A Roundtable On Fatherhood

[00:00:12] Alright, hey everyone. Welcome to episode 176 of the Jesus Famous podcast. We exist to see Jesus

[00:00:20] honored, glorified, loved, esteemed, appreciated, adored, revered and followed Jesus Famous in your

[00:00:27] everyday life. I'm Nate Holdridge, your host today and pastor of Calvary Monterey on the

[00:00:32] California Central Coast. I preach about Jesus Famous on Sundays but like to write and podcast

[00:00:38] about Jesus Famous during the week at NateHoldridge.com. Our show consists of interviews and discussions

[00:00:45] and stories that we think will help propel you further into an appreciation of Jesus. On today's

[00:00:52] episode, we're going to have a round table discussion with a group of men, fathers and pastors

[00:01:01] that I serve with here at Calvary Monterey. I admire every one of these guys as dads and you

[00:01:06] are really going to enjoy this discussion. If you're a want to be father, hoping to have kids at

[00:01:13] some point in the future. If you're an older father who's trying to figure out how to father your

[00:01:18] adult children. If you're just getting started whatever stage you're at I think you're going

[00:01:23] to enjoy this conversation. Each man around the table has a different perspective. Some of them

[00:01:29] are just getting started in their role as a dad. Others of them are in their latter or

[00:01:35] older years of parenting their kids. Each man at the table has a different background. Some of us

[00:01:41] had both of our parents raising us. Others of us only had our mom raising us. Some of us

[00:01:48] lived in toxic homes and environments as you'll hear as the episode progresses. But having

[00:01:55] done this recording already, I know you're going to be greatly encouraged by this episode. Stick

[00:02:00] around for the very end when Pastor Manny gives a rock solid exhortation to close out our time

[00:02:08] together. So I know you're going to be blessed by this conversation and thanks again for listening

[00:02:14] to the Jesus famous podcast. All right, here we are with the guys in the studio and we're

[00:02:27] getting ready to talk about being a dad. You might be listening to this episode,

[00:02:34] you know, really at any point we're releasing it near Father's Day. So kind of an on calendar or on

[00:02:42] brand episode. But you know, it's going to be timeless in nature. It's not just how to this

[00:02:48] is a podcast on how to navigate Father's Day. It's a it's going to be a discussion about

[00:02:53] how to be a dad. And I've already talked about some of the guys have gotten the studio with

[00:03:00] me, but these are all pastors that I respect and have served with for many years here at Calvary

[00:03:06] Monterey. And we're going to go around the table for all of these questions today. And we're going

[00:03:12] to start with just kind of an icebreaker introduction to each guy. And what I'm looking for first

[00:03:18] is to get their dad stats, you know, how long have you been a dad? How many kids you got?

[00:03:24] And you know, that type of thing so we can can know where you're coming from. And then

[00:03:30] just an icebreaker question. What is one of your favorite dad survival tips? So I'm going to start

[00:03:38] with Pastor Riley Monzo first Riley. Welcome to the show man. Once again, my longtime co-host.

[00:03:45] Hey, good to be back. It's good to see you. Well, I'm the youngest dad here I think.

[00:03:50] I have been a dad for two and a half years. Have a daughter. Her name is Meadow Joy. She's

[00:03:57] just the best little girl. I just love being a dad. My wife and I have been married for seven years.

[00:04:03] So we started a few years into marriage. I'm having kids. And you want me to go into my dad's

[00:04:09] survival tip? Yeah, man. What's one of your favorite dad survival tips? Well,

[00:04:13] um, my favorite thing to do since being a dad has been naps. I've turned into a nap guy. I don't

[00:04:21] know if you guys are nap guys, but oh heck yeah, I do the 20 minute nap kind of midday when my daughter

[00:04:26] goes down for a nap. I usually go down for a nap too about 20 minutes. Any longer is brutal,

[00:04:31] but 20 minutes has been good. It just gives me enough juice to get through the day. So

[00:04:37] that's really helped out especially during bedtime at night. I don't fall asleep when she's

[00:04:40] falling asleep. That's great. You stay awake. I stay awake to tuck her in. Yeah, that's good.

[00:04:45] I was curious if it was like a, is it a simultaneous nap? Meadow snapping and your

[00:04:50] napping. So it sounds like you will take advantage because I know there's a little bit

[00:04:54] of pressure when they take a nap. It's kind of like you feel the pressure like,

[00:04:58] I gotta get stuff done. This is my time to shine now, but you will indulge.

[00:05:03] She goes down. I go down. I like it. Yeah. I like it. All right. And then the next

[00:05:08] pastor and man and father that I've got with me is a pastor, Mike Casey. Mike, what are your

[00:05:15] dad's stats? And what's one of your favorite dad survival tips? Well, I have been a dad

[00:05:21] for 37 years, which is kind of surprising to me. And I think for me, I have a unique

[00:05:31] time of being a father because the first probably half of my kid's life I was not present.

[00:05:37] My two oldest, Ryan and Sarah were in high school when I got sober and met Christ.

[00:05:45] My youngest two were in middle school and my youngest was being homeschooled.

[00:05:49] And so I would say I didn't really even start becoming a father until the two

[00:05:55] oldest were halfway through their lives. And so I think for me it's just being

[00:06:01] present with your kids because all kids really want is a parent. They're not looking for

[00:06:09] perfection. They're not looking for always the always the right answer or the right thing.

[00:06:16] They just they want their mom or their dad to be in their life, whatever that looks like. And my

[00:06:21] kids never gave up that hope. And so I would say for me it's just being present in their

[00:06:27] lives and to watch all of those years of disappointment just wash away like the blood

[00:06:34] of Christ and just watch them be accepting and happy to have a dad regardless. So I get to see

[00:06:39] them at church now as a pastor. And it's like, it's a whole new ball game. And they're proud

[00:06:47] of me and I'm proud of them. And it's just a joy watching them grow and watching Christ work

[00:06:53] in their lives. Hey man bro, that's the reason that I wanted to have you be part of this discussion.

[00:07:00] You know if I've got Riley on as the guy who's like, hey, you've got a little toddler running

[00:07:06] around and you're just brand new your marriage has been intruded on by this new life and person.

[00:07:13] I wanted to have you on because you're an excellent dad and I know that that's your

[00:07:18] past and your history. And I've watched how you have just thrown yourself into the lives of your

[00:07:25] children, your adult children and you're there for them. You're always barbecuing with them and

[00:07:29] doing stuff. You're one of the busiest guys I know, but you make time for your kids and it's

[00:07:33] really stood out to me how they have embraced you as dad. Even though those younger years

[00:07:40] you wish you could have done them a little bit differently. And I'm sure you're not the only

[00:07:43] person, you know, there's plenty of people listening to this today. And you wish that

[00:07:48] your past had been different as a dad, but God has something new for you in the future. You can't

[00:07:54] change what has come or what has already occurred, but you can change what will happen in the years

[00:08:00] to come. So Mike, thanks so much for giving us that encouragement. The next pastor I got with me

[00:08:07] is Pastor Manny Colazo. Hey, hey, Manny and I have known each other for many years. Manny,

[00:08:13] what's your, what are your dad stats and what's one of your favorite survival tips? I can't

[00:08:17] wait to hear this. Well, we started super early having children. I was 21 when I had my first son

[00:08:24] and a few years later we had our second son. I've been a dad for 28 years. My oldest, they're both

[00:08:29] boys. They're both men grown up. We've successfully launched them out of the house. My oldest is

[00:08:34] going to be 28. So he's 27 now. My youngest will be 25 this Sunday. Wow, Jonathan. And

[00:08:42] super proud of both of them. They're two adult men that I'm just, I've loved being their dad.

[00:08:48] It's been hard at times, but super blessed. My dad's survival tip to quote Ronald Reagan,

[00:08:58] trust but verify. Hey, you know, you want to trust your kids. You want to believe in them.

[00:09:05] You want to believe the best. I mean, you've invested yourself into them. You want to be

[00:09:08] able to, man, I've done a good job and they're going to make great decisions. I trust you,

[00:09:13] but I'm a verify and the survival has been always having that healthy sense of skepticism

[00:09:19] about what they say, what they're telling me. I don't ever want to be caught by surprise or

[00:09:23] like, I can't believe you did or you said what? I trust them, but I'm going to verify.

[00:09:28] Just have that healthy sense of skepticism so you're not caught flat footed.

[00:09:32] That's great. I love that you and Denise are such intentional parents

[00:09:37] and really it seems like the two of you talk a lot, strategize a lot, think a lot about

[00:09:45] the next stage of your kids lives, how we're going to react, what we're going to do.

