Lord.

[00:05:14] In these letters, she talks about how all she wanted to do was be a missionary and help people.

[00:05:22] And she felt particularly drawn to children.

[00:05:27] She worked a lot with children.

[00:05:29] And so they head off.

[00:05:34] And her husband, Guy Laird, was pretty prominent in Denver.

[00:05:38] And his father was the editor of the Daily Caller or Daily Register of Denver, the Center City Daily Register.

[00:05:48] And so he would send back letters.

[00:05:50] And we have the printed copies of these letters where they talked about this trip and what they were doing and how they were set up.

[00:05:58] So his father then published them in the newspaper?

[00:06:01] Yes.

[00:06:02] Oh, excellent.

[00:06:03] Yes.

[00:06:04] Those who can see, they're here.

[00:06:06] All these really old people.

[00:06:07] He does.

[00:06:08] And of course, the dates aren't there, but I kind of put it together.

[00:06:11] Anyway.

[00:06:12] What a treasure trove you have.

[00:06:13] So it's like from 1920, October 1920.

[00:06:19] And then it chronicles some different things and it gives updates.

[00:06:23] One of these articles talks about how Ruth has been set up to take care of the girls.

[00:06:31] And they make a home behind their place.

[00:06:34] Mm-hmm.

[00:06:35] And Guy Laird is an engineer and he starts teaching these people how to make bricks and make solid buildings.

[00:06:43] But just like when – it was a very dangerous place.

[00:06:48] There was a lot of – they – if somebody was different, they might try to beat them up.

[00:06:57] If somebody got sick, they might try to beat them up.

[00:07:00] If there were twins, like remember –

[00:07:02] Yes, Mary Schlesser's.

[00:07:03] There were twins.

[00:07:04] That was supposed to be bad.

[00:07:06] One was demonic and you couldn't know which one was demonic, so you killed both of them.

[00:07:10] So you killed both – yes.

[00:07:11] And so she talks about there were twin girls in this story of –

[00:07:16] And you relate to that too.

[00:07:17] And I relate to that because I'm an identical twin.

[00:07:21] So all of these things.

[00:07:23] And then in 1922, January 20th, she gives birth to Lawrence.

[00:07:30] And there's stories in these letters to my – her little sister Sue.

[00:07:36] And she says, oh, the people just love him.

[00:07:39] And he's the first white baby they've ever met.

[00:07:43] And he gets along so well with everybody.

[00:07:47] How precious to read that when you have met Lawrence.

[00:07:51] Exactly.

[00:07:51] Like it makes it so real.

[00:07:54] Right.

[00:07:54] He's just a tall drink of water, you know.

[00:07:57] And I learned when we began to spend time with him, he stayed – okay.

[00:08:03] So they got sick a lot.

[00:08:07] You can imagine it was –

[00:08:08] Especially working with children.

[00:08:10] Working with children and working in a whole new environment.

[00:08:13] And they would get sick a lot.

[00:08:14] And they were – it was called the station.

[00:08:16] They were on the station.

[00:08:18] And the men often left the station.

[00:08:20] And the women stayed together.

[00:08:21] And there was nurses and all this kind of stuff.

[00:08:25] Well, so Ruth gets really sick.

[00:08:30] She's got the flu.

[00:08:31] And it's 1923.

[00:08:35] So it's almost – so they arrived sometime in 1920.

[00:08:39] And this is 1923.

[00:08:42] And she's really, really sick.

[00:08:46] And I think Lawrence is being taken care of by somebody else.

[00:08:51] And there's nurses around her.

[00:08:53] And this is really a treasure.

[00:08:57] I have a letter of what happened when she passed away.

[00:09:03] And the person who was taking care of her wrote down her final words in her last few days.

[00:09:11] And she always talked about God as being her daddy.

[00:09:16] And –

[00:09:17] Which you relate to, too.

[00:09:19] I totally relate to.

[00:09:20] Yes.

[00:09:20] This is what drew you to the Lord, that you had a heavenly father.

[00:09:24] Right.

[00:09:24] Cared for you.

[00:09:25] Exactly.

[00:09:26] And that was the – and the love of God.

[00:09:29] Yeah.

[00:09:29] The real love, unconditional love of God and the love of the Father wrapping you in his arms,

[00:09:37] carrying you as the good shepherd.

