150- Frontlines Ministry- Called to Be the Church (with Jack Arnold)

[00:00:08] [SPEAKER_01]: Welcome to Strength for Todays Pastor, conversations with current senior pastors and leaders which

[00:00:14] [SPEAKER_01]: will strengthen and help you in your pastoral ministry.

[00:00:18] [SPEAKER_01]: And now, here's your host, Bill Holdridge of Poiman Ministries.

[00:00:23] [SPEAKER_02]: Welcome to podcast number 150.

[00:00:26] [SPEAKER_02]: So glad to have you with us today.

[00:00:28] [SPEAKER_02]: So here's the deal.

[00:00:29] [SPEAKER_02]: Increasingly, pastors in the United States are sensing this huge cultural downturn with

[00:00:37] [SPEAKER_02]: regard to the gospel of Jesus Christ.

[00:00:39] [SPEAKER_02]: That's not new news.

[00:00:40] [SPEAKER_02]: But also they're sensing the resistance to the truth and relevance of God's Word.

[00:00:46] [SPEAKER_02]: And what this has done is led to an increasing marginalization of Christianity at best and

[00:00:53] [SPEAKER_02]: outright antagonism against the Church.

[00:00:57] [SPEAKER_02]: So today I'm going to be speaking with Pastor Jack Arnold.

[00:01:00] [SPEAKER_02]: He's a friend and a pastor who ministers right in the thick of this ongoing rebellion against

[00:01:07] [SPEAKER_02]: God and the suppression of the truth.

[00:01:09] [SPEAKER_02]: So a little bit of biography concerning Jack so you can know who he is before he speaks.

[00:01:16] [SPEAKER_02]: Jack Pastor's Calvary Chapel Mount Si in North Bend, Washington.

[00:01:20] [SPEAKER_02]: He's married to Janelle.

[00:01:22] [SPEAKER_02]: They married in 2004.

[00:01:23] [SPEAKER_02]: They have four wonderful children.

[00:01:26] [SPEAKER_02]: And he was ordained with Shoreline Calvary Chapel in Morro Bay, California, which is

[00:01:30] [SPEAKER_02]: when I met Jack right around 2008-ish.

[00:01:35] [SPEAKER_02]: Somewhere, no, no, it was before that 2004-ish, something like that.

[00:01:39] [SPEAKER_02]: Anyway, Jack became the senior pastor a couple years after he was ordained in 2010

[00:01:45] [SPEAKER_02]: when his pastor, Tony Holiday, moved on to the UK as a missionary in the London area.

[00:01:51] [SPEAKER_02]: And in 2016, unexpectedly perhaps the Lord called Jack and his family to move to North Bend

[00:02:00] [SPEAKER_02]: where he became the senior pastor of Calvary Chapel North Bend, which is now called Calvary Mount Si.

[00:02:06] [SPEAKER_02]: So Jack, welcome to the program.

[00:02:07] [SPEAKER_02]: Really looking forward to this time together with you and good to see a friend.

[00:02:11] [SPEAKER_02]: Likewise.

[00:02:11] [SPEAKER_00]: Thanks for having me, Bill.

[00:02:13] [SPEAKER_02]: So now you're pastoring in North Bend and it's only about 30 miles south east

[00:02:18] [SPEAKER_02]: of Seattle.

[00:02:19] [SPEAKER_02]: And that part of Washington, of course, is known for its leftist leanings, its politics,

[00:02:25] [SPEAKER_02]: typically not fertile ground for the gospel.

[00:02:28] [SPEAKER_02]: So what's it like there culturally?

[00:02:31] [SPEAKER_02]: What's it like there spiritually for you as a pastor?

[00:02:35] [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, it's been a cultural shock even moving up here in 2016.

[00:02:40] [SPEAKER_00]: And in the past seven years, we've seen even a radical cultural shift happen in this area,

[00:02:46] [SPEAKER_00]: in King County, the Seattle area.

[00:02:48] [SPEAKER_00]: I would say back in 2016 there was a huge cultural shock moving from the central coast of California

[00:02:56] [SPEAKER_00]: to the heart of the Pacific Northwest.

[00:03:01] [SPEAKER_00]: Everything from having figuring out how to do outreaches when people don't talk to each

[00:03:07] [SPEAKER_00]: other for eight months out of the year or come out of their houses to the homeless

[00:03:13] [SPEAKER_00]: and drug population of Seattle.

[00:03:16] [SPEAKER_00]: And most people that come up here or minister in this area recognize that it's one of the

[00:03:22] [SPEAKER_00]: least churched areas per capita in the nation.

[00:03:27] [SPEAKER_00]: And there is a spiritual darkness.

[00:03:30] [SPEAKER_00]: And we've seen that increase drastically over the last seven years, really rearing its

[00:03:39] [SPEAKER_00]: ugly demonic head even during COVID when the Capitol Hill, autonomous zone,

[00:03:46] [SPEAKER_00]: things were happening and the political governmental push of abortion and the LGBT

[00:03:57] [SPEAKER_00]: agenda infiltrating into even kindergarten and schools.

[00:04:02] [SPEAKER_00]: But we find ourselves ministering in a non-Christian culture context where even last week there

[00:04:11] [SPEAKER_00]: was in Bellevue just about 20 minutes from us.

[00:04:14] [SPEAKER_00]: It was a citywide celebration with a 15 foot idol of a Hindu God cadish.

[00:04:22] [SPEAKER_00]: And it was a fun family event where you could learn how to chant and say divination

[00:04:29] [SPEAKER_00]: prayers to a physical idol.

[00:04:32] [SPEAKER_00]: And this is what's celebrated in our area where you have the majority of the tech

[00:04:40] [SPEAKER_00]: industry infiltrating the culture and you have very few gospel preaching,

[00:04:47] [SPEAKER_00]: Bible believing, discipleship making churches shining the light and holding

[00:04:53] [SPEAKER_00]: the ground, let alone taking ground.

[00:04:56] [SPEAKER_00]: So long answer for a short question.

[00:04:59] [SPEAKER_02]: Well, good answer because even though those are the things that are true in North Bend,

[00:05:05] [SPEAKER_02]: your church, the church that the Lord has allowed you to pastor and the work of

[00:05:09] [SPEAKER_02]: the Holy Spirit has been strong in your area, which is part of that hugely

[00:05:14] [SPEAKER_02]: unchurched part of that greater region.

[00:05:18] [SPEAKER_02]: And it just proves that it can be done.

[00:05:22] [SPEAKER_02]: It can be done.

[00:05:23] [SPEAKER_02]: And that's why, as you know, I wanted to speak with you today and have you share

[00:05:28] [SPEAKER_02]: some of your thoughts with us because there are pastors that are discouraged.

[00:05:33] [SPEAKER_02]: They're ministering and living in areas like yours, maybe not quite as extreme,

[00:05:37] [SPEAKER_02]: maybe just as extreme, but they don't know what to do.

[00:05:41] [SPEAKER_02]: I mean, the old models of ministry aren't working anymore.

[00:05:45] [SPEAKER_02]: I mean, the things that you mentioned, making disciples, teaching the word,

[00:05:49] [SPEAKER_02]: focusing on Jesus, that always works.

[00:05:51] [SPEAKER_02]: But the way to view outreach versus in reach and the way you structure your

[00:05:57] [SPEAKER_02]: focus in terms of the church, that's changed.

[00:06:01] [SPEAKER_02]: And you guys have made that change and the church is healthy and wonderful.

[00:06:06] [SPEAKER_02]: So when you were called from Morro Bay and Shoreline Calvary Chapel in

[00:06:11] [SPEAKER_02]: Morro Bay to North Bend, I remember loving to come to Morro Bay just to

[00:06:16] [SPEAKER_02]: hang out with you and your family in the church and teach every once in a

[00:06:20] [SPEAKER_02]: while, teach in the Bible schools, always so refreshing.

[00:06:24] [SPEAKER_02]: And the church had life.

[00:06:25] [SPEAKER_02]: I mean, it was a life-filled loving group of people.

[00:06:30] [SPEAKER_02]: But the church at the time that you assumed the leadership of Calvary

[00:06:34] [SPEAKER_02]: Chapel North Bend, now Calvary Mount Si, had been going through a really

[00:06:38] [SPEAKER_02]: difficult time.

[00:06:40] [SPEAKER_02]: But you heard the Lord's voice and you went anyway.

[00:06:43] [SPEAKER_02]: You went from something that was healthy, something that was strong,

[00:06:49] [SPEAKER_02]: that had a great history.

[00:06:51] [SPEAKER_02]: And you went to something that who knew what was going to go on there.

[00:06:55] [SPEAKER_02]: It was just a step of faith.

[00:06:57] [SPEAKER_02]: So tell us that story.

[00:06:58] [SPEAKER_02]: It's a cool story and I don't know, I'd like to hear it again myself.

[00:07:02] [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, we were super blessed to be able to be involved at Shoreline

[00:07:09] [SPEAKER_00]: Calvary Chapel in Morro Bay.

[00:07:11] [SPEAKER_00]: We attended there in college, went through Calvary Chapel Bible College.

[00:07:15] [SPEAKER_00]: Well, we had an extension campus there.

[00:07:18] [SPEAKER_00]: Came on staff, helped with missions and evangelism, Bible studies,

[00:07:25] [SPEAKER_00]: did a little teaching in the Bible college.

