Tricia Goyer on Anne Bradstreet Part 2

[00:00:04] Welcome to Women Worth Knowing, the radio program and podcast hosted by Cheryl Brodersen and Robin Jones Gunn. For those of you who tuned in last week, you know that we are on Skype with Tricia Goyer and we're talking about Anne Bradstreet.

[00:00:25] And so far, we have just been fascinated with this woman who was born in 1612 in England to a very upper class family and then got married at 16 years old and went to the new world. I was going to say it's not even the United States yet. It's just a whole new primitive world when she was only 18 and had to settle there. Had lots of moves, ended up having eight children.

[00:00:55] And yet through all of this, she writes this amazing poetry. So Trish, we just want to pick up right where we left off. Tell us about her children. Eight children. Eight children. I mean, children are a lot, but can you imagine? I mean, back then they were doing so much by hand and carrying and feeding and growing food and cooking all the things to care for her children. But she loved her children dearly. I do have to add in two.

[00:01:22] Anne, just like when she was 16 and had smallpox, she became ill again during these years when she was raising her kids. So she wrote about having, she said, I fell into a lingering sickness like a consumption together with lameness, which correction I saw the Lord sent to humble and try me and to do me good. And it was not altogether ineffectual. So as she's raising kids, her husband's often gone. She's also ill, like ill and has a hard time caring for them.

[00:01:52] But I love this poem that she wrote about her eight children. And she said, I had eight birds hatched in the nest. Four cocks there were and hens the rest. I nursed them up with pain and care. For cost nor labor did I spare. Till at the last they felt their wing, mounted the trees and learned to sing. Oh, that's beautiful. It's so darling. I just love it.

[00:02:18] You know, I'm thinking about, you know, I have a grandson who's staying with us right now who's five and busy, busy, busy, busy. And, you know, I'm thinking of all the distractions from Paw Patrol to other things that we have for him and toys and, you know, wheelbarrow in the backyard. And I'm thinking about how do you keep eight children entertained?

[00:02:39] You know, and there's eight beds to make, primitive beds, because the mattresses were probably, you know, filled with, you know, feathers and straw and anything they found. And mealtimes. Right. Yes. Mealtimes. And you think about it. Everything has to be from scratch. There's no box mixes. There's no market. There's a cow. You know, there's no doubt a cow. There are chickens. But, I mean, everything is laborious. And to find time to develop her own walk with the Lord.

[00:03:09] I think of Susanna Wesley, who talked about how she would lift up her apron over her head and pray for her children. And they knew to not, if the apron was up, don't bother mom. She's talking to Jesus, and it's probably about me. Yes. Well, you know, I think, too, about how she probably had to dry, you know, freeze dry or dehydrate a lot of the vegetables during the summer months to have all during the winter.

[00:03:36] Because in Massachusetts, nothing grows in the winter. And there's no market. She can't walk to the market. That's right. That's right. No general story, even. So these are primitive times and busy. But this is going to blow your mind, too. She was also very well aware of everything that was happening in England. Wow. So she had affections for England. They still called it their England, even though they were far away.

[00:04:04] She wrote a very long poem called The Four Ages of Man, where she looks at her life at the, talking about the attempt to kill James I, his entire parliament, the foul murder of Charles I. I mean, she's writing this huge poem. It's just the history of basically she's like the CNN news reporter or whatever. I don't know for the time. But she's putting it in poem. All these things that are happening.

[00:04:30] It's interesting that she was against the murder of Charles I because he was very Catholic and he was persecuting the Protestants. Right. So they didn't like that. She's just part. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. She's just I mean, she's saying, you know, you've gone too far. Well, her husband and her father are in leadership in the new world. So respect the leaders. Oh, yeah. Absolutely. It's to your own health. Yes. To teach respect.

[00:05:00] But this is I mean, that's really fascinating. And I mean, the political views, too, you know, because, again, James was tolerance. Charles I was intolerant. And that's he tried to storm parliament. Yeah. And it just speaks to Anne's brilliance. Yes. With all that education provided to her through her father's extensive library.

