Learning from Church History and Being Yourself with David Guzik

[00:00:00] A disorganized sermon may be reflected in the fact that you're not communicating that any one thing is a more important idea in your sermon than any other thing. There's no leading idea that you're really bringing back to your listeners again and again and again. And there's no sense of a beginning, a middle and an end. Now, sometimes it's advantageous to be very clear, almost overly clear

[00:00:30] about that. You know, there's the old adage that at least has some truth to it. Tell them what you're going to tell them right tell them it and then tell them what you told them. But if guys feel too restrained by that, those things should at least be clear to you. And if it's really clear to you, then it'll come through even if you're not obviously marking those points.

[00:00:51] Hey, welcome to the Expositors Collective Podcast episode 319. I'm your host Mike Neglia and this is a really enjoyable in person interview with David Gusik.

[00:01:05] This conversation we speak about his online ministry enduring word and the 150,000 people who subscribe on YouTube and learn the Bible from David.

[00:01:19] We also talk about what this means for like the practical preaching ministry and the way that people can and should be using enduring word.com.

[00:01:28] And then just some stuff about learning from church history and even reflecting on David and I's 20 year history of knowing one another.

[00:01:39] David was involved in the very early days of expositors collective. He was present at many of our first in person training events.

[00:01:49] He's not going to be in Pleasanton, California on May 24th and 25th. But you should we have many of our core team that are going to be leading workshops plus some exciting guests that are coming.

[00:02:06] More details will be released on social media and in our monthly newsletter.

[00:02:11] But if you are able to get to the San Francisco Bay area on May 24th and 25th, our friends at Valley Community Church are hosting us.

[00:02:23] And I'm really excited for our two day training event that's going to be teaching up the front about the nuts and bolts of studying a passage inductively organizing it into an outline highlighting how Christ and his gospel comes through every passage.

[00:02:40] And then practical steps towards creating and delivering a sermon as well as coaching and direct feedback afterwards.

[00:02:50] This is something that you and people on your team are going to benefit. So I do hope that you visit our website expositors collective.com and looking to booking options.

[00:03:04] We have discounts that are available for groups. Also, there's sponsorship or scholarship options. I hope that you're able to join us May 24th and 25th in Pleasanton, California.

[00:03:21] And so here's my conversation with David Gusik.

[00:03:30] Hey, welcome to the expositors collective podcast. I'm honored to be seated with the David Gusik in his home office. How are you David?

[00:03:38] I'm doing very well, Mike. You don't have to be honored at all. We're longtime friends. There's no honor involved.

[00:03:46] So cruising by a Santa Barbara, stopping by your house. I want to talk to you about some exciting developments that enduring word. What's up with enduring word?

[00:03:56] You know what? It's just a great new season for us. We've just added someone really going to be helping me with content creation.

[00:04:06] My good friend, Mike, I've known this guy for close to 45 years. My dearest friend and ministry pastor Lance Ralston from Calvary Chapel Oxnard.

[00:04:16] And initially he's just going to come on very part time, just working with us a day a week. But eventually as he makes his pastoral transition at Calvary Chapel Oxnard, he's going to be providing a lot of content, especially with the church history work with a blog page that we have on our website and then also with leadership materials too.

[00:04:40] And then beyond that, I tell you Mike, I gotta say my ma is God just keeps expanding the reach of our ministry all the time every year.

[00:04:49] I believe it. I'm looking at a YouTube silver plaque right next to you that says congratulations for passing 100,000 subscribers. But you're telling me that's out of date, right?

[00:04:59] Well, now we're up over 150,000. So praise the Lord. That's great. He's God's giving us a great reach on YouTube. But my guy, I gotta say the reach we have in our website far outstrips that is all right. Yeah, we get remarkable traffic on our website and on our app.

[00:05:17] Okay, I don't have the app. Should I have it? Well, you could the content is the same on the website or the app. So older people like yourself they often like to use the website. But you know those younger folks, they're all into using their phone on the app all the time. Yeah. So

[00:05:35] do you know what I saw a while ago, like somebody put together like an enduring word video about like people on TikTok discovering your commentary and then and then sharing it with their friends. Yeah, that was my son who dug out those things. Yeah, isn't that great? I actually thought those that was really cool. That was really cool for the next generation. It is. So

[00:05:53] I would have said this like in the introduction. But like, yeah, so you're known and treasured by many as like the author behind the enduring word.com Bible commentary, which I've been using. I mean every week for the past 20 years. Wow, that's that's high praise. I think that is a common coming back. Yeah. Wow. So how what is the kind of reach that it's having beyond just me over and over and over again? Okay, we have three main commentary platforms.