[00:09:51] And you guys kind of come together before the, whether it's emergency or question or

[00:09:58] proposal or whatever is coming. You guys are ready for it before it happens. I love that.

[00:10:03] I love that trust, but verify. And then the last man in the room with me as pastor,

[00:10:11] Matt Kailer and Matt's wife, Bree actually helped me put together a similar discussion

[00:10:18] for mothers and was part of that discussion a number of weeks ago here on the Jesus famous

[00:10:23] podcast. So if you're listening to this today and you're feeling like, man, I'm

[00:10:27] vibing with this and this is really helpful. I wish there was something for my bride

[00:10:33] for the mom of my kids. Then you can just go back in the archive and listen to that. But

[00:10:39] Matt, welcome and what's, what are your stats and what's one of your favorite dad's survival tips?

[00:10:46] Man, it's so good to be here. Nate, thank you. So we've got two boys,

[00:10:50] Canon, who at the time this is released is 10, which is crazy to think about. And crew is

[00:10:57] five. So we've got two boys kind of in that elementary age range. So to all the dads who

[00:11:04] are listening out there, we're right in that spot and a survival tip. You know, I read this and I

[00:11:09] thought, when do I feel like I'm needing to survive? And I think when the moment that made me think

[00:11:18] is when I'm there with one of my boys or both of my boys and we're trying to do something

[00:11:25] and they're not really feeling it, right? Cause there's moments where we're trying to get our kids

[00:11:30] in the car. We're trying to get our kids to pay attention or, you know, these different kinds

[00:11:35] of things. And what do we do because I know I want to, you know, naturally get frustrated or lose

[00:11:41] my patience. And I think a survival tip honestly is just the power of laughter in a moment like

[00:11:48] that to just kind of break the tension, never underestimate the power of a good little tickle,

[00:11:54] right? Just kind of a tickle attack. Works better on my five year old than it does on my

[00:11:59] 10 year old right now. But honestly, I mean moments where you just pick them up, you just throw them

[00:12:04] up in the air almost just to like, let's just get out of this funk that we're in. So power of

[00:12:08] laughter. I think I try to use that one. Don't laugh at your kids. That one doesn't work as

[00:12:12] well. Yeah, you've tried that as well. I've tried that too. Yeah. I love that. That's

[00:12:17] so good. I think it speaks to the role of a dad as a leader. You know, you're setting

[00:12:23] the tone in your home. You're setting the environment whenever the family is together. And that

[00:12:29] doesn't mean that you have to be the dominant personality. Your wife might have more of a

[00:12:34] dominant personality than you do. She might be more effusive or praise more easily or

[00:12:40] be the funnier person, although both you and Brie are funny people. But what it does

[00:12:45] mean is that your kids are always looking at you, you know, wondering how's dad feeling?

[00:12:52] What's dad thinking? And so when you're in those tense moments and you bring the levity

[00:12:58] and you help them laugh, it's like you're serving them in a neat way. So I love that.

[00:13:04] All right. So we're going to get into our round table questions now that you guys have

[00:13:08] a little feel for each one of these men that are with me at the table today.

[00:13:14] And the first question I'm going to ask is what is one of your favorite things

[00:13:19] about being a dad? I like starting here because being a dad is a blessing. And

[00:13:27] I think sometimes when we're considering or consuming content on parenting as believers

[00:13:33] and Christians, sometimes we can lead with the pain, the agony, the sacrifice, the suffering.

[00:13:41] And of course those things lead to joy in our lives. They help shape us and mold us into

[00:13:47] the image of Christ. But it's a privilege to be a father. And so I thought it'd be great for us to

[00:13:53] start with something positive. What's one of your favorite things about being a dad? So rightly,

[00:13:57] I'll go to you first. I just, I have to say, I love the way you queued that up because

[00:14:02] I really think the same thing too. It's a real privilege being a dad. And yes, there's

[00:14:07] hard moments. Things change so much when you become a dad than when you're married or

[00:14:14] even when you're single. And things change, but change doesn't mean bad. It just means different

[00:14:20] adapting and finding a new groove. And that's a good thing to be able to do. So I love being a dad.

[00:14:28] My girl is two and a half. She's pretty talkative, but she doesn't actually say like full on

[00:14:33] sentences. Like we're not having big conversations or anything right now. So I think for me,

[00:14:38] my favorite thing to do with her, my favorite thing about being a dad right now

[00:14:42] is just doing things with her. She's like my little buddy. I wake up with her in the morning and we

[00:14:46] make breakfast together. She always notes when she wakes up that she's going to get a little

[00:14:51] gummy vitamin, a hard boiled egg, an egg. She's going to butter her toast. I'm going to put

[00:14:56] a little bit of butter on her finger so she can eat it. And I'm going to put her on the counter

[00:15:01] and her PJs and we're just going to hang out, you know? Can I come over for breakfast?

[00:15:06] Yeah, whenever you want. I'll put some butter on your finger for you too.

[00:15:10] Thank you, Ryan. Is that a similar routine every morning?

[00:15:12] Every single morning. She loves it. She will never forget that man.

[00:15:16] Yeah, she just loves it. So that's my favorite thing about being a dad right now

[00:15:20] is just doing stuff with her, showing her how to be in the kitchen,

[00:15:24] how to do things around the house. I just love it. It's so fun.

[00:15:28] That's so great. I mean, I've seen Meadow in action talking and you say,

[00:15:35] they're not full sentences. I'm here to tell you bro, those for a two and a half year old

[00:15:40] those are full sentences. She's full on girl. Yeah, she's a little woman and she's going to be

[00:15:45] talking for her whole life. So that's great that you're laying that groundwork and just,

[00:15:50] I think to me that highlights the importance of dads. We got to enjoy our kids. Enjoy them.

[00:15:56] They're all different. You know, you might have a child that's got a learning disability.

[00:16:01] You've got kids that have different difficulties and challenging parts of their personalities.

[00:16:06] You've got kids that you can't relate to, you know, I was talking to a parent the other day

[00:16:10] where they're worrying a little bit. They're like, I'm not a sports person. My husband's not a sports

[00:16:15] person. I'm worried my boy is going to be a sports person. But she said, but we're down for it.

[00:16:21] If that's what happens, we will enjoy that with them. And I think that's so important and

[00:16:27] you're just laying that groundwork and it is never too late to start doing that to show

[00:16:34] interest in your kids to just sit with them, be in the room with them, be about what they're about.

[00:16:41] It means so much to them when you do that. So good job, Rye. You're laying a great foundation

[00:16:49] there with Meadow. Mike, what's one of your favorite things about being a dad?

[00:16:53] Well, I kind of have a two-part answer to that. I would say my number one favorite thing is at

[00:16:58] some point you realize when you're talking to one of your kids that you've made the

[00:17:03] transition from parent to friend that not only are they calling you to ask you for advice or your

[00:17:11] input or your feedback on a situation, they're just calling to talk to you and tell you what's

[00:17:16] going on in their lives. Just like a friend. It's so refreshing just to be a part of their

[00:17:20] lives and know that yeah, they still want answers to questions, but you're just a part of

[00:17:28] their lives. They choose to be your friend. They want to be a part of your life and they want to

[00:17:32] share things with you and it's so much fun. I called my daughter the other day and she was out at the

[00:17:37] pool. They were playing pickleball. They were watching the girls swim and it's just like,

[00:17:41] this is just nice just to have a conversation with somebody that's like a friend that,

[00:17:47] you know, is your child you raised her? But now the relationship is,

[00:17:52] you're always going to be the parent, but now you just have a whole new level

[00:17:55] of relationship and it's so enjoyable to be at that level with your kids.

[00:17:59] And I would say number two, which should probably be number one is grandkids.

[00:18:04] That is like so good. I get in trouble all the time. A few years ago, I took my two oldest to

[00:18:13] hometown buffet and I sent their mom a picture of their seventh ICs that they were having

[00:18:20] and then I made the mistake of sending her a picture of the eighth we got on the at seven,

[00:18:26] loving on the way home. And then later she sent me a picture of some dishes that they broke because

[00:18:30] they were running around going crazy and just never again, dad, never again. Oh, I love it.

[00:18:36] Mike, you're doing it right. Yeah. Fill them full of sugar and send them home.

[00:18:40] That's so good. Yeah. You know, that's so encouraging to think about

[00:18:45] that as a goal for where you're trying to go towards with your children. I'll admit there are

[00:18:51] plenty of times where a lot of times a mom or a dad with maybe a preteen or teenage child will

[00:18:58] say something to me like my kid is just my best friend. And when they're in that stage of life,

[00:19:05] I just want to say, no, they don't need you to be their best friend. They need a mentor.