[00:05:25] And at that time, for a woman to be able to even have access to such a reservoir of books. Or even to be able to talk about politics for a woman to have an intelligent opinion is and to write it out. And while you're raising eight children. So at the time when. So I'm looking at my timeline here. When Charles I, when Oliver Cromwell took over, that was 1649.

[00:05:54] She had well, she didn't have all eight. She had seven. She had seven children as she's keeping up with all these politics of things that are happening. Now, wasn't Oliver Cromwell a Puritan also? Yes. So Oliver Cromwell was a Puritan. Not a nice one, but he was one. A nice one. So he was the one that was helped lead toward the execution of Charles I. Yeah. And so under his leadership, it then switched to what was called the Commonwealth of England.

[00:06:23] And Puritanism gained significant influence in England during that time. But again, a lot of it, it wasn't from the pure of heart. Like, not the Puritans that they were, which is the pure of heart, just trying to seek God. This is kind of pushing the royalists, the monarchy out of the way with the murder of Charles I. And so they're taking over. But even the Puritans are thinking they're going way too far in this. Well, he closed down all the Shakespeare theaters, too.

[00:06:53] Every theater. He made it a crime. Yeah. Yeah. He's not popular in Ireland, either. He persecuted the Irish and took away education from the Irish. I mean, he's not a nice person, just to say it. He's not a nice Puritan. Yes. He's not a nice person. He's not a nice. Let's see. He's not a personable Puritan. Right. So Anne wrote a lot of poems during this time.

[00:07:17] And it was during this time that her brother-in-law went over to England with a packet of her poems. And there's lots of different people saying that some people said she didn't know. Some people say she did know that he took him. She wrote the foreword for it. So I'm thinking she knew that he was trying to get that published. And then later, another historian found a letter between them where they were talking about the publication. But she didn't want to be prideful. This was another thing, too.

[00:07:47] Puritans weren't supposed to be prideful. So she would write often that God gave her the words, and he gave her this gift, and she's using the talents. And she saw how it brought light in the darkness. It was encouraging people. But she also didn't want to flaunt herself. And I think that's why they came like, well, you know, yes, you could take them. But, like, I don't want to be prideful. So it was kind of a – she let him publish it. And in case you do, here's the foreword. Here's the foreword to my poems.

[00:08:14] But this happened in 1650. Her first book of poetry was published. And that was a year after the execution of King Charles when Oliver Cromwell came into rule and Puritanism gained – it grew over the whole country of England. So her book fit in right with it. People must have been very curious, first, about the New World.

[00:08:44] Second, she was Puritan. And, you know, well, of course, she's a woman. And that was just almost unheard of, of a book of poetry from a woman, except for, like, little poems here and there. But this was the first book. So not only in the New World, but in England, this was the first book of poetry from an English woman. You know what's interesting about this, too? It's the time of John Bunyan. Yes, yes. So he was with Cologrom's Progress. That's right. Yep.

[00:09:13] So about the same time, John Bunyan. And he was imprisoned by Charles I. I have seen where that was in Bedford, England. Yes. But he wasn't released by Oliver Cromwell. Isn't that crazy? And so he didn't get released from prison until Charles II came in with the policy of tolerance. I just think how rare it was to be able to even get a book back then, even in England.

[00:09:43] And then how many people shared that volume or read aloud to each other? What a ministry. Really? Books are a ministry. And especially, finally, here's something written by a woman that women would relate to. There is just something about when a woman writes and, you know, talking about, you know, when she's talking about her children, we're both like, oh. Yes.

[00:10:07] Because immediately we key into that in a different way than a man would. Hundreds of years later. Yes. Yes. Yeah. I love it. And the title, this is the title, The Tenth Muse Lately Sprung Up in America. Okay. Say that one more time. The Tenth? The Tenth Muse, M-U-S-E, The Tenth Muse Lately Sprung Up in America. That's unusual. That's unusual. Now, why is she the Tenth?