[00:07:27] [SPEAKER_00]: Men's ministry was an assistant pastor there and got to see a huge

[00:07:34] [SPEAKER_00]: amount of college ministry right there out of close to San Luis

[00:07:39] [SPEAKER_00]: Vismo, Cal Poly and Cuesta.

[00:07:42] [SPEAKER_00]: And we were in a lot of ways just in this beautiful paradise and cocoon.

[00:07:50] [SPEAKER_00]: And we were able to walk to the beach most days with our kids and this

[00:07:55] [SPEAKER_00]: beautiful little town, well-established church.

[00:07:58] [SPEAKER_00]: And yet there was always something that we felt was coming next.

[00:08:04] [SPEAKER_00]: And we couldn't even put our finger on it.

[00:08:06] [SPEAKER_00]: And we prayed about going overseas, starting a school,

[00:08:11] [SPEAKER_00]: adopting again just a number of different things when you get that stirring.

[00:08:15] [SPEAKER_00]: And there was also a sense that we also felt like maybe we're not meant to die here.

[00:08:23] [SPEAKER_00]: We're not meant to stay here forever.

[00:08:26] [SPEAKER_00]: And again, it would have been hard to articulate that back in the day.

[00:08:31] [SPEAKER_00]: But I just remember praying through that and

[00:08:34] [SPEAKER_00]: we had a couple that lived down the street from us.

[00:08:37] [SPEAKER_00]: A young couple got married around the same time of us in 2004.

[00:08:42] [SPEAKER_00]: And he was from this area up in the Pacific Northwest and ended up

[00:08:46] [SPEAKER_00]: giving his life to the Lord at our church down in Morro Bay, met his wife.

[00:08:50] [SPEAKER_00]: They got married.

[00:08:50] [SPEAKER_00]: We were friends down the street.

[00:08:53] [SPEAKER_00]: A few years later, they moved back up here.

[00:08:56] [SPEAKER_00]: And then after they moved, I had contacted them and made sure

[00:09:00] [SPEAKER_00]: that they had found a good church and they had mentioned that they are

[00:09:03] [SPEAKER_00]: found are going to this church in Calvary Chapel North Bend.

[00:09:07] [SPEAKER_00]: And then that was kind of the end of it as things go,

[00:09:10] [SPEAKER_00]: you just drift apart and we don't stay in contact.

[00:09:13] [SPEAKER_00]: Maybe it was, I mean, eight, eight, ten years later

[00:09:18] [SPEAKER_00]: among the Calvary Chapel List Server that I'm not very good at checking,

[00:09:22] [SPEAKER_00]: maybe once a month the best.

[00:09:23] [SPEAKER_00]: And I see a prayer request come through for the church

[00:09:26] [SPEAKER_00]: and it detailed out just the hardships that were happening at the church,

[00:09:32] [SPEAKER_00]: the fact that the pastor had had left and actually been arrested

[00:09:37] [SPEAKER_00]: and the church's name was in the paper and it just been gone through the mud.

[00:09:42] [SPEAKER_00]: And this was the second pastor that had left under bad or immoral circumstances,

[00:09:49] [SPEAKER_00]: at least the accusation of it.

[00:09:51] [SPEAKER_00]: And I saw that and I said, oh, I think that's the church

[00:09:55] [SPEAKER_00]: that this couple goes to.

[00:09:57] [SPEAKER_00]: And I had no idea where North Bend was and had spent no time in Washington

[00:10:01] [SPEAKER_00]: or understood the culture up here.

[00:10:04] [SPEAKER_00]: And this set a short prayer and thought about hitting the waves that afternoon.

[00:10:10] [SPEAKER_00]: It wasn't much to it.

[00:10:12] [SPEAKER_00]: And then several months go by, maybe six or more,

[00:10:17] [SPEAKER_00]: and sitting in my office and just the Lord puts on my heart,

[00:10:22] [SPEAKER_00]: hey, pick up the phone and call that church and pray for them.

[00:10:25] [SPEAKER_00]: And that doesn't happen to me a lot.

[00:10:27] [SPEAKER_00]: It sounds very spiritual, but that's a very unique experience for me.

[00:10:30] [SPEAKER_00]: I've never had such a strong sense like that.

[00:10:34] [SPEAKER_00]: And so I Googled the church and ended up picking up the phone

[00:10:39] [SPEAKER_00]: and calling them and talk to the then associate pastor

[00:10:43] [SPEAKER_00]: that was the interim pastor.

[00:10:45] [SPEAKER_00]: He was the youth pastor at the time.

[00:10:48] [SPEAKER_00]: And the Lord was just putting on my heart some very specific things to pray for,

[00:10:55] [SPEAKER_00]: having gone through a transition of our own, which was a healthy transition.

[00:11:00] [SPEAKER_00]: But still there's difficulties just in any handoff.

[00:11:04] [SPEAKER_00]: You know, I knew that there were things that I could pray for them and encourage them in.

[00:11:09] [SPEAKER_00]: And but the Lord was working something in our hearts.

[00:11:12] [SPEAKER_00]: And he said, hey, are you calling to apply

[00:11:15] [SPEAKER_00]: because we've had a hundred candidates and we've narrowed it down to three candidates?

[00:11:19] [SPEAKER_00]: And I said, no, I'm not calling to apply.

[00:11:21] [SPEAKER_00]: I'm just calling to pray for you guys.

[00:11:24] [SPEAKER_00]: And through our prayer and our conversation,

[00:11:26] [SPEAKER_00]: the Lord began to stir some things and again, put some things on my heart

[00:11:30] [SPEAKER_00]: that were very specific things to pray for.

[00:11:34] [SPEAKER_00]: And then at the end of our conversation, he says, you know,

[00:11:37] [SPEAKER_00]: I think the Lord's doing something here.

[00:11:38] [SPEAKER_00]: And I said, yeah, but I don't know what it is.

[00:11:40] [SPEAKER_00]: And I thought maybe I could be with my limited understanding, limited experience,

[00:11:45] [SPEAKER_00]: help them in some way, at least avoid the mistakes that I had made.

[00:11:49] [SPEAKER_00]: And I said, let's let's stay in touch.

[00:11:51] [SPEAKER_00]: And he's like, I'm going to tell the elders you called.

[00:11:53] [SPEAKER_00]: And I said, that's fine.

[00:11:55] [SPEAKER_00]: And he ends up calling back in a couple of days later and said, hey,

[00:11:59] [SPEAKER_00]: I think talk to the elders.

[00:12:01] [SPEAKER_00]: We think we want you to apply.

[00:12:03] [SPEAKER_00]: And I said, oh, I better talk to my wife about this.

[00:12:07] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.

[00:12:09] [SPEAKER_00]: So I had told Janelle about the first conversation, of course,

[00:12:14] [SPEAKER_00]: because of the association with the church and our friends.

[00:12:17] [SPEAKER_00]: And I said, the Lord's really stirring something.

[00:12:20] [SPEAKER_00]: And so we prayed about it and just felt like the Lord said,

[00:12:23] [SPEAKER_00]: take the next step and talk to them and Skype with them and meet them.

[00:12:28] [SPEAKER_00]: And so little by little, they said, hey, we want you to fill out this application.

[00:12:33] [SPEAKER_00]: It was a lengthy application that they had come up with.

[00:12:36] [SPEAKER_00]: And I said, okay, but I'm still, I'll do this,

[00:12:39] [SPEAKER_00]: but I'm going to give you feedback from kind of a standpoint

[00:12:42] [SPEAKER_00]: that I'm not in this, like I don't have a dog in the fight here.

[00:12:46] [SPEAKER_00]: So I'm going to, you know, call it like I see it.

[00:12:50] [SPEAKER_00]: And I'm not necessarily saying that I'm, you know, coming up there to apply for the position

[00:12:55] [SPEAKER_00]: in a clear calling kind of a way.

[00:12:58] [SPEAKER_00]: So I went through these motions and filled out the,

[00:13:02] [SPEAKER_00]: this, I think it was like 26 pages or something.

[00:13:05] [SPEAKER_00]: And some of them were one word answers and ended up Skyping with them.

[00:13:10] [SPEAKER_00]: And right away, the Lord was putting on my heart

[00:13:14] [SPEAKER_00]: some unhealthy issues, even with the questions that they were asking

[00:13:17] [SPEAKER_00]: and the dynamic of the leadership within the elder team.

[00:13:23] [SPEAKER_00]: And kicked off a series of Skype meetings and conversations.

[00:13:28] [SPEAKER_00]: And most of the time, Janelle was involved with them.

[00:13:31] [SPEAKER_00]: And I think every single time I ended the conversation I said to her,

[00:13:35] [SPEAKER_00]: I don't think they're ever going to want to talk to me again.

[00:13:39] [SPEAKER_00]: And I would just, you know, speak plainly but in love,

[00:13:42] [SPEAKER_00]: but just speak to the issues going on in the church

[00:13:44] [SPEAKER_00]: and some of the unhealthy things that I was kind of getting wind of

[00:13:50] [SPEAKER_00]: by either the conversation or the Lord's direction.

[00:13:53] [SPEAKER_00]: Things kept progressing and every time we'd pray about it

[00:13:55] [SPEAKER_00]: and it was take the next step.

[00:13:57] [SPEAKER_00]: And we still didn't feel called away from shoreline.

[00:14:00] [SPEAKER_00]: We loved it there.