[00:09:40] It's Jesus – the pictures of Jesus.

[00:09:41] I'm like, what?

[00:09:43] None of this I grew up with.

[00:09:46] None of the hope of heaven.

[00:09:48] Right.

[00:09:49] And here she is talking in such intimate terms about her God, her father.

[00:09:57] And some of this is so sweet.

[00:09:59] And she's so ready to go to her heavenly father.

[00:10:04] And it's – you can see this person wrote this out and leaves lines where she maybe was mumbling

[00:10:11] or she couldn't quite pick it up.

[00:10:12] But she wrote down absolutely as much as she possibly could the time that it started.

[00:10:20] So I can imagine that this is – she wanted to be able to tell Guy, her husband, when he came back

[00:10:28] that what was going on.

[00:10:30] And she says, I'm ready.

[00:10:32] She calls him Abba.

[00:10:34] And please, Lord, bless everyone at the station.

[00:10:38] Bless the boys.

[00:10:40] Fill them with your love.

[00:10:44] Take care of everybody.

[00:10:46] I'm coming to see you.

[00:10:48] I'm coming.

[00:10:50] Wow.

[00:10:52] Dear Daddy, you're so good to me.

[00:10:57] And then she had a loving smile on her face.

[00:11:01] And then she said goodbye.

[00:11:03] Wow.

[00:11:04] And she died with a glorious smile on her lips.

[00:11:10] And that she was ready to go.

[00:11:15] And she trusted that God was going to take care of her family and all of the people.

[00:11:20] You know, to go out like that, interceding for those you're leaving is so amazing.

[00:11:27] No thoughts of self in this at all.

[00:11:30] But thoughts for others.

[00:11:31] Kind of like our Jesus on the cross.

[00:11:34] You know, his thoughts are for us and for, you know, for his mother.

[00:11:38] And then, you know, Father, forgive them for they know not what they're doing.

[00:11:42] And I think about her.

[00:11:45] And I think about this is the reason Lawrence is a Christian.

[00:11:50] Yeah.

[00:11:51] And I even think about Stephen when he's dying.

[00:11:54] You know, the first martyr in the Bible, New Testament martyr, where they're throwing the stones at him.

[00:11:59] And he said, Father, do not put this to their account.

[00:12:02] And we think Paul, the apostle, who later became the apostle, was there, you know, holding the coats of those who were throwing the stones.

[00:12:11] And you think if Stephen had said, Lord, hold it to their account, would Paul have ever become saved?

[00:12:18] And you think of her.

[00:12:20] And, you know, because we often read of missionary children whose parents maybe died on the mission field who are resentful.

[00:12:27] Or they're resentful that their parents gave so much to Jesus and not enough to them.

[00:12:33] And we're dealing with this very entitled generation right now of a lot of pastor's kids saying, well, you know, my dad put the ministry first.

[00:12:42] Or he, you know, like, for instance, my father never missed a Sunday unless he was deathly ill.

[00:12:49] But he just wouldn't miss it.

[00:12:51] And instead of seeing that as nobility, we have a generation that's saying, well, what about me?

[00:12:56] Well, what about me?

[00:12:58] They never thought about me.

[00:12:59] And I love the selflessness in this that I think carried down to Lawrence to love his heritage.

[00:13:08] Yes.

[00:13:09] And Cheryl, I'm going to put you on the spot.

[00:13:11] But would you share with us the blessing that you heard from your father's lips at the very end?

[00:13:17] Oh, no.

[00:13:17] Yes.

[00:13:18] I'm going to get the tissues.

[00:13:21] So I had told my father there was someone who was writing really mean letters and getting my dad to sign off on them.

[00:13:28] And he would only show my father a portion of the letters.

[00:13:30] And then he would add all this to him and send it out as if it was my father.

[00:13:34] And I said, Dad, you've always been a man of grace.

[00:13:36] And you've never cursed anybody in my whole life.

[00:13:39] And he's putting a curse on the movement and on these men.

[00:13:44] Will you give a blessing?

[00:13:48] And I had wanted a blessing always.

[00:13:51] I married Brian.

[00:13:52] I let my parents do all Jewish Gentile music at my wedding, all the music from Fiddler on the Roof, just so I could have their blessing.