[00:10:37] Yeah. What? There's nine muses in some, it was a Greek. Oh. Okay. Yeah. Classic education. Yeah. Mm-hmm. Okay. So she's the Tenth Muse. Ah. So she's not trying to, but her name wasn't on it. I was wondering. It's the prideful thing. You can't be prideful. Yes. Yes. Even though it was well known that she was the author and these were her poems. And she wrote about her family and her husband and her children. So. Mm-hmm. Yeah.

[00:11:07] And the New World. So what happened once the book was in print and going out everywhere? Oh, it just, it went out everywhere. So her, she heard news that it was published, but it took three years to, from the time, we know the publication. Say no more. From the time her brother-in-law left with the poems, it was three years, and then he, till it got published, and then he returned with a copy of her book.

[00:11:33] Um, and it really didn't change her life because she's in the New World. You know, everyone in England is talking about it and reading poems, but she's still caring for her kids, feeding them, writing more poems. And so it's not like she became a superstar because she was still in the New World. She was still, um, writing poems and just living a normal life. And so she, go ahead.

[00:12:00] The population of Ipswich, if it was a major city in those days, would have been still under 150 people. Yeah. So, you know, how, how, how famous can you be in a little place like Ipswich in, in the New World, you know? Yeah. So even though she became a public figure, she was really still taking care of the cows, you know, caring for her family. Pretty much hasn't changed. Yeah, I don't think so. Yes. Wow.

[00:12:29] And so, um, they were published over in England and she continued to write, um, the, she didn't have any more of her books published during her lifetime. So even though she wrote, um, but one of the biggest things, well, there's a couple of big things that happened in her life. And one of them was, um, their house burning down. And so at this time she had, I think her youngest was 14.

[00:12:55] Um, the three that were at home at the time, um, they're like 14, 16, and 19, right around those ages. And their whole house burned down, um, was completely lost. Now they're not sure if she was able to, um, run out with her poems or if there was something that was saved because her poem, her, her, a lot of her poems remained. So, I mean, if I, I can imagine that I'd be grabbing that, you know, now I'd be grabbing

[00:13:22] my notebook computer, but she probably grabbed her journal or they were able to, someone was able to grab her journal, but everything was lost. She had thousands of books in the house, um, furniture. And so she does have a poem that talks about the burning of her house. And, um, now is this the second fire? Cause wasn't the first her, her father's house burned, right? And then this is the second fire that she's experienced.

[00:13:52] Did her father's house burn? I don't know. Oh, okay. I thought, I thought that his house also burned. And then I think, well, we don't know. We'll have to wait and see. Yes. I don't know if her father's house burned. It could have burned. I don't remember that. I do remember her house with her kids and she loved everything, um, in that, in that burning of the house.

[00:14:18] And so, um, and then also during that time, one of the amazing things is, um, that her and by the time they were in North Andover, so the Bradstreet, this is in 1666, her family home in North Andover is burned down. It destroyed, uh, actually, um, my note says it did destroy many of her manuscripts too, but some of them survived because we have them that we're able to, able to read today.

[00:14:45] Um, but another thing that happened, even though all of her children survived to adulthood, which was very unusual for all eight of her children to survive to adulthood back then. Um, her, she lost her daughter-in-law and then she lost some of her grandchildren. And she does have poems about that, about losing these little ones. And, um, they were barely, you know, barely abreast, um, you know, and she, they lost them.