[00:19:11] They need a guide. They need a support system. They need leadership. They need someone to listen

[00:19:17] to them. They need a counselor, but they're not your best friend. You got to go to other people

[00:19:23] for that. But then to hear that, you know, as they then launch into adulthood and they

[00:19:29] settle into maturity, they don't need you in that same way anymore. And to hear a man saying,

[00:19:35] I shifted gears and now I just really love that part of my relationship with my kids where

[00:19:40] I can be friends with them. Man, that's powerful. I know a lot of dads don't make that transition.

[00:19:47] You see a lot of fathers, what you want is to be needed. I need my kids to need me. But what's

[00:19:56] going to happen when you've done your job and they don't need you no more? Can you enjoy

[00:20:01] them? And I hear you saying that Mike, I love that. Manny, what's one of your favorite

[00:20:07] things about being a dad? Well, as I've ever since God blessed me with children, I've never been one to

[00:20:15] hang on to them tightly. I hold onto them loosely open-handed knowing that they're a gift from God

[00:20:20] and that eventually, you know, I have to release them and all through all the stages

[00:20:25] from birth till I finally launched them. It was releasing, releasing, giving them more rope,

[00:20:30] giving them more rope until I finally took the rope and handed it to them. So now it's on you.

[00:20:35] So as they've grown through, there's different stages. This brought me great joy to release

[00:20:42] and not to long for, oh, I wish they were a baby and still hang on. So for me what brings me great joy

[00:20:47] was is to see them connect the dots as they progress through these different stages. Like I

[00:20:53] remember one of the things they were raised on with me as they were little kids telling them,

[00:20:58] hey man, you need to make a decision either you pay now and play later or you play now

[00:21:04] and then you're going to have to pay later. And to hear them repeating those things

[00:21:08] with their friends, you know, another one was my youngest son just told me this the other day,

[00:21:14] you know, as he was applying for work looking for jobs and goes in for a job interview. So

[00:21:19] one of the things I taught him when they were first looking for work and now that he's on

[00:21:23] his own looking for work on his own was, hey, don't go in desperate, you know, to a job.

[00:21:30] The fact that there's an opening lets you know that they need somebody, they need you. You need

[00:21:35] to convince them why you're the man for the job and that switch in their mind just produced so

[00:21:40] much more confidence in them and to see them make those make those connections and embrace some of

[00:21:46] those principles that I taught them and preparing them for adulthood as you've done. That's my

[00:21:51] favorite. That's my favorite part. So let me ask you as a follow up. I know you're

[00:21:57] bride Denise and she's a, she's a strong person. So maybe this isn't applicable, but I'm just curious,

[00:22:05] did you find over the years when those different moments came of releasing? Did God have you serving

[00:22:13] a role in your marriage where you were communicating to your bride, Hey, this is something we gotta

[00:22:20] do. Like was it easier and more natural for you or did you guys both jump into that

[00:22:26] together in tandem or not? I find in my marriage, you know, Christina being such a nurturer and as

[00:22:34] our kids are getting older and going off to college and all of that. I do feel a little bit that role

[00:22:40] sometimes like I need to paint a picture of what the future is going to look like and how our

[00:22:47] current decisions color the way that that future will look. Not that she's clinging on

[00:22:54] to them. She knows we got a release as well, but I feel sometimes that pain that's there for her a

[00:22:59] little more acutely than maybe it is for me. I know we've, I think you'd have to double back

[00:23:05] and verify with her before speaking, but if I remember correctly, we were both pretty much on

[00:23:10] the same page that we were raising men here, you know, and we were preparing them for life.

[00:23:16] I'd like to use the phrase, um, we want to raise marriageable men. Yes. Not necessarily

[00:23:22] that everything's about marriage, but that they possessed the qualities, the character qualities

[00:23:28] that the men of character that a woman would look and say, I want you. I want to be with you. I feel

[00:23:35] safe with you. I feel protected with you. They possessed those qualities. And so she was,

[00:23:40] she parented with the end in mind. So she was down for it. Yeah, I like it.

[00:23:47] Thank you, Manny. That was a good one. Matt, how about you? What's one of your favorite

[00:23:51] things about being a dad? Yeah, I'll manage so many. Honestly, you guys have some really good ones,

[00:23:57] but I think, you know, to be able to watch my boys and have them achieve, um,

[00:24:04] in areas of athletics that I wasn't, and then to be able to, I can't think of the word for

[00:24:11] vicariously is a good word. Yeah. Um, just kidding. No, I think my favorite thing about

[00:24:16] being a dad, honestly, um, it's just to hear them say my name. There's no, there's no other two

[00:24:23] humans in this world that can call me dad. There's just something so special about that.

[00:24:29] So, you know, one of my favorite moments you kind of describe Riley, you know, Meadow

[00:24:35] in the mornings, I love that time. I love when they crawl out of bed, hair is all messed up.

[00:24:41] They're still waking up and they just want it, you know, right now,

[00:24:44] you know, cannon comes out and he wants to chat and for crew, he wants to come out.

[00:24:49] He wants to snuggle. You know, those are just sweet times. So all of those, those special times,

[00:24:54] but then I think just doing life together, laughing together, playing catch together is just

[00:24:59] the best. I love, I love shaping our boys. Um, so I'm a big, I'm a big fan. Yeah. Just so many

[00:25:06] different things. I think peering into your family, I've seen that you guys love to create

[00:25:11] moments and experiences with your boys, you know, and our family is similar in that way. You know,

[00:25:16] we like having the vacation time together and those times where you just cut loose and relax

[00:25:24] and laugh. Yeah. There is nothing like that. You know, when, you just love that feeling

[00:25:29] as a dad where it's like every, it's like on greased tracks right now. Like everybody's good.

[00:25:35] The conversations are good. We're laughing. Our stomachs hurt because in our cheeks hurt

[00:25:40] because we're just having such a good time. Yeah, that's a sweet part of being a dad for sure.

[00:25:46] All right. Well now that we've talked about that, the next question I want to get into is

[00:25:51] what's difficult about being a dad and you know, how have you faced or overcome that difficulty?

[00:25:56] Obviously there's lots of things that are difficult. You know, it's a responsibility being

[00:26:02] the man of the household. It's a responsibility being the leader in your marriage is a responsibility

[00:26:09] being a provider and protector and defender and to be thinking through the future, you know,

[00:26:15] and sometimes that responsibility it can be overwhelming, you know, because the problems

[00:26:20] are complex. The issues are seemingly never ending. And of course in the times that we're living in

[00:26:26] now, there's so many things that we fear and that we're worried about and concerned about

[00:26:31] and those things can grate upon any parent, mother or father, almost to the point sometimes

[00:26:38] where you feel like, man, what did I do getting into this? This is such a huge responsibility.

[00:26:43] And I'm looking at our producer Dan right now who's just thinking about his future not yet having a

[00:26:48] kid, but he's thinking, oh man, what am I going to do in the future? God will be there with you,

[00:26:53] bro. But let me start with you, Ryan. What's difficult about being a dad and how have you

[00:27:00] faced or overcome that difficulty? Yeah, as a great question. I mean, like I mentioned earlier,

[00:27:05] being a dad is such a privilege, you know, but there's inevitably hard things and I have to be

[00:27:11] honest, like with me and my daughter, she's healthy. She's strong. There's nothing really to worry about

[00:27:18] with her. I feel very blessed. So my level of hardship has been very low on the scale of

[00:27:26] what could be. No, a lot of people who are probably listening to this have different

[00:27:31] issues with their kids or just with themselves. And so I don't have very many of those things to

[00:27:37] work through, but I am highly introverted. And so my rest time has been shot being a dad.

[00:27:47] I remember I used to stay up late, I watch movies and I'd wake up late and go rock climbing and

[00:27:53] go on day trips. And I can't remember the last time I did a day trip. It's like, what is that anymore?

[00:28:01] But we have fun. We go on trips and stuff. But I found that my recharge time looks so different

[00:28:09] now. And so I wake up a bit earlier than I ever thought I'd ever wake up. And I take naps now.

[00:28:16] The whole thing is just different now. I get fed in a different kind of way. I have to be very

[00:28:22] conscious about what I put into my body, into my mind, into my ears, in front of my eyes.