[00:14:01] [SPEAKER_00]: A lot of our friends and family of, you know, 14, 15 years were there.

[00:14:07] [SPEAKER_00]: And when we they finally got to the point and said, hey, we,

[00:14:13] [SPEAKER_00]: you know, we want you to be a serious candidate.

[00:14:17] [SPEAKER_00]: I had found out through the grapevine that one of their other

[00:14:20] [SPEAKER_00]: serious candidates was a missionary that we had got to know

[00:14:24] [SPEAKER_00]: just from being in Calvary missionary circles

[00:14:27] [SPEAKER_00]: that was serving overseas and that was hoping to come back

[00:14:30] [SPEAKER_00]: to this area to take on being the pastor.

[00:14:33] [SPEAKER_00]: And I kind of told them, hey,

[00:14:35] [SPEAKER_00]: I know one of your other candidates, he's a great guy.

[00:14:39] [SPEAKER_00]: Let me help you bring him in to be the pastor.

[00:14:42] [SPEAKER_00]: I think it would be a good fit.

[00:14:44] [SPEAKER_00]: And I said, I can, you know, just help facilitate.

[00:14:46] [SPEAKER_00]: I've done some missionary work.

[00:14:48] [SPEAKER_00]: I understand kind of the needs that he would have.

[00:14:50] [SPEAKER_00]: I've been a transitioning senior pastor.

[00:14:52] [SPEAKER_00]: Let me be a help in this.

[00:14:54] [SPEAKER_00]: And if he's the guy, let me, you know,

[00:14:58] [SPEAKER_00]: just be a resource for you.

[00:15:00] [SPEAKER_00]: Anyway, they invited us up and we had gotten free plane tickets

[00:15:05] [SPEAKER_00]: and a free place to stay and all these things

[00:15:07] [SPEAKER_00]: and the Lord just did his thing

[00:15:09] [SPEAKER_00]: and it all worked out to come up here

[00:15:14] [SPEAKER_00]: and sit and meet everyone.

[00:15:17] [SPEAKER_00]: And we actually attended the church

[00:15:19] [SPEAKER_00]: didn't come up to speak.

[00:15:20] [SPEAKER_00]: And it was one of the most awkward

[00:15:24] [SPEAKER_00]: church services I've ever been to.

[00:15:26] [SPEAKER_00]: They began the Sunday morning service

[00:15:28] [SPEAKER_00]: by giving a legal update of the former arrested pastor

[00:15:33] [SPEAKER_00]: as one of the announcements.

[00:15:35] [SPEAKER_00]: And I just remember sitting in my seat

[00:15:38] [SPEAKER_00]: and holding my breath and hoping

[00:15:41] [SPEAKER_00]: that the Lord would not drive any new people away.

[00:15:46] [SPEAKER_00]: It would shrunk down the church to maybe 40 people.

[00:15:49] [SPEAKER_00]: And so this, we knew we were stepping into a lot of hurt,

[00:15:56] [SPEAKER_00]: a lot of confusion, a lot of dysfunction.

[00:16:00] [SPEAKER_00]: The church couldn't find their, the bylaws.

[00:16:03] [SPEAKER_00]: There was nothing governing them.

[00:16:06] [SPEAKER_00]: The church had a lot of dysfunction in elders

[00:16:09] [SPEAKER_00]: that weren't in agreement with one another

[00:16:12] [SPEAKER_00]: let alone the Calvary Chapel theology.

[00:16:16] [SPEAKER_00]: And all of that to say they were in massive debt,

[00:16:20] [SPEAKER_00]: credit card debt and couldn't pay any pastor

[00:16:23] [SPEAKER_00]: that would come up.

[00:16:25] [SPEAKER_00]: And so this whole thing just was a bad idea

[00:16:28] [SPEAKER_00]: from every front and it was just,

[00:16:31] [SPEAKER_00]: you know, when it's like that

[00:16:32] [SPEAKER_00]: and the Lord keeps saying take the next step

[00:16:35] [SPEAKER_00]: that he's just in it moving and we had peace about it.

[00:16:38] [SPEAKER_00]: And so we after coming home,

[00:16:42] [SPEAKER_00]: the Lord had put a verse on my heart

[00:16:44] [SPEAKER_00]: that we were just praying asking the Lord

[00:16:47] [SPEAKER_00]: if this is you please confirm it

[00:16:49] [SPEAKER_00]: and call it clearly to this.

[00:16:51] [SPEAKER_00]: And this was a beautiful blessing.

[00:16:53] [SPEAKER_00]: And I asked something of the Lord

[00:16:55] [SPEAKER_00]: that maybe was a lack of faith

[00:16:57] [SPEAKER_00]: or a little giddy-ness that I said,

[00:17:02] [SPEAKER_00]: Lord would you call me away from Morro Bay shoreline

[00:17:08] [SPEAKER_00]: and call me here?

[00:17:10] [SPEAKER_00]: And would you make that two part clear?

[00:17:14] [SPEAKER_00]: And he, when I was praying that

[00:17:15] [SPEAKER_00]: even on the plane flying back to California,

[00:17:18] [SPEAKER_00]: Lord gave me that verse that when Jesus says about Galilee

[00:17:23] [SPEAKER_00]: the prophet isn't accepted even in his own hometown.

[00:17:26] [SPEAKER_00]: And I thought that was an odd verse

[00:17:28] [SPEAKER_00]: to didn't understand exactly what that meant.

[00:17:30] [SPEAKER_00]: But the next day when we were having a staff meeting

[00:17:33] [SPEAKER_00]: back in California is one of the first things

[00:17:36] [SPEAKER_00]: out of the mouth of my associate pastor

[00:17:39] [SPEAKER_00]: when I was asking him how things were going,

[00:17:41] [SPEAKER_00]: he says, man it actually went smoother

[00:17:43] [SPEAKER_00]: than when you were here.

[00:17:44] [SPEAKER_00]: And you know, having you gone

[00:17:47] [SPEAKER_00]: I think was a good thing for that little bit of time.

[00:17:49] [SPEAKER_00]: And he quoted that verse

[00:17:50] [SPEAKER_00]: and at that moment I just knew

[00:17:53] [SPEAKER_00]: that the Lord was calling us out as shoreline.

[00:17:56] [SPEAKER_00]: And then I prayed after that,

[00:17:59] [SPEAKER_00]: I knew at that point we were supposed to leave shoreline

[00:18:01] [SPEAKER_00]: and I knew that that was true

[00:18:03] [SPEAKER_00]: even if we didn't come up here to North Bend.

[00:18:06] [SPEAKER_00]: And I just really love that

[00:18:08] [SPEAKER_00]: and I knew that the Lord was gonna have something next

[00:18:12] [SPEAKER_00]: and something better for that church

[00:18:15] [SPEAKER_00]: which excited me for the church

[00:18:18] [SPEAKER_00]: that he was gonna bring in,

[00:18:20] [SPEAKER_00]: the Lord was gonna bring in who that church needed

[00:18:25] [SPEAKER_00]: to move to the next stage of growth.

[00:18:30] [SPEAKER_00]: And then I prayed to the Lord,

[00:18:31] [SPEAKER_00]: I said, Lord if this is true

[00:18:33] [SPEAKER_00]: and you are calling us to Washington,

[00:18:37] [SPEAKER_00]: seeing that the elders are not in agreement

[00:18:40] [SPEAKER_00]: and unity about anything,

[00:18:42] [SPEAKER_00]: I pray that if we're supposed to go up there

[00:18:45] [SPEAKER_00]: that they would call this weekend,

[00:18:47] [SPEAKER_00]: it would be unanimous

[00:18:49] [SPEAKER_00]: and it would be kind of first thing in the morning

[00:18:51] [SPEAKER_00]: which I thought would be quite odd

[00:18:54] [SPEAKER_00]: given the arguments and discussion

[00:18:56] [SPEAKER_00]: that had come up between the elders

[00:18:57] [SPEAKER_00]: on candidates and doctrine and all that.

[00:19:01] [SPEAKER_00]: And I had actually told when we were up here

[00:19:04] [SPEAKER_00]: I'd asked one of the current elders

[00:19:05] [SPEAKER_00]: to step down and leave the church

[00:19:07] [SPEAKER_00]: even if we don't come up,

[00:19:09] [SPEAKER_00]: I just said you're not being helpful,

[00:19:12] [SPEAKER_00]: you're being divisive

[00:19:13] [SPEAKER_00]: and you probably need to leave the church.

[00:19:16] [SPEAKER_00]: And so lo and behold as God works,

[00:19:19] [SPEAKER_00]: we got a phone call that Saturday morning

[00:19:21] [SPEAKER_00]: and the first words were,

[00:19:23] [SPEAKER_00]: hey we just made a unanimous decision

[00:19:25] [SPEAKER_00]: and it was a quick decision

[00:19:27] [SPEAKER_00]: and we think the Lord's calling you up here.

[00:19:30] [SPEAKER_00]: And we knew at that point that that was the Lord

[00:19:32] [SPEAKER_00]: and I asked well what about this person

[00:19:35] [SPEAKER_00]: that was in full disagreement?

[00:19:37] [SPEAKER_00]: He said he stepped down and left the church

[00:19:39] [SPEAKER_00]: and I said okay praise the Lord.