[00:13:59] I wanted their blessing on my marriage to Brian.

[00:14:03] And so, you know, all my life, I've just – I always was teacher's pet.

[00:14:08] And I just loved the blessing of my parents.

[00:14:10] That's what I wanted.

[00:14:11] So the last day as my father's dying and he's not speaking.

[00:14:17] He's going into his coma and all he's doing is shaking his head no.

[00:14:20] The nurse comes in, are you in any pain?

[00:14:22] He shakes his head no.

[00:14:24] Are you hungry?

[00:14:25] He shakes his head no.

[00:14:26] Are you thirsty?

[00:14:27] He shakes his head no.

[00:14:28] Somebody would come in to see him.

[00:14:30] Do you want to see them?

[00:14:31] And he shakes his head no.

[00:14:32] And he just wanted his family around him.

[00:14:35] And my cousin came in.

[00:14:37] My cousin was a musician and he said, let's sing over your dad because he had sung over his father.

[00:14:43] They had sung hymns when his father went to heaven.

[00:14:46] And so my cousin had had a stroke by this time and starts singing this song that nobody knows.

[00:14:51] My cousin's looking at me because my dad's eyes are closed and we're kind of looking at each other like, we don't know this song.

[00:14:56] There's like four of us or five of us.

[00:14:58] We're all holding hands around my dad.

[00:15:00] We're like, you know, there goes my cousin Chuck and we don't know what he's doing.

[00:15:05] And his wife's looking at me and shaking her head like, I have no idea where this is going.

[00:15:10] So then my cousin looks at me and he says, do you know this song?

[00:15:13] And I said, no, I don't.

[00:15:14] But I know this song.

[00:15:15] And I said, the Lord bless thee.

[00:15:18] And right as I did that, my dad opened his eyes and sang the song.

[00:15:23] Started out, the Lord bless thee.

[00:15:26] And we repeated after him.

[00:15:29] And he finished and give you peace.

[00:15:32] And that was the last thing he ever said or did.

[00:15:36] And he went right into a coma right after that and never responded at all.

[00:15:41] But he left this earth blessing with a blessing.

[00:15:46] And that's how we want to leave this earth with a blessing.

[00:15:50] And you know, Pam, you were talking about earlier in your life, the idea of leaving like your father,

[00:15:56] not being blessed or leaving a blessing because he didn't believe in heaven.

[00:16:00] And the difference when you know heaven is real and you leave and you're doing that blessing.

[00:16:08] You know, I think of we did Mrs. C.H. Spurgeon.

[00:16:11] And she looked up into heaven and said to her son, it's all right.

[00:16:17] Jesus is here and he's coming for me.

[00:16:20] I'm going to be just fine.

[00:16:21] And she squeezed his hand and she went to heaven.

[00:16:23] Or D.L. Moody, when he went to heaven, who said, oh, oh, it's all glorious.

[00:16:30] Nobody told me it was this glorious.

[00:16:33] And he said, oh, my, you didn't tell me that little Emma, which was his granddaughter, his favorite granddaughter,

[00:16:40] had gone to be with Jesus while he's bringing her with him to take me to heaven.

[00:16:46] I had read that to my father about two months before he died.

[00:16:51] And I remember he called me and he said, read it again, read it again.

[00:16:55] And he had me read it over the phone and I actually Xerox copied it.

[00:17:00] It was Mike McIntosh that republished that book.

[00:17:03] I actually had the original because I bought it in England.

[00:17:06] Then he republished it, written by his son, where he tells the story of his homegoing.

[00:17:11] But, you know, what is it it says in Isaiah?

[00:17:16] Precious.

[00:17:17] Oh, Psalms.

[00:17:18] Precious in the sight of the Lord.

[00:17:20] The death of his saints.

[00:17:21] The death of his saints.

[00:17:22] Yeah.

[00:17:23] And for you, Pam, to have seen that twinkle in the eye of your Grandma Sue, she knew where she was going.

[00:17:31] And there was no fear and no regrets.

[00:17:34] And just that unspoken blessing was right there.

[00:17:38] Now, going back, because this is important, because we've got Pam's mom, who was resentful, said, don't become a missionary.

[00:17:47] This might happen to you.