[00:28:28] Because it's all taking energy or giving energy. And so I've found that I've had to relearn

[00:28:34] how to rest. And I've had to really find my rest truly in Jesus and in my time with him and

[00:28:42] come to a deeper understanding of what it means to really rest in the Father, receive his love,

[00:28:47] receive his peace, walk in his way. It just has a whole different meaning now as a dad because I'm

[00:28:53] finding that you can kind of get through life not doing that in a lot of ways. But when you become

[00:28:59] a dad and you take on this unique burden and responsibility, you can't cut corners as much

[00:29:06] anymore. It's really important to follow Jesus and to come under that grace. And so

[00:29:13] that's been huge for me. But I've found that through all that transition that there's been

[00:29:17] a really great reward in it too. The Proverbs say that if you crack under pressure,

[00:29:23] you're not strong enough. And every time I read that, I'm like, oh my word, dude, I gotta get

[00:29:27] stronger. I gotta get stronger. I don't want to crack for my daughter, for my wife. And so

[00:29:33] these changes to my introverted nature, I feel like God has helped me become more

[00:29:39] disciplined through it. And that's been a real gift. So I feel like there's been an evolution

[00:29:45] that's happened, but it's come through some difficulty. Obviously, I think that's how it

[00:29:49] always works. But that's probably like the hardest thing for me. I love it, man. I'm so,

[00:29:53] I'm so glad that you opened up about that because it hits on a couple of levels. You

[00:29:58] know, I mean, one just opening up about the introversion thing, you know, because

[00:30:03] that's real for a lot of people. And the reality being that, man, you're just not going to have the

[00:30:09] same kind of time that you used to have. I'm similar to you in that way. And yeah, that when we started

[00:30:15] cranking out kids, that was the time in my life that I became a very early riser in the morning,

[00:30:20] partly because I just knew like, I do need time with the Lord. But partly I need time with

[00:30:26] the Lord alone by myself. This might be the only time that someone's not talking to me today.

[00:30:35] I think secondarily, men that are like that in women that are like that as well,

[00:30:41] it's helpful if you have a job that can be done at least somewhat in isolation. Because I know for

[00:30:48] me that saved my bacon more than once, you know, that okay, well, at least today, I'm going to

[00:30:53] have to go study the Bible for three hours by myself, you know, like that is restorative to a degree.

[00:31:00] But it hits on a deeper level in that what you're really saying is, you know, one of the hard things

[00:31:05] about being a dad is sanctification hurts sometimes. And that's what God is doing when

[00:31:12] he's working on that stuff in our nature and character. And you're just, you know, your

[00:31:19] thing that God is trying to sanctify you in in that category is having the ability to be stronger,

[00:31:25] not needing as much of that self restorative kind of time, not that that stuff is bad,

[00:31:32] but just it's a luxury that you can't have at all times. And so you're in that season as my life

[00:31:39] group would often say, really pouring out. So I love that Riley. Yeah, thanks for thanks for

[00:31:45] opening up about that one. Yeah, that was good. Pastor Mike, what's a what's a hard or difficult

[00:31:51] thing about being a dad and how have you faced or overcome that? So for me, I think I'm in a unique

[00:31:56] situation at this point in my life where all four of my kids have two kids. So we have eight

[00:32:02] grandkids, they're grown. I think for me now is just watching them do life praying they don't make

[00:32:11] any of the mistakes I made. Thank God they're beyond that kind of age of choice. But now as a

[00:32:18] parent, just to watch them go through life and pray that things are smooth, that there's no hardships

[00:32:25] in their life. You know, obviously, as parents, we all have the fear of losing one of our kids.

[00:32:33] I see it happen all the time with the kind of work that I do. I have called so many moms

[00:32:40] and said your your son has died. And it is the most painful phone call to make you can imagine.

[00:32:47] But to think to a parent to be on that end of a phone call. So I think for me,

[00:32:53] this point in my life is just seeing my kids be happy, see them live a good life and just pray

[00:33:00] to God that they get the call about me and it's not the other way around. And just

[00:33:06] having and hoping the best for them. You know, I didn't have an example of what it was like to

[00:33:12] be a parent. So it was a new thing for me. It was just make it up as I go. I blew the first half

[00:33:16] of my life in jail, living in my car homeless. But then to see God embrace me and bring me back

[00:33:25] into my family and to see that restored now I get to see their lives and their kids and be

[00:33:32] so blessed by what's going on in their life. So I would say my biggest fear is

[00:33:38] just praying and hoping that they just have great lives, that they follow Christ closely

[00:33:44] and that they just do what's right and what's good in God's eyes.

[00:33:50] You're so right the older they get the stakes are just higher and higher and higher with every

[00:33:56] decision that they make when they're three years old. If they decide to push a kid in the playground,

[00:34:03] it's a bad choice, but not necessarily yet life altering. But when you're 20 years old,

[00:34:09] man, you can make a decision that might inadvertently take someone else's life and it could change

[00:34:14] the trajectory of your life. So staying up at night worrying, oh Lord, please don't let them

[00:34:22] make a bad decision. Yeah, that's a challenge. But it sounds like your solution has been

[00:34:28] to commit to them in prayer, to commit to praying for them and then also to just be in contact with

[00:34:35] them, loving them in relationship with them. So far so good for you. Amen because that's really

[00:34:42] all we can do is commit them to Christ. I mean because as pastors that's what we tell other

[00:34:46] people, you know, because I always find it like if I'm struggling with something Michelle will

[00:34:52] always get me. She'll say well did you pray about it? I'm like darn it! Why do you always think of

[00:34:59] that? That's my job. But we really just need to commit our kids to Christ because he brought

[00:35:07] them to us. There is ultimately and so we just really need to commit them to prayer and just

[00:35:13] let him be in charge of the situation. And I think also it's great as a dad to remember how

[00:35:20] faithful God has been to you in your own life despite your terrible decisions at times. You

[00:35:26] know, I look back at my past in history and I think you know God was so sovereign. He was

[00:35:31] working in my life despite all the terrible choices I made. He's in control of their

[00:35:39] lives as well. I got to commit them to God that the Spirit of God would be released upon their

[00:35:45] lives to do things that I cannot do. So that's great Mike. Thank you for sharing that with us.

[00:35:51] Manny how about you? What's difficult about being a dad? How have you faced or overcome

[00:35:55] that reality? I recognize early on how little control I actually have especially as they continue

[00:36:05] age and get older. I think I figured that out when I was about 15 years old. I said,

[00:36:12] you know, I don't really have to do what I could do whatever I want. There might be some consequences

[00:36:19] but she can't stop me. And I think not only is that challenging or coming to that realization,

[00:36:27] wow they've figured out that they don't have to do what I tell them. That they're the

[00:36:32] free agents. Then it was difficult to know, it was so hard to know when do I stand firm,

[00:36:43] hold my ground, be hands-on and directive where I just got to put my shoulder down and say you're

[00:36:49] gonna come at me but you're just gonna bounce off because I got to win this one especially

[00:36:54] when they were teenagers. Versus discerning when it's those times and when it's,

[00:37:01] you know, I need to let them make this decision and deal with the consequences and not step into

[00:37:07] being a savior. So many times as parents I think that's because we fear what might,

[00:37:15] we don't correctly discern, is this one where I can need to let them suffer the consequences

[00:37:19] and not rescue them from everything? You know, I remember one time one of my boys was defying

[00:37:27] me. He wanted to go out somewhere, I was asking the parenting questions and he just, homeboy

[00:37:33] was stepping out. He was walking out of the house. He turned his back on me and began,

[00:37:38] I said okay this is one of those times that I need to stand firm so I grabbed him by the

[00:37:42] back of the shirt. He turned around and took a swing at me. Now he knows that I've been in

[00:37:47] martial arts and stuff. So for those of you who are listening to this who have perhaps maybe

[00:37:52] never met Manny, I'll just say he's not an unintimidating figure. He can hold his own.

[00:38:00] So anyway, I didn't want to hurt my son, you know, but I know how to take care of myself,

[00:38:04] how to defend myself and so I wrapped him up. You know, I stepped into the swing,

[00:38:09] the swing went around me, dropped him on the floor. We were, my wife and I were

[00:38:13] doing the middle of doing this painting project in the kitchen. There was paint flying all over

[00:38:16] the place. It was just messy, you know? And those was one of those times that I had to hold him down.

[00:38:25] God when do I have, when are those moments that I have to wrestle him down to the ground and

[00:38:29] the paint goals all over the place or when are those times that I just need to let him

[00:38:33] walk out? Yeah, that's tough. Are there any questions that you would ask or a grid that

[00:38:41] you would look through that would be helpful to you to deciding that or was it more gut level?

[00:38:49] I think this is one that I just, I'm sensing and I can't let this one go.

