Tricia Goyer on Anne Bradstreet Part 1

[00:00:04] Welcome to Women Worth Knowing, the radio program and podcast hosted by Cheryl Brodersen and Robin Jones Gunn. Hello, listeners. We are so excited because you've asked for it and we're all working on it. And that is that you have asked for a compilation of some of the women that we've talked about on Women Worth Knowing to be put in book form. And guess what? We have. We're doing it. We're actually doing it.

[00:00:34] So I have submitted my my two stories. Robin submitted her two stories. But we also have the privilege, Robin and I, of working with some of our favorite authors from Trish Goyer, Michelle Yule, who you've heard on this program. And then Robin Pearson, who we will get on this program. Yes, we will. To talk to you. But today is one of my favorite people.

[00:01:00] I mean, I fell in love with Trish Goyer the first time that we Zoom called. I was like, who is this woman who reminds me of me? Sorry, Trish. But the enthusiasm and the passion for the Lord and for writing. And so, you know, Robin, you've been friends with Trish for a long time. And we had Trish. We did actually an interview with her. And we've got gotten a lot of feedback, Trish, actually, from that interview we did with you. Oh, good.

[00:01:30] It was all really positive, too. I mean, people fell in love with you. So they're going to want to read our book because you're one of the authors, too. That's true. Trisha, welcome. Thank you so much. I always love talking to you, too. We could we could honestly talk all day long. It's true. It's true. It's true. And today we've asked you to come to talk about a woman that Cheryl and I had on our list, but we hadn't gotten the time to research her. But you did.

[00:01:57] You have all the info on Anne Bradstreet. The only thing I know about her is that she was the first female American poet to be published and internationally, no less. So I hope you tell us lots of other things. But the reason that really stuck with me, I don't know how long ago I heard that.

[00:02:18] But I have always loved the story of Hannah in 1 Samuel 2, where after the Lord blesses her and confirms his favor on her, she writes a poem, a beautiful, beautiful poem. And here's the thing. It's still in print as writers. We love that. And it's over 4,000 years old and it's published internationally.

[00:02:45] So Anne, in my brain, has always had this kinship to Sweet Hannah, where writing poetry was an act of worship. Well, and Anne is a form of the name Hannah. I didn't know that. Yeah. This is getting better. Both of them mean grace. But, Trish, something interesting that you said before we came on air that I loved is that you had to narrow down all your research and all your writing. So much.

[00:03:14] And so that's really exciting because on this podcast, the listeners are going to hear things that can't go in the book. Because Robin and I are going to ask all those questions, all those probing questions. Just you wait. All the things that you wanted to say that you couldn't put in the book, you get to say now. So you have it here. Yes. Yes. Yes. We are ready, Trisha. Tell us about Anne Bradstreet. Okay.

[00:03:41] I have to do a little bit of people that don't know who I am are reminding. I'll remind them real quick because her life, I'm like, this is my twin that lived in the mid-17th century because Anne, she was a poet. She had eight children. I have 10 children. She had a wonderful, loving relationship. Thought her husband was the best ever. I'm married to John. Love him.

[00:04:10] But she wrote in the little midnight hours, in the early morning. Like she was caring for her family all during the day. She would stay up and write by candlelight. And the words were just there. And she just would get them down. And she loved a variety of subjects, history. She loved science. She wrote a wide variety. And I'm like, the more I would study her, I'm like, oh, I understand this. I get you. You are so amazing.

[00:04:38] So I love that I found this like kindred spirit. But Anne Dudley, she was born in 1612 in Northampton, England. And she was the daughter of Thomas Dudley. And he was a steward for the Earl of Lincoln. And her mother's name was Dorothy. And they were Puritans. And I do have to say, when we think of Puritan, like I think the first thing that comes into our mind is the Amish. Let me just think that they are very conservative. They don't have the luxuries of life.