[00:19:42] [SPEAKER_00]: And through your advice Bill and Poiman,

[00:19:47] [SPEAKER_00]: we wanted you guys to be involved

[00:19:49] [SPEAKER_00]: and asked them to accept these new bylaws

[00:19:53] [SPEAKER_00]: and have Poiman involved come up do an assessment,

[00:19:56] [SPEAKER_00]: have Poiman involved down there in Morro Bay

[00:19:59] [SPEAKER_00]: and that was one of the best decisions

[00:20:00] [SPEAKER_00]: we ever made for the transition.

[00:20:03] [SPEAKER_00]: Having an outside third party

[00:20:06] [SPEAKER_00]: kind of take inventory of what's there

[00:20:08] [SPEAKER_00]: even before I got there

[00:20:09] [SPEAKER_00]: was just made all of the whole relaunch

[00:20:13] [SPEAKER_00]: that we did within six months

[00:20:15] [SPEAKER_00]: not only was possible

[00:20:16] [SPEAKER_00]: but it was asked for and encouraged

[00:20:20] [SPEAKER_00]: and it was a joyful relaunch.

[00:20:24] [SPEAKER_00]: So that was a huge blessing

[00:20:26] [SPEAKER_00]: and the Lord just made everything work.

[00:20:30] [SPEAKER_00]: You know we didn't have a paycheck here

[00:20:31] [SPEAKER_00]: for close to six months

[00:20:34] [SPEAKER_00]: and every month people would

[00:20:37] [SPEAKER_00]: without us trying to raise support

[00:20:39] [SPEAKER_00]: they'd send us money and the church back home

[00:20:42] [SPEAKER_00]: stepped in and helped shoreline did

[00:20:45] [SPEAKER_00]: and we were never lacking anything

[00:20:48] [SPEAKER_00]: and the Lord just made it possible.

[00:20:52] [SPEAKER_00]: We bought our house sight unseen

[00:20:53] [SPEAKER_00]: and it was the only vacant home

[00:20:55] [SPEAKER_00]: on the market at that time

[00:20:56] [SPEAKER_00]: and it was just every step was a step of faith,

[00:21:01] [SPEAKER_00]: every step was a step of peace

[00:21:03] [SPEAKER_00]: and it was just the Lord getting the glory

[00:21:08] [SPEAKER_00]: in our ignorance and weakness.

[00:21:10] [SPEAKER_02]: Great story, yeah.

[00:21:12] [SPEAKER_02]: It's like a tutorial almost

[00:21:14] [SPEAKER_02]: or at least a great example of

[00:21:17] [SPEAKER_02]: a lot of the processes that go into

[00:21:22] [SPEAKER_02]: in a church sense leaving and cleaving.

[00:21:25] [SPEAKER_02]: I mean it's really

[00:21:27] [SPEAKER_02]: there's a lot to it

[00:21:28] [SPEAKER_02]: and chief among all of the factors

[00:21:33] [SPEAKER_02]: that are highlighted in my mind

[00:21:36] [SPEAKER_02]: from what you just said,

[00:21:38] [SPEAKER_02]: Jack is that we have to hear the voice of the Lord.

[00:21:42] [SPEAKER_02]: We have to hear Him speak.

[00:21:44] [SPEAKER_02]: You know?

[00:21:45] [SPEAKER_00]: That's right.

[00:21:45] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, because if we're just leaving something,

[00:21:49] [SPEAKER_02]: I mean that's fine

[00:21:51] [SPEAKER_02]: if the Lord's directing that

[00:21:52] [SPEAKER_02]: but it's so helpful

[00:21:54] [SPEAKER_02]: if there's something we're going to

[00:21:56] [SPEAKER_02]: at the same time

[00:21:57] [SPEAKER_02]: and that's what got this whole

[00:21:59] [SPEAKER_02]: whole train moving down the track

[00:22:02] [SPEAKER_02]: for you and your family.

[00:22:04] [SPEAKER_02]: Well you mentioned earlier

[00:22:05] [SPEAKER_02]: you talked about the transition.

[00:22:08] [SPEAKER_02]: It had its challenges

[00:22:09] [SPEAKER_02]: because all transitions do have challenges

[00:22:12] [SPEAKER_02]: not talking about the one to North Bend

[00:22:15] [SPEAKER_02]: but the one into Shiverline Calvary Chapel

[00:22:19] [SPEAKER_02]: when you took the reins from Pastor Tony.

[00:22:23] [SPEAKER_02]: It was sudden, I remember that.

[00:22:25] [SPEAKER_02]: It was very sudden

[00:22:26] [SPEAKER_02]: and you had to absorb an awful lot

[00:22:29] [SPEAKER_02]: and learn a lot in a short time

[00:22:32] [SPEAKER_02]: and you know,

[00:22:35] [SPEAKER_02]: you're a student, you're observant

[00:22:36] [SPEAKER_02]: so the Lord taught you

[00:22:37] [SPEAKER_02]: and you were willing to learn.

[00:22:40] [SPEAKER_02]: Tell us about that

[00:22:41] [SPEAKER_02]: but specifically I want you to

[00:22:43] [SPEAKER_02]: help us understand how did that prepare you

[00:22:47] [SPEAKER_02]: for what you'd encounter in North Bend?

[00:22:49] [SPEAKER_02]: You already mentioned helping the board

[00:22:52] [SPEAKER_02]: of the leaders in North Bend

[00:22:54] [SPEAKER_02]: with some of the things they were going through

[00:22:56] [SPEAKER_02]: before you were even asked to be a candidate.

[00:22:59] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, let's go through that.

[00:23:01] [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, so when I was the assistant pastor

[00:23:05] [SPEAKER_00]: down in Morro Bay

[00:23:07] [SPEAKER_00]: we were a very missions minded church

[00:23:13] [SPEAKER_00]: because of Pastor Tony, Tony Holiday

[00:23:16] [SPEAKER_00]: and he just cultivated a great

[00:23:20] [SPEAKER_00]: evangelistic and missional mindset.

[00:23:24] [SPEAKER_00]: We were doing sometimes three different missions trips a year

[00:23:28] [SPEAKER_00]: to different countries, we were doing outreaches

[00:23:31] [SPEAKER_00]: and my wife and I felt like we were here in the States

[00:23:37] [SPEAKER_00]: only to be sent out

[00:23:38] [SPEAKER_00]: and I remember our calling to ministry.

[00:23:41] [SPEAKER_00]: We both prayed, Lord will serve you any place but America

[00:23:46] [SPEAKER_00]: and we felt that calling to ministry

[00:23:49] [SPEAKER_00]: off of when the prisoners of hope,

[00:23:52] [SPEAKER_00]: I think it was back in 2002, were touring

[00:23:56] [SPEAKER_00]: and they came to speak at the campus crusade there at Kalpali

[00:24:02] [SPEAKER_00]: and they were prisoners by the Taliban, Afghanistan

[00:24:05] [SPEAKER_00]: and I remember okay Lord, I'll go to Afghanistan

[00:24:08] [SPEAKER_00]: and then read in voice of the martyrs

[00:24:10] [SPEAKER_00]: and different things like that.

[00:24:11] [SPEAKER_00]: We just had this burden to go overseas

[00:24:13] [SPEAKER_00]: and we were discouraged by what we were seeing

[00:24:18] [SPEAKER_00]: within the modern American church

[00:24:21] [SPEAKER_00]: and we didn't want the worldliness

[00:24:25] [SPEAKER_00]: and the comfortability to affect us

[00:24:32] [SPEAKER_00]: in a way that kept our eyes off the prize.

[00:24:34] [SPEAKER_00]: Now again, this is a young early 20 year old

[00:24:38] [SPEAKER_00]: immature view on life

[00:24:40] [SPEAKER_00]: but we had this passion to go overseas

[00:24:43] [SPEAKER_00]: and so we tried to help build the missions program.

[00:24:48] [SPEAKER_00]: I was the missions pastor, I was involved

[00:24:50] [SPEAKER_00]: with a lot of trips all over the world

[00:24:53] [SPEAKER_00]: and every place we went we fell in love with Kenya

[00:24:57] [SPEAKER_00]: several times beginning in 2004, we got there

[00:25:00] [SPEAKER_00]: and said yep, we'll stay here Lord just confirm it.

[00:25:02] [SPEAKER_00]: We just need that calling

[00:25:03] [SPEAKER_00]: and we always had that sense

[00:25:04] [SPEAKER_00]: that we really needed the calling

[00:25:07] [SPEAKER_00]: because we knew life and ministry would be tough

[00:25:09] [SPEAKER_00]: and so wherever we were supposed to be

[00:25:11] [SPEAKER_00]: we knew that the Lord would have to call

[00:25:14] [SPEAKER_00]: in a very clear way

[00:25:15] [SPEAKER_00]: and so he kept essentially saying no

[00:25:19] [SPEAKER_00]: at least not giving us peace

[00:25:20] [SPEAKER_00]: or not giving us an open door

[00:25:21] [SPEAKER_00]: and we did that in Kenya, we did that in Thailand

[00:25:23] [SPEAKER_00]: we did that in Russia, we did that in Mexico

[00:25:25] [SPEAKER_00]: and all these different places

[00:25:28] [SPEAKER_00]: it was just either a closed door

[00:25:29] [SPEAKER_00]: or a no in lack of peace and lack of confirmation.