[00:06:23] We have the website. Yeah, we have the app and then we have a blue letter Bible. Yes, those three platforms combined in 2023. We had more than 140 million page views between all three of those. Wow. Wow. And I've asked you before but like, is there a predictable spike of when people view it?

[00:06:46] We get our heavy usage on Wednesday and I think Friday. Okay, that's our heavy usage. Yeah. And why do you think that? You know, it's a little hard to say but what have to do with sermon prep is part of it. Maybe the lot of people preparing for midweek studies and such. However, I will say that by no means is our readership or viewership restricted to pastors and Bible teachers. Right.

[00:07:14] There's tons of just everyday believers who use it as well. So yeah. And I you've been on the show before, right? You were involved in the very early stages of expositors collective. I asked you this. I think a couple years ago. Right. But like what's the what's the right way and the wrong way to use

[00:07:30] is enduringward.com or any commentary? How should people use commentaries? Well, let me speak ideally because look, there's always going to be the week when time comes crashing down. You've had family emergencies or ministry emergencies and you rely more on other resources than you should. But ideally, you have a proper time of good Bible exegetical work just you and your Bible. Yeah.

[00:07:57] And you're working through the text yourself. That's ideal to do that first and then only after you've done that, then you spend some time with commentaries whether those be written commentaries audio commentary. A lot of people are listening to things instead of reading them today. But ideally, you just make sure that you spend time with the text first.

[00:08:19] And then you reference other materials and that that's what I try to practice for myself. And I think that that's the best way. Yeah, I was up in San Maria and I was talking to a group of Bible teachers from Ezra 710 which as Ezra said his heart to study the word of God to do it and then to teach us commands and laws in Israel. So there's that study process.

[00:08:43] And you would believe that there's that personal interaction with the God's word be like to study it personally before then drawing on what others have noticed or commented on it.

[00:08:54] Right. To me, that's the most, I don't know, satisfying and fruitful time of my own study. I'm spending time just, you know,

[00:09:04] fellowshiping with God in and through his word, Jesus is meeting me in his word. And I'm understanding it. It's challenging me. It's it's being preached to me first.

[00:09:16] And I'm understanding I'm looking at how this connects with other passages of Scripture. And I just find that time just me and my Bible very rewarding.

[00:09:26] But then obviously, then I'll go and use good Bible resources as well. Yeah. Yeah. And what is the maybe to cram the Ezra 710 passage back into this?

[00:09:38] There's like the study in it. And then there's the doing it. How can how can doing God's word factor into our preparation and study?

[00:09:50] Well, it should give us some appreciation and sympathy for the people of God as we try to tell them to do. Look, I think about it a lot in ministry how I'll stand up week after week or at least that was when I was a pastor over congregation, but a pastoral standup week after week until his people to trust God

[00:10:09] and their difficulties and do all that. And I'm fine with doing that when I have to do it myself in my own like that, that's when it's a real challenge. So we we need to be able to have sympathy and help for the people. But then look, we need it too. I mean, it is a dangerous thing to study God's word primarily just so that you can talk to other people about right.

[00:10:36] That can be a big trap Sunday's coming right have something to say you know my when I was a young pastor. I heard a lot of people tell me about this big division that there is between your devotional time in God's word and your sermon preparation.

[00:10:54] And they made this great big division for it. And I got to say that for me that didn't make a lot of sense because when I studied, it was devotional. But but at the same time, I really understand the point they were trying to make and the point they were trying to make which I think is real important must be applied to every preacher's life is that you can't study its dangerous to study God's word just for what you're going to tell other people.

[00:11:24] The first thing has to be how does this speak to my life? How does this encourage convict, rebuke, guide, challenge me? How does this point me to Jesus and his work for me? And then I have to be able to explain that to others.

[00:11:39] Yeah. Yeah. And then as you explained others so Ezra said is hard to study it to do it and then to teach it. So you've been teaching God's word for more than 45 years right?