[00:05:07] They are very kind of shut down in a way. Austere. Yes, it was completely different. They were very book learned. Her father had a huge library. Basically, he was a walking encyclopedia of the time. He allowed Anne to be a student in the home. Boys usually went away to school. But Anne was able to be tutored.

[00:05:35] So her dad worked for a well-educated person and a lord. And so she was able to be tutored with his children in their home. So she had a very, very good education. So she was born in England then? She was born in England, yes. Okay. Northampton, England. Northampton, right. Yes. Yes. And so her dad was a steward for the Earl of Lincoln.

[00:06:00] And so, again, these are the circles where they were very, very well off. But they were Puritans. So it would just be super conservative people. And this was before Oliver Cromwell and before everything happened. And I do want to just kind of put that in perspective for people. Because we hear about maybe different things that happened with the Puritans. William Penn is way later. Like this is early, early Puritans. Her family was.

[00:06:30] And so they were separatists. They believed in just living as the Bible said. They weren't controlled by the church. They just wanted to read God's word and do what they said. One pastor was John Cotton. And he would just preach from God's word. And so this whole family was very stirred by that. And this was also a time when people were just getting started going to the new world. And so they were going over.

[00:07:00] So Anne was only eight years old when the pilgrims went to Plymouth on the Mayflower. So this is like early, early pilgrim type families. And she was 16 when she actually came down with smallpox. And she didn't know if she was going to survive. But she did survive. And she ended up marrying someone that worked for her husband named Simon Bradstreet.

[00:07:28] And so they had a very loving relationship. I'm going to pause. She married. Pause. Pause. Pause. Pause. Pause. Pause. She married someone who worked for her father? Yes. Worked for her father. He was an assistant of her father. Okay. And what was her father doing at that time? He was well-educated with the library. And she had access to all that education. Yeah. So he was a steward to basically... Yeah. I guess I just don't know what that role is, to take care of the property. So the Earl of London, yeah.

[00:07:58] Oh, okay. Yes. The Earl of London was only 20 years old when he became an Earl. And he had tons of properties, tons of people working for him on his land and buildings and different houses. And so Anne's father, Thomas, was the one that cared for those things and kept the books. And then Simon kept Anne's father's books, like with his father's bookkeeper. And he took him kind of under his wing. Simon's dad died when he was a young man.

[00:08:27] And so Anne's dad kind of became this father figure to him. Let's stop for a minute because I want to put this in perspective for the listeners. This is during the time of probably, well, King James, where we get the King James Bible. Yes. Yes. So this is the time of King James and then Queen Anne. So Queen Anne's very interesting figure.

[00:08:51] But they were very tolerant of – they had a policy of tolerance towards Catholics and Protestants because the nation had been so divided and there had been so many civil wars. So I think that atmosphere, too, of this tolerance, which was appreciated by some and resented by others, of course, depending on what side of the divide you were on. So I just thought I wanted to put that in a little bit of perspective. Yeah, I love that.

[00:09:21] Me too. I love that. Yeah. And so Simon was 25 and Anne was 16. Wow. So looking back, I mean, that's just how things were back then. But they loved each other for a while. Also, I do have to kind of backtrack a little. When Anne was 14, she writes about how she felt she was very prideful and sinful and God really convicted her.

[00:09:44] So it was during that time she was kind of like looking at the world, like all the things the world had to offer, even as a Puritan young girl.

[00:09:52] Some scholars say they believe that she would go to plays maybe with some of the people in the Earl's household, maybe some of the other maids or some of his other family members, because her writing has bits of Shakespeare and has these different elements, Milton, that are outside what you would think a Puritan would be reading or watching during that time.

[00:10:16] And so she really turned her whole life over to God when she was 14 and decided she wanted to fully follow him and follow the Puritan ways. And then 16, she came down with smallpox, almost very ill, almost died, but recovered. And then later that year, married Simon. Wow. That's a lot for her young life. Yes. We're just getting started. Okay.