[00:25:35] [SPEAKER_00]: So when Pastor Tony asked us to pray

[00:25:39] [SPEAKER_00]: about taking over the church as the senior pastor

[00:25:44] [SPEAKER_00]: my immediate answer was no

[00:25:46] [SPEAKER_00]: I don't wanna do that we're supposed to go overseas

[00:25:49] [SPEAKER_00]: and I didn't yet have the heart to pastor in America

[00:25:56] [SPEAKER_00]: that the Lord needed me to have

[00:25:58] [SPEAKER_00]: and I remember no one knew about that ask

[00:26:02] [SPEAKER_00]: and that prayer it was just him and his wife and mine

[00:26:07] [SPEAKER_00]: and we had a missions night shortly thereafter

[00:26:10] [SPEAKER_00]: where I think three different trips came together

[00:26:13] [SPEAKER_00]: for sharing and prayer and food

[00:26:14] [SPEAKER_00]: and talking about the trips

[00:26:16] [SPEAKER_00]: and I think it was Kenya, China and Russia

[00:26:20] [SPEAKER_00]: different teams and we broke up into groups to pray

[00:26:23] [SPEAKER_00]: and there were people there that supported

[00:26:25] [SPEAKER_00]: the different people that went on the trip

[00:26:27] [SPEAKER_00]: and I'm leading the night and breaking it up into prayer

[00:26:30] [SPEAKER_00]: and I just remember praying in my own heart

[00:26:33] [SPEAKER_00]: I probably should have been praying

[00:26:34] [SPEAKER_00]: for one of the countries

[00:26:35] [SPEAKER_00]: but I just remember praying

[00:26:36] [SPEAKER_00]: and being so having Pastor Tony's request

[00:26:39] [SPEAKER_00]: on my heart so much that I said

[00:26:41] [SPEAKER_00]: Lord you've given us a heart for these different countries

[00:26:45] [SPEAKER_00]: if you want us to stay here

[00:26:47] [SPEAKER_00]: would you please call us in a new way to serve this area?

[00:26:53] [SPEAKER_00]: And then I said amen we ended the night

[00:26:57] [SPEAKER_00]: and some guy came up to me that didn't go to our church

[00:27:00] [SPEAKER_00]: and he said hey you don't know me

[00:27:03] [SPEAKER_00]: and I know this is weird because you're a pastor here

[00:27:05] [SPEAKER_00]: but the Lord give me kind of a word of knowledge

[00:27:08] [SPEAKER_00]: for you while we were praying

[00:27:10] [SPEAKER_00]: and he said that he is gonna use you here

[00:27:13] [SPEAKER_00]: in a new way and he wants you to know that

[00:27:15] [SPEAKER_00]: he is calling you to here

[00:27:19] [SPEAKER_00]: and I just remember the blood just draining from me

[00:27:24] [SPEAKER_00]: and just going man you just read my mail

[00:27:28] [SPEAKER_00]: and all of this was still a secret

[00:27:30] [SPEAKER_00]: so I couldn't even tell him the fullness of what it meant

[00:27:33] [SPEAKER_00]: but I just said you have no idea what that means to me

[00:27:35] [SPEAKER_00]: and I just really appreciate you being obedient to the Lord

[00:27:38] [SPEAKER_00]: and at that moment the Lord changed my heart

[00:27:41] [SPEAKER_00]: and gave me a heart for the church I was already pastoring at

[00:27:45] [SPEAKER_00]: and a heart for our area

[00:27:47] [SPEAKER_00]: and a heart for the American church

[00:27:48] [SPEAKER_00]: and I think I was maybe it was just an immature lack of faith

[00:27:54] [SPEAKER_00]: and lack of hearing the Lord that he needed kind of

[00:27:56] [SPEAKER_00]: that spiritual two by four to knock me upside the head

[00:27:59] [SPEAKER_00]: to really realize to be obedient to the calling

[00:28:03] [SPEAKER_00]: and then I knew anything else would be disobedience

[00:28:06] [SPEAKER_00]: and that clarity man I needed it

[00:28:08] [SPEAKER_00]: for the tough years to come when I questioned

[00:28:11] [SPEAKER_00]: am I really supposed to do this

[00:28:13] [SPEAKER_00]: and am I really equipped to do this

[00:28:15] [SPEAKER_00]: and then it made me confident and apologetic to the church

[00:28:19] [SPEAKER_00]: as they hung in there while I figured out life and ministry

[00:28:23] [SPEAKER_00]: and almost saying like hey sorry

[00:28:26] [SPEAKER_00]: the Lord told me to do this you're stuck with me

[00:28:29] [SPEAKER_00]: but I knew I was supposed to do it

[00:28:31] [SPEAKER_00]: and it kept me from quitting

[00:28:32] [SPEAKER_00]: it kept me from being overly discouraged

[00:28:35] [SPEAKER_00]: and it was I felt a lot like Paul in 2nd Corinthians

[00:28:38] [SPEAKER_00]: when he said hey I'm gonna boast in my weakness

[00:28:42] [SPEAKER_00]: and he is open and honest about the discouragement

[00:28:45] [SPEAKER_00]: that is the despair, the persecution, the abandonment

[00:28:48] [SPEAKER_00]: but he said this is the calling that we have

[00:28:52] [SPEAKER_00]: in these earthen vessels that we have the ministry

[00:28:56] [SPEAKER_00]: of the new covenant and the glory of the message

[00:29:00] [SPEAKER_00]: far surpasses the brokenness and the crackpotness

[00:29:05] [SPEAKER_00]: of our own humanity and this is where ambassadors

[00:29:09] [SPEAKER_00]: of the message and the word of reconciliation

[00:29:11] [SPEAKER_00]: and so this is the God of comfort that even from chapter

[00:29:15] [SPEAKER_00]: one of 2nd Corinthians to chapter four and five

[00:29:18] [SPEAKER_00]: he says yeah no it's been horrible

[00:29:20] [SPEAKER_00]: it's been discouraging it's been all these things

[00:29:23] [SPEAKER_00]: but the weightiness of God's glory

[00:29:25] [SPEAKER_00]: and the beauty of the message of the gospel

[00:29:28] [SPEAKER_00]: that we have is lights in these earthen vessels

[00:29:31] [SPEAKER_00]: far surpasses any difficulties, any shortcomings

[00:29:34] [SPEAKER_00]: and then the weaknesses that we actually are

[00:29:38] [SPEAKER_00]: actually gives more glory to God

[00:29:40] [SPEAKER_00]: and so that just really helped me reframe my ministry

[00:29:43] [SPEAKER_00]: when attacks came or people would say

[00:29:45] [SPEAKER_00]: hey you're not equipped for that

[00:29:47] [SPEAKER_00]: and you're not very good at this

[00:29:48] [SPEAKER_00]: I would say yeah isn't God's grace amazing

[00:29:52] [SPEAKER_00]: that he would even use me

[00:29:54] [SPEAKER_00]: and you know I made tons of mistakes

[00:29:56] [SPEAKER_00]: and I offended tons of people

[00:29:57] [SPEAKER_00]: and I'm sorry if you're listening

[00:29:59] [SPEAKER_00]: and you're one of those

[00:29:59] [SPEAKER_00]: you know and I just tried to hang on

[00:30:02] [SPEAKER_00]: and allow the Lord to equip and to encourage

[00:30:06] [SPEAKER_00]: and to direct as I'm holding on for the ride

[00:30:09] [SPEAKER_00]: so that was kind of that

[00:30:11] [SPEAKER_00]: and it really prepared us for this

[00:30:13] [SPEAKER_00]: and I knew that if the Lord was calling

[00:30:15] [SPEAKER_00]: he would make it happen

[00:30:17] [SPEAKER_00]: and if he's calling then it didn't matter

[00:30:19] [SPEAKER_00]: if we didn't know the area

[00:30:21] [SPEAKER_00]: it didn't matter if we didn't have the money

[00:30:23] [SPEAKER_00]: it didn't matter that we couldn't figure out the logistics

[00:30:26] [SPEAKER_00]: but if he is calling and it's a clear calling

[00:30:29] [SPEAKER_00]: and he's giving you peace and faith to step out

[00:30:33] [SPEAKER_00]: then it's all about him

[00:30:34] [SPEAKER_00]: and it's gonna be a story of God's power

[00:30:38] [SPEAKER_00]: of God's faithfulness

[00:30:40] [SPEAKER_00]: not a story of how good of a program you are

[00:30:43] [SPEAKER_00]: or how good of an administrator you are

[00:30:45] [SPEAKER_00]: or how gifted of a person you are

[00:30:47] [SPEAKER_00]: we do not preach ourselves

[00:30:49] [SPEAKER_00]: but we preach the risen Jesus

[00:30:54] [SPEAKER_00]: and that's it he just uses our broken vessels

[00:30:58] [SPEAKER_00]: and our step out in faith

[00:31:00] [SPEAKER_00]: and I just knew that going into this area

[00:31:04] [SPEAKER_00]: that no matter how bad it was

[00:31:06] [SPEAKER_00]: I wasn't defining success as relaunching the church

[00:31:10] [SPEAKER_00]: I wasn't even defining success

[00:31:14] [SPEAKER_00]: as keeping the church alive

[00:31:16] [SPEAKER_00]: I was defining success as being obedient to come up here