[00:11:51] Yeah, more than 45 years. Yeah, probably 46, 47. I started teaching a home Bible study when I was 16 years old. Yeah. So I'm 61 now. What that made 45 years something like that. Something I trust you. I don't know. I trust you in that range.

[00:12:05] What are the sort of things? You know that you've like grown in improved and what are some bad habits you used to do that you've put work into stopping?

[00:12:15] You know, one thing I think is a big change for me or the years is for whatever reason. I think I'm just a more efficient preparer and studier.

[00:12:23] My sermon preparation has just become more efficient. And I think I'm getting the same kind of weight in preparation with maybe a third less time or something like that.

[00:12:36] Because I think I'm just kind of learning how to cut through what's not so helpful or necessary and drill down to things. And that didn't happen over they've been a slow progression over the years.

[00:12:48] I also like, I think I'm a little more just direct and forceful in understanding and applying the text for myself. And then to other people as well.

[00:13:02] I've been actually digitizing a bunch of old tapes that I have. Some of them from the earliest tape with a date on it that I've been able to find was from December 1983.

[00:13:16] And I listened to my preaching then and of course, I'm horrified. It's so long before but I listen and I felt man, that David you're so soft.

[00:13:29] I don't know. It's almost like you're trying to be liked or you're trying not to come off too strong. And of course, it's not good to come off too strong.

[00:13:37] But I think that my understanding of what too strong was was to it just feels weird.

[00:13:43] So I think I but I will say this Mike is that I think it takes a long time to find your voice in the pulpit to become who you are.

[00:13:56] I think it took me about 10 years. Until I really kind of figured that out and I think that's just been developing since.

[00:14:03] Yeah, well so I've quoted you a lot. You said something to me.

[00:14:08] 20 20 years ago crazy.

[00:14:11] No, 20 years ago was when you came to Germany?

[00:14:15] Yeah, maybe 20 yeah, 20 and a half.

[00:14:17] Oh, yeah, that's right. I was in 2023 still. That's right.

[00:14:20] You said to me and there's you gathered a few guys together. You took us out to ice cream a few times and we talked about preaching.

[00:14:28] Okay, and so thank you for that. And you said to me and us that your first 200 sermons are going to be terrible.

[00:14:34] Yeah. So get them out of the way as soon as possible.

[00:14:37] Yeah. So say yes to as many opportunities as you can use it as an opportunity to serve the Lord, serve those people and then also to develop your own voice and self.

[00:14:46] Yes.

[00:14:47] I've quoted that dozens of times. But now you're telling me it takes 10 years.

[00:14:52] Well, it took 10 years for me.

[00:14:55] So 200 sermons to maybe get better as a preacher and then even you could be a good preacher but not even your authentic self.

[00:15:02] Right. I mean when you begin you're naturally going to imitate people that you admire that you've gained from.

[00:15:10] And some of that's just kind of okay. That's just how it is.

[00:15:15] You shouldn't consciously try to imitate people but there's things you appreciate and again, that's okay but you shouldn't stay there.

[00:15:22] Yeah. You should really find your own voice in who you are on the pulpit.

[00:15:26] Yes.

[00:15:27] And then you were saying in those early tapes you were really sound like you're trying to win the crowd over or get them to like you.

[00:15:35] That's okay. I, this is going back let's say 17, 18 years.

[00:15:40] I found somebody on like this is like proto social media. This is a blog post from somebody and he was writing about ministry stuff

[00:15:48] and then he actually offered if anyone wants to I will critique your sermon just send me a link and then I'll listen and I'll give you feedback.

[00:15:56] Wow.

[00:15:57] Actually Jared Moore.

[00:15:58] Okay.

[00:15:59] And he's still around the ministry today. He actually popped up on Twitter recently and I said I wonder is that the same guy?

[00:16:04] And it was the same guy and it was and I'm going to try to get him on the show. Yeah.

[00:16:07] One of these days but the feedback that I got from him was like you sound like you're trying to convince these people to like you.

[00:16:14] Yeah.

[00:16:15] And you're really trying to just win them over and prove yourself to be likeable and as they were to goodbye a lot less people like me now.

[00:16:23] I'm trying.

[00:16:24] Yeah, but I'll tell you what that is.

[00:16:25] Isn't that just a total natural thing for a young preacher?

[00:16:28] Yeah.