[00:38:55] It's a little bit of both. I think their stage of life and their age, you know,

[00:38:59] you know your children and Kate, you know, as their teenagers driving, for example,

[00:39:06] they don't understand the implications of they're still learning that. So you have to step in

[00:39:11] in those situations. They're a life, not just to them, but also to others. But you know,

[00:39:16] I think another one would be, you know, schoolwork. Oh, you don't want to do your homework. You don't

[00:39:20] want to study. Okay, go for it. Watch the consequences that come from that. You'll miss

[00:39:26] out on opportunities, you know, and they need to learn that somehow. And what a better place

[00:39:30] for them to learn that kind of then in your, in the safety of your home, because once they

[00:39:35] leave your home, the stakes are so much higher. Right? It sounds like so one thing you're

[00:39:39] thinking about is the ultimate outcome of this potential thing that I'm allowing to let that

[00:39:47] I'm letting go. Yes. And I think that goes for even sometimes the tendency of parents to meddle

[00:39:54] a little too much, you know, like for instance, if you continually think to yourself, I got to

[00:40:00] jump in and make sure that my kid does not fail this class over and over and over and over again.

[00:40:07] Well, that's going to backfire in the future because you're not going to be there at the job

[00:40:11] site someday when they're failing in that environment. So finding areas where you can say,

[00:40:18] you know, this is a safe space to let them just go to the nth degree of their decision-making

[00:40:24] process, reap the whirlwind so to speak and then learn from it while there's still time

[00:40:31] to correct. So yeah, that's great. All right, Pastor Matt, how about you? What is difficult

[00:40:36] about being a dad and how have you faced or overcome that difficulty? Yeah, that's a good

[00:40:43] question. Good job guys answering this one. I think, man, you know, so I've got our oldest

[00:40:50] who's entering his second decade of life. And I think I've just been thinking of the realization

[00:40:56] where my time is so limited. And I think if I had to say what's difficult for me in my stage

[00:41:03] of parenting, because I can relate probably to Riley, you know, I've been in that spot too.

[00:41:10] But where our boys are, you know, they're putting their own pants on, you know, everybody's kind

[00:41:16] of doing doing their thing for the most part, you know, they still think I'm funny like it's

[00:41:21] that kind of zone. I just love this time and I just know it's just going to go by so quick.

[00:41:27] And so I think there's an urgency that I'm feeling to have those moment create those experiences,

[00:41:36] to have those conversations that don't always happen on a face-to-face. Hey,

[00:41:40] Canon, let me I want to tell you some stuff. You know, it's like,

[00:41:43] it's the most random times where you see their heart open up and you're like, this is it,

[00:41:48] this is what I've been waiting for. And you drop, you drop that thing that you've been

[00:41:52] having on your heart to drop, but it had to happen through just like whether you're just

[00:41:57] chilling and they're there in a spot where they can receive it. I just want to, I just want to

[00:42:01] take advantage of the time. And so I think the difficulty of the limited time for me. Yes.

[00:42:08] So how do I overcome that? That's a hard one because we've only got 24 hours in a day.

[00:42:14] But I think what it's meant for me, and I know it's meant for a lot of dads is

[00:42:21] I've just had to say goodbye to things that I would like to do that right now I can't do.

[00:42:28] Right. I love, I love playing 18 holes of golf. You know, it's one of my favorite things to do,

[00:42:33] but it's also a good five, six hours mainly because I'm trying to find my ball most of

[00:42:38] the time. But, but I just know like these are moments that I don't think in 10 years I'm going to

[00:42:46] look back and go, man, I wish I'm so bummed I missed out on that round of golf. I'm so bummed

[00:42:51] I missed out on that, that game or that show. I'm going to go, man, I wish I would have had

[00:42:57] a little bit more time intentionally with my boys. So that's not to put a burden on anybody

[00:43:03] else. I'm just kind of feeling it right now. So wanting to create spaces where I can just be

[00:43:08] intentional. No, I get that you're, you're right in that stage where yeah, things start changing and

[00:43:14] the dynamic changes. The relationship can still be good, but man, yeah, in those early, late

[00:43:20] elementary school ages, it's just so much fun. There's challenges. They're developing like crazy,

[00:43:27] but it's so much fun. And yet you do, you feel that pressure and I think you know, you've encouraged

[00:43:34] guys in the direction of, hey, take a life inventory, ask the question, where is their wiggle room?

[00:43:41] Where are their sacrifices that I could make that I'm not yet making so that I can seize the day

[00:43:48] that's in front of me? I think I would add on to it that a way to really overcome that,

[00:43:54] that fear, that concern that time is limited is believe that you as a father have a superpower

[00:44:04] that God has given to you. And it's your voice in the lives of your children. There will be times

[00:44:10] where you're working really hard. There will be times where it's not the round of golf,

[00:44:16] but it's just the boss was like, look, you're needed late, you know, and you'll feel perhaps a

[00:44:25] guilt like man, my kid has been at school all day with his friends all day with his mom all day.

[00:44:31] What chance do I have to break through? Well, the reason you have a chance is because God has

[00:44:38] designed you as the father with like a megaphone of a voice that even a small little amount of contact

[00:44:48] can go a massive way in the life of your child. So my encouragement is even if the time that

[00:44:55] you have is really small, take advantage of it. Don't be ashamed of that. Don't back down,

[00:45:01] but seize even the little moments that you have. Yeah, that's because that is a challenge just

[00:45:07] knowing. I mean, you know, I'm watching my kids, they're all in their late teenage years and I've

[00:45:14] got one that's going to turn 20 this year. And yeah, you look back like, oh man, I wanted to have

[00:45:22] taught them this or I'd wanted to have taught them that. And I remember those ages that you're

[00:45:27] going through where you just feel like, man, there's this catalog. There's this curriculum.

[00:45:32] I want to take them through. There's like economics 101, there's relationships 105. There's, you know,

[00:45:40] like all these things I'm trying to communicate. They're in here. They're in my heart. They're

[00:45:45] in my mind. But where did the time go? But just trusting that what you have sewn when you do so,

[00:45:52] it will produce something powerful in the future. So take advantage of the voice

[00:45:57] that God has given to you guys. That was a great, that was a great round to go through.

[00:46:02] Okay, last question around the table before we then go around one last time and get a

[00:46:08] resource recommendation or book recommendation and a little exhortation from each one of you.

[00:46:14] The next question I want to do though is what do you, a gospel centered Jesus loving

[00:46:21] biblical dad want to be for your kids and what do you want to help them become? And the reason I

[00:46:29] ask it that way is because, you know, there's a lot of parenting podcasts out there, a lot of dad

[00:46:34] podcasts out there, a lot of dad conversations that are, you know, real general revelation in

[00:46:40] nature. Like these are good things for dads to do, but we're sitting here at this table,

[00:46:47] a group of men that have embraced the gospel and centered our lives around it, filtering our world

[00:46:55] through its grid. We love Jesus. We want him to be preeminent in our lives. We believe in Jesus

[00:47:02] famous and we want to be biblical. We want to have the Bible inform the way that we live our

[00:47:08] lives. So that might make us have a little bit different of an answer as to what we want

[00:47:14] to be as dads and what we want to have happen in the lives of our kids than maybe other fathers out

[00:47:21] there. So probably a lot of great answers, but I hope that these are more pointed in nature. So

[00:47:26] Riley going back to you as our first guy in the round table, what do you, a gospel centered Jesus

[00:47:33] loving biblical dad want to be for your kids and what do you want to help them become?

[00:47:38] Yeah, that's a huge question. Right? I think I was thinking about this. I was like, what do I want

[00:47:44] to be for Meadow? I want to be like so many things. But I think at the end of the day,

[00:47:51] if she went off to college and thought about like, what's like one word to describe dad, you know,

[00:47:56] I think I'd want to be worshipful. There's this book I'm reading called The Celebration

[00:48:00] of Discipline by Richard Foster. And he has this little, it's like one paragraph where he

[00:48:05] talks about holy leisure, modium sanctum. And the idea is that you can go through life and you're

[00:48:11] going through the difficulties of life, you know, hard work stuff, hard conversations. But at the

[00:48:17] drop of a pin, you can stop and look at a tree and just be like, man, God, you're so creative.

[00:48:22] Like how big you are to make this and how amazing you are, just have like these,

[00:48:27] these worshipful breaks. And it's almost like the like worship in your life

[00:48:32] is just the undercurrent of everything. It's like almost like right at the surface

[00:48:36] all the time, you know, not being weighed down heavy with just the weight of the world,

[00:48:41] but really lifted up with joy. A man who really embraces that God's strength is through joy and

[00:48:47] trust in him. And so I would love for Meadows to see like, oh yeah, dad was like a worshipful dude.

[00:48:54] Like he handled the hard stuff. He went through hard stuff. He chose hard things.