[00:17:48] Don't walk with Jesus.

[00:17:50] But, Pam, tell us a little bit about what your mom later confessed to you.

[00:17:56] Okay.

[00:17:57] So, my mom, well, the best part, I mean, okay, my mom loved Lou.

[00:18:05] And they could talk about different authors that my mom had read.

[00:18:12] And G.K. Chesterston.

[00:18:15] Ten, right.

[00:18:16] Excellent.

[00:18:16] Yes.

[00:18:17] And all this stuff.

[00:18:19] And just like she gave me these things because she thought I'd be interested, she would listen to whatever Lou had to say.

[00:18:25] And boy, howdy did he tell her.

[00:18:28] Everything.

[00:18:29] And all the fascinating science that he did, but how God was in it.

[00:18:36] And I can remember, it was about 2017.

[00:18:40] I'm sitting with my mom.

[00:18:42] We've had a really hard time in the family, but I've just got this time with her.

[00:18:49] And she mentioned something about not being able to forgive somebody.

[00:18:55] And I said, well, you know, God is the one who helps us to forgive somebody.

[00:19:07] Because she – and then she began to tell me of what she did in 47.

[00:19:11] And she was a youth leader.

[00:19:14] And she traveled to Oslo to a international Christian conference of all the Christian young people after the World War.

[00:19:28] That's remarkable.

[00:19:29] And it was – and she had this giant box of stuff.

[00:19:36] And I – so over the next few years, I'm starting to get all this.

[00:19:41] And she'd always told us about La Chambon.

[00:19:43] And that when she was young, she went and served.

[00:19:46] What they did was they were gone for three months for the whole summer.

[00:19:50] And they left from New York.

[00:19:52] And they went over to Oslo.

[00:19:54] They were also at Oxford at different things.

[00:19:56] And then they went into this little village that had saved the Jewish people of Germany and helped them in the –

[00:20:06] Holocaust.

[00:20:08] Holocaust.

[00:20:08] And to get out.

[00:20:09] And that they were a bunch of Christians.

[00:20:12] And that was always said with this sort of – a bunch of Christians.

[00:20:17] But it was kind of a good thing they did.

[00:20:19] But we can be just as good, right?

[00:20:21] And if you look at it, this is the very beginning of the ecumenical movement.

[00:20:25] And there is a time, if you do the research, when the ecumenical movement, after this giant thing which was called Stand Up for Jesus,

[00:20:34] and there's – they met in Oslo.

[00:20:38] And they had no flags except the Christian flag on the thing.

[00:20:43] And they sang from all nations.

[00:20:45] My mom met people from all over Africa and all these different things.

[00:20:50] And she – we have a recording.

[00:20:54] She told us the story as she unearthed these things and pictures of her whole trip and traveling on a Liberty ship and all this stuff.

[00:21:10] And so mom begins to tell me about – well, you know, she used to go to these meetings where somebody would say,

[00:21:16] you should come forward.

[00:21:18] Does anybody want to come forward?

[00:21:20] And she would be standing – I can imagine her as a leader standing in the back by the – not a sound booth, but the back door.

[00:21:28] You know.

[00:21:29] And saying, well, I don't need to do that.

[00:21:32] Right?

[00:21:32] Right.

[00:21:33] But over the years – my mom died in the fall of 21.

[00:21:40] Over the years, Lou and I shared the Lord a bunch of times.

[00:21:43] Yeah.

[00:21:44] And she loved to have us pray for dinner.

[00:21:47] It went from don't pray for dinner to, Lou, will you pray?

[00:21:51] Lou, will you pray?

[00:21:53] Lou, will you pray?

[00:21:54] And in those last few days of her life, she loved it when I would pray over her.

[00:21:59] And I was sharing a lot of – I think, you know, God is lowly.

[00:22:08] Jesus says, take my yoke upon you.

[00:22:11] I am lowly.

[00:22:13] I'm gentle and lowly.

[00:22:15] And I said, Mom, that's who Jesus is.

[00:22:18] And, Mom, you know how you talk about how fun that was when you were at that thing in every nation?

[00:22:26] I said, that's from the book of Revelations.

[00:22:28] Absolutely.

[00:22:30] And that's heaven.

[00:22:31] That's where you're going.