[00:31:21] [SPEAKER_00]: and I was ready to make phone calls

[00:31:24] [SPEAKER_00]: just to get a normal construction job or whatever

[00:31:28] [SPEAKER_00]: and there was, I did not have a definition of obedience

[00:31:32] [SPEAKER_00]: meaning that there were gonna be a number of results

[00:31:36] [SPEAKER_00]: or the church was gonna thrive or it would heal

[00:31:38] [SPEAKER_00]: I just said we are doing what the Lord's calling us to

[00:31:41] [SPEAKER_00]: and no matter what happens from here

[00:31:45] [SPEAKER_00]: this is success

[00:31:46] [SPEAKER_00]: and I think that the first transition

[00:31:48] [SPEAKER_00]: radically impacted my outlook on the second

[00:31:53] [SPEAKER_00]: because when I took over from Tony

[00:31:55] [SPEAKER_00]: I could write a book on how to take a church of 600

[00:31:59] [SPEAKER_00]: and preach it down to 100 people

[00:32:01] [SPEAKER_00]: I just had no idea what I was doing

[00:32:04] [SPEAKER_00]: my sermons were jam-packed full Bible college classes

[00:32:08] [SPEAKER_00]: I tried to give in 45 minutes

[00:32:10] [SPEAKER_00]: so the growing, the humility

[00:32:14] [SPEAKER_00]: but the confidence in the calling

[00:32:15] [SPEAKER_00]: and the knowing that success is obedience

[00:32:19] [SPEAKER_00]: not numerical results

[00:32:21] [SPEAKER_00]: and that if he's in it, it's gonna be good

[00:32:23] [SPEAKER_00]: even if it's different than what you think

[00:32:25] [SPEAKER_00]: was life changing for me

[00:32:29] [SPEAKER_02]: transferable concepts right there

[00:32:31] [SPEAKER_02]: I mean that really is the core of all of it, isn't it?

[00:32:35] [SPEAKER_02]: And a lot happened in North Bend

[00:32:38] [SPEAKER_02]: even in the last seven years

[00:32:40] [SPEAKER_02]: and when COVID hit

[00:32:42] [SPEAKER_02]: radical things took place in that community

[00:32:45] [SPEAKER_02]: I know from what you've told me

[00:32:46] [SPEAKER_02]: and a lot of transition, transition in, transition out

[00:32:53] [SPEAKER_02]: That's right

[00:32:54] [SPEAKER_02]: things not so good, things really good

[00:32:58] [SPEAKER_02]: and challenges and victories

[00:33:01] [SPEAKER_02]: and all of those kinds of things

[00:33:03] [SPEAKER_02]: but because you had Christ in you as the hope of glory

[00:33:09] [SPEAKER_02]: that was the whole thing for you

[00:33:11] [SPEAKER_02]: you weren't, you were able to not be as focused

[00:33:15] [SPEAKER_02]: on the results or the externals

[00:33:19] [SPEAKER_02]: as we're tempted to be

[00:33:21] [SPEAKER_02]: all of us as human beings who are pastors

[00:33:25] [SPEAKER_02]: so talk about that season

[00:33:27] [SPEAKER_02]: I know it was a challenging one for you

[00:33:30] [SPEAKER_02]: mentioned the other days we're chatting

[00:33:32] [SPEAKER_02]: that and I don't know the timeframe Jack

[00:33:35] [SPEAKER_02]: but 70 plus families left the area

[00:33:39] [SPEAKER_02]: and thus left the church

[00:33:42] [SPEAKER_02]: but apparently there's a new group

[00:33:45] [SPEAKER_02]: that has come in that has replaced them

[00:33:47] [SPEAKER_02]: and you're baptizing them

[00:33:49] [SPEAKER_02]: and leading them to Christ

[00:33:51] [SPEAKER_02]: and all those kinds of things

[00:33:53] [SPEAKER_02]: so yeah, that's a cool thing

[00:33:55] [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah we've seen a big cultural shift up here

[00:33:59] [SPEAKER_00]: in the last seven years just from us coming

[00:34:02] [SPEAKER_00]: where when we came up here

[00:34:04] [SPEAKER_00]: we were used to doing ministry down there on the coast

[00:34:07] [SPEAKER_00]: and if you wanna do evangelism outside

[00:34:09] [SPEAKER_00]: you don't have to check the weather report

[00:34:11] [SPEAKER_00]: or bundle up

[00:34:12] [SPEAKER_00]: cause everybody's outside always

[00:34:14] [SPEAKER_00]: I mean, we had almost a weekly outreach

[00:34:18] [SPEAKER_00]: where we just set up a coffee table

[00:34:19] [SPEAKER_00]: out there at Morrill Rock

[00:34:21] [SPEAKER_00]: and just said, hey ask me about Jesus

[00:34:23] [SPEAKER_00]: and you could do that all year round

[00:34:25] [SPEAKER_00]: here they have two months of summer and the rest

[00:34:29] [SPEAKER_00]: there's it's rainy, it's cold

[00:34:31] [SPEAKER_00]: it's not an outdoor community

[00:34:35] [SPEAKER_00]: in the sense that there's not one place

[00:34:37] [SPEAKER_00]: people congregate like surf spots

[00:34:39] [SPEAKER_00]: we don't have them all

[00:34:41] [SPEAKER_00]: and so I would say, hey how do we reach this area

[00:34:43] [SPEAKER_00]: but seven years ago they were still

[00:34:45] [SPEAKER_00]: in the very beginning stages

[00:34:48] [SPEAKER_00]: of being a bedroom community

[00:34:50] [SPEAKER_00]: for Redmond, Bellevue, Seattle

[00:34:54] [SPEAKER_00]: and there was a building moratorium

[00:34:57] [SPEAKER_00]: that kept a large amount of development happening here

[00:35:00] [SPEAKER_00]: and so there was just limited houses

[00:35:03] [SPEAKER_00]: since then the moratorium had been lifted

[00:35:06] [SPEAKER_00]: and we had this huge influx of building

[00:35:10] [SPEAKER_00]: I think one year it expanded

[00:35:14] [SPEAKER_00]: even though the borders of the town are small

[00:35:17] [SPEAKER_00]: we had a 30% housing increase

[00:35:21] [SPEAKER_00]: in new homes being built

[00:35:23] [SPEAKER_00]: and then we became the newest bedroom community

[00:35:28] [SPEAKER_00]: out in the mountains for the tech

[00:35:32] [SPEAKER_00]: you know, Microsoft's 60,000 person campus

[00:35:36] [SPEAKER_00]: or T-Mobile or Amazon

[00:35:38] [SPEAKER_00]: or all the supporting companies

[00:35:41] [SPEAKER_00]: in that whole tech field

[00:35:43] [SPEAKER_00]: and we've seen this massive influx of Seattle

[00:35:48] [SPEAKER_00]: and Bellevue and just the worldliness of that

[00:35:51] [SPEAKER_00]: come into the area

[00:35:52] [SPEAKER_00]: and especially during COVID

[00:35:56] [SPEAKER_00]: where the culture had become increasingly more liberal

[00:36:01] [SPEAKER_00]: where there are so many people

[00:36:03] [SPEAKER_00]: that when we do outreaches or we stop people

[00:36:06] [SPEAKER_00]: they haven't heard the gospel

[00:36:08] [SPEAKER_00]: or they've heard of Jesus

[00:36:09] [SPEAKER_00]: but they haven't heard the real gospel

[00:36:11] [SPEAKER_00]: and it's so unchurched in this area

[00:36:15] [SPEAKER_00]: to find a church that's actually preaching the gospel

[00:36:18] [SPEAKER_00]: or teaching the word

[00:36:19] [SPEAKER_00]: you might be able to find a church that's doing one of those

[00:36:23] [SPEAKER_00]: but not both of those

[00:36:24] [SPEAKER_00]: and then the next question of discipleship comes into play

[00:36:28] [SPEAKER_00]: and as a third component that is often neglected

[00:36:31] [SPEAKER_00]: so the culture is not a Christian culture

[00:36:35] [SPEAKER_00]: and in the midst of COVID

[00:36:38] [SPEAKER_00]: this area up in the mountains

[00:36:40] [SPEAKER_00]: is where Seattle goes to hike on the weekends

[00:36:42] [SPEAKER_00]: and it was a conservative holdout for years

[00:36:45] [SPEAKER_00]: for the King County Seattle area

[00:36:48] [SPEAKER_00]: and then when COVID hit

[00:36:50] [SPEAKER_00]: there were very few churches

[00:36:52] [SPEAKER_00]: after we all kind of realized

[00:36:55] [SPEAKER_00]: the reality of what was going on

[00:36:58] [SPEAKER_00]: versus what we were being told in the mainstream media

[00:37:03] [SPEAKER_00]: we opened up like a lot of churches did

[00:37:06] [SPEAKER_00]: and we were one of the first churches

[00:37:08] [SPEAKER_00]: in all of King County to open up

[00:37:11] [SPEAKER_00]: we had people coming from Seattle

[00:37:12] [SPEAKER_00]: we had people coming from Tacoma

[00:37:14] [SPEAKER_00]: I mean, we had people driving an hour away

[00:37:17] [SPEAKER_00]: hour and a half away

[00:37:19] [SPEAKER_00]: because they heard that we were open

[00:37:21] [SPEAKER_00]: and people would walk in

[00:37:22] [SPEAKER_00]: and not because necessarily they had

[00:37:25] [SPEAKER_00]: a Christian background at all

[00:37:27] [SPEAKER_00]: but we had very book of acts type of moments

[00:37:30] [SPEAKER_00]: where people said, hey

[00:37:31] [SPEAKER_00]: there's something spiritual going on here

[00:37:34] [SPEAKER_00]: I don't know what it is

[00:37:35] [SPEAKER_00]: but I knew I had to get to a church

[00:37:37] [SPEAKER_00]: and you are the only ones open

[00:37:38] [SPEAKER_00]: what must I do to be saved?