[00:15:12] And so there was a lot of pain and heartache from that. And so she had a lot of loss. She had a lot of joys and she wrote about it all. She wrote, I mean, I just picture her like every day, like whatever's on her mind, Anna's going to write about that. Um, there's a later, she wrote contemplations, which had a lot of her memory. She wrote a memoir that she wanted to, um, pass down and her family to remember who she

[00:15:41] was, um, one of her poems is called the weary pilgrim now at rest. And she says a pilgrim, I on earth perplexed with sins, with cares and sorrows vexed by age and pains brought to decay and my clay house moldering away. Oh, how I long to be at rest and soar on high among the blessed. And it goes on there and, um, it talks about, I'm going to jump to the end because it talks

[00:16:09] about, um, in weakness and dishonor sown in power to raise by Christ alone. Then soul and body shall unite and of thy maker have the sight. Such lasting joy shall be there behold as ear near heard, nor tongues are told Lord, make me ready for the day. Then come dear bridegroom, come away. Wow. That, that seems like it's taken from first Corinthians 15.

[00:16:39] I mean, that's like a poet looks at first Corinthians 15. Powerful. And I just get goosebumps. And this is the amazing thing is like these poems move me and she lived so long ago and that we can still relate. We understand the language. We understand the emotions. We could tell for her longing and, um, whatever, whether it was a happy poem, a sad poem, like

[00:17:05] she used emotion, which another thing we often think that Puritans, again, I don't know, we think kind of flat and very super conservative and social emotions. But her words were just very emotive and very, um, just evocative. Yeah. Yes. All these years later to be able, um, for us to connect with that. And then she ended up, um, passing away in 1672 and she was only 60 years old.

[00:17:35] She's younger than us, Robin. And she was buried in an unmarked grave. But that's old for that era of history. So. Especially if you're living in a house like she lived in and through a fire and, and everything. And where is she buried? She was buried in an unmarked grave because that's what was customary for Puritans. Really? Yeah. Oh, wow. I know. I wish, like, I'm like, I want to go. I know. To your grave, but you can't.

[00:18:00] Um, but later her work was, uh, more of her work was published. Um, but it took a while. It took a while for people to realize like, oh, how amazing she was. And so just to put this in context, she died in 1672 and it was in 1681 that William Penn went and founded Pennsylvania. This is, you know, she's already passed away by the time William Penn, because we think of him again as being, and he's, he's granted land by King Charles II. Right. Um, and then it starts Pennsylvania.

[00:18:29] But it, when I was, when I was researching this and going through the timelines and I'm like, oh, wow. Cause I don't know. I just kind of clumped people all together. You know, I think we do that in history, but she had already passed away and lived her whole full life with all her family before William Penn even got to the new world. Okay. So she was, let me just say that how wonderful that she did not, I'm sure the enemy tried to

[00:18:55] thwart her efforts, but for her, a woman of faith and emotion and conviction, and that she went forward and said, I'm going to write, I'm going to do this against all obstacles. And that it endures for us is, is, I don't know. I'd always feel like I want to stir up to fan that flame in those beginning writers who think, well, I don't think anyone would read it. I don't think it'll matter. But no, no, no. You don't know what God's going to do with your words.

[00:19:25] You just need to get busy and put the words on paper. Now, I'm thinking, too, she spent 42 years living primitively with eight children and writing. And you think her husband goes to England, but she didn't go back to England. She didn't have the opportunity to go back to any type of civilization. Because to think of this world as civilized, I mean, you'd have maybe a main street. It would be a boardwalk.

[00:19:54] Fires were very common in that day because the home was heated by a fire. The food was all cooked by the, you know, the hearth, the fire on the hearth. They didn't have ovens. It's a pot. Like camping for 42 years. Right. And if anything gets too close to that stove, it's going to catch on fire.

[00:20:18] I remember reading a book a long time ago about a little girl who found a doll in the woods. It's about that. It's about this. This happened in the 1800s. And they put it on the stove to dry it out. And the doll started moving all around because they realized the doll had been stuffed with popcorn. But that's the time, you know. So, I mean, they would have made all their toys. You know, she would have been sewing the kids' clothes.