[00:16:29] I mean, you feel a little insecure.

[00:16:31] Yeah.

[00:16:32] There's a lot you're aware of your failings or your weaknesses.

[00:16:35] So yeah, I think it's a natural progression.

[00:16:37] Yes.

[00:16:38] But that's another thing I think I've learned and I see as important preaching is that we really do need to think that God's given us a gift, God's given us a calling.

[00:16:50] Probably though not in every case this is true but we're going to be doing this for decades.

[00:16:55] And we don't have to be in a hurry to be our developed self right away.

[00:17:02] It's okay to give it some time.

[00:17:04] Okay, what does that mean though?

[00:17:06] Does that mean that like someone's listening to this on a Tuesday they're preaching on Sunday and then well David Gusek just told me to relax and not try to be my best self this Sunday.

[00:17:17] What does that mean?

[00:17:18] I'm saying don't give it up just because you preach the terrible sermon.

[00:17:21] Okay.

[00:17:22] Okay.

[00:17:23] So give it your best.

[00:17:25] Yes.

[00:17:26] But then don't give up if it wasn't the best.

[00:17:27] Yeah, how about this?

[00:17:28] Give it your best and give it time.

[00:17:30] Yeah.

[00:17:31] Just keep giving it your best and you'll develop along the way.

[00:17:34] Yeah.

[00:17:35] And Keith Green said give it your best pray that it's blessed and he'll take care of the rest.

[00:17:40] That's right.

[00:17:42] Yeah.

[00:17:43] Okay.

[00:17:44] So that's on the topic of teaching.

[00:17:46] What are the sort of things that you think like younger newer Bible teachers are with all your respect kind of getting wrong these days?

[00:17:54] What are some things that you'd love to see more of in the pulpits of today as a retired regular preacher?

[00:18:03] Well, you're not a pastor anymore.

[00:18:06] Right, I'm not pastor.

[00:18:07] You're not congregations.

[00:18:09] I think that one of the big challenges for a lot of guys in their preaching is just organizing things well.

[00:18:17] Okay.

[00:18:19] I follow a sermon much better if there's just a sense of organization with it.

[00:18:25] And maybe it's kind of a reaction between kind of the classic three points and a thing, but I do think that organization in your preaching is really important.

[00:18:37] There's guys I listen to who look, they say a lot of good things and praise the Lord for that.

[00:18:46] And maybe they bring in a lot of different passages of scripture.

[00:18:50] Praise the Lord for that.

[00:18:51] And God will do a work through that because his word won't return void but they could be so much more effective if they were better organized.

[00:19:01] And I think guys kind of got to think about that.

[00:19:05] And then the other thing too is kind of getting back to what we were talking about before.

[00:19:11] It's good for younger preachers to really orient themselves towards don't like using the phrase so much because it sounds cliché to me, but it's pretty good to find their authentic voice.

[00:19:25] Not trying to imitate other people, but just trying to figure out who God has made them to be in the pulpit and not trying to you know whoever they would fancy as an example is a preacher, a Tim Keller, a John Piper, whoever.

[00:19:44] It's not like God needed two of them and none of you. He made you and I'm sure other folks have things to teach us, but he wants us to develop along the gifts and calling he's given us.

[00:19:57] I'd like to talk about each of those things.

[00:20:00] There was a guest on the show Dr. John Kostler and then a Kostler.

[00:20:04] He was talking about the need for organization. He said the same thing. He said younger new preachers tend to be quite disorganized and they would look at organization as even quenching the spirit, but he points out like the spirit is actually quite organized.

[00:20:19] Like he brings order out of chaos. Like the first thing he does in the Bible is bring order out of chaos.

[00:20:24] Yeah, could you speak to those that are that might feel that organization is unspiritual or that maybe we just need to take people on a journey and as much you know we just say as much good things as possible.

[00:20:37] Like what's the need for organization when someone is objecting to this right now?

[00:20:41] Well, you'll be surprised at how much better your hearers will retain what you've spoken if there is a sense of order and organization to it.

[00:20:54] And again, I think that since God's word has an order and an organization to it.

[00:21:01] If you're faithfully expositing, it's going to reflect some of that order and order organization.

[00:21:08] And in some ways, you just be merciful to your hearers. You're helping them follow along.