[00:10:45] So the next part of her life, Anne and Simon joined with her parents and they sailed to the Massachusetts Bay Colony aboard the ship Arabella with Governor John Withrup. And the voyage over, as we hear about, you know, the Mayflower and all these other things, there's a lot of sickness. There's a lot of storms. It lasted about three months. A lot of people died on there. It was very hard, hard. But, you know, they're like, we're going to get to land. We're almost there.

[00:11:14] And then we know this is the new world. The pilgrims have only been there eight years at this time, the Mayflower. So they're hardly getting started. In fact, when Anne and her husband, new husband, and her parents got there, a hundred people who had been in the new world got on the ship to head back to England. Oh, my goodness. We are out of here. Oh, my goodness.

[00:11:39] Well, you know, I remember reading that the pilgrims coming from, well, they came from Holland. But before that, having lived in England, that they were so shocked at how cold the weather was. You know, they probably thought they were immune to it, you know, growing up in England or Scotland. But coming to the new world, it was even colder. Can you imagine Boston, you know, in the winter? And it was, well, my daughter lives in New York, and it was eight degrees the other day.

[00:12:06] So you can imagine the shock and the hardship. Again, they don't have like the brick houses that they had in England. The comforts of the hearth at home. So you've got, you know, wind whipping through the wooden boards. You've got the constant threat of the Native Americans who don't understand them, who don't know why they're there. Quite a few Native American tribes were up in that area, too. Some of them hostile, some of them kind, you know.

[00:12:35] So this is the time of David Brainerd, too, isn't it? So David Brainerd, yes, right around the time when he was coming over and preaching and sharing with the Native Americans. And he was writing a gospel for them. Yes. Yeah. Excellent. That really puts it in, you know, kind of the time frame of, you know, people we're familiar with. You know, Jonathan Edwards, right? Yeah.

[00:13:01] And so also, you know, here her father, her husband had worked. They had done bookkeeping work. So they had, and her father had an extensive library. Most of it had to stay back in England. They did bring quite a bit of books with them. But a lot of that library of all his books got to stay. And now they're hunting. You know, they're growing up. They're like providing for the family. Right. And there's, in some of her poems, it talks about how hard things were.

[00:13:29] And then in some of her father's writings, it talks about, you know, this, it wasn't, this new land wasn't all they promised. So it was very, very difficult. Now, did she have any siblings? Yeah. So she had younger siblings. She had younger sisters, three younger sisters. I'm trying to remember. She had a brother. And so they, they probably came over too then, right? They did. Okay. Yes. She was the oldest at, so she was 16 when she got married, 18 when they traveled to the new world.

[00:13:59] Wow. And they first landed in, well, they first landed in Salem, Massachusetts, but then they moved to Charleston and then Newton. So they were really trying to find the area where they, where they needed to be. But her dad and her husband become prominent political figures in the colony. They became governors and they started ruling right away.

[00:14:25] So these are families that were very well established, very well respected. They had money. I mean, they came with items later. I don't, I'm kind of giving it a little bit away, but later her house burned down. Yep. I remember that. The whole library. And she talks about some of their trunks and their, their beautiful furniture they had brought over from England, losing those things.

[00:14:50] But she was saying, you know, first of all, she, you know, longed for those things, but also thankful they had them. And then, you know, at the end, praising God. But they came with wealth. They came with status. They came with people respected them. And so the fact that she's a Puritan and that she's a writer, which we really haven't brought that back, but she loved writing. And a lot of her early poetry was things that she had learned.

[00:15:20] And she wrote like science. And she had a huge poem about Queen Elizabeth and just how amazing she was. So, so again, for a Puritan, we kind of have, at least I did, a very kind of narrow-minded view of they just aren't involved in the world. Well, she was very educated. You know what? Yeah. And I'm thinking, too, that the fact that she's a woman writer, because you don't have the Brontes or Jane Austen until, you know, 100 years later.