[00:48:59] But he worshiped God. He didn't let the pressures dictate his emotional state,

[00:49:05] his mental state, his purpose or his worship. He was just like,

[00:49:10] he rode with a different mindset, you know? And I would love for her to be able to see that and

[00:49:15] just to know that, okay, when I go through hard things, I know that God is still with me. Like

[00:49:21] when I was growing up, like some of you here, I grew up without a dad,

[00:49:25] but I had a really strong mom who really embodied that in a very strong way. And that's one of the

[00:49:31] things I always, like the picture I have in my brain, I think about my mom is her in her bed with

[00:49:35] her Bible and a cup of coffee. That's like the first thing I think about. I would just love

[00:49:40] for Meadow to have that kind of memory, you know? So I want her to see that from me and I want

[00:49:47] her to become a woman who is full of worship. Just loves God. Obviously, I think we all want

[00:49:53] that, but I want her to be protected from bitterness and resentment and a despair. I want her to be like,

[00:50:01] there's a future. God's with me. That word Emmanuel, I'm just all about that word Emmanuel,

[00:50:08] God is with us. So yeah, a worshipful person. Amen. Riley, I love that one because I think

[00:50:14] what as a believer, what we want to have happen for our kids is we want them

[00:50:20] to turn to God often, you know, repeatedly in and through life. And you're wanting to model that

[00:50:29] for her so that she sees this is the option that I should choose. I think an encouragement that I

[00:50:38] would give to guys that are out there on this front is that I think a lot of times it becomes

[00:50:46] easier to be worshipful in some of those external ways or even to talk about how you're

[00:50:53] feeling about God or what God is showing you. It becomes easier to do that with people that are a

[00:50:59] little further away from you, kind of at arm's length, whether it's friends and church or

[00:51:05] guys in your discipleship group or brothers that you know in Christ. And as your kids are

[00:51:11] growing up in your home, they know you. They know that you're not all worship, you know,

[00:51:17] that they can see your flaws, they can see your shortcomings. And because you're so familiar

[00:51:23] with each other, there can almost be a difficulty in opening up and saying, you know, God was

[00:51:28] showing me this or the Lord helped me see this deficiency in me or here's something beautiful

[00:51:36] that I love about God. You know, you could almost kind of envision the eye roll from Meadow, you know,

[00:51:43] with one more time where dad Riley is like, there's that tree Meadow look at it. It's beautiful.

[00:51:51] God is a creator and she's like, oh my dad is a millennial worship leader and he's proved it

[00:51:56] once again, you know, and instead just saying, I got to take those risks with my kids and I

[00:52:02] got to show them that part of me because it's good for them to see you with your Bible open. Those

[00:52:07] are some of my earliest memories of my parents as well. I'm really kind of modeled and fashioned for

[00:52:13] me of this is what it looks like to seek God. They got their Bibles open, they're spending

[00:52:17] time with the Lord first thing. It's a cornerstone of their lives. But then to take that next

[00:52:23] step too of opening up your heart to them and talking to them about what God means to you,

[00:52:28] that's good. That's really good. Pastor Mike, how about you? What are you a Gospel center Jesus

[00:52:33] loving biblical dad want to be for your kids and what do you want to help them become? Well,

[00:52:39] Riley ours are so much alike. Just kidding. For me, I mean it's profound because I think my really

[00:52:46] first introduction to Christ was I was in sixth grade. Our neighbors were Christian, Dennis and

[00:52:51] Jim Christian family, Christian mom, Christian dad, Boy Scout leader, perfect family really idolized

[00:52:58] their family. And we got invited to youth group. So we know we didn't go home and ask Dad so my

[00:53:06] brother and I went to youth group and we went in it was a little Christian church down the street

[00:53:10] and they were doing worship playing games and it felt really good. It was like fun. This is

[00:53:17] awesome. And then the pastor, youth pastor started speaking and we could hear the back door just

[00:53:24] creak open and everybody looked at my dad was standing there and look on his face. My brother

[00:53:29] I got up and walked out and he beat me to a absolute bloody pulp and told me that it was

[00:53:36] an embarrassment that his kids don't go to church that God isn't real. He wasn't my dad.

[00:53:42] I was pathetic and so that was kind of my first introduction to Christ and then my poor kids get

[00:53:51] the introduction of me being an addict and get to watch the whole transition. And so I think what

[00:53:57] I want more than anything is for my kids to know that I'm an absolute lover of Christ,

[00:54:02] that I completely follow him. I'm in love with him and that's how I live my life and

[00:54:07] that's how I do everything that I do. So I think that's super important that they see that in their

[00:54:13] dad because I never saw that in any of the male figures I had growing up in my life. It wasn't

[00:54:18] until I was an adult that I actually began to see that in people like Bill Holdridge, Skip Joanne's,

[00:54:25] Bob Stewart. It was foreign to me. I was like it didn't seem real that that was an actual

[00:54:32] possibility for an adult man to have a heart like that. So for me I want my kids to know that I'm an

[00:54:40] absolute follower of Christ. I love Christ and I will follow him my entire life and I think it's

[00:54:46] super important that they know that that too grounds and centers me. Amen. Amen. I love that

[00:54:51] Mike because our kids, they're going to learn from lots of other people. They're going to have

[00:54:57] lots of other models and people that they look up to. They're going to have people who disciple them

[00:55:04] and teach them things about the Christian faith. They're going to learn so much at the feet of

[00:55:11] others but I think what you're saying is, but I want in their home and in their lives, I want

[00:55:17] to be one of the biggest voices of what it looks like to be a Jesus person. Amen. Absolutely. I

[00:55:24] want to show that to them. So even if they're learning from other people, they're getting it from

[00:55:29] me as well. So I love that Mike and I praise God. I think your kids are watching that and seeing that

[00:55:35] in your adult life. So good job man. Amen. All right, Pastor Manny, how about you? What are

[00:55:41] you a gospel centered? Are you gospel centered? Yeah, I'm pretty sure you qualify. But how

[00:55:47] about you? Well, I did just have to in my own words echo what Pastor Mike said. I want to be

[00:55:52] that attractive, tangible example of how an imperfect Jesus follower follows Jesus

[00:55:59] imperfectly. And I don't want to be one that makes Jesus look like, man, I can't never do what dad

[00:56:06] did or do it how dad did it. He was just too good, unreachable. No, you can. It's possible

[00:56:12] to follow Jesus even if it's imperfect. And because of that ultimate I want for them to

[00:56:18] be lovers of Jesus. I would love for them to see for Jesus, the Bible, God, His Spirit to be the

[00:56:26] primary influencers of their lives. But I acknowledge that I don't have any control over that.

[00:56:34] They have to be the ones to choose in the same way that I did. I can only set the stage and

[00:56:40] create the environment, cultivate the soil of their lives to give them best shot that they

[00:56:46] would choose that. And so alongside of that, knowing that that's between them and God, that decision,

[00:56:56] what do I want them to become? I want them to be men of character who are responsible, respectful,

[00:57:01] full of integrity, hardworking. Yeah, that's what I want them to be. I love that. So to me,

[00:57:11] as I've watched you parent your boys, it seems to me that you've kind of concluded, okay,

[00:57:19] when Christ is on the throne of your life, there's a certain brand of life and character that flows

[00:57:25] from that. In my home, I'm going to make sure that regardless of whether my boys decide that

[00:57:34] King Jesus is going to be the king of their lives or not, they're going to at least understand

[00:57:39] some of the ethics that flow from King Jesus. And I'm praying that the conversion or the

[00:57:47] experience has to happen in their hearts for him to be the king in their lives, that that occurs.

[00:57:52] Nailed it. I can't make that happen, but I darn well sure am going to make sure that this

[00:57:58] lower tier does occur. Those were the expectations set in my home. Yeah, I love that. So

[00:58:05] when you talk about setting the stage or the environment for that to occur, can you think of

[00:58:12] any of the kind of stage setting environmental things that were important to you? Yeah, I think one

[00:58:18] of the key things that I remember and it actually has to do with one of the resources,

[00:58:24] grace based grace based parenting by Tim Kimmel. And I remember correctly is in this book that

[00:58:30] one of the concepts he suggested was parents, everything that you do and say values, standards

[00:58:37] that you set in your home, it doesn't have to have a scripture, a chapter attached to it.

[00:58:42] Whenever you do that and you misinterpret, misuse the Bible to drive home your point,

[00:58:47] can turn into legalism. Your kids will reject that because they'll see right through it.

[00:58:52] You have life experience. You have sacred wisdom that's already given to you from God.

[00:58:57] It's okay for you to have these are my person. Here's what God's word says.

[00:59:02] That's one thing. But here are my convictions. Here's what it's going to be like in my home

[00:59:07] to distinguish between the two and say, this is why I'm telling you this. I'm not saying this

[00:59:11] because God said so. I'm saying this because here's what it's going to be like in my home.