[00:21:15] And look, let's face it, if you when you read and understand and break down the passage, if you don't have a sense of how it's organized, then how are you ever going to communicate it?

[00:21:28] You have to have that. It begins with it being organized in your own mind.

[00:21:33] And really, if you don't kind of understand some of that basic organization of the text, you're not equipped to preach it well.

[00:21:41] Okay.

[00:21:42] And what does a disorganized sermon sound like? Because maybe there's people that are disorganized preachers right now, but they don't think that they are or we are.

[00:21:53] That is a well ordered one like you said there's a pushback against the three points sermons.

[00:21:59] But do you think that the solution is three point sermons?

[00:22:02] Okay, I think that yes, I think your a disorganized sermon may be reflected in the fact that you're not communicating that any one thing is a more important idea in your sermon than any other thing.

[00:22:22] And then you're leading idea that you're really bringing back to your listeners again and again and again.

[00:22:29] And there's no sense of a beginning, a middle and an end.

[00:22:33] Now look sometimes it's advantageous to be very clear almost overly clear about that.

[00:22:40] You know, there's the old adage that at least has some truth to it.

[00:22:44] Tell them what you're going to tell them, tell them it and then tell them what you told them.

[00:22:49] If you guys feel too restrained by that, those things should at least be clear to you.

[00:22:54] And if it's really clear to you, then it'll come through even if you're not obviously marking those points in your message.

[00:23:01] Okay. All right. Well, thank you.

[00:23:03] So now moving on to your other thing that you said.

[00:23:05] Number one, younger new preachers need to work on organization.

[00:23:09] And then you said that you want them to be their authentic self, but you caveated that saying that you're not so crazy about that phrase.

[00:23:17] So what's wrong with authentic authentic self just sounds a little shop worn to me.

[00:23:23] Yeah, yeah. But it's being who you really are, not necessarily who you really are,

[00:23:29] who you really are can be pretty lame, but it's who's God called you to be in the gifts and the calling and the personality that he's given you.

[00:23:39] So for me, I think I have a fairly good sense of humor.

[00:23:46] But I don't try to be funny in my sermons.

[00:23:51] Actually just about all the humor that comes to me in preaching comes spontaneously.

[00:23:57] Sure.

[00:23:58] Very rarely do I have a planned joke humorous thing occasionally, but not very often.

[00:24:05] And that's just part of me, but I respect guys who have a better command of humor and the pulpit and all that.

[00:24:13] But I just kind of realized that's not me.

[00:24:15] Right.

[00:24:16] So I'm not going to try to make myself something different.

[00:24:19] I'll try to take the things that I'm better at in preaching and let that lead the way.

[00:24:26] Okay.

[00:24:27] So yeah, in your sermons there's not lots of storytelling.

[00:24:31] No, I'm terrible at that.

[00:24:33] Yeah.

[00:24:34] And I guess yeah, for example, did you try to be a storyteller?

[00:24:38] Then realize it's not you or does it just never even.

[00:24:41] Yeah, I think I did try more.

[00:24:43] But here's the thing.

[00:24:44] I do think of myself as a storyteller in my preaching, but I'm telling the story of the text.

[00:24:49] Absolutely.

[00:24:50] Yeah.

[00:24:51] And to me what I want to communicate in my preaching is that what's in that text is so interesting and so amazing.

[00:24:58] Let's focus on that.

[00:24:59] Absolutely.

[00:25:01] Okay.

[00:25:02] So guys who use great illustrations and examples and things like that stories, man, God bless them.

[00:25:09] Of course there's a wrong way to use them, but let's just assume they're using well using them right.

[00:25:13] Praise the Lord and they should do that.

[00:25:15] But I've just kind of accepted that's not really me in the pulpit.

[00:25:18] So I'm not going to, you know, pine after that.

[00:25:22] I'll just say no, this is kind of who I am and what I'm good at.

[00:25:26] I'm going to focus on that.

[00:25:27] Yes.

[00:25:28] Yeah.

[00:25:29] And I think there's a phrase, I think I've stolen from you where you say like, oh and the camera zooms in.

[00:25:37] Yeah.

[00:25:38] You kind of describe it as let it be a movie in your head.

[00:25:40] Yeah.

[00:25:41] I say that all the time.

[00:25:42] And I say that some of the time from from you.