[00:15:50] So this is really a novelty to have a female writer at this time. Yes. Absolutely. I want to bring that out, too. I mean, it's just with the exception of a couple of Reformers' wives and women in the Reform movement, you don't have a lot of writing by women. Yes. And a lot of modern day – so, you know, I've watched a lot of videos, read all the books, of course.

[00:16:16] A lot of modern day people call her a rebel, you know, and that she must have done it to defy her husband and father. But really, when you read her stuff, she was just born feeling like God gifted her with writing. She was still devoted to her family, making sure they were taken care of. And her father and her husband, they praised her. They let her. It wasn't like she was trying to rebel.

[00:16:41] And I think we kind of – modern day, we'll try to make her into a feminist and try to make her a rebel. And she was just a woman that loved her family and loved to write. And you know, writing – I love that. And that's what I can relate to. Yes. And writing is a compulsion almost. I mean, it's almost like it gets in you and you have to, like, put it down. You have to, you know, go to your typewriter or as Robin does to her, you know, pen and paper. You have to. And I know that compulsion, like, I have to write this down.

[00:17:10] I'm trying to remember a dedication in one of Ruth Bell Graham's books. I think it's sitting by my laughing fire. And the opening page – this is loosely shared because it's not exactly the words, but it's something like, I realized it was either write or go mad. I chose to write. Those of us who are writers understand that. It is. And, you know, sometimes the poems, they just flow.

[00:17:37] And it's a way to articulate your feelings. It's cathartic. For those of us who write, it's really cathartic. That act of worship going back to Hannah. Yes, I like that too. That it's just – I have to pour out what's in my heart. And God is so much of everything. Of course, what I write is going to reflect all of his power and goodness and involvement.

[00:18:01] But I just am so struck by the – right away, they're being elevated into – the men are being elevated into positions of leadership. So, again, that put a similar kind of responsibility on Anne and her mom to sort of be in that upper class kind of attitude, even in the new world, which didn't have a lot of society going on yet.

[00:18:29] Yeah, they were involved in helping to start Harvard University also. Really? That early. The whole time I'm researching, I'm like, this is like really, really, really early. They were doing all these things to bring education. Well, you know, Yale was started by Jonathan Edwards. He was, you know, one of the founders of Yale.

[00:18:51] So, at that time, and that was to educate people in the Lord because, you know, they felt so far away from – it's interesting how many of these, you know, top universities began as Christian endeavors. Absolutely. Yeah. Oh, I love this. Sorry. Keep going. You notice we haven't mentioned children yet. That's true. And so, for – she didn't have any children for four years.

[00:19:16] And a lot of her poems would talk about her prayers and praying for children. And so, it took four years. But then I'm thinking, that's a little stress because right when she got married, she got on the ship. And then she's going into a new world. She was kind of busy. And nutrition was probably not great. Yeah. Because there's a lot of people that died of hunger. The winters were horrible. People were going back because of the conditions.

[00:19:41] I'm thinking that might have had something – I mean, you know, I'm not a doctor or any expert on that. But I'm thinking that probably had something to do. But once they finally started to get settled, so she'd been two years in the new world, she had her first child, which was Samuel. And that was in 1633. I love it. Again, Hannah, her first child, Samuel. I know. I know. Yes. And then they moved to Ipswich, Massachusetts, where they – that's where they ended up really settling. And then she had seven more children.

[00:20:11] Oh, boy. Yeah. So, she had Dorothy and then Sarah and then Simon, Jr., Hannah, mercy, Dudley, and John. So, between 1633 and 1652, she had eight children. And she was busy. She was busy. She was busy being a mom and caring for them. Mercy, Dudley, stop fighting. I know. And educating them. Educating her children. Yeah.

[00:20:39] And this is what I'm like, homeschool mama that's writing poetry and all these kids running around. And, you know, her husband's well-respected and I'm sure involved in the community. I mean, I just love her so much. Well, we're falling in love with her, too. Did she have – they stayed in Ipswich for a while? That really was their settling place? Because that's a lot. That was where they stayed.