[00:37:40] [SPEAKER_00]: I'm like, you know

[00:37:41] [SPEAKER_00]: and in the hallway people saying this

[00:37:43] [SPEAKER_00]: and seeing this spiritually

[00:37:51] [SPEAKER_00]: polarizing culture

[00:37:53] [SPEAKER_00]: where churches will stay closed

[00:37:57] [SPEAKER_00]: and here singing was outlawed

[00:38:01] [SPEAKER_00]: and a number of churches would

[00:38:05] [SPEAKER_00]: not sing or not worship

[00:38:07] [SPEAKER_00]: and not meet for years

[00:38:09] [SPEAKER_00]: they were closed

[00:38:11] [SPEAKER_00]: and we got churches whole worship teams

[00:38:15] [SPEAKER_00]: but we became kind of a launch pad

[00:38:19] [SPEAKER_00]: to for people looking to move out of the area

[00:38:23] [SPEAKER_00]: usually people with kids

[00:38:26] [SPEAKER_00]: because of the whether you know

[00:38:28] [SPEAKER_00]: liberal agenda in the schools

[00:38:30] [SPEAKER_00]: or medical mandates that they were requiring

[00:38:36] [SPEAKER_00]: to put on your kids to play sports

[00:38:39] [SPEAKER_00]: or different things

[00:38:40] [SPEAKER_00]: we became a lily pad, a launch pad

[00:38:43] [SPEAKER_00]: to send people to conservative states

[00:38:45] [SPEAKER_00]: Idaho, you know Arizona, Texas

[00:38:47] [SPEAKER_00]: all those Tennessee

[00:38:49] [SPEAKER_00]: and we had many people coming in

[00:38:53] [SPEAKER_00]: and we had many people going out

[00:38:54] [SPEAKER_00]: and I think we had about 70 families

[00:38:57] [SPEAKER_00]: that went out

[00:38:57] [SPEAKER_00]: and some of those were core families

[00:38:59] [SPEAKER_00]: that were with us

[00:39:00] [SPEAKER_00]: that have been with us for years

[00:39:02] [SPEAKER_00]: and that was difficult

[00:39:04] [SPEAKER_00]: and we were trying to minister

[00:39:05] [SPEAKER_00]: during COVID to people that had just gotten saved

[00:39:10] [SPEAKER_00]: that have never set foot in a church in their life

[00:39:12] [SPEAKER_00]: to somebody that had been going

[00:39:15] [SPEAKER_00]: and raised in a Catholic context

[00:39:17] [SPEAKER_00]: to somebody that had been going

[00:39:18] [SPEAKER_00]: to a hyper charismatic context

[00:39:20] [SPEAKER_00]: and it was this beautiful kind of melting pot

[00:39:23] [SPEAKER_00]: where you'd all align through the teaching of the word

[00:39:27] [SPEAKER_00]: and the preaching of the gospel

[00:39:28] [SPEAKER_00]: and really have some good discussions

[00:39:31] [SPEAKER_00]: and growing pains

[00:39:34] [SPEAKER_00]: figuring out what God was calling us to do

[00:39:37] [SPEAKER_00]: and there was this

[00:39:39] [SPEAKER_00]: I don't know, it felt like an overseas model

[00:39:42] [SPEAKER_00]: of the church

[00:39:43] [SPEAKER_00]: like what mattered in life

[00:39:46] [SPEAKER_00]: people were asking questions about

[00:39:49] [SPEAKER_00]: what are we doing here

[00:39:50] [SPEAKER_00]: and let's wake up

[00:39:51] [SPEAKER_00]: I think even I mentioned second Corinthians

[00:39:54] [SPEAKER_00]: but C.S. Lewis is the weight of glory

[00:39:57] [SPEAKER_00]: a book

[00:39:58] [SPEAKER_00]: that's just a phenomenal book

[00:40:00] [SPEAKER_00]: on really waking us up from the lullaby

[00:40:04] [SPEAKER_00]: of the American dream

[00:40:06] [SPEAKER_00]: that's a nightmare

[00:40:07] [SPEAKER_00]: and the comfort entertainment based Christian culture

[00:40:12] [SPEAKER_00]: that we've allowed ourselves to operate in

[00:40:14] [SPEAKER_00]: that we aren't engaged

[00:40:16] [SPEAKER_00]: in real gospel relationships

[00:40:19] [SPEAKER_00]: with other people in the church

[00:40:20] [SPEAKER_00]: we aren't, you know

[00:40:22] [SPEAKER_00]: can't pivot to a persecuted model

[00:40:24] [SPEAKER_00]: within a week or two

[00:40:26] [SPEAKER_00]: and if we are operating in a biblical church community

[00:40:31] [SPEAKER_00]: it would be easy to pivot into one of those models

[00:40:34] [SPEAKER_00]: and to see the strength of the church manifest

[00:40:38] [SPEAKER_00]: because of relationship

[00:40:40] [SPEAKER_00]: not because we're running an organization

[00:40:42] [SPEAKER_00]: but because we're bonded

[00:40:44] [SPEAKER_00]: because of the importance of the gospel

[00:40:46] [SPEAKER_00]: needing to get out to the world

[00:40:48] [SPEAKER_00]: so huge cultural changes even in seven years

[00:40:53] [SPEAKER_00]: and then figuring out

[00:40:55] [SPEAKER_00]: how to do outreach to the Hindu community

[00:40:59] [SPEAKER_00]: or the Muslim community

[00:41:00] [SPEAKER_00]: or the atheistic anti-Christian community

[00:41:07] [SPEAKER_00]: and as I mentioned

[00:41:09] [SPEAKER_00]: we just had, just in Bellevue last week

[00:41:11] [SPEAKER_00]: they had a huge parade

[00:41:13] [SPEAKER_00]: a city wide parade

[00:41:14] [SPEAKER_00]: for a 15 foot statue of Ganesh

[00:41:18] [SPEAKER_00]: and a real idol

[00:41:19] [SPEAKER_00]: that people were worshiping and celebrating

[00:41:21] [SPEAKER_00]: and it was pitched as a city of Bellevue

[00:41:24] [SPEAKER_00]: family fun chanting

[00:41:26] [SPEAKER_00]: and pagan rituals for everyone

[00:41:29] [SPEAKER_00]: and come get your cotton candy

[00:41:31] [SPEAKER_00]: and go worship the idol

[00:41:32] [SPEAKER_00]: and this is real

[00:41:34] [SPEAKER_00]: you don't think that there's physical things

[00:41:37] [SPEAKER_00]: like that happening

[00:41:38] [SPEAKER_00]: but here we are

[00:41:40] [SPEAKER_00]: and it's been a joy

[00:41:41] [SPEAKER_00]: and I think that

[00:41:44] [SPEAKER_00]: for the people that are here

[00:41:46] [SPEAKER_00]: and the people that are committed

[00:41:47] [SPEAKER_00]: it resurged

[00:41:50] [SPEAKER_00]: rekindled a fire in us

[00:41:53] [SPEAKER_00]: that said

[00:41:54] [SPEAKER_00]: Christians run to the fire

[00:41:57] [SPEAKER_00]: Christians are called as ambassadors of light

[00:42:01] [SPEAKER_00]: into dark places

[00:42:02] [SPEAKER_00]: and to not only hold the line

[00:42:05] [SPEAKER_00]: but to be excited about taking ground

[00:42:08] [SPEAKER_00]: for the Lord and the kingdom of God

[00:42:10] [SPEAKER_00]: in a place that desperately needs him

[00:42:13] [SPEAKER_00]: I think in our flesh

[00:42:15] [SPEAKER_00]: we've all processed like

[00:42:17] [SPEAKER_00]: it'd be much nicer

[00:42:18] [SPEAKER_00]: much easier

[00:42:19] [SPEAKER_00]: much more comfortable

[00:42:20] [SPEAKER_00]: in a more Christian context

[00:42:22] [SPEAKER_00]: in a conservative state

[00:42:24] [SPEAKER_00]: but that's not the reality

[00:42:26] [SPEAKER_00]: of what we're called to as Christians

[00:42:28] [SPEAKER_00]: go into all the world

[00:42:29] [SPEAKER_00]: preach the gospel

[00:42:30] [SPEAKER_00]: go into all the world

[00:42:30] [SPEAKER_00]: make disciples

[00:42:32] [SPEAKER_00]: and there should be at least a prayer

[00:42:35] [SPEAKER_00]: or thought to do that

[00:42:36] [SPEAKER_00]: where one of the greatest needs is

[00:42:38] [SPEAKER_00]: and so there is that sentiment now

[00:42:41] [SPEAKER_00]: at the church that

[00:42:42] [SPEAKER_00]: hey how are we going to be

[00:42:44] [SPEAKER_00]: this impact on a community

[00:42:46] [SPEAKER_00]: how are we going to show them

[00:42:47] [SPEAKER_00]: the love and the truth of Jesus

[00:42:48] [SPEAKER_00]: and excited about

[00:42:51] [SPEAKER_00]: the great need

[00:42:52] [SPEAKER_00]: and the lack of the gospel here

[00:42:55] [SPEAKER_00]: because the Lord's put us here

[00:42:56] [SPEAKER_00]: and equipped us by His Spirit

[00:42:58] [SPEAKER_00]: so there is this linking of arms