[00:59:16] I'm the authority. I'm the dad. We're the parents. Here's what we think is wise.

[00:59:22] And so being able to distinguish that was one of the ways that we

[00:59:25] establish those boundaries and guidelines for them.

[00:59:31] Yeah. So there's the, because God says so categories and then there's the,

[00:59:35] because God put me here categories. Yeah. I like that. Good job, dad. All right, Matt.

[00:59:40] How about you? What do you, a gospel centered Jesus loving biblical dad want for your kids

[00:59:47] and what do you want to be for your kids? Man, well, the advantage of going last is I

[00:59:51] can just say, yeah, amen to all of these guys. So well, so well said. I don't know if I have a

[00:59:58] unique take on this besides what's been said, but you know, I think when I think of my boys

[01:00:04] and I think of what do I want them to see me as or who do I want to be for them?

[01:00:12] I want to be marked by love. I want them to be able to say whether they move on or

[01:00:19] or out. Man, dad, dad loved God deeply. He loved mom deeply and he loved us fiercely.

[01:00:30] And I think, you know, if, if the Christian life of Jesus is wanting to do anything in us,

[01:00:37] it's produce a life that is marked by love, you know, a love for God and a love for people.

[01:00:44] So as you know, one of our favorite books says we want to raise kids that love God with passion

[01:00:50] and love people on purpose. And I think that's that's just something I just am cognizant of.

[01:00:57] I want, I want them because I think there's going to come a time when this kind of gets into

[01:01:04] what I want to help them become. I want them to tap into the love of God. I want them

[01:01:09] to just get under that spout, man. And so that just flows because there's nothing greater.

[01:01:15] And when we embrace God's love, when that becomes so real to us,

[01:01:22] when not if God calls them to do something that they don't want to do,

[01:01:29] where's the motivation to do that? There's a lot of motivations that the world offers

[01:01:33] to not follow God's way in the way of Jesus. But I think ultimately it comes back to

[01:01:39] God's love is greater than any, anything else. So, so I want to, I want to be a man who's

[01:01:45] marked by that, that kind of love and that, um, that invites them to enjoy that kind of love too.

[01:01:52] That is so good. Yeah. I mean, it's when you're, you know, in the throes of raising kids,

[01:02:00] it's so easy to just want a quick behavioral modification, you know, like, and sometimes,

[01:02:07] you know, that's our role. We need a, there's a corrective, you know, my wife and I used to

[01:02:12] talk about the preciousness of others. Like this fit you're throwing right now. Well, we love

[01:02:17] the other people in this room too. So we consider the preciousness of others. So you're getting

[01:02:22] a discipline right now, but ultimately at the end of the day that they would know God, love God,

[01:02:30] respond to God's love. And I love that, but what you're trying to model for them about

[01:02:37] not just being a God lover, but loving others too. You know, that's, I've watched my wife be,

[01:02:44] you know, fixate on that with all three of our girls that life is not about you. The world

[01:02:51] is not about you. There are others that God has put us here on earth to serve and to take care of and

[01:02:58] minister to, and to even at an early age, she'd start roping them in, you know, and I think I was

[01:03:03] even maybe a little allergic to it. Like, Oh, I don't want them to get burned out on service and

[01:03:10] church and think that this is like a mandatory thing. But she kind of just acted like you're

[01:03:16] in our house, you're going to help serve our church. You're going to help in the kids

[01:03:19] ministry at an early age. You're going to be doing stuff. And I've watched and seen how that has developed

[01:03:27] into an others centeredness in their lives because she had that as a value. Yes, we're going to love

[01:03:34] God, but the outflow of that is we're going to love other people as well. So great answers,

[01:03:40] you guys. And I think, you know, obviously we framed the question in a very specific way,

[01:03:46] but I just think it's good for us to just pause and step back for a second as fathers and just

[01:03:52] think about what is most important about what our kids become. You know, I don't know where you as

[01:03:59] a listener are listening from or what kind of culture you're in, but here on the Monterey

[01:04:04] Peninsula where we're at is very success oriented culture, a wealth oriented culture,

[01:04:12] an education oriented culture. And none of those things are wrong or bad in and of themselves.

[01:04:19] But I think what we're saying is there's an area of life that supersedes all of that. We want mostly

[01:04:29] for our kids to love and know God and then respond to him. And if that leads to tons of

[01:04:34] education, great. If it leads to a big income, great. They're going to help pay off our

[01:04:40] mortgages and help us with retirement. If it leads to those types of things, wonderful.

[01:04:46] But that's not the main goal. That's not the first place thing. And I think a lot of

[01:04:52] believing parents need to get that order corrected in their mentality of what they're

[01:04:58] mostly shooting for in the lives of their kids. I think for a lot of people at success,

[01:05:04] first character, second and then devotion to Christ last. We want devotion to Jesus number one

[01:05:11] character that flows from that. And we believe that success will come when those things are

[01:05:16] happening in a person's life. So that's what I'm hearing from a lot of you guys at this table.

[01:05:22] Guys, thank you so much for talking about being a dad. And if you're listening right now

[01:05:27] and you've hung with us this long, God bless you, you get a gold star.

[01:05:32] And we're going to close out with one little rapid fire round where I'm going to have

[01:05:37] the each dad at the table name a book or resource that they recommend to you. And we'll put a link

[01:05:45] to these resources in the show notes. So you don't have to pull over where if you're driving

[01:05:51] on the road, you could just look in your podcast app later and then one last little

[01:05:55] exhortation to encourage all of you. So Riley, we'll start with you.

[01:06:01] Yeah, I would say for my resources, obviously so many good books to read and podcast to listen to.

[01:06:06] I think one that's just on my heart to share is this book called Emotionally Healthy Spirituality.

[01:06:11] I heard somebody say recently that the world's not looking for more people who are talented,

[01:06:15] but for people who are more deep. And it's really true. I think our kids,

[01:06:19] whether they know how to articulate or not would like to see us become a deeper

[01:06:26] man of emotional, mental, spiritual health. And so this book isn't like the end all be all obviously,

[01:06:32] but it gets you starting to think about questions that maybe you wouldn't normally ask

[01:06:36] with your dude friends, you know, so a great book and I just believe that every man does

[01:06:42] have true depth to them. God has made you an emotional man. He's given you thoughts,

[01:06:48] he's given you desires, plans and purposes. He's begun it. He's working in you.

[01:06:56] There's there's new territory to gain. So I'm trying to say so if you're feeling like,

[01:07:00] gosh, I don't know how articulate all those emotional kind of things.

[01:07:04] That's okay. God is working that out in you and your kids will be

[01:07:09] so thankful as you work that out in community. And my last thing is, I guess just two quick things.

[01:07:17] One is if you're a man and you're, you're in your marriage, you have kids and you're struggling with

[01:07:23] pornography or are just your mind is just captured by sexuality in a way that is perverted.

[01:07:30] I just want you to know you're not alone in that there are other men who experience that

[01:07:34] as well. I would encourage you to get into a small group with other men at a church if you're a part

[01:07:41] of Calvary, there's great men's groups here. Don't go through that alone is deteriorating your marriage

[01:07:47] whether you know it or not. Please find some people to talk to and find some victory in it.

[01:07:54] Jesus wants to help you overcome that you can be rescued from it. So I just want to say that

[01:07:59] and last thing totally just left turn it just enjoy your kids. And I know I'm a young dad,

[01:08:07] I don't have much experience at all but what I'm hearing from all you guys and what I've

[01:08:10] experienced in my life is that being a dad is so rich when you truly do enjoy your kids.

[01:08:17] You look at them in the eyes, you talk to them, you listen, you don't just shume away but

[01:08:23] you embrace them give them hugs and I wrestle them and just have some fun. So

[01:08:27] enjoy your kids, protect your mind and go a bit deeper than you think that you might want to go.

[01:08:33] Thanks so much Riley. That's a great one and I'll just put in a special request because

[01:08:38] I recently noticed my wife she had a real big week. She was busy, some pressures and stresses

[01:08:46] that were weighing on her a little bit. She was just navigating all of it and then

[01:08:50] she got to watch Meadow your daughter for about two hours and I saw her countenance change and

[01:08:57] her spirit lift and I just said to her later I said you need like an appointment with Meadow

[01:09:02] once a week where you just hang out with her because it just makes you feel so good. So please

[01:09:07] can you bring Meadow over a little bit more often? Yeah, baby girls they're medicinal.

[01:09:13] All right Pastor Mike how about you what's your resource recommendation and final exhortation?