[00:20:46] I mean, you think of how difficult her life would have been. I mean, she's having to sew to mend by a candlelight. And she's writing her poems by probably candlelight to the hearth and then losing everything. Having, you know, just getting a certain level of almost sophistication and then losing it all. And starting over again. Tricia, what about the kids? Do we know what they went on to do or be? Yeah. I mean, they all went on.

[00:21:16] So, I stopped the book at Robin. Yes. Because I already had so many words. But no, they were all good people. Her son lost his wife and I think two infant children. So, I mean, they had hardships. And the loss of her grandchildren really, really was hard on her. Which I can't even imagine. No, I can't either. I did not go and continue to research where her children went and all the things.

[00:21:46] But, I mean, what a godly example she was. And the fact that her last years, when she was mostly bed bound, she spent writing her memoir for her children. I'm so glad she did. So that they may know. Yes. Yes. They may know about her life. But I wanted to read something about her. Oh, yes. From her fire. Because it talks about, it says, Then coming out, so this talks about the fire happening. It says,

[00:22:12] Then coming out, behold the space, the flame consumed my dwelling place. And when I could no longer look, I blessed his name that gave and took, that laid my goods now in the dust. Yea, it was so, and so twas just. It was his own. It was not mine. Far be it that I should repine.

[00:22:37] He might of all justly bereft, but yet significant, sufficient for us left. And then she goes on. And just basically, she's like, it was yours all along. It wasn't even mine. The Lord gives and the Lord gives away. Yeah, Job. And at the end it says, Yet by his gift is made thy own. There's wealth enough. I need no more. Farewell myself. Farewell my store. The world no longer let me love.

[00:23:06] My hope and treasure lies above. Oh. Oh. So she loses everything. So beautiful. Everything burns down. She's like, it was, he gives and he takes it away, which reminds me of Job. Yes. Gives and takes it away. And here's my, there's wealth enough. I need no more. She had everything she needed. She doesn't need those things anymore. And that my hope and treasure lies above. I'm like, I want to be. Yes.

[00:23:35] Like to see my house burn. And then to write my hope and treasure lies above. I don't need those things. Thank you for letting me have them during the time I had them. But I don't need it anymore. And this is why we love talking about women worth knowing because we, we need those role models. We need to be reminded. I love this, Tricia. Thank you for bringing her to us. And I think too, what happens is, you know, we know that name. We've heard. Yes. You know, the name before.

[00:24:02] But we didn't know the story, the context, the eight children. And we really, you know, I've heard some of those lines before, but never knew. What a deep heart for God she had. That they, that they belonged to, you know, to Bradstreet. I never knew. Yeah. So, I mean, incredible. Thank you so much, Tricia, for bringing that to us. We're going to, we're at the close of our program.

[00:24:30] But again, there's going to be more in this book that's coming out. Lots of women to talk about. Yes. Yes. In fact, we each contributed two women. And we are really excited. I can't wait to read this book. I know. I know. I'm not going to read my chapter. I want to read everybody else's. Tricia, we're going to have you back as often as we can. Yes. We love you. Can't wait. Thank you. Thank you again. And that was such a great program. And we're going to have other guests coming on with stories just like this.

[00:25:00] And look for our upcoming book, too, which will be out who knows when. God knows. Thank you for listening to Women Worth Knowing with Cheryl Broderson and Robin Jones Gunn. For more information on Cheryl, visit CherylBroderson.com or follow her on Instagram or Facebook. For more information on Robin, visit RobinGunn.com or follow her on Instagram or Facebook.

[00:25:27] Join us each week for a lively conversation as we explore the lives of well-known and not so well-known historical and contemporary Christian women. If you think there is a woman worth knowing, we'd love to hear from you. Email us at WWK at CCCM.com. We hope you've enjoyed today's episode. Make sure you rate us on your podcast app, subscribe, and share it with a friend. Thank you again for listening to Women Worth Knowing with Cheryl Broderson and Robin Jones Gunn.

[00:25:56] Women Worth Knowing is a production of Calvary Chapel Costa Mesa.