[00:25:44] But it's a great way that people instantly, oh yeah, I should picture this.

[00:25:49] Yes.

[00:25:50] And the preacher is helping me to see what this passage would look like.

[00:25:54] And it's a great way to use stories, Helen.

[00:25:57] Yeah.

[00:25:58] But not to take people away from the Bible but deeper into it.

[00:26:00] Yes.

[00:26:01] And that is kind of one thing that that's what makes preaching through narrative portions of the Bible.

[00:26:07] To me, oftentimes so enjoyable.

[00:26:10] Now, it's true.

[00:26:12] Uh, and I think I heard Chris Brown say this.

[00:26:16] Okay.

[00:26:17] That every text is a story.

[00:26:18] Yes.

[00:26:19] And I think that's good.

[00:26:20] Did I hear that off your podcast?

[00:26:21] Sure did.

[00:26:22] It was good.

[00:26:23] I remember that.

[00:26:24] That was very good.

[00:26:25] Um, and that's a true principle but yeah.

[00:26:27] But every text is a story but some times the story just is easier.

[00:26:31] It's just obvious it's right.

[00:26:32] Yeah.

[00:26:33] Yeah.

[00:26:34] I think he said, yeah, every story there's a story in the text or behind the text.

[00:26:36] Yes.

[00:26:37] Yeah.

[00:26:38] That Paul writing to the Philippians like that actually is a story.

[00:26:41] Yes.

[00:26:42] There's a story in that and then he wants them to know this.

[00:26:44] A pretty rich story.

[00:26:45] Yeah.

[00:26:46] Of course.

[00:26:47] I picked the easiest one.

[00:26:48] Yeah.

[00:26:49] Yeah.

[00:26:50] One John.

[00:26:51] There's all those things.

[00:26:52] Well, kind of, yeah, maybe as a kind of a last question connecting some of the thoughts from

[00:26:55] the beginning of our conversation with what you've just said.

[00:26:59] So Lance Rawlson is being brought on board and during word to bring more church history

[00:27:06] into your online ministry.

[00:27:08] And I'm surrounded.

[00:27:09] I mean, your office.

[00:27:10] I see Spurgeon and John Wesley.

[00:27:12] I see all these like great preach to the past.

[00:27:16] But I'm also hearing you say it's important for us to be ourselves.

[00:27:18] It's the kind of balance between like an informed view of the preachers that have come

[00:27:22] before us and then being ourselves today.

[00:27:25] Well, we learn from preachers of the past a guy like Spurgeon but God forbid that we

[00:27:34] would deliberately go in there and try to preach like Spurgeon.

[00:27:37] We've heard guys like that.

[00:27:38] I've tried.

[00:27:39] It's just dreadful.

[00:27:42] So we learn we have them of course have an appropriate influence on us.

[00:27:48] But we don't slavishly follow or imitate them.

[00:27:54] And I think it's super helpful for believers just to understand church history.

[00:28:00] I was just studying.

[00:28:02] I just recorded a video in here that'll get out on our YouTube channel eventually from

[00:28:06] Joshua chapter four and it was this whole chapter where they're making memorial.

[00:28:11] And so I was talking about the idea of memorial and remembering and how important it is

[00:28:17] for us to remember the great things and some of the tragic things to remember are passed

[00:28:23] biblically speaking of course.

[00:28:26] But then also what God's done through church history, there's really amazing things for

[00:28:31] us to learn from, to benefit from from the preachers, from the great works, from the

[00:28:36] great failures and problems of the past.

[00:28:40] It's a rich field for us to learn from benefit from and then explain to others.

[00:28:43] Okay.

[00:28:45] Okay.

[00:28:46] We've, it's Persians been mentioned many times.

[00:28:48] Who are some preachers from the past that you wish more people knew about?

[00:28:52] You know a contemporary of Spurgeon's Alexander McLaren.

[00:28:55] Okay.

[00:28:56] He's fairly well known but probably not well known enough.

[00:28:59] Yeah.

[00:29:00] McLaren has great stuff in a lot of his preaching.

[00:29:04] You know, it's a little harder to get through because he was writing in a different language

[00:29:09] and into a different time.

[00:29:12] You know, John Calvin was quite the expositor.

[00:29:14] Okay.

[00:29:15] So many of Calvin's commentaries are basically transcripts, rework transcripts of his

[00:29:19] verse by verse teaching through the Bible.