[01:09:18] To me this is pretty funny. I've been waiting probably since 2003 to be able to answer this.

[01:09:25] I had a conversation with you in 2003 I think you remember I was a new new believer

[01:09:32] probably weeks into belief and I asked Pastor Nate I said hey can you recommend a book

[01:09:39] that explains the Bible? He said well that would be the Bible. I said no no no no no no no

[01:09:45] no. I want you to recommend a book to teach me about the Bible and he would not let it go.

[01:09:51] It was the Bible to buy. I was really super frustrated with him walked away you know whatever

[01:09:56] under my breath but as I've grown and as a believer and when we were I was thinking

[01:10:03] about this question had a best answer it for me my character was so broken I did not need

[01:10:11] someone's someone to interpret the Bible and come up with something clever I need to look at

[01:10:18] my character reflected in the characters of the Bible whether it's the life of David or Solomon

[01:10:26] or the wisdom of Proverbs because I needed to go to the source and find out where my character

[01:10:31] is wrong because I didn't have character I did I had no value I had no morals I I was a yes

[01:10:40] man I would say whatever you want to do whatever you wanted I had no built in Mike character I

[01:10:46] didn't know who I was as a man especially who I was as a man in Christ so for me when I started

[01:10:54] thinking about those questions I had to just start going through the Bible and what characters do

[01:10:59] these men have that are honoring God? I mean we look at David all the things that he went

[01:11:04] through and it says that you know Dave was a man after God's own heart and we can start

[01:11:08] modeling some of those characters in our own life and get to the root of what's going on and for me

[01:11:15] it was it was just no character no moral fiber nothing and actually starting to build character

[01:11:22] based on things that I'm reading in the Bible not someone's opinion on what's in the Bible so

[01:11:28] for me because of how far gone I was I had to go back to the Bible it you know I still

[01:11:35] laugh when I think about it because people ask me all the time the same question that I asked

[01:11:40] Nate in 2003 they walk away as frustrated as I did and then I get to chuck on when I see them

[01:11:47] carrying a Bible reading their Bible and beginning to understand that's where really

[01:11:53] when all is said and done when you look on Amazon there's thousands and thousands and thousands

[01:11:57] and thousands and thousands of self-help books even so many of them they're Christian based on

[01:12:02] the Bible so I'm going to say if you really want to examine your character and who you are in Christ

[01:12:10] as a man or as a parent go back and read scripture and find out how to maybe reevaluate

[01:12:17] your life or reexamine your character and begin to build that into who you are so for me it's

[01:12:22] going to be the Bible and I love that Mike that's a great resource we'll put that link in

[01:12:29] the show notes Amazon link get a Bible read the Bible you know I a phrase I've been thinking about

[01:12:38] recently is you don't want people to conclude that there is a canon inside the canon and what

[01:12:48] is meant by that is as Christians we believe that Genesis to Revelation is inspired by God

[01:12:56] but a lot of times the way we handle our pulpits or the way that we handle the books that we write

[01:13:01] it communicates that well actually there's a special part inside the Bible that is the real

[01:13:08] canon these are the things or verses or concepts that as long as you know those you're good

[01:13:14] to go but to be a man of the word and to get into it and really realize that you know all

[01:13:21] of it is it's all saying the same thing in different ways it's pointing me to the same

[01:13:25] truths over and over again what a blessing so thanks for that Mike I probably had not read

[01:13:33] very many books when I was 25 years old to be able to give you a book so I just knew the Bible

[01:13:38] so you're just blowing me up right I'm really glad that that answer has gotten so much traction

[01:13:42] over the years Manny how about you last resource and exhortation yeah I already

[01:13:48] answered my resource question it was grace-based parenting by Tim Kimmel so I'll jump right into

[01:13:54] my exhortation dad's you matter your presence your voice your perspective matters no matter what

[01:14:02] society is telling you with a modern feminist movement you matter you have a place of course

[01:14:09] you won't do it perfectly nobody does we there's only one perfect father and that's God

[01:14:15] so don't use that as an excuse to check out your kids need to see how an imperfect father fathers

[01:14:22] they need to see you do it imperfectly you are that tangible example of Jesus that inspires and say

[01:14:28] hey I can do that too so learn grow read listen ask questions you know what receive God's grace

[01:14:36] for yourself of course you're going to make you mistakes and when you make a mistake when

[01:14:40] you miss handle situation continue to be an example of how a man handles mistakes humility be an

[01:14:46] example of humility be an example of honesty repent say I'm sorry that's my exhortation man I feel like

[01:14:54] we all need to have that audio clip as our alarm clock in the morning just to listen to Manny pump

[01:15:01] us up on our role it's just so true man yeah everything in culture is just saying men don't

[01:15:07] matter dads don't matter you're actually a problem and so to hear no I do matter not in some egotistical

[01:15:16] sadistic way I matter because I believe there's a God who exists who made us male and female and

[01:15:24] he put me in this family unit for a reason man that's that's good thank you for that word

[01:15:30] that was good all right pastor Matt how about you resource and exhortation well you know I love

[01:15:36] resources so well you could do too if you want to because man he put his in earlier so he did

[01:15:43] like said the Bible which is good so anything that I'm going to say is going to fall short right

[01:15:48] yeah I think in terms of dad good books on being a dad we kind of mentioned Dear New Dad shout out

[01:15:56] Pastor Nate wrote a book thank you for for new dads it's a great resource get it on Amazon

[01:16:01] really if you're a brand new dad entering into this you got to check that out super encouraging

[01:16:08] a book I just finished actually that I really I really liked it's called Habits of the Household

[01:16:13] and it's by Justin Early and the subtitle is Practicing the Story of God in Everyday Family

[01:16:19] Rhythms and I feel like he just did a really good job of saying hey here's here's what

[01:16:26] a day looks like and here is how you can take the moments the time the milestones of life that happen

[01:16:35] in each and every day and capitalize on them and build on them to develop habits that over time

[01:16:42] you're going to see building the things into your kids lives that you want to build and so

[01:16:48] super practical there's different chapters on walking different chapters on meal times discipline

[01:16:56] screen time family devotions it's super practical but I just really enjoyed it I thought it was a

[01:17:01] really inspiring read speaking of an inspiring read my second one intentional father by John Tyson

[01:17:06] it's one of those that you're just going to read it and feel like a terrible dad compared to him

[01:17:12] so just know that heading into it you don't have to be a John Tyson but but what he does

[01:17:17] is he lays out pretty much a blueprint for discipling your particularly your young

[01:17:23] boy in the teen years and I just appreciate a guy who says hey go after it like here's what you can do

[01:17:31] you have this time and so he did that with his son and he's developed a program called the primal

[01:17:37] path that you can check out as well but I think those those kind of resources inspire me as much

[01:17:43] as we're going to fall short and your your story your season of life might look different

[01:17:48] I think it's good to see who has come before us and I think what I would say for dads

[01:17:54] guys we get we get an opportunity to do something that is such an incredible privilege

[01:18:03] and such a beautiful responsibility and that's to shape the lives of humans so whether it's one

[01:18:11] kid or several kids my encouragement to you is don't don't wing it this is not a time to wing it

[01:18:21] there's a there's a lot of things as as men I think we probably wing whether it's in work you know or

[01:18:27] I think even in relationships we're still trying to figure things out but I think I'm just passionate

[01:18:32] about there's a community of men that I have you know around this table that I have learned

[01:18:39] so much from there are resources that are so good you have God's spirit living inside of you

[01:18:46] I just feel like we live in a day and age we don't have the kind of excuses to say well I didn't

[01:18:51] it wasn't equipped it's like man find some brothers find some guys some dads that you admire

[01:18:57] that you look at their kids and you go man they've done something right no no parent is

[01:19:01] perfect have coffee with them take them out to lunch and just be humble and admit I don't

[01:19:08] really know what the heck I'm doing and I need some help if that's you do that if you feel like

[01:19:13] you got it dialed and you're going my encouragement is keep on going just don't give up just it is

[01:19:19] worth it and man one day we're gonna get to that point we're gonna look back and

[01:19:23] we're gonna be having a lemonade with our wife and our kids are gonna be grown we're gonna be

[01:19:26] in the seasons where you know Mike and Manny are and hopefully we're saying we didn't do

[01:19:30] everything right we made a lot of mistakes but man we did our best and we love those kids

[01:19:35] fiercely so amen good word thank you guys so much for contributing today and if you're listening to

[01:19:43] this and it's been a blessing to you would you bless us by forwarding this on to another dad

[01:19:49] that you know and say happy father's day to them let him know that you see them

[01:19:54] and that you think this might be a blessing to them we just want to encourage some dads out

[01:19:59] there during this season