[00:22:33] We couldn't – you couldn't make it happen here in all of her – we have to be the right ones.

[00:22:39] We have to do it.

[00:22:40] We have to be the world's best on this earth in our own strength.

[00:22:45] I said, it's all going to be in heaven.

[00:22:48] And, you know, I don't have the moment in time when – like I do with my – part of my testimony, my twin sister also died.

[00:22:57] Lou led her to the Lord 48 hours before she died.

[00:23:00] But I don't have a time where I could say she accepted the Lord.

[00:23:06] But her demeanor was that.

[00:23:08] Her heart was with the Lord.

[00:23:09] Yeah.

[00:23:09] And she was smiling.

[00:23:11] And she was doing pretty well when she passed.

[00:23:15] You know, this is – I love that because you've got this heritage.

[00:23:20] You know, Pam came from deconstruction to construction.

[00:23:24] Her mom went from construction to deconstruction but back to construction.

[00:23:29] And I think, boy, for those who have prodigals out there.

[00:23:32] Yes.

[00:23:33] I mean –

[00:23:34] Pray.

[00:23:34] Right.

[00:23:35] This is the theme all the way through Pam's life.

[00:23:37] Don't stop praying.

[00:23:38] Prayer, prayer, prayer, prayer.

[00:23:38] But the parents are the prodigals sometimes.

[00:23:40] Yeah.

[00:23:41] And that the mom came back because she saw the genuine faith of Pam and Lou and what the Lord had done.

[00:23:52] You know, I'm wondering if maybe you're a listener and you're out there and you don't know that you actually have this incredible Christian heritage.

[00:24:01] And like Pam, you're going to discover that you've got a Father in heaven that loves you.

[00:24:07] And, you know, Pam finds out that she's related to all these beautiful, earnest, active believers.

[00:24:16] You know, and it's – she's already part of this big family.

[00:24:20] Yeah.

[00:24:20] Yeah.

[00:24:21] And all that prayer.

[00:24:23] And that was why I was dying for her to come when we sat here and she was showing me these journals.

[00:24:28] I'm like –

[00:24:29] That's beautiful.

[00:24:29] Okay.

[00:24:29] We can only do so much on this program.

[00:24:31] So Pamela has to write a book.

[00:24:33] You just have to write a book.

[00:24:34] Yes, you do.

[00:24:35] Yes, you do.

[00:24:35] And include all the pictures and everything because it is just so fascinating.

[00:24:42] And so important for us to pray.

[00:24:45] Pray, pray, pray.

[00:24:46] Yes.

[00:24:46] Yep.

[00:24:47] Amen.

[00:24:47] Amen.

[00:24:48] Amen.

[00:24:48] Don't stop praying.

[00:24:50] Don't stop praying.

[00:24:51] Thank you, Pam, for being here.

[00:24:52] Yes.

[00:24:52] Thank you for coming.

[00:24:53] Thank you for introducing us to Ruth Laird, your great aunt and your grandma Sue, who

[00:24:59] I know was praying, and to your cousin Lawrence, and to all these wonderful believers that

[00:25:05] we get to meet in heaven.

[00:25:06] We're like, we're Pam's friend.

[00:25:07] We're here with Pam.

[00:25:09] All those nations.

[00:25:10] Thank you for listening to Women Worth Knowing with Cheryl Broderson and Robin Jones Gunn.

[00:25:15] For more information on Cheryl, visit CherylBroderson.com or follow her on Instagram or Facebook.

[00:25:21] For more information on Robin, visit RobinGunn.com or follow her on Instagram or Facebook.

[00:25:26] Join us each week for a lively conversation as we explore the lives of well-known and not

[00:25:31] so well-known historical and contemporary Christian women.

[00:25:34] If you think there is a Women Worth Knowing, we'd love to hear from you.

[00:25:39] Email us at WWK at CCCM.com.

[00:25:44] We hope you've enjoyed today's episode.

[00:25:46] Make sure you rate us on your podcast app, subscribe, and share it with a friend.

[00:25:50] Thank you again for listening to Women Worth Knowing with Cheryl Broderson and Robin Jones

[00:25:55] Gunn.

[00:25:55] Women Worth Knowing is a production of Calvary Chapel Costa Mesa.