[00:43:00] [SPEAKER_00]: and almost brother of arms

[00:43:02] [SPEAKER_00]: in the trenches together

[00:43:03] [SPEAKER_00]: sweetness of deep relationship together

[00:43:06] [SPEAKER_00]: that's more than just

[00:43:08] [SPEAKER_00]: doing church

[00:43:10] [SPEAKER_00]: or running programs or events

[00:43:12] [SPEAKER_00]: it just feels sweet

[00:43:14] [SPEAKER_00]: and rich and deep and real

[00:43:16] [SPEAKER_00]: and humbling

[00:43:18] [SPEAKER_00]: and a great dependency upon the Lord

[00:43:20] [SPEAKER_00]: in the power of the gospel

[00:43:22] [SPEAKER_02]: Jack that is so encouraging to hear

[00:43:25] [SPEAKER_02]: it really is

[00:43:26] [SPEAKER_02]: but unfortunately we don't have any more time

[00:43:29] [SPEAKER_02]: so we've got to end this particular episode

[00:43:32] [SPEAKER_02]: and take it up again

[00:43:33] [SPEAKER_02]: and have episode 151

[00:43:36] [SPEAKER_02]: where we finish this concept

[00:43:38] [SPEAKER_02]: talking about where this is going

[00:43:41] [SPEAKER_02]: being the church

[00:43:42] [SPEAKER_02]: as frontline ministers

[00:43:44] [SPEAKER_02]: and now taking the frontline ministry

[00:43:47] [SPEAKER_02]: directly into the culture

[00:43:48] [SPEAKER_02]: so that's what's next

[00:43:49] [SPEAKER_02]: so looking forward to that

[00:43:51] [SPEAKER_02]: for right now though

[00:43:52] [SPEAKER_02]: I want to give you your two minute drill opportunity

[00:43:55] [SPEAKER_02]: this is your chance to just share whatever is on your heart

[00:43:58] [SPEAKER_02]: for pastors to either encourage them

[00:44:01] [SPEAKER_02]: exhort them

[00:44:02] [SPEAKER_02]: maybe even comfort them

[00:44:03] [SPEAKER_02]: a la 1st Corinthians 14-3

[00:44:06] [SPEAKER_02]: so here you go Jack

[00:44:07] [SPEAKER_02]: ready set

[00:44:09] [SPEAKER_02]: you're on

[00:44:11] [SPEAKER_00]: my two minute encouragement has to do with

[00:44:14] [SPEAKER_00]: appreciating and knowing our calling as Christians

[00:44:17] [SPEAKER_00]: and specifically for those of us in ministry

[00:44:20] [SPEAKER_00]: where our calling first and foremost

[00:44:22] [SPEAKER_00]: has to be as sons and daughters of the living God

[00:44:26] [SPEAKER_00]: and having a peace and an assurance

[00:44:30] [SPEAKER_00]: that we are his

[00:44:31] [SPEAKER_00]: and that he is working in us

[00:44:34] [SPEAKER_00]: a far greater work than we can come up with

[00:44:38] [SPEAKER_00]: there is a general calling

[00:44:40] [SPEAKER_00]: not only on every single believer

[00:44:42] [SPEAKER_00]: but on the fact that we are all called to be ministers

[00:44:46] [SPEAKER_00]: all called into ministry

[00:44:48] [SPEAKER_00]: whether you're in vocational ministry

[00:44:50] [SPEAKER_00]: or your janitor, teacher and engineer

[00:44:52] [SPEAKER_00]: there is a calling on our life

[00:44:54] [SPEAKER_00]: to appreciate that

[00:44:55] [SPEAKER_00]: reframes the way we approach

[00:44:58] [SPEAKER_00]: every relationship, every job

[00:45:00] [SPEAKER_00]: and that we are ambassadors of the gospel

[00:45:04] [SPEAKER_00]: and that we are being sent into our workplaces

[00:45:07] [SPEAKER_00]: our families and our relationships

[00:45:10] [SPEAKER_00]: on top of that a calling into ministry

[00:45:12] [SPEAKER_00]: I have always prayed for a clear calling

[00:45:14] [SPEAKER_00]: so that when times get tough

[00:45:16] [SPEAKER_00]: I know that it's the Lord and not me

[00:45:18] [SPEAKER_00]: that it's his calling

[00:45:20] [SPEAKER_00]: and not my wisdom or skills or circumstances

[00:45:23] [SPEAKER_00]: that have led me into a position

[00:45:26] [SPEAKER_00]: like the apostle Paul

[00:45:27] [SPEAKER_00]: led by the Holy Spirit really begins

[00:45:30] [SPEAKER_00]: most of his letters by

[00:45:32] [SPEAKER_00]: confirming his calling is from the Lord

[00:45:34] [SPEAKER_00]: and whether it's a bond servant or a prisoner

[00:45:37] [SPEAKER_00]: he knows that he is doing what the Lord's called him to

[00:45:39] [SPEAKER_00]: and there's a peace and a confidence

[00:45:42] [SPEAKER_00]: that is mingled with humility

[00:45:44] [SPEAKER_00]: and to see both of those things come together

[00:45:46] [SPEAKER_00]: has been my prayer and goal

[00:45:48] [SPEAKER_00]: that I would be exuding the humility

[00:45:51] [SPEAKER_00]: with boldness and confidence

[00:45:53] [SPEAKER_00]: and I see those two characteristics

[00:45:55] [SPEAKER_00]: come together both in the life

[00:45:57] [SPEAKER_00]: and teachings of Jesus in the gospel

[00:45:59] [SPEAKER_00]: and with the apostles in Acts and the epistles

[00:46:03] [SPEAKER_00]: and that's my prayer

[00:46:04] [SPEAKER_00]: continually moving forward for myself

[00:46:07] [SPEAKER_00]: and each one of you

[00:46:08] [SPEAKER_00]: that we would be confident

[00:46:09] [SPEAKER_00]: in the calling of the Lord Jesus

[00:46:11] [SPEAKER_00]: both general and specific

[00:46:13] [SPEAKER_00]: and we would have boldness of speech

[00:46:16] [SPEAKER_00]: because of the confidence and calling

[00:46:18] [SPEAKER_00]: it would produce a humility

[00:46:20] [SPEAKER_00]: then it would produce a boldness

[00:46:21] [SPEAKER_00]: in each one of us

[00:46:23] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, thanks Pastor Jack

[00:46:25] [SPEAKER_02]: for taking this time to share with us today

[00:46:27] [SPEAKER_02]: I appreciate being able to hang out with you this way

[00:46:29] [SPEAKER_02]: and a lot of food for thought here

[00:46:32] [SPEAKER_02]: if you want to get in touch with Jack

[00:46:34] [SPEAKER_02]: or you have any questions for him

[00:46:35] [SPEAKER_02]: just write to strongerpassersatgmail.com

[00:46:39] [SPEAKER_02]: and we will be sure to forward them promptly

[00:46:42] [SPEAKER_02]: resources from Calvary Mount Si

[00:46:44] [SPEAKER_02]: and Pastor Jack are available

[00:46:45] [SPEAKER_02]: will be in the show notes for this episode

[00:46:47] [SPEAKER_02]: again thanks for joining us

[00:46:49] [SPEAKER_02]: and by way of reminder

[00:46:51] [SPEAKER_02]: Poinman Ministries was formed in 2008

[00:46:53] [SPEAKER_02]: our heart was to

[00:46:55] [SPEAKER_02]: and is to strengthen and revitalize churches

[00:46:58] [SPEAKER_02]: by helping encouraging the senior pastors

[00:47:00] [SPEAKER_02]: of those churches

[00:47:01] [SPEAKER_02]: please feel free to reach out to us

[00:47:04] [SPEAKER_02]: if we can be of help to you in any way

[00:47:07] [SPEAKER_02]: and the announcer will give you details

[00:47:09] [SPEAKER_02]: on how to connect with us

[00:47:11] [SPEAKER_02]: God bless you

[00:47:13] [SPEAKER_02]: and may he strengthen you

[00:47:14] [SPEAKER_02]: in his service

[00:47:16] [SPEAKER_02]: in Jesus name

[00:47:18] [SPEAKER_01]: Strength for today's pastor

[00:47:19] [SPEAKER_01]: is sponsored by Poinman Ministries

[00:47:22] [SPEAKER_01]: You can find us at

[00:47:23] [SPEAKER_01]: Poinman Ministries.com

[00:47:25] [SPEAKER_01]: that's spelled P-O-I-M-E-N

[00:47:27] [SPEAKER_01]: ministries.com

[00:47:29] [SPEAKER_01]: If something in today's program prompts a question

[00:47:32] [SPEAKER_01]: or comment or if you have a topic idea

[00:47:34] [SPEAKER_01]: for a future episode

[00:47:35] [SPEAKER_01]: just shoot us an email

[00:47:36] [SPEAKER_01]: at strongerpassersatgmail.com

[00:47:39] [SPEAKER_01]: that's strongerpassersatgmail.com

[00:47:43] [SPEAKER_01]: May the Lord bless you

[00:47:45] [SPEAKER_01]: as you serve him, his pastors

[00:47:47] [SPEAKER_01]: and his church