[00:29:21] So there's helpful stuff to be found in there.

[00:29:24] Yeah.

[00:29:25] That's open for more obscure.

[00:29:27] Yeah.

[00:29:28] Everyone's heard of Calvin.

[00:29:29] Okay.

[00:29:30] How about Adam Clark?

[00:29:32] Okay.

[00:29:33] I read me a lot of Adam Clark.

[00:29:34] I evidently you do.

[00:29:35] Yeah.

[00:29:36] Yeah.

[00:29:37] He features prominently and enduring work.

[00:29:38] There's a lot of what I read in Adam Clark that I find very helpful.

[00:29:43] And I am starting to glean.

[00:29:46] There's some great resources out there to get some of the commentary and preaching from

[00:29:53] the first few centuries of Christianity.

[00:29:55] Okay.

[00:29:56] You know, guys have done great work of compiling work from the early church fathers

[00:30:01] and categorizing.

[00:30:02] Okay.

[00:30:03] Here's what said on Matthew.

[00:30:04] Yeah.

[00:30:05] Here's what said in those resources are very helpful.

[00:30:07] The ancient Christian commentary on the New Testament.

[00:30:10] That's it.

[00:30:11] Yeah.

[00:30:12] Yeah.

[00:30:13] And they'll have like a paragraph.

[00:30:14] Right.

[00:30:15] And which then is great, it's actually I have it on Lagas.

[00:30:19] Yes.

[00:30:20] And it's great because you can kind of double click into it and then see the whole context.

[00:30:24] So that's good.

[00:30:25] What are the last question?

[00:30:26] What's kind of the dangers of too much church history?

[00:30:29] I realize this is a small danger and you are a big fan of church history and you're

[00:30:34] bringing in lengths to highlight more of it.

[00:30:36] But is there danger of church history?

[00:30:38] Well, it is if it's not being used to really explain and bring people into understanding

[00:30:45] of the text of the scriptural text.

[00:30:47] Yeah.

[00:30:48] Okay.

[00:30:49] And then also, you know, people can just kind of live in a dream world of the past and

[00:30:55] not really apply it to the present day.

[00:30:58] Okay.

[00:30:59] We do.

[00:31:01] We do have the temptation of just kind of living in this fantasy world at the past and

[00:31:07] wishing things were a different way instead of saying, okay, God's put me right here

[00:31:12] right now.

[00:31:13] I can learn some great things in the past, but what does God want to do today?

[00:31:16] Yeah.

[00:31:17] Okay.

[00:31:18] Great.

[00:31:19] Great way to end this.

[00:31:20] Thank you so much, David.

[00:31:21] Fantastic.

[00:31:22] My thank you so much.

[00:31:23] And for all the listeners of this podcast, I hope that this conversation and all the

[00:31:25] Hollywood expositors collective help you to grow in your personal study and public proclamation

[00:31:30] of God's word.

[00:31:31] Hey, that's a great entaglo.

[00:31:36] All right.

[00:31:39] Well, hey, thanks for listening all the way to the end.

[00:31:41] I hope that you just enjoyed some of the wisdom, the camaraderie, the history that you've

[00:31:48] heard.

[00:31:49] And speaking of church history, there are a lot of episodes that we've done.

[00:31:55] Specifically, about learning from the great preachers of the past.

[00:32:03] And so in the show notes, you can find links to conversations that I've had with Armando

[00:32:08] Garcia about learning from the early church fathers, Ian Clary, about learning from

[00:32:16] the Puritans and then an excellent conversation with Gerald Bray, specifically focusing on one

[00:32:24] man, John Chrysostom and his impact and his influence on expository preaching.

[00:32:32] So we have much to learn from those that have come before us.

[00:32:37] And I hope that you can even scroll back into the history of the expositors collective

[00:32:42] podcast feed to learn more about the history of preachers that have come before us.

[00:32:48] Well, I hope that this conversation, I hope that our training event in May, I hope

[00:32:53] that all the video expositors collective can help you grow in your personal study and

[00:32:58] your public proclamation of God's Word.

[00:33:01] This podcast is a part of CG and Media, a podcast network that points to Christ.

[00:33:05] We are supported by listeners like you to help us create more great shows visit cgmedia.org

[00:33:11] slash support.