[00:21:04] To arrive in New England, go down to Charlotte and then – like, even moving up and down the coast was – Oh, Charleston. They moved to Charleston. Charleston. Charleston. Yeah. Salem to Charleston to Newton. And then they finally stayed in Ipswich. Now, the thing about Massachusetts, though, is that you have that, you know, the bay there. So that there's always ships coming from England. So you're not as isolated as you are maybe, you know, further south. That makes sense.

[00:21:34] That you do have some, you know, English goods coming over. Well, we know that there was tea. Yeah. Yes. But I love – I'm going to share just a couple lines from this poem. Oh, I love that. To my dear and loving husband. And it starts with, If ever two were one, then surely we. If ever man were loved by wife, then thee. If ever a wife was happy in a man, compare with me, ye women, if you can.

[00:22:02] I prize thy love more than whole mines of gold, or all the riches that the earth doth hold. I mean, this is, again, a sweet romantic love story. She just loved him. He had to travel because he was part in ruling in – Important. In the colonies. Important in the colonies. He would have to go to England for different things. And so she would just miss him.

[00:22:27] There's one poem that when he came back, she was just overjoyed that he was there, that he made it. Because this is not just like, you know, driving to the next town. This is like going across the ocean and all the dangers she'd been there. And just the trip itself would be three months over and three months back. So that's half a year gone. Yes. Yep. And then they had the kids and more kids and all the kids are running around.

[00:22:53] But she wrote – what else I loved about her is it reminds me of David, of the ups and downs of emotion. She didn't hold anything back. She shared when she was questioning God, like why did this happen, or worries. There's a poem that she wrote before the birth of one of her children. And remember, having eight kids during that time, there's a lot of mothers and children that died. That's right. In childbirth.

[00:23:20] And so there's one poem that she wrote that talked about if I die during having this baby, just remember my love and find a good woman that will raise my little kids. And I'm like, oh my goodness, like think not of your heart, think of my children basically. Like don't worry if you love them, just find someone to care for my children. And that was written before the birth of one of her kids. And so – Oh, Tricia. You know what?

[00:23:44] We have to break this into two parts because there's so much for us to hear about Anne Bradstreet. And I love just kind of closing down on that thought, just her deep love for her husband and her children. How many poems did she write? Oh, I have no idea. And did she keep it – That's one thing I didn't research. A lot. Okay. So one thing that comes up a lot in this is did she keep a journal or a diary?

[00:24:14] She had journals. She had diaries. At the end of her life, she wrote a memoir to her family, like God's faithfulness. I love that. Of remembering all that God had done for them. And she wanted them to remember her life and remember like the good things God had done. And anytime people would point out some of the difficulties, she would point to, you know, that we're going to be on the streets of gold in heaven. And we have – our riches aren't here. They're bound up with us, with God in heaven.

[00:24:43] And she pointed her family towards God. I guess if we're going to break, I'll break – I'll save some of the other losses that she had. But even during those losses, even during the hardships, her poetry was definitely pointing towards the eternal kingdom, which we all get to be a part of. And so one day I'm going to be hanging out. We're all going to be hanging out with Anne Bradstreet. Yeah. So that's part one of Anne Bradstreet.

[00:25:10] Thank you for listening to Women Worth Knowing with Cheryl Broderson and Robin Jones-Gunn. For more information on Cheryl, visit CherylBroderson.com or follow her on Instagram or Facebook. For more information on Robin, visit RobinGunn.com or follow her on Instagram or Facebook. Join us each week for a lively conversation as we explore the lives of well-known and not-so-well-known historical and contemporary Christian women. If you think there is a Women Worth Knowing, we'd love to hear from you.

[00:25:39] Email us at WWK at CCCM.com. We hope you've enjoyed today's episode. Make sure you rate us on your podcast app, subscribe, and share it with a friend. Thank you again for listening to Women Worth Knowing with Cheryl Broderson and Robin Jones-Gunn. Women Worth Knowing is a production of Calvary Chapel Costa